I suspect that "settler" was just a different translation of the word "colonist", but they were still considered citizens. Men were normally drafted in the Fall after their 21st birthday, and they typically served 3 or 4 years. Gary Martens > > I have an originalRussian document that I have had transcribed into English. It > belonged to my husband's grandfather, Andreas Nussbaum,who came from > Louis (Otrogovka) Russia to America (first Hays, Kansas and later Hugo, > Colorado) in 1908. It shows he was drafted and entered the service on January > 1 1905 and was discharged to the reserves on December 10 1907.He was > released as a reservist for the duration until the year 1923 and could be recalled > if war broke out. He served in the Drogitin Reserve Infantry Regiment No. 191. > It also shows him as a "settler." It also mentions that "according to > hisresidence permit he is not fit for service." Other interesting information is > included in the 15 page document. > > So if labeled a settler in 1905-1908, one might think he wasn't considered a > citizen of Russia? > > Nancy Nusbaum > > > > From: William Pickelhaupt <[email protected]> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 3:48:31 PM > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be > semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made > in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to conscription. > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > Russia. > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > Christian Clergy 2,470 > Honored Citizens 14,833 > Merchants 11,768 > City Workers 324,471 > Peasants 1,266,102 > Others 128,857 > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > Then we find this statement: > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > Then later we find this statement: > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > the Index. > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > figure it out. > > Gary Martens > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > "subject'. > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > Sally > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > ======= > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

My family is Volga-German. A number of years ago, one of my Volga-German, Canadian-born cousins wanted to visit Russia. At that time this person was told that she, a descendant of Volga-Germans was considered a Russian citizen, and as such may not be allowed to leave Russia once she entered because her ancestor did not have proper permission to leave. Cathy Hawinkels Volmer VC -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths I suspect that "settler" was just a different translation of the word "colonist", but they were still considered citizens. Men were normally drafted in the Fall after their 21st birthday, and they typically served 3 or 4 years. Gary Martens