The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of Russia. Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": Hereditary Nobility 24,854 Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 Christian Clergy 2,470 Honored Citizens 14,833 Merchants 11,768 City Workers 324,471 Peasants 1,266,102 Others 128,857 I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly Peasants and probably some Merchants. Then we find this statement: "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. Then later we find this statement: "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all regions had come together for such a meeting." Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in the Index. I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to figure it out. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG men became subject to conscription. Bill Pickelhaupt --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of Russia. Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": Hereditary Nobility 24,854 Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 Christian Clergy 2,470 Honored Citizens 14,833 Merchants 11,768 City Workers 324,471 Peasants 1,266,102 Others 128,857 I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly Peasants and probably some Merchants. Then we find this statement: "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. Then later we find this statement: "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all regions had come together for such a meeting." Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in the Index. I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to figure it out. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message