Hello Linda; I checked every Volga Village for the Otto and Ott names. I found 15 villages with 26 families. There is no Heinrich Wilhelm listed in 1798. There were only two Wilhelms in all the villages. In Bangert (Bg 3) is George Wilhelm, born 1776 and in Kukkus (Kk 45) there is Konrad Wilhelm, born 1795. Konrad had a brother Johann Andres, born 1784. The Kukkus Ottos are sons of J. Friedrich Otto (b.1755) and grandsons of Paul Otto of Pfalz. Either you have the wrong name or the wrong date for Heinrich Wilhelm. I would be interested in where you found the name you are researching, Heinrich Wilhelm, b. 1785. In my many years of G/R research, I have found many changes in given names. The most common is to drop the christening name (usually the first name) and use only the second name (Johann Konrad becomes Konrad). Sometimes, they will pick a new first name, usually that of a favorite family member (ie. Heinrich Konrad). The women did the same thing with christening name. Maria Katharina would become Katharina after marriage. Sometimes I have found women with four names at christening and later dropping two of them. I think, Maria Elisabeth Pinekenstein may be one of them. She may have had the christening name of Anna Maria, and Elizabeth for her mother, Maria Elizabeth Schäfer. So Anna Maria (b. 1822), daughter of Wilhelm Pinekenstein (b. 1789) could be the Maria Elisabeth you are looking for. All this above data needs to be completely verified with data. If you go further back in time look for 'B'enekenstein. The letters B and P are interchangeable in German (phonetics). I suggest you go back to known family data in your search. You should get the death certificate of Heinrich Wilhelm Otto (b. 1858). It should be available in your Government Vital Records. Also, get Johann Konrad Otto's death certificate. This should show parents and a lot of other information. I accessed the records for Heinrich's older sister, Maria Elizabeth (Otto) Hieber in Fresno, California. She was born Feb. 9, 1847 in Bangert Russia and died a widow in 25 Jun 1927 in Fresno, California. She had been 29 yrs. in the United States (abt. 1898) and 5 years in California. Her parents, as you know, were Johann Konrad Otto & Maria Elisabeth Pinekenstein. This type of data would confirm who you are looking for. At this point, there are 2 key records to confirm your Russian Otto ancestors. The 1775 Bangert census which should show what happened to the original Konrad Otto (b. 1745) and the 1775 Kukkus census which would show the other Wilhelm Otto. Unfortunately, neither record is available at this time. Hopefully, the 1850 and 1857 Bangert records should help you confirm your known records with the Russian data. Feel free to contact me if you have more questions. Sincerely, Jerry Goertzen AHSGR-CCC of Fresno, California , however, we live north of Fresno in a small mountain community named O'Neals. .

Hi Jerry, I did the same for Linda (emailing privately). That is, I used the index to the volumes and looked at villages where Otto or Ott were. And I found no Heinrich Wilhelm Otto either. But my suggestion is that maybe they were somehow missed in the census, or were lost through clerical errors, or some other error. I know from experience that my Zitzer ancestor couple is NOT in the First Settlers List, but they were in Kaneau and then later in Katharinenstadt. And they are in Brent Mai's Transport Lists. They are in the 1776 Katharinenstadt census. So errors happened. (just to be clear, the Schulz Zitzer couple are NOT my ancestors but they ARE in the First Settles Lists) I suggested to Linda that maybe church records, if available, would help. But how to access them is another problem. I see that AHSGR does not do research anymore. Sincerely, Sally Zitzer Edmonds, WA On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, Jerry and Fran Goertzen wrote: > Hello Linda; I checked every Volga Village for the Otto and Ott names. > I found 15 villages with 26 families. There is no Heinrich Wilhelm > listed in 1798. There were only two Wilhelms in all the villages. In > Bangert (Bg 3) is George Wilhelm, born 1776 and in Kukkus (Kk 45) there > is Konrad Wilhelm, born 1795. Konrad had a brother Johann Andres, born > 1784. The Kukkus Ottos are sons of J. Friedrich Otto (b.1755) and > grandsons of Paul Otto of Pfalz. Either you have the wrong name or the > wrong date for Heinrich Wilhelm. I would be interested in where you > found the name you are researching, Heinrich Wilhelm, b. 1785. In my > many years of G/R research, I have found many changes in given names. > The most common is to drop the christening name (usually the first name) > and use only the second name (Johann Konrad becomes Konrad). > Sometimes, they will pick a new first name, usually that of a favorite > family member (ie. Heinrich Konrad). The women did the same thing with > christening name. Maria Katharina would become Katharina after > marriage. Sometimes I have found women with four names at christening > and later dropping two of them. I think, Maria Elisabeth Pinekenstein > may be one of them. She may have had the christening name of Anna > Maria, and Elizabeth for her mother, Maria Elizabeth Schäfer. So Anna > Maria (b. 1822), daughter of Wilhelm Pinekenstein (b. 1789) could be the > Maria Elisabeth you are looking for. All this above data needs to be > completely verified with data. If you go further back in time look for > 'B'enekenstein. The letters B and P are interchangeable in German > (phonetics). I suggest you go back to known family data in your search. > You should get the death certificate of Heinrich Wilhelm Otto (b. 1858). > It should be available in your Government Vital Records. Also, get > Johann Konrad Otto's death certificate. This should show parents and a > lot of other information. I accessed the records for Heinrich's older > sister, Maria Elizabeth (Otto) Hieber in Fresno, California. She was > born Feb. 9, 1847 in Bangert Russia and died a widow in 25 Jun 1927 in > Fresno, California. She had been 29 yrs. in the United States (abt. > 1898) and 5 years in California. Her parents, as you know, were Johann > Konrad Otto & Maria Elisabeth Pinekenstein. This type of data would > confirm who you are looking for. At this point, there are 2 key records > to confirm your Russian Otto ancestors. The 1775 Bangert census which > should show what happened to the original Konrad Otto (b. 1745) and the > 1775 Kukkus census which would show the other Wilhelm Otto. > Unfortunately, neither record is available at this time. Hopefully, the > 1850 and 1857 Bangert records should help you confirm your known records > with the Russian data. Feel free to contact me if you have more > questions. Sincerely, Jerry Goertzen AHSGR-CCC of Fresno, California , > however, we live north of Fresno in a small mountain community named > O'Neals. . > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >