Neil and Vicki,   The Bonwetsch book is available online as a Google book. If you can not find it or download it, let me know and I will email the file to you - it is just less than 5 MB.   Bill Pickelhaupt --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Gary Martens <[email protected]> wrote: From: Gary Martens <[email protected]> Subject: [GV] Fwd: Re: Emigration to Russia and then Emigration to the U.S. or elsewhere To: "GER-VOLGA" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 2:03 AM One additional book: The Volga Germans - in Russia and the Americas. from 1763 to the Present, Fred C. Koch, Copyright 1977, The Pennsylvania State University Press >From Koch's book: >From St. Petersburg, through which all the immigrants had to pass, the contingents were rafted up the 45-mile Neva to Lake Ladoga and thence to the mouth of the Volkov river.  They then coursed southward up this 130-mile stream into Lake Ilmen.  From here most of the parties portaged 200 miles or more to the navigable headwaters of the Volga, down which they then floated and sailed more than 1100 meandering miles to their distant destination:  Saratov. According to Gerhard Bonwetsch (ref 1), none arrived there before the river froze over, so the pioneers to to spend five - to siz-month winters housed with natives in Russian villages along the river.  There were alternate routes, but eventually most of them connected somewhere with the Volga.  Generally a contingent was en route an entire year from the time of enrollment in Germany. Ref 1:  Bonwetsch, Gerhard, Geschichte der deutschen Kolonien an der Wolga.  Stuttgart:  Verlag von J/ Engelhorns Nachf., 1919 =========================================================== There  are certainly going to be books on the history of Germany that will give a much better picture of the conditions in Germany prior to immigration.  I would hope that Tanya and others who have knowledge of the conditions of the peasants in what is now Germany can give more of a history, or point to sources available to us in the US, which detail the conditions in Germany prior to 1763, prompting people to leave for Russia. Gary Martens On 2/26/2011 9:50 PM, NEIL AND VICKI NUSZ wrote: > I have a series of questions that have so far been unanswered that I would > like to pose to everyone. > > I know it took approximately 1 year on average to travel from the German > states to their respective assigned villages in Russia.  In my families case > they left Luebeck in late August 1766 and arrived in Kronstadt, then to > Oranienbaum on Sep 13, 1766, wintered there, left in the Spring of 1767, > traveled by wagon and maybe boat to Saratov, then finally arrived in Messer, > Russia on Sep 14, 1767.  All known dates. > BUT!  My questions. > 1.  In my families case, they gathered in Isenburg(I believe the > Castle Isenburg in the current village of Beudingen) and enlisted  with a > recruiter from Russia? who? and what records are available, either Russian > or German?  I still do not know my ancestral village, however, I have a > family member in Germany researching. > 2.  How did they travel from Isenburg, to Luebeck?  Wagon, carraige, walk, > riverboat? > 3.  How long did it take?  When did they leave Isenburg? > 4.  Did they have permission from some authority?  Who granted the > authorization?  Was there an application?  Church approval?  Any records? > Debts to be paid?  Sale of any land owned? > > On Leaving Russia, in my case to the U.S. - > I know when the left Bremerhaven and when they arrived at New York -  April > 18, 1887. > My Questions. > 1.  How did they get from Dobrinka to Bremerhaven in Germany?  When did they > leave?  How long did the journey take?  . >       Did they use a train from Saratov or go by wagon and or a riverboat. > Was it basically the same route as when thery arrived 120 years earlier? > 2.  Now that they are in New York, how did they get to Kansas (my families > case)  Train?  Any records available? > 3.  How long did this trip take? > > If possible, please help me with sources for this information.  Any specific > books other than Pleve or Kuhlburg Lists, which I already have.  Any help > would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Neil D. Nusz(s) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected]  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message