Hello All, My search for my grandparents, Jacob Hofferber & Katherine Margaret  Wiederspahn b. 10/1879 in Bethany, according to family records, but als o have seen it as Walter,  has l ed me to the caucasus. Grandma said she came from what sounded like Betchahorski. I t might actually be  Beshtaugorsky. My goal for the last 10 years has been to trace my heritage all the way back to the beginning, b/4 my family left for Russia. It was to be a gift to my Momma, the last living sibling of 10. Momma will be 90 in August, I fear my health has hindered me in my search, as well. Is there anyone who can do my fami ly tree for a resonable fee? Or, give me direct addresses where to look? I've purchased some books, find names, but it never leads anywhere. I am not very computer literate, another problem for me. Momma says there are Lesser's, Walter(s) may be my great grandmothers maiden name, &  Rupple's in the family, & only today did she tell me Kindsvatter is a name from her childhood, may not be a relative, she's not certain. I've had  help from a couple of you which I so appreciate.   Susan Hubenthal   "We are, each of us, angels with one wing and we can fly only by embracing one another." ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:14:05 AM Subject: GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 Today's Topics:    1. Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks (hugh lichtenwald)    2. Re: Guidence on researching Kreutzer family in Germany       (Dick Kraus)    3. Re: Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks (Gary Martens)    4. Fw: Re:  Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks (hugh lichtenwald) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 04:55:23 -0800 (PST) From: hugh lichtenwald <[email protected]> Subject: [GV] Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks To: "[email protected] com" <[email protected]> Cc: Ralph Spomer <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- On Thu, 1/20/11, hugh lichtenwald <[email protected]> wrote: From: hugh lichtenwald <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] Spomers and Yorks To: "Ralph Spomer" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 7:38 AM Hallo Ralph and Listers:: ? This is going to be old stuff but here goes: There are no Yorks anywhere on the Volga. York is the American version of Georg and there are a number of Katherines who might match your Katherine "York" Georg. As for Balthasar Spomer, I think your birth year might be off a bit.....I'm not sure because the data I have on the family is not from a primary source. I think the data is probably from you and was sent to Kathy Brehm LaPella. Anyway....if Johannes was born in 1870 his father would have been born around 1850 or earlier and there are a number of Balthasar Spomers who are on the Spomer Charts for that time period who do not have spouses listed. ? All that is not at all helpful and the only way to resolve the problem is to have the Russian Archives do a little research for you. You have John George Spomer's birthdate as Aug. 27, 1881 in Beideck... It would not be too difficult?a task for them to find his parents and siblings. ? Unfortunately, you'd have to find a Russian speaker to phrase the request for you and that is not an easy thing to do these days. Because you have?Johann George Spomer's birthdate and the names of his parents, it would likely cost you about a hundred bucks to find the info on his parentage and siblings. Engels (if you send them a request) will come back with an estimate of what it will cost you and tell you where to send the money (they want the money up front). ? There are a number of Russian Language capable folks on the GR listservice but I would not presume to name them for fear of starting a stampede of people requesting their services. ? If you happen to have any Spomer or Georg acquaintances in Russia, it would be much cheaper to have them order the data from Engels....The Archives charge foreigners twice the fees they do resident Russians. ? Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC VC, Wiesenmueller . ? --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Ralph Spomer <[email protected]> wrote: From: Ralph Spomer <[email protected]> Subject: [GV] (no subject) To: "[email protected] com" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:16 AM Hello everyone I'm looking for my Great Grandmother Katherine York. The Spomer family thought she was from Beideck but there are no listings for her in any census from Beideck. She would have to have been from another colony. She married Balthasar (Walter) Spomer in Alt. Beideck.Walter was born abt. 1857 +or- a few years and we think they both may have died in Neu Beideck. They had three children that we know of. John, married to Sophia Dahmer, Katherine Maria, married Peter Rody, and my Grandfather Johann George, married to Katherine Zubicks. My father Johann George Jr. was 2 yrs old when they came to this country in 1913.I have been looking for my Great Grandparents for about ten years without any luck. Everything stops at my Grand father. If anyone has any information I would really like to hear from you. All and any help would be appreciated. PS. I have copies of two Spomer charts and my Spomers are not on them. Ralph Spomer ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Dick Kraus <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] Guidence on researching Kreutzer family in Germany To: Sheila Derevage <[email protected]>,        Germans from Russia         <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Many thanks for the additional info.? That really helped. Like you I do not find your man in the Kuhlberg Lists, just like my Kraus ancestor. However, I think your man is in the Herzog FSL at #25, listed as Johannes Krenzer single age 18 from R?ding, Bayern.? Bayern in that FSL stands for Kurbayern -- the Grand Duchy of Bavaria.? Kurbener surely is someone's corruption of Kurbayern.? And Rudin surely is a corruption of R?ding.? I think someone simply copied Kurfalz into the list by mistake. I tried to find both R?ding and Rudin.? No luck. In the Map Guides to German Parish Registers to which you were referred yesterday, there were only three places listed in Bavaria for which it seemed possible to me R?ding itself could be a corruption: R?gen -- but unfortunately it was in 1765-67 in the Duchy of Coburg, a completely different country from the then Kurbayern, R?dern - same story -- it was then in the Bishopric of Bamberg, a completely different country from the then Kurbayern, R?densdorf - same story -- it was then in the Margravite of Bayreuth, then a subsidiary of the Kingdom of Prussia -- a thorn in the side of Kurbayern. I fear I have not been of much help.? I will try to think some more, but cannot promise anything.? Dick --- On Wed,  1/19/11, Sheila Derevage <[email protected]> wrote: From: Sheila Derevage <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] Guidence on researching Kreutzer family in Germany To: "Dick Kraus" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 8:40 PM #yiv1218465552 #yiv1218465552yiv1925694313  {height:100%;color:#000000;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial;}Thank you for your help Dick.? This is what I have Johannes Kreutzer b. 1752 in Rudin,Kurfalz, Kurbener, Germany he died 1842 in Rohleder, Russia.? He was married to Eleonora Lauber 1773 in Herzog, Russia. She was born 1756 in Rohleder, Russia.? I looked in the Kuhlberg ship?records but I am not finding a match for this Johannes.? I got this information from Kevin  Rupp.??I have asked several times for a referance but I have never recieved a reply.? Thank you Sheila Kreutzer Derevage ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Kraus <[email protected]> To: German Russian Heritage <[email protected]>, Volga German List <[email protected]>, Sheila Derevage <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 01:23:03 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [GV] Guidence on researching Kreutzer family in Germany Hi Sheila.? It would be helpful to know whether the place reference was given for a time before or after 1800?? Also it might help to know the source of the reference.? The only thing that so far is clear to me is that Kurpfalz was one of the large countries whose territories now lie within the borders of Germany.? It was ruled by one of the Electors of the Empire.? Dick --- On Wed, 1/19/11, Sheila Derevage <[email protected]> wrote: From: Sheila Derevage <[email protected]> Subject: [GV] Guidence on researching Kreutzer family in Germany To: "German Russian Heritage" <[email protected]>, "Volga German List" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 2:26 PM Hi all Hope everyone had great holidays.???Back in the fall of last year I was researching Johannes Kreutzer b.1752 d. 1824 from Rudin, Kurfalz, Kurbener, Germany.? I am unable to find Rudin or KurFalz or Kurbener in Germany.? I would guess the names have changed since then but I am not finding any information of the change.???I am interested in how to research were my family is from in Germany.? I have read that Germany kept great records in the 18th century and earlier.? But you have to know where your family is from.???I love doing the research I just need a place to start.???I would appreciate any ideas.??? Thanks so much Sheila Kreutzer Derevage ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the  word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message        ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:31:43 -0600 From: Gary Martens <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Birth records for Beideck are at the Russian Archives in Volgagrad.  The only birth records available are 1892-1900. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC On 1/20/2011 6:55 AM, hugh lichtenwald wrote: > > --- On Thu, 1/20/11, hugh lichtenwald<[email protected]>  wrote: > > > From: hugh lichtenwald<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] Spomers and Yorks > To: "Ralph Spomer"<[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 7:38 AM > > > > > > > > > Hallo Ralph and Listers:: >   > This is going to be old stuff but here goes: There are no Yorks anywhere on the Volga. York is the American version of Georg and there are a number of Katherines who might match your Katherine "York" Georg. As for Balthasar Spomer, I think your birth year might be off a bit.....I'm not sure because the data I have on the family is not from a primary source. I think the data is probably from you and was sent to Kathy Brehm LaPella. Anyway....if Johannes was born in 1870 his father would have been born around 1850 or earlier and there are a number of Balthasar Spomers who are on the Spomer Charts for that time period who do not have spouses listed. >   > All that is not at all helpful and the only way to resolve the problem is to have the Russian Archives do a little research for you. You have John George Spomer's birthdate as Aug. 27, 1881 in Beideck... It would not be too difficult a task for them to find his parents and siblings. >   > Unfortunately, you'd have to find a Russian speaker to phrase the request for you and that is not an easy thing to do these days. Because you have Johann George Spomer's birthdate and the names of his parents, it would likely cost you about a hundred bucks to find the info on his parentage and siblings. Engels (if you send them a request) will come back with an estimate of what it will cost you and tell you where to send the money (they want the money up front). >   > There are a number of Russian Language capable folks on the GR listservice but I would not presume to name them for fear of starting a stampede of people requesting their services. >   > If you happen to have any Spomer or Georg acquaintances in Russia, it would be much cheaper to have them order the data from Engels....The Archives charge foreigners twice the fees they do resident Russians. >   > Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC > VC, Wiesenmueller > . >   > --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Ralph Spomer<[email protected]>  wrote: > > > From: Ralph Spomer<[email protected]> > Subject: [GV] (no subject) > To: "[email protected] com"<[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:16 AM > > > Hello everyone > I'm looking for my Great Grandmother Katherine York. The Spomer family > thought she was from Beideck but there are no listings for her in any census > from Beideck. She would have to have been from another colony. She married > Balthasar (Walter) Spomer in Alt. Beideck.Walter was born abt. 1857 +or- a > few years and we think they both may have died in Neu Beideck. They had > three children that we know of. John, married to Sophia Dahmer, Katherine > Maria, married Peter Rody, and my Grandfather Johann George, married to > Katherine Zubicks. My father Johann George Jr. was 2 yrs old when they came > to this country in 1913.I have been looking for my Great Grandparents for > about ten years without any luck. Everything stops at my Grand father. If > anyone has any information I would really like to hear from you. > All and any help would be appreciated. > PS. I have copies of two Spomer charts and my Spomers are not on them. > Ralph Spomer > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:08:44 -0800 (PST) From: hugh lichtenwald <[email protected]> Subject: [GV] Fw: Re:  Fw: Re:  Spomers and Yorks To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hallo Gary and Listers: ? The Engels Archive has at a minimum the following: ?Beideck births 1767-1844, 1814-1834 Beideck Marriages 1836-1839 Beideck Deaths 1847-1859 Beideck Births 1842-1861, 1845-1858, 1859, 1879 ? These were in Fond F263 of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Registers which were in need of restoration back in 2002. ? I do not know for certain but I assume they also have a number of "Family Lists," which the government required village councils to keep. ? Yes, Volgograd has Beideck Births from 1892-1900 and the Beideck Census for 1834 and 1857, why they have them and not the rest of the data is a mystery to me. The majority of Beideck inforation is most likely to be found at the Engels Archivel. ? Hugh Lichtenwald VC, Wiesenmueller ? ? ? ? --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Gary Martens <[email protected]> wrote: From: Gary Martens <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] Fw: Re: Spomers and Yorks To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 11:31 AM Birth records for Beideck are at the Russian Archives in Volgagrad.? The only birth records available are 1892-1900. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC On 1/20/2011 6:55 AM, hugh lichtenwald wrote: > > --- On Thu, 1/20/11, hugh lichtenwald<[email protected]>? wrote: > > > From: hugh lichtenwald<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] Spomers and Yorks > To: "Ralph Spomer"<[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 7:38 AM > > > > > > > > > Hallo Ralph and Listers:: >??? > This is going to be old stuff but here goes: There are no Yorks anywhere on the Volga. York is the American version of Georg and there are a number of Katherines who might match your Katherine "York" Georg. As for Balthasar Spomer, I think your birth year might be off a bit.....I'm not sure because the data I have on the family is not from a primary source. I think the data is probably from you and was sent to Kathy Brehm LaPella. Anyway....if Johannes was born in 1870 his father would have been born around 1850 or earlier and there are a number of Balthasar Spomers who are on the Spomer Charts for that time period who do not have spouses listed. >??? > All that is not at all helpful and the only way to resolve the problem is to have the Russian Archives do a little research for you. You have John George Spomer's birthdate as Aug. 27, 1881 in Beideck... It would not be too difficult a task for them to find his parents and siblings. >??? > Unfortunately, you'd have to find a Russian speaker to phrase the request for you and that is not an easy thing to do these days. Because you have Johann George Spomer's birthdate and the names of his parents, it would likely cost you about a hundred bucks to find the info on his parentage and siblings. Engels (if you send them a request) will come back with an estimate of what it will cost you and tell you where to send the money (they want the money up front). >??? > There are a number of Russian Language capable folks on the GR listservice but I would not presume to name them for fear of starting a stampede of people requesting their services. >??? > If you happen to have any Spomer or Georg acquaintances in Russia, it would be much cheaper to have them order the data from Engels....The Archives charge foreigners twice the fees they do resident Russians. >??? > Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC > VC, Wiesenmueller > . >??? > --- On Thu, 1/20/11, Ralph Spomer<[email protected]>? wrote: > > > From: Ralph Spomer<[email protected]> > Subject: [GV] (no subject) > To: "[email protected] com"<[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 12:16 AM > > > Hello everyone > I'm looking for my Great Grandmother Katherine York. The Spomer family > thought she was from Beideck but there are no listings for her in any census > from Beideck. She would have to have been from another colony. She married > Balthasar (Walter) Spomer in Alt. Beideck.Walter was born abt. 1857 +or- a > few years and we think they both may have died in Neu Beideck. They had > three children that we know of. John, married to Sophia Dahmer, Katherine > Maria, married Peter Rody, and my Grandfather Johann George, married to > Katherine Zubicks. My father Johann George Jr. was 2 yrs old when they came > to this country in 1913.I have been looking for my Great Grandparents for > about ten years without any luck. Everything stops at my Grand father. If > anyone has any information I would really like to hear from you. > All and any help would be appreciated. > PS. I have copies of two Spomer charts and my Spomers are not on them. > Ralph Spomer > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the GER-VOLGA list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the GER-VOLGA mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 ****************************************