Hi alls, Ich habe die charts der Familie Meisner aus Grimm. Ich bin bereit diese zu teilen. Ich wünsche mir weitere Angaben zu der Familie Meisner. Besonder aus dem 20. Jahrhundert fehlen mir Angaben. I have the charts of the family Meisner from Grimm. I am this willing to share. I wish for further statements to the family Meisner. I lack statements particular from the 20. century. Sincerely Gerhard Lang

Scottsbluff Star Hearld Scottsbluff, NE 4 Aug 2007 Raymond Eugene Kautz, of Gering died Thursday, Aug. 2, 2007, at 4 a.m. Funeral services will be held at 10 a.m., Tuesday, Aug. 7, at Cen-tral Church of Christ for the opportunity for all who knew him to mourn his passing and celebrate his full and storied life. Interment will be at West Lawn Cemetery. Visitation will be Monday from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. at Gering Memorial Chapel. Tributes of sympathy may be left at www.geringchapel.com. Raymond was born in the Gering Valley June 17, 1933, the eldest of five children, to Jack and Ollie (Wineman) Kautz. The family moved to 1206 Avenue C in Scottsbluff when Ray was still a young boy. One of his favorite boyhood pastimes was playing marbles, which he was able to acquire in abundance from schoolmates and later as his interests changed, used as slingshot ammu-nition for small game hunting. Ray graduated from Scottsbluff High School in the class of 1951. He participated in athletics there and lettered in football, wearing number 73, and playing offensive end. He was employed at the parts counter at Stickney's in Scottsbluff where he encountered the love of his life, Roslyn Ruth Brokken, whom he took for his wife on Nov. 19, 1955. Ray sired and raised six children, inculcating them with the values he held dear, such as hard work, respect for other people and their goods and property, a love of the outdoors, self-sufficiency and a sense of humor. He was one of Johnny Carson's biggest fans. Ray Kautz's primary vocation throughout his income earning years was as an electrician. He worked at Consumers Public Power District as a lineman, a challenging and dangerous occupation and not for the faint of heart, through most of the 1960's. He also had stints working in municipal electric companies in Muscatine, Iowa and in Gering, and with private electrical contractor Ron Martisichewsky. He was also employed for several years at Sturgeon Electric Company out of Denver, a position which was a large sacrifice for him, and he determined to commute, so his children could continue living and being educated in Gering, rather than moving the family to what he perceived to be the more volatile environment of the big city. The crowning achievement and legacy of Raymond's working career has been the founding, establishment and growth of the Gering Garden Center. Very few places in the Nebraska panhandle have produced as much agricultural output on five and a half acres as the location at 850 10th Street in Gering, Neb. Through frugality with the family's resources, tight money management, ingenuity in acquiring and expanding the facilities and infrastructure for plant propagation, and an intuitive understanding of human nature and the market, Ray turned his property into a garden shop that area plant enthusiasts have enjoyed and patronized for many years. Raymond is survived by all six of his children, Michael and his wife Rhonda of Melbeta, Eric and his wife Julie of Gering, Robert and his wife Tracey of Kenai, Alaska, Theodore and his wife Patricia of Anchorage, Alaska, Joseph, the eligible bachelor of Menlo Park, Calif., and Heidi and her husband Shachar Argov of Kanaohe, Hawaii. He is also survived by his younger brother, Larry Kautz and his wife Donna of Mitchell, by his uncle Kenneth Wineman of Gering; by numerous nieces and nephews; cousins; in-laws; nine grandchildren and two step-grandchildren, and, of course, by his loving wife, confidant, business partner, and all-around exceptional lady, Rosie. >From all of us we pray, "May the Lord bless you and keep you, may the Lord lift His countenance and be gracious unto you, May the Lord have mercy upon you and give you peace, amen". Raymond is preceded in death by his parents, brother Grover Kautz, sisters Joan Chatterton and Linda Somr, and granddaughter Jessica Kautz.

Scottsbluff Star Hearld Scottsbluff, NE 4 Aug 2007 TERRYTOWN - Garland E. Green, 68, died Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at his home with his family by his side. Memorial Services will be held at 2 p.m., Monday, Aug. 6, at the Monument Wesleyan Church located at 502 West 14th in Scottsbluff with Pastor Steve Schwartzkopf officiating. Inurnment will follow at the Sunset Memorial Park west of Scottsbluff. There will be no visitation as cremation has taken place at the Jolliffe Funeral Home Crematory. Memorials may be made in care of the family. Condolences may be made by visiting www.jolliffefuneralhome.com and will be forwarded to the family. Jolliffe Funeral Home is assisting the family with arrangements. Garland was born Dec. 23, 1938, to Earl and Pauline (Kramer) Green in Scottsbluff. He married Linda Rojas July 11, 1960 in Scottsbluff. He was a self-employed roofer for a number of years. Garland enjoyed gardening, playing Santa Clause for the nursing homes in the area with his wife as his Elf, he enjoyed decorating his home with lights for various holidays. Garland especially enjoyed his children and grandchildren. He was a member of Monument Wesleyan Church. He is survived by his wife Linda of Terrytown; sons, Donald (Paulette) Green of Chandler, Ariz.; Walter Green of Gering; Earl (Marcela) Green of Allen Texas; daughter, Jolene (Troy) Morris of Gilbert, Ariz.; brothers, Delbert (Arlene) Green of Gering and Calvin (Barbara) Green of Glendale, Ariz.; sisters, Lorraine (Don) Neifert of Napa, Iowa, Melba McNaught of Ontario, Ore., and Patty Wendt of Ogallala; grandchildren, Christopher Gaglardi; Earl Green Jr.; Dakota, Harley and Shelby Morris. Preceding him in death were his parents, brothers Stephen Green and Royal Morehouse, sister Carol Schuck and granddaughter, Jamilla Green.

Hi, While I don't have a bone in this discussion I offer the following from the U.S. Gov. This is from their site at http://www.copyright.gov/title17/ there is also a discussion contained in the U.S. law addressing the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988 for international workcontained in Appendix II ############################################### Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code Circular 92 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter 2 Copyright Ownership and Transfer a.. 201. Ownership of copyright b.. 202. Ownership of copyright as distinct from ownership of material object c.. 203. Termination of transfers and licenses granted by the author d.. 204. Execution of transfers of copyright ownership e.. 205. Recordation of transfers and other documents § 201. Ownership of copyright1 (a) Initial Ownership. - Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are coowner of copyright in the work. (b) Works Made for Hire. - In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright. It appears that bottom line if you contract for the work to be done for you, you are then considered the author unless otherwise stated in the contract. Hope this helps... Don Hoffman ------ ######################################################################################### ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Stricker" <djstricker@comcast.net> To: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 1:56 AM Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > Pleve doesn't "create" the charts. His only motivation to do a chart is > because someone requested it and paid him. In other words he is working as > a > contractor and all correspondence specifies that he is being commisioned > to > do the work. The person hiring him ownes the chart. It's the same > situation > when you hire a contractor to build your house, when he is finished and > you > have paid him you own the house. The owner of the chart then has the > option > of copyright before he sells or distributes it. > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <gpmartens@sbcglobal.net> > To: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:12 AM > Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > > >> >> Dennis: >> >> You weren't the creator of the Pleve chart. Can you tell us under what >> provisions of Internation Copyright Law allow you to put a copyright >> notice >> on a Pleve Chart, and what does the copyright notice say? >> >> Gary Martens >> >> >> >> On 4 Aug 2007 at 0:05, Dennis Stricker wrote: >> >>> I am an antique dealer and I am selling the Lesser charts on eBay >>> because >>> I >>> have a store there. I am one of three owners of the chart and yes we >>> have a >>> copyright notice printed on it. You will find it on the bottom right >>> corner. >>> That copyright has the same meaning as a copyrighted book. It is for >>> your >>> use and enjoyment but can not be copied or reproduced in whole or in >>> part. >>> We understand that the buyer may want to share parts of the data that >>> are >>> pertinent to their family by entering it into a genealogy program and >>> that >>> is OK but to make the assumption that all the data can be recorded into >>> a >>> genealogy program or data base and redistributed I think we would take >>> issue >>> with. >>> Thanks, >>> Dennis Stricker >>> PS >>> Kevin, Glad to hear the chart arrived OK. Didn't get feedback so was >>> wondering. : ) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kevin Rupp" <krupp@ruraltel.net> >>> To: <RedHd4Str8@aol.com>; <janflick@cox.net> >>> Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Janet, >>> > >>> > I have never seen a Pleve Chart that was copyrighted, where does it >>> > say >>> > that? Not to stir up any trouble here but I just bought a Lesner >>> > Pleve >>> > chart off of e-bay for $50.00 and as far as I an concerned I should be >>> > able >>> > to do what ever I wanted to do with it. I understand though if a >>> > person >>> > buys a chart off of someone perhaps if they tell you not to share the >>> > chart >>> > you should respect their wishes, but otherwise whats the difference >>> > buying >>> > it from an individual person, e-bay or AHSGR? I agree also if you buy >>> > a >>> > chart you should not photocopy it and sell it, but once you have >>> > placed >>> > this >>> > information into a data base then then information has been altered >>> > and >>> > should be ok to use. But, the information should be sourced. >>> > >>> > Like I said before, not trying to stir up trouble, but had to voice my >>> > thoughts. >>> > >>> > It's too bad Mary received so many "Hate Mails". Seems like to all >>> > goes >>> > back to the same issue, This is mine and I'm not going to share it >>> > with >>> > any >>> > one. >>> > >>> > Oh, well..... >>> > >>> > Kevin Rupp >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > Kevin Rupp >>> > 2301 Canal Blvd >>> > Hays, Ks. 67601 >>> > krupp@ruraltel.net >>> > www.volgagerman.net >>> > volgagerman@ruraltel.net >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> __________ NOD32 2437 (20070803) Information __________ >>> >>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

AMEN to that! Becky Jamison in Colorado On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) hugh lichtenwald <chief29105@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hallo List: > > After 6 years of not very patient waiting, my surname chart is supposedly >finished. It has been paid for and I am now awaiting delivery. > > The idea of keeping the chart to myself or charging others for the >information contained therein is repugnant to me. The whole idea of searching >for one's roots is to make some sort of contact with our ancestors. > > The copyright laws are supposedly for the protection of "original works" >but are so full of holes that one can circumvent them by making minor changes >to the work you are stealing from...that said, I have always thought that >census data and family charts were never meant to be copyrighted. How in the >world can one copyright names and dates? The answer is that you can't! There >are copyright tags on many census renditions and family charts which are >primarily bogus in nature unless you reproduce the data verbatum. If I >extract a name from a census that someone has translated and put a copyright >on, that name does not fall under the copyright law. The name is just a name >and not the original property of the translator. > > As far as paying for a census translation is concerned, the fact is that >there are those who have been paid to do such translation and have then put a >copyright on their work. So who "owns" the translated census? Is it the >translator or is it the person/persons who employed the translator? Bottom >line is that it doesn't much matter who puts a copyright on a translated >census. The translator cannot claim names and dates as original works under >the copyright law. > > AHSGR and at least one other individual have put copyright tags on censuses >and have them for sale. While I find it moderately irritating that Russian >census compilations have a copyright tag, these censuses are valuable >research tools and I am glad that they are available. The extraction of names >and dates from the censuses is not "protected" by copyright. > > The same goes for family charts. Extraction of names and dates is not a >violation of copyright law. You can jazz up your family chart with commentary >and photographs etc, but the data can be used and incorporated by others >without penalty. > > One needs to ponder whether one is doing family research or whether one is >in the genealogy "business." Are we trying to uncover and preserve our >heritage or are we trying to make a buck? > > Professional GV genealogists are sometimes a necessary evil but eventually >they will become unnecessary and will fade away. The amateur GV genealogical >researchers will eventually compile enough data to put together the entire >village structure of their ancestral villages. That, I think, is the goal >AHSGR. Are we in the business of genealogy or are we in the "Genealogy >Business?" > > Data should be shared, not hoarded, nor sold for profit. > > Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message

As for copyright I have been thought this issue before and with a lawyer. If you publish something be it on the web or in a book, it does not have to have a copyright announcement to still be considered copyrighted. You can go to the government and get it "officially" copyrighted, but it is not necessary (it is advisable). If you don't it is your burden to prove you published it first and that is not always easy. Information like a translated census record or even a Pleve chart gets its information from an original source (Russian Owned Records). Those Russian owned records are the property of the Russian government. If you take a copy of them and translate them into English and spend hours compiling them for a "book", then you own the compilation but not the information itself. In other words someone else can get the original records and translate and compile their own book. It's sort of like taking a picture of the statue of liberty. You frame it and sell it. Someone else stands in the same exact spot and with the same setting on their camera takes the same photo (assuming nothing changes in the photo) and frames it and sells it. You can't do anything about it. It's not your statue. If they use your photo and sell it, then you have a legal claim, but try to prove it. Pleve charts are very interesting in the respect he does not "copyright" them and he is clearly selling them to the buyer with no anticipation of publishing them again. That would lend me to believe he is giving the rights up to the buyer. It is not clear who owns the rights to them, but remember the information on them is the Russian governments and can be reproduced. It is unfortunate others will try to "gain" from your hard work. Hundreds of hours go into some of these projects and everyone should respect that. Believe me after paying hundreds of dollars to get a copy of a census and hundreds of dollars to translate it then hundreds and hundreds of hours of compiling the information, you begin to feel like the information is yours and you sometimes don't want to "let go" of it. With respect to genealogy, the act of sharing is very hard to do for some. People are just after the recognition of the hard work they have done. To see someone else using that hard work and not giving credit to them is very upsetting. Please be kind and respectful to each other. Both directions! If no one shared, what would you have right now? The best way to respect that is to share it and respect others hard work. DB

Having published 10 books with reputable publishers and having had my own work "lifted" on more occasions than once, and not really ever having done a thing about it, or become overly upset, I can say, for a fact, that getting a "Copyright" is not a big deal (I just got another one on another project this week). People have literally taken my material, incorporated it into their own works, after changing a word here or there, put their name on it and not only published it with a Copyright, but an ISBN number. My take on this is; a.) I spend a great deal of time writing my books, researching my books and b.) much of my information has been new and innovative. But, I don't get that upset when people find my published information useful enough to pass on to others. So, with this said, I do have a bit of irritation toward individuals who believe they can Copyright genealogy history related to my family of origin, names, dates and such, and then become upset because I don't want to shell out big bucks for this information because they have gotten a Copyright. I applaud those who creatively reconstruct the stories of our people, and it is appropriate to pay, within reason, those individuals who research lineage. But there are extremes in all areas of life and some of the Pleve Chart behavior does cause need for discussion. I have never charged people to use my information from my books via Xeroxing, etc., and if I have information in my published professional work that will help someone, I have no problem with someone passing it on - word for word, free of charge. Buying an entire book is one thing. Getting a bit of information which is personally useful is another thing. Even in the world of publishing it is correct to lift, word for word, free of charge, a limited word count from a published material, as long as the original researcher, author or creator of the document is listed. My own research into family lineage has at times also come to a halt regarding certain owners of Pleve Charts who want money for information. But, this is their journey, not mine and it forces me to be a bit creative in following other paths. To those of you who have freely shared information, I thank-you from the bottom of my heart. Carla (Wills) Brandon Will, Quisnar, Metzler Jost, Straub, Warenberg Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Hallo List: After 6 years of not very patient waiting, my surname chart is supposedly finished. It has been paid for and I am now awaiting delivery. The idea of keeping the chart to myself or charging others for the information contained therein is repugnant to me. The whole idea of searching for one's roots is to make some sort of contact with our ancestors. The copyright laws are supposedly for the protection of "original works" but are so full of holes that one can circumvent them by making minor changes to the work you are stealing from...that said, I have always thought that census data and family charts were never meant to be copyrighted. How in the world can one copyright names and dates? The answer is that you can't! There are copyright tags on many census renditions and family charts which are primarily bogus in nature unless you reproduce the data verbatum. If I extract a name from a census that someone has translated and put a copyright on, that name does not fall under the copyright law. The name is just a name and not the original property of the translator. As far as paying for a census translation is concerned, the fact is that there are those who have been paid to do such translation and have then put a copyright on their work. So who "owns" the translated census? Is it the translator or is it the person/persons who employed the translator? Bottom line is that it doesn't much matter who puts a copyright on a translated census. The translator cannot claim names and dates as original works under the copyright law. AHSGR and at least one other individual have put copyright tags on censuses and have them for sale. While I find it moderately irritating that Russian census compilations have a copyright tag, these censuses are valuable research tools and I am glad that they are available. The extraction of names and dates from the censuses is not "protected" by copyright. The same goes for family charts. Extraction of names and dates is not a violation of copyright law. You can jazz up your family chart with commentary and photographs etc, but the data can be used and incorporated by others without penalty. One needs to ponder whether one is doing family research or whether one is in the genealogy "business." Are we trying to uncover and preserve our heritage or are we trying to make a buck? Professional GV genealogists are sometimes a necessary evil but eventually they will become unnecessary and will fade away. The amateur GV genealogical researchers will eventually compile enough data to put together the entire village structure of their ancestral villages. That, I think, is the goal AHSGR. Are we in the business of genealogy or are we in the "Genealogy Business?" Data should be shared, not hoarded, nor sold for profit. Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC

Pleve doesn't "create" the charts. His only motivation to do a chart is because someone requested it and paid him. In other words he is working as a contractor and all correspondence specifies that he is being commisioned to do the work. The person hiring him ownes the chart. It's the same situation when you hire a contractor to build your house, when he is finished and you have paid him you own the house. The owner of the chart then has the option of copyright before he sells or distributes it. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: <gpmartens@sbcglobal.net> To: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > > Dennis: > > You weren't the creator of the Pleve chart. Can you tell us under what > provisions of Internation Copyright Law allow you to put a copyright > notice > on a Pleve Chart, and what does the copyright notice say? > > Gary Martens > > > > On 4 Aug 2007 at 0:05, Dennis Stricker wrote: > >> I am an antique dealer and I am selling the Lesser charts on eBay because >> I >> have a store there. I am one of three owners of the chart and yes we >> have a >> copyright notice printed on it. You will find it on the bottom right >> corner. >> That copyright has the same meaning as a copyrighted book. It is for your >> use and enjoyment but can not be copied or reproduced in whole or in >> part. >> We understand that the buyer may want to share parts of the data that are >> pertinent to their family by entering it into a genealogy program and >> that >> is OK but to make the assumption that all the data can be recorded into a >> genealogy program or data base and redistributed I think we would take >> issue >> with. >> Thanks, >> Dennis Stricker >> PS >> Kevin, Glad to hear the chart arrived OK. Didn't get feedback so was >> wondering. : ) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kevin Rupp" <krupp@ruraltel.net> >> To: <RedHd4Str8@aol.com>; <janflick@cox.net> >> Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts >> >> >> > >> > Janet, >> > >> > I have never seen a Pleve Chart that was copyrighted, where does it say >> > that? Not to stir up any trouble here but I just bought a Lesner Pleve >> > chart off of e-bay for $50.00 and as far as I an concerned I should be >> > able >> > to do what ever I wanted to do with it. I understand though if a >> > person >> > buys a chart off of someone perhaps if they tell you not to share the >> > chart >> > you should respect their wishes, but otherwise whats the difference >> > buying >> > it from an individual person, e-bay or AHSGR? I agree also if you buy >> > a >> > chart you should not photocopy it and sell it, but once you have placed >> > this >> > information into a data base then then information has been altered and >> > should be ok to use. But, the information should be sourced. >> > >> > Like I said before, not trying to stir up trouble, but had to voice my >> > thoughts. >> > >> > It's too bad Mary received so many "Hate Mails". Seems like to all >> > goes >> > back to the same issue, This is mine and I'm not going to share it with >> > any >> > one. >> > >> > Oh, well..... >> > >> > Kevin Rupp >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Kevin Rupp >> > 2301 Canal Blvd >> > Hays, Ks. 67601 >> > krupp@ruraltel.net >> > www.volgagerman.net >> > volgagerman@ruraltel.net >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> __________ NOD32 2437 (20070803) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dennis: You weren't the creator of the Pleve chart. Can you tell us under what provisions of Internation Copyright Law allow you to put a copyright notice on a Pleve Chart, and what does the copyright notice say? Gary Martens On 4 Aug 2007 at 0:05, Dennis Stricker wrote: > I am an antique dealer and I am selling the Lesser charts on eBay because I > have a store there. I am one of three owners of the chart and yes we have a > copyright notice printed on it. You will find it on the bottom right corner. > That copyright has the same meaning as a copyrighted book. It is for your > use and enjoyment but can not be copied or reproduced in whole or in part. > We understand that the buyer may want to share parts of the data that are > pertinent to their family by entering it into a genealogy program and that > is OK but to make the assumption that all the data can be recorded into a > genealogy program or data base and redistributed I think we would take issue > with. > Thanks, > Dennis Stricker > PS > Kevin, Glad to hear the chart arrived OK. Didn't get feedback so was > wondering. : ) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Rupp" <krupp@ruraltel.net> > To: <RedHd4Str8@aol.com>; <janflick@cox.net> > Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > > > > > > Janet, > > > > I have never seen a Pleve Chart that was copyrighted, where does it say > > that? Not to stir up any trouble here but I just bought a Lesner Pleve > > chart off of e-bay for $50.00 and as far as I an concerned I should be > > able > > to do what ever I wanted to do with it. I understand though if a person > > buys a chart off of someone perhaps if they tell you not to share the > > chart > > you should respect their wishes, but otherwise whats the difference buying > > it from an individual person, e-bay or AHSGR? I agree also if you buy a > > chart you should not photocopy it and sell it, but once you have placed > > this > > information into a data base then then information has been altered and > > should be ok to use. But, the information should be sourced. > > > > Like I said before, not trying to stir up trouble, but had to voice my > > thoughts. > > > > It's too bad Mary received so many "Hate Mails". Seems like to all goes > > back to the same issue, This is mine and I'm not going to share it with > > any > > one. > > > > Oh, well..... > > > > Kevin Rupp > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Kevin Rupp > > 2301 Canal Blvd > > Hays, Ks. 67601 > > krupp@ruraltel.net > > www.volgagerman.net > > volgagerman@ruraltel.net > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 2437 (20070803) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Some good information on genealogy and copyrights: http://genealogy.about.com/od/writing_family_history/a/copyright.htm Gary Martens

I am an antique dealer and I am selling the Lesser charts on eBay because I have a store there. I am one of three owners of the chart and yes we have a copyright notice printed on it. You will find it on the bottom right corner. That copyright has the same meaning as a copyrighted book. It is for your use and enjoyment but can not be copied or reproduced in whole or in part. We understand that the buyer may want to share parts of the data that are pertinent to their family by entering it into a genealogy program and that is OK but to make the assumption that all the data can be recorded into a genealogy program or data base and redistributed I think we would take issue with. Thanks, Dennis Stricker PS Kevin, Glad to hear the chart arrived OK. Didn't get feedback so was wondering. : ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Rupp" <krupp@ruraltel.net> To: <RedHd4Str8@aol.com>; <janflick@cox.net> Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > > Janet, > > I have never seen a Pleve Chart that was copyrighted, where does it say > that? Not to stir up any trouble here but I just bought a Lesner Pleve > chart off of e-bay for $50.00 and as far as I an concerned I should be > able > to do what ever I wanted to do with it. I understand though if a person > buys a chart off of someone perhaps if they tell you not to share the > chart > you should respect their wishes, but otherwise whats the difference buying > it from an individual person, e-bay or AHSGR? I agree also if you buy a > chart you should not photocopy it and sell it, but once you have placed > this > information into a data base then then information has been altered and > should be ok to use. But, the information should be sourced. > > Like I said before, not trying to stir up trouble, but had to voice my > thoughts. > > It's too bad Mary received so many "Hate Mails". Seems like to all goes > back to the same issue, This is mine and I'm not going to share it with > any > one. > > Oh, well..... > > Kevin Rupp > > > > -- > > Kevin Rupp > 2301 Canal Blvd > Hays, Ks. 67601 > krupp@ruraltel.net > www.volgagerman.net > volgagerman@ruraltel.net >

To this list and others of you who sent me rude hate mail: This is a copy of an earlier email I sent to this list. I have no intention of giving out any info word for word, but from my own personal family passed down and recorded in family bibles and word of g g grandparents etc, family history . I did also a lot of personal paid for research. Just as I did on my dad's family to find out I descend from Royal roots of the same line that Queen Victoria herself come from. and why several have targeted me today is beyond me there are several others also out there that also mentioned they were willing to share any info also. Did you send that email to them as well I paid out personally a lot for money for those three charts and have located what I wanted. Others I guess can do the same. I havent even been active in doing any family research on this side of my family. I have even had a friend who is stationed in Germany try to help me find out more. What I said was I would be willing to share, from three charts however I take that back. I had a lot of help from a lot of really nice people when doing my family research and thought for the first time I would give some back. I have given oodles of my familys obits to your sites and today I have been tarred and feathered in email. as a matter of fact as of now I am removing myself from this list. Mary Smith Just a reminder that unless you paid the $500 or whatever for the Pleve research, you don't have the right to copy and share the charts. (They are copyrighted and you more then likely just purchased a copy of the chart. If you paid $35, you have purchased a copyrighted copy). If you want to publish an index list of who is included in the chart, I see no harm in that. In fact, we have offered an index list to SOAR for the charts that the Lower Volga Village group holds, but were told that they don't want our lists unless we give them the chart and permission to sell it. We have NOT reached that decision yet. Janet Flickinger I have the Weber (Balzer) and Libsack/Lebsack/Lobsack (Frank) charts in FTM - willing to share. :-) Shauna Libsack I have the Nolde Chart from Norka in computer format. You can view the information in the Pedigree Resource File at http://www.familysearch.org. Or if anyone is interested I can email a gedcom file. Marven Weitzel Port St. Lucie, FL -- Soon to be back in Texas If anyone ever wanted to do a project along these lines, i would be willing to help. diane rogers >From: "E. Sharp" <bellemarco@hotmail.com> >To: <GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [GV] Pleve charts >Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 06:56:17 -0700 > >I have often wondered why these charts are not in a computer format, such >as >Family Tree Maker. While I know the handwritten charts are a treasure, I >would think it would be easier for the Pleve's to use a computer generated >program to enter the information. It seems it would also be easier for the >person receiving the chart on a disk to enter the information onto their >computer program. >...just a thought.... > >Elaine > I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in "genealogy land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any type of database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like me have a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the Norka Muller chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are like me I used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own research and pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts I see more and more familiar names that I have run across in other places. I kind of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question makes sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for your time. Glen A. Frederick ------------------------------- ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Well said Glen...clap, clap, clap! Kevin -- Kevin Rupp 2301 Canal Blvd Hays, Ks. 67601 krupp@ruraltel.net www.volgagerman.net volgagerman@ruraltel.net > From: Glen Frederick <lawver@ix.netcom.com> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 21:13:55 -0700 > To: <GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [GV] FW: Pleve charts > > Ok, enough already!! Before I posted this message below a couple days ago I > had not seen much on this list about Pleve charts, although, I understand > over the years there may have been a lot of misunderstanding and confusion > concerning them. My inquiry was certainly not soliciting free information > or suggesting that someone compromise copyrights, if there are actually any. > It was merely a question as to if anyone had ever done a master index of > sorts off some of the family charts. I think I have to agree with Kevin > Rupp's email and also add that we need to not get so uptight about these > issues. Are we not all pretty much here for the same reason? I think if > Mary Smith feels like she was treated unfairly and rudely in email responses > then possibly some apologies are in order. That is my two cents worth. > Thanks, > > Glen A Frederick > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Glen Frederick > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:55 PM > To: GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [GV] Pleve charts > > I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in "genealogy > land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any type of > database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like me have > a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the Norka Muller > chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are like me I > used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own research and > pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts I see > more and more familiar names that I have run across in other places. I kind > of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question makes > sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be > impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for > your time. > > > > Glen A. Frederick > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Janet, I have never seen a Pleve Chart that was copyrighted, where does it say that? Not to stir up any trouble here but I just bought a Lesner Pleve chart off of e-bay for $50.00 and as far as I an concerned I should be able to do what ever I wanted to do with it. I understand though if a person buys a chart off of someone perhaps if they tell you not to share the chart you should respect their wishes, but otherwise whats the difference buying it from an individual person, e-bay or AHSGR? I agree also if you buy a chart you should not photocopy it and sell it, but once you have placed this information into a data base then then information has been altered and should be ok to use. But, the information should be sourced. Like I said before, not trying to stir up trouble, but had to voice my thoughts. It's too bad Mary received so many "Hate Mails". Seems like to all goes back to the same issue, This is mine and I'm not going to share it with any one. Oh, well..... Kevin Rupp -- Kevin Rupp 2301 Canal Blvd Hays, Ks. 67601 krupp@ruraltel.net www.volgagerman.net volgagerman@ruraltel.net > From: <RedHd4Str8@aol.com> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 23:23:32 EDT > To: <janflick@cox.net> > Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [GV] Fwd: Pleve charts > > To this list and others of you who sent me rude hate mail: > > This is a copy of an earlier email I sent to this list. I have no intention > of giving out any info word for word, but from my own personal family passed > down and recorded in family bibles and word of g g grandparents etc, family > history . I did also a lot of personal paid for research. > Just as I did on my dad's family to find out I descend from Royal roots of > the same line that Queen Victoria herself come from. > > and why several have targeted me today is beyond me > there are several others also out there that also mentioned they were > willing to share any info also. > > Did you send that email to them as well I paid out personally a lot for > money for those three charts and have located what I wanted. Others I guess > can do the same. I havent even been active in doing any family research on > this side of my family. I have even had a friend who is stationed in Germany > try > to help me find out more. > What I said was I would be willing to share, from three charts however I > take that back. > I had a lot of help from a lot of really nice people when doing my family > research and thought for the first time I would give some back. I have given > oodles of my familys obits to your sites and today I have been tarred and > feathered in email. as a matter of fact as of now I am removing myself from > this > list. > Mary Smith > > Just a reminder that unless you paid the $500 or whatever for the Pleve > research, you don't have the right to copy and share the charts. (They are > copyrighted and you more then likely just purchased a copy of the chart. If > you paid $35, you have purchased a copyrighted copy). If you want to > publish an index list of who is included in the chart, I see no harm in > that. In fact, we have offered an index list to SOAR for the charts that > the Lower Volga Village group holds, but were told that they don't want our > lists unless we give them the chart and permission to sell it. We have NOT > reached that decision yet. > > Janet Flickinger > > > I have the Weber (Balzer) and Libsack/Lebsack/Lobsack (Frank) charts in FTM > - willing to share. :-) > Shauna Libsack > > I have the Nolde Chart from Norka in computer format. You can view the > information in the Pedigree Resource File at http://www.familysearch.org. > Or if anyone is interested I can email a gedcom file. > > Marven Weitzel > Port St. Lucie, FL -- Soon to be back in Texas > > If anyone ever wanted to do a project along these lines, i would be willing > to help. > diane rogers > > >> From: "E. Sharp" <bellemarco@hotmail.com> >> To: <GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: Re: [GV] Pleve charts >> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 06:56:17 -0700 >> >> I have often wondered why these charts are not in a computer format, such >> as >> Family Tree Maker. While I know the handwritten charts are a treasure, I >> would think it would be easier for the Pleve's to use a computer generated >> program to enter the information. It seems it would also be easier for the >> person receiving the chart on a disk to enter the information onto their >> computer program. >> ...just a thought.... >> >> Elaine >> > I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in "genealogy > land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any type of > database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like me have > a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the Norka Muller > chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are like me I > used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own research and > pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts I see > more and more familiar names that I have run across in other places. I kind > of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question makes > sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be > impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for > your time. > > > > Glen A. Frederick > > > ------------------------------- > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Ok, enough already!! Before I posted this message below a couple days ago I had not seen much on this list about Pleve charts, although, I understand over the years there may have been a lot of misunderstanding and confusion concerning them. My inquiry was certainly not soliciting free information or suggesting that someone compromise copyrights, if there are actually any. It was merely a question as to if anyone had ever done a master index of sorts off some of the family charts. I think I have to agree with Kevin Rupp's email and also add that we need to not get so uptight about these issues. Are we not all pretty much here for the same reason? I think if Mary Smith feels like she was treated unfairly and rudely in email responses then possibly some apologies are in order. That is my two cents worth. Thanks, Glen A Frederick -----Original Message----- From: ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Glen Frederick Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:55 PM To: GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GV] Pleve charts I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in "genealogy land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any type of database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like me have a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the Norka Muller chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are like me I used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own research and pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts I see more and more familiar names that I have run across in other places. I kind of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question makes sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for your time. Glen A. Frederick ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am descended from Johannes Schuckmann, b. Oct 1851 in Russia; m. Anna Elizabeth Werth, b. 15 Aug 1851 in Russia. They traveled from Schoenchen, Russia to Saratov then to Hamburg where they boarded the SS Suevia. They arrived in NY on 3 Aug 1876. Their children were John, Ben, Maria, Anton, Catherine, John, Alois (Louis), Theobaltus, and Fredrick. I believe her parents were John and Anna (Mertz or Merz) Werth. Any info would be appreciated. -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

My great grandfather was George John Niedens, b. 4 Jul 1870 in Mueller, Russia. He m. Mary Katherine Krug 15 Dec 1895 in Milberger, Russell, KS, & d. 30 Oct 1956 in Great Bend, Barton, KS. I have not been able to trace his family but believe he may have descended from Johann Michael Niedens, b. 1769 in Kratzke, Russia; m. Anna Elisabeth Buxmann, b. 1770 in Mueller, Russia. Both d. in Mueller, Russia. Johann Michael Niedens was the son of Johann Heinrich Samuel Niedens, b. 1735 in Germany & m. Maria Katharina Dorothea mnu, b. 1738 in Germany. Both d. in Mueller, Russia. Can anyone help me fill in the spaces? -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

A list of charts has been available for a long time here: http://www.ahsgr.org/surname_charts.htm both by surname and by village. Gary Martens On 3 Aug 2007 at 14:25, Don Loose wrote: > Glen, > > My first thought indicated that such a project would be a good idea. > I then thought about the amount of work involved for "reproducing" > such charts and also felt that the "family" information is of a > personal nature; some have already mentioned the cost incurred by > individuals for such information and for their concern toward funding > of future charts. I could see an arrangement such that family > surnames found on a chart could be made an alphabetized list (for > reference) for those interested in possible names/locations, and such > information put on the AHSGR website (if it already is not). It has > been some time ago that such lists were provided by those having > received commissioned charts, but (possibly) there have not been any > Pleve Charts, recently, to share with those on the list serve. > > Are there any thoughts along this line? > > Don Loose > Life Member AHSGR > Warren, Mich. > > On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:55 AM, Glen Frederick wrote: > > > I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in > > "genealogy > > land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any > > type of > > database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like > > me have > > a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the > > Norka Muller > > chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are > > like me I > > used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own > > research and > > pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts > > I see > > more and more familiar names that I have run across in other > > places. I kind > > of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question > > makes > > sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be > > impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. > > Thanks for > > your time. > > > > > > > > Glen A. Frederick > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 2437 (20070803) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Glen, My first thought indicated that such a project would be a good idea. I then thought about the amount of work involved for "reproducing" such charts and also felt that the "family" information is of a personal nature; some have already mentioned the cost incurred by individuals for such information and for their concern toward funding of future charts. I could see an arrangement such that family surnames found on a chart could be made an alphabetized list (for reference) for those interested in possible names/locations, and such information put on the AHSGR website (if it already is not). It has been some time ago that such lists were provided by those having received commissioned charts, but (possibly) there have not been any Pleve Charts, recently, to share with those on the list serve. Are there any thoughts along this line? Don Loose Life Member AHSGR Warren, Mich. On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:55 AM, Glen Frederick wrote: > I was wondering with all the Pleve Family Charts out there in > "genealogy > land" if anyone has actually indexed or put all the names on any > type of > database format like Family Tree Maker. I am sure many of you like > me have > a number of these charts, some of which, like for instance, the > Norka Muller > chart, are very large and contain hundreds of names. If you are > like me I > used the chart for the names and families I needed for my own > research and > pretty well ignored the rest. However, the more I study the charts > I see > more and more familiar names that I have run across in other > places. I kind > of feel like I am rambling on so I better quit. I hope my question > makes > sense even if the idea of actually doing something like this may be > impractical and monumental. I would like to hear your thoughts. > Thanks for > your time. > > > > Glen A. Frederick > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message