Dear List, This has been a very interesting discussion, and having published with publishers, universities, having been contracted to write up research, etc., very factual information, I thought I could contribute to the conversation. Instead I got pounded on, again. When I try to share on this list I always seem to get negative sideways confrontation. Just gotta prove me wrong. All of us should be able to openly contribute without fear of reticule. No one on this list has read all of my work, so to judge my experience with publishing is a bit much. My father-in-law published in Russia, my mother-in-law published in Russia, my cousins have published in Russia. These materials have been books, medical papers, research. I'm very well published too. I published with a genealogy society in Britain. And we have all been translated. Its what I do for a living. You would think just a bit of what I share would be seen as useful. Can't those who want a "fight" just take what you like and leave the rest? I'm here to learn about my heritage. Not get pounded every time I post. It gets very tiresome and it sets a bad example for new members on the list. If you don't like how I write, if you think I'm "serendipity" or believe its your job to take me down a few notches, and believe my work is not factual, if you think I'm a flake, fine, but email me personally. Carla Vera Beljakova <atacama@global.co.za> wrote: Hi - I pulled a few more books down from my shelf and see the same again: Alexander Solzhenitsyn has a copyright for his original work. The translator Michael Glenny also has a copyright for his translation (into English). Publisher Bodley Head (holds no copyright) >From another book: Wilfried Strik-Strikfeld has his copyright to his history. The translator David Footman also has a copyright to his translation into English. Publisher MacMillan (holds no copyright) I suppose it all boils down to money: who pays whom and what the conditions are in the contract and the small print at the bottom. Russian books are usually festooned with 3 copyrights: - author + publisher + academic institute. Pleve's books in Russian have 3 copyrights (but not his charts). I R Pleve (author) + International society of German culture (probably sponsors) + Publisher (Gotik in this case.) Vera Beljakova-Miller Vera ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Just as bad, is paying money for advertised items that are misrepresented, and false information. smcginness1@cox.net wrote: That's what I thought I would find by subscribing to this website, but seeing all the arguments over copyrights and at least one person who reported getting "hate" mail, I'm not so sure. I'm just a poor descendant of Volga Germans, and I'm just as proud of my heritage as the next guy, but frankly I can't afford $35 or $50 or $150 to buy a chart that may or may not have any information on it concerning my ancestors. The experiences I have had with paying for information is that I pay up front and then wait for a response, which is usually, "Sorry, no information was found regarding -----." And there I am, with no info and no money either. Hey, I'm tracing my family's roots because I think it's important to know where you came from, I want to know where I came from, and I want my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, and my great-great-grandchildren to know where they came from, and what their ancestors went through to come to the "land of the free." So I'm more than wi! lling to share any information I have that may help someone else. If I wanted to go through all the legal wrangling of copyrights, blah, blah, blah, I'd just mortgage my home and pay a professional genealogist to do the work and present me with a finished product. But I find doing the research is half the fun and being able to share it and help someone else on their way is the other half. Just my opinion, for what it's worth... ---- Charles Parcels wrote: ============= Some people are intelligent, some are not, some are rude, boastful, shy, quarrelsome,compassionate, sincere, etc. etc. etc., but we are all ONE FAMILY,GERMANS from RUSSIA ! Let's keep it that way ! (helping, careing,&sharing,with one another ) --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

I guess the word has not percolated well enough. SOAR has all the surname charts available through AHSGR in the SOAR database. Doris Evans did an incredible amount of work indexing all the names in the charts so that if you search in SOAR your surname will pop up in whatever chart it is appears in. If you haven't looked at SOAR lately - you should check out all the additions that went in before the summer convention. SOAR is available from the AHSGR website ahsgr.org. Lauren Brantner SOAR Committee Member --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Quoting from published books is not relevant to our case or the general case. Authors, translators, publishers negotiate their respective copyrights, and this overrides, unless they do something outrageously unlawful, holds over the "generic" law. Remember, all the producers of the works we are using are contractors, who did/do it under contract to the person who pays. do NOT use "reply": spam filtering active. send e-mail only to mailto:terry@sterkel.org, or betsy@sterkel.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [GV] translation copyright / Russian method. > From: "Vera Beljakova" <atacama@global.co.za> > Date: Sun, August 05, 2007 4:46 am > To: <ger-volga-l@rootsweb.com> > > Hi - > I pulled a few more books down from my shelf and see > the same again: > > Alexander Solzhenitsyn has a copyright for his original > work. > The translator Michael Glenny also has a copyright for his > translation > (into English). Publisher Bodley Head (holds no > copyright) > > >From another book: > Wilfried Strik-Strikfeld has his copyright to his history. > The translator David Footman also has a copyright to his > translation > into English. Publisher MacMillan (holds no copyright) > > I suppose it all boils down to money: who pays whom and > what the > conditions are in the contract and the small print at the > bottom. > > Russian books are usually festooned with 3 copyrights: > - author + publisher + academic institute. > > Pleve's books in Russian have 3 copyrights (but not his > charts). > I R Pleve (author) > + International society of German culture (probably > sponsors) > + Publisher (Gotik in this case.) > > Vera Beljakova-Miller > > > > > Vera > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's what I thought I would find by subscribing to this website, but seeing all the arguments over copyrights and at least one person who reported getting "hate" mail, I'm not so sure. I'm just a poor descendant of Volga Germans, and I'm just as proud of my heritage as the next guy, but frankly I can't afford $35 or $50 or $150 to buy a chart that may or may not have any information on it concerning my ancestors. The experiences I have had with paying for information is that I pay up front and then wait for a response, which is usually, "Sorry, no information was found regarding -----." And there I am, with no info and no money either. Hey, I'm tracing my family's roots because I think it's important to know where you came from, I want to know where I came from, and I want my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, and my great-great-grandchildren to know where they came from, and what their ancestors went through to come to the "land of the free." So I'm more than wi! lling to share any information I have that may help someone else. If I wanted to go through all the legal wrangling of copyrights, blah, blah, blah, I'd just mortgage my home and pay a professional genealogist to do the work and present me with a finished product. But I find doing the research is half the fun and being able to share it and help someone else on their way is the other half. Just my opinion, for what it's worth... ---- Charles Parcels <volgager4440@yahoo.com> wrote: ============= Some people are intelligent, some are not, some are rude, boastful, shy, quarrelsome,compassionate, sincere, etc. etc. etc., but we are all ONE FAMILY,GERMANS from RUSSIA ! Let's keep it that way ! (helping, careing,&sharing,with one another ) --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

Wow Terry. That's a real loss, but I understand the how the headache of dealing with such difficulties can become too much. Still, what a loss. Carla terry@sterkel.org wrote: I was among the pioneers in the mid 1990's who painstakingly converted the mass of data in the Family Charts into electronic format (AGS/GenDex/Mills). (These are frequently mis-named "Pleve Chart", after one of the various commercial (for-pay) services that provide family charts.) I put it up at my expense on a personal web page, paying extra for the server space, in classic "GEDList" and HTML family chart form, and offered to provide it in GedEx and LDS formats as an information exchange with other researchers. I had over 5000 individuals with full AGS/Mills sourcing on line. After less than two years, I took the web site down, due to harassment such as: 1. people saying that I "stole" their research, putting the claims, without evidence, on the various German Russian mail lists and private e-mails. 2. people saying that I violated the "copyright" of the for-hire commercial entity. Utterly untrue. Check the Library of Congress explanation on the lack of copyright for for-hire commercial entities, the copyright is held by the contractee (payer.) In addition, at least at that time, USSR and Russia were not signatories to the International Copyright Convention. 3. people demanding that I misuse the genealogy tags, to meet their refusal to read the AGS, and LDS manuals on what these tags are for. One especially egregious example was the use of the "title (Mr/Mrs/Colonel/Dr./et.al.)" tag for "village religion" when there is a "religion" tag for that info. Another example was to encode the researcher ID code into the "title" when there is a "source" tag for this info. 4. Direct and indirect claims that I was "somehow" making money off this work. In the 25 years of doing this, I have only once accepted "pay" for any expense, including postage. I once got a baseball hat embroidered with the registered "Sterkel" Cattle Brand. Simply put, I got tired of defending my integrity and for following recognized standards of genealogy documentation. I took the 5000 individuals off the internet and saved the server fees and all the time defending myself. do NOT use "reply": spam filtering active. send e-mail only to mailto:terry@sterkel.org, or betsy@sterkel.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Well said! That's a good note to end this day on. Thanks! Becky Jamison in Colorado On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:56:45 -0500 <smcginness1@cox.net> wrote: > That's what I thought I would find by subscribing to this website, but >seeing all the arguments over copyrights and at least one person who reported >getting "hate" mail, I'm not so sure. I'm just a poor descendant of Volga >Germans, and I'm just as proud of my heritage as the next guy, but frankly I >can't afford $35 or $50 or $150 to buy a chart that may or may not have any >information on it concerning my ancestors. The experiences I have had with >paying for information is that I pay up front and then wait for a response, >which is usually, "Sorry, no information was found regarding -----." And >there I am, with no info and no money either. Hey, I'm tracing my family's >roots because I think it's important to know where you came from, I want to >know where I came from, and I want my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, >and my great-great-grandchildren to know where they came from, and what their >ancestors went through to come to the "land of the free." So I'm more than >wi! > lling to share any information I have that may help someone else. If I >wanted to go through all the legal wrangling of copyrights, blah, blah, blah, >I'd just mortgage my home and pay a professional genealogist to do the work >and present me with a finished product. But I find doing the research is >half the fun and being able to share it and help someone else on their way is >the other half. Just my opinion, for what it's worth... > ---- Charles Parcels <volgager4440@yahoo.com> wrote: > > ============= > Some people are intelligent, some are not, some are rude, >boastful, shy, quarrelsome,compassionate, sincere, etc. etc. etc., but we are >all ONE FAMILY,GERMANS from RUSSIA ! > Let's keep it that way ! (helping, >careing,&sharing,with one another ) > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Have a great day :-) > > Sharon McGinness > smcginness1@cox.net > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message

Hugh Thanks for the words. Gerhard

Hi all, There are different copyright rules around - and the Russian copyright is different. All this work and the charts originate from Russia - so you need to look at Russian copyright laws. You can copyright invention and creative art and things that your mind created and conclusions that you reach from your esearch - or anybody's research. [ Your research proves, e.g. that Peter the Great's real father was a Red Indian. ] You can't copyright facts and figures. Only your interpretation of them can be copyrighted. Did Pleve copyright his work? Don't forget, most of his research was sub-contracted to his students. That said, all my charts from Russia and photocopies from the archives are copyrighted. Russian masterpieces or old masters are copyrighted by the museums - but actually, all it means is that the museum /art gallery holds the copyright (not to the original work) but to the image/photo that they made and sold to you. You buy the copyright to use their photo of an old master in your art book, eg. Same with the archives. The archives photocopy stuff for me and those 'photocopies' are copyrighted. You can take the info and use it, of course, for your own research. I've just pulled off my bookshelf Alexander Solchenitsyn's books in English translation. The copyright of the novels belong to the author. The translator holds the copyright to his translation of the novels. The publishing house that paid the author and the translator holds NOTHING. However, in Russia, lots of books give you 3 copyrights: authors, translators and publishers or, e.g., the academic institution which published the research ! I think the problem here on the list is - some want to share everything in a state of generous euphoria, whole others - having invested a ton of time and money, want to recuperate at least some funds, not because they are greedy, but because they wish to recycle the income into further research. ...my problem is, that while I do not mind sharing with my nearest and dearest who have supported me in my efforts, what do I do with those 'cousins' who have been singularly unresponsive, uncaring, uncommunicative - and now expect the same handouts from me as those who really tried to help me along the way ??? I always admire all those of you who publish books for sale. My lot of relatives and friends wouldn't dream to spending a penny on my lifelong efforts, believing that it is their due - Since they are blood relatives, they do believe they have a right to ownership, even if I send about 10 yrs and trace us my to Mary Magdalena. What to do in my case ? Vera

Hi, Everyone . I've been out of touch with the list for awhile, and have been reading messages again today. I notice that there are quite a few missing response posts along message threads. I suspect this is the result of many list-members not using "Reply to All" when responding to mail list messages intended for everyone? Of course, it is the responder's choice to reply to only an individual, or to the list, or to both. But I just wanted to offer a reminder that our GV list is apparently set up to reply only to the author of the post. E.g. when we simply hit "Reply", our reply email goes only to one person -- the author of the message we are replying to. If we intend for everyone on the list to be able to read our response, we need to use "Reply to All" -- or we need to make a point to add "GER-VOLGA-L-rootsweb.com" to the address line of our message. I hope I've assessed this situation correctly . and I hoping everyone is having a good research summer . Best regards, Jennifer David Dietel: DAVID, PITSCH (owner of a P. chart for each of these two surnames) Frank: BAUER, LEBSACK Norka: FOX (FUCHS), KOEHLER, BREHM

Terry: I want you to know that I really appreciated your site and was sorry you had to remove it. If it weren't for you I probably wouldn't have located my Nolde ancestors from Norka. You have my grandfather and grandmother in your data base, but I thought they were someone else because of discrepancies in their birthdates. But your entry caused me to contact Dr. Pleve, and ultimately acquire the Nolde chart. Thanks for your good work. Marven Weitzel Port St. Lucie, FL

Some people are intelligent, some are not, some are rude, boastful, shy, quarrelsome,compassionate, sincere, etc. etc. etc., but we are all ONE FAMILY,GERMANS from RUSSIA ! Let's keep it that way ! (helping, careing,&sharing,with one another ) --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

I have been doing genealogy for about 27 years and over that time have made many friends. Some of those friends have managed to arrange vacations to meet me personally at my home. A major part of the collection of data was far before there was email. There was a lot of letter writing and waiting for responses. Many of the people that I have worked with in those old days of snail mail were nice enough to share copies of their Pleve charts with me so that I could input the data and then print them a word like document that could easily be shared with their other family members. I just checked all the copies of about 20 charts that Pleve has done that I have and there is nothing written on any of the charts that they were done by him nor do they have any dates as to when they were prepared. The only documentation to validate the date of the chart is the cover letter and accompanying copies of records that Pleve sends with the chart. I have the Weber chart for the village of Reinwald. No I have not given my chart to AHSGR since I would like to know who is asking for it and how are they connected. AHSGR knows I have the chart and if someone were to contact me that is family I am more than willing to share copies at no cost to those people. The charts are very expensive and many people feel that if someone wants the chart then payment is requested to try to recoup some of the original cost of the chart. The original Weber chart as well as a copy of the Veller chart for my grandmothers family are now framed (thanks to my husband) and mounted on the wall in my room. If anyone is interested, my data base is over 80,000 people and I have tons of information for many of the volga villages. Susie Weber Hess VC Krasnojar and Reinwald

I was among the pioneers in the mid 1990's who painstakingly converted the mass of data in the Family Charts into electronic format (AGS/GenDex/Mills). (These are frequently mis-named "Pleve Chart", after one of the various commercial (for-pay) services that provide family charts.) I put it up at my expense on a personal web page, paying extra for the server space, in classic "GEDList" and HTML family chart form, and offered to provide it in GedEx and LDS formats as an information exchange with other researchers. I had over 5000 individuals with full AGS/Mills sourcing on line. After less than two years, I took the web site down, due to harassment such as: 1. people saying that I "stole" their research, putting the claims, without evidence, on the various German Russian mail lists and private e-mails. 2. people saying that I violated the "copyright" of the for-hire commercial entity. Utterly untrue. Check the Library of Congress explanation on the lack of copyright for for-hire commercial entities, the copyright is held by the contractee (payer.) In addition, at least at that time, USSR and Russia were not signatories to the International Copyright Convention. 3. people demanding that I misuse the genealogy tags, to meet their refusal to read the AGS, and LDS manuals on what these tags are for. One especially egregious example was the use of the "title (Mr/Mrs/Colonel/Dr./et.al.)" tag for "village religion" when there is a "religion" tag for that info. Another example was to encode the researcher ID code into the "title" when there is a "source" tag for this info. 4. Direct and indirect claims that I was "somehow" making money off this work. In the 25 years of doing this, I have only once accepted "pay" for any expense, including postage. I once got a baseball hat embroidered with the registered "Sterkel" Cattle Brand. Simply put, I got tired of defending my integrity and for following recognized standards of genealogy documentation. I took the 5000 individuals off the internet and saved the server fees and all the time defending myself. do NOT use "reply": spam filtering active. send e-mail only to mailto:terry@sterkel.org, or betsy@sterkel.org

Thank you all for Pleve's address. Pat Lautenbach

Actually with foreign rights, translations, I've had several books I've written translated into German, Polish, Czechoslovakian, etc., and the publishing houses that have hired the various translators to translate the books actually own the Copyright. Not the translators. If an author holds the Copyright, not the publisher, and if that author sells Copyright privileges directly to the translator, the translator has the Copyright on the translated book. Typically, Publishing Houses hash all of this stuff out as different countries have different laws with regard to Copyright.. Vera Beljakova <atacama@global.co.za> wrote: Hi all, There are different copyright rules around - and the Russian copyright is different. All this work and the charts originate from Russia - so you need to look at Russian copyright laws. You can copyright invention and creative art and things that your mind created and conclusions that you reach from your esearch - or anybody's research. [ Your research proves, e.g. that Peter the Great's real father was a Red Indian. ] You can't copyright facts and figures. Only your interpretation of them can be copyrighted. Did Pleve copyright his work? Don't forget, most of his research was sub-contracted to his students. That said, all my charts from Russia and photocopies from the archives are copyrighted. Russian masterpieces or old masters are copyrighted by the museums - but actually, all it means is that the museum /art gallery holds the copyright (not to the original work) but to the image/photo that they made and sold to you. You buy the copyright to use their photo of an old master in your art book, eg. Same with the archives. The archives photocopy stuff for me and those 'photocopies' are copyrighted. You can take the info and use it, of course, for your own research. I've just pulled off my bookshelf Alexander Solchenitsyn's books in English translation. The copyright of the novels belong to the author. The translator holds the copyright to his translation of the novels. The publishing house that paid the author and the translator holds NOTHING. However, in Russia, lots of books give you 3 copyrights: authors, translators and publishers or, e.g., the academic institution which published the research ! I think the problem here on the list is - some want to share everything in a state of generous euphoria, whole others - having invested a ton of time and money, want to recuperate at least some funds, not because they are greedy, but because they wish to recycle the income into further research. ...my problem is, that while I do not mind sharing with my nearest and dearest who have supported me in my efforts, what do I do with those 'cousins' who have been singularly unresponsive, uncaring, uncommunicative - and now expect the same handouts from me as those who really tried to help me along the way ??? I always admire all those of you who publish books for sale. My lot of relatives and friends wouldn't dream to spending a penny on my lifelong efforts, believing that it is their due - Since they are blood relatives, they do believe they have a right to ownership, even if I send about 10 yrs and trace us my to Mary Magdalena. What to do in my case ? Vera ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Good points made Vera. I am very willing to pay someone for information such as someone having a Pleve chart that directly ties to my GV family. I think it only proper pay for that kind of information. I had looked at one Pleve chart on one of the family names I am searching but it didn't tie to any of my family. I was very disappointed and was willing to pay $100 or so toward the amount the person had paid Mr. Pleve had it tied in. Dick Schmidt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vera Beljakova" <atacama@global.co.za> To: <ger-volga-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: [GV] different types of copyright > Hi all, > There are different copyright rules around - and the > Russian copyright > is different. All this work and the charts originate from > Russia - so > you need to look at Russian copyright laws. > > You can copyright invention and creative art and things > that your mind > created and conclusions that you reach from your > esearch - or > anybody's research. > [ Your research proves, e.g. that Peter the Great's real > father was a > Red Indian. ] You can't copyright facts and figures. > Only your > interpretation of them can be copyrighted. > > Did Pleve copyright his work? Don't forget, most of his > research was > sub-contracted to his students. > > That said, all my charts from Russia and photocopies from > the archives > are copyrighted. Russian masterpieces or old masters are > copyrighted by > the museums - but actually, all it means is that the > museum /art gallery > holds the copyright (not to the original work) but to the > image/photo > that they made and sold to you. You buy the copyright to > use their > photo of an old master in your art book, eg. > > Same with the archives. The archives photocopy stuff for > me and those > 'photocopies' are copyrighted. You can take the info and > use it, of > course, for your own research. > > I've just pulled off my bookshelf Alexander > Solchenitsyn's books in > English translation. The copyright of the novels belong > to the author. > The translator holds the copyright to his translation of > the novels. > The publishing house that paid the author and the > translator holds > NOTHING. > > However, in Russia, lots of books give you 3 copyrights: > authors, translators and publishers or, e.g., the academic > institution > which published the research ! > > I think the problem here on the list is > - some want to share everything in a state of generous > euphoria, whole > others > - having invested a ton of time and money, want to > recuperate > at least some funds, not because they are greedy, but > because they wish > to recycle the income into further research. > > ...my problem is, that while I do not mind sharing with my > nearest and > dearest who have supported me in my efforts, what do I do > with those > 'cousins' who have been singularly unresponsive, uncaring, > uncommunicative - and now expect the same handouts from me > as those who > really tried to help me along the way ??? > > I always admire all those of you who publish books for > sale. > My lot of relatives and friends wouldn't dream to spending > a penny on my > lifelong efforts, believing that it is their due - > Since they are blood relatives, they do believe they have > a right to > ownership, even if I send about 10 yrs and trace us my to > Mary > Magdalena. > > What to do in my case ? Vera > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 > 2:22 PM > >

Well said, Hugh. I agree. Dick Schmidt ----- Original Message ----- From: "hugh lichtenwald" <chief29105@yahoo.com> To: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: [GV] Charts, Copyrights and Genealogy > Hallo List: > > After 6 years of not very patient waiting, my surname chart is supposedly > finished. It has been paid for and I am now awaiting delivery. > > The idea of keeping the chart to myself or charging others for the > information contained therein is repugnant to me. The whole idea of > searching for one's roots is to make some sort of contact with our > ancestors. > > The copyright laws are supposedly for the protection of "original works" > but are so full of holes that one can circumvent them by making minor > changes to the work you are stealing from...that said, I have always > thought that census data and family charts were never meant to be > copyrighted. How in the world can one copyright names and dates? The > answer is that you can't! There are copyright tags on many census > renditions and family charts which are primarily bogus in nature unless > you reproduce the data verbatum. If I extract a name from a census that > someone has translated and put a copyright on, that name does not fall > under the copyright law. The name is just a name and not the original > property of the translator. > > As far as paying for a census translation is concerned, the fact is that > there are those who have been paid to do such translation and have then > put a copyright on their work. So who "owns" the translated census? Is it > the translator or is it the person/persons who employed the translator? > Bottom line is that it doesn't much matter who puts a copyright on a > translated census. The translator cannot claim names and dates as original > works under the copyright law. > > AHSGR and at least one other individual have put copyright tags on > censuses and have them for sale. While I find it moderately irritating > that Russian census compilations have a copyright tag, these censuses are > valuable research tools and I am glad that they are available. The > extraction of names and dates from the censuses is not "protected" by > copyright. > > The same goes for family charts. Extraction of names and dates is not a > violation of copyright law. You can jazz up your family chart with > commentary and photographs etc, but the data can be used and incorporated > by others without penalty. > > One needs to ponder whether one is doing family research or whether one > is in the genealogy "business." Are we trying to uncover and preserve our > heritage or are we trying to make a buck? > > Professional GV genealogists are sometimes a necessary evil but > eventually they will become unnecessary and will fade away. The amateur > GV genealogical researchers will eventually compile enough data to put > together the entire village structure of their ancestral villages. That, I > think, is the goal AHSGR. Are we in the business of genealogy or are we in > the "Genealogy Business?" > > Data should be shared, not hoarded, nor sold for profit. > > Hugh Lichtenwald, from the farm in Monetta, SC > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 > 2:22 PM > >

Can anyone please give me Pleve's email address. The one I have my email was returned. Thank you, Pat Lautenbach

Billings Gazette Billings, MT 4 Aug 2007 LAUREL - Eleanor Amelia Benner died Aug. 1, 2007, following complications after a broken hip. Eleanor was born April 11, 1922, in Melbeta, Neb., to Adam and Amelia (Greenwald) Seader. She attended schools in Fairview and Hammond Valley. She married Harry Benner on June 28, 1941, in Miles City. They lived in Forsyth, Billings and Laurel, and had two children, Ricky and Darlene. Ricky died in a drowning accident Aug. 7, 1976, in Laurel. Eleanor was a loving, honest and fair person with family and friends; always a hard worker, first as a waitress and later helping Harry in farming and home construction and related business. During this time, she also worked at St. John's Lutheran Home. She enjoyed pastimes such as crocheting and painting the many wood toys and decorations made by Harry. Eleanor will be missed greatly by her family. She was preceded in death by her parents; son, Ricky; brothers, Roy, Conrad, Dave, William and a baby brother that died at birth; sisters, Evelyn Bendewald, Molly Hein, Mable Bastrom and Frieda Schell. Survivors include her husband Harry; her daughter Darlene (Brad) Wetch; and grandchildren, Nathan Ellestad, Raymond and Raeann Wetch of Laurel; brothers Bob (Barbara) Seader, John (Pat) Seader of Billings; sisters Ollie Morton and Norma Steinback of Billings, Shirley (Ed) Fischer of Forsyth and Sharon (Larry) Williams of Hysham. Funeral services will be held at 10 a.m. Monday, Aug. 6, at St. John's Lutheran Church, 417 W. Ninth St, Laurel. Visitation will be held from 5 to 8 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 5, at Smith Funeral Chapel, 315 E. Third St., Laurel. Memorials may be sent to Rocky Mountain Hospice, 2110 Overland Ave., Suite 111, Billings, MT 59102; or St. John's Lutheran Church, 417 W. Ninth St. Laurel, MT 59044.