Sharon, I can help with the Pfeifer information. Sheri ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Hello everyone, Well just finished another 2 hours with Mom and another box of paper. I have 5 or 6 boxes of direct line family papers and those I know what to do with. I will be working on these items first. I have all of the direct line things already on my genealogy program and a lot of it was certificates (originals) and those went into the fire safe. At this point I may have 2 or 3 boxes (good size ones) of non direct line papers. It will take some time to go over all of it to make sure it is indeed non direct line stuff. This I will work on later. My head is swimming with names and places at this point. Although Mom is having some problems with short term memory right now, she is sharp with long term. She can tell me almost everything about each person and who she was communicating with back into the 60's, 70's and 80's. I wish I had had a tape recorder on now. I'm sure I can't remember it all. We are almost through all of the boxes. Where is this info from?...well it seems like everywhere. (please don't email me about specifics yet, I can't get back to where I saw it!). I remember Graham County, Ellis County, Salina or Saline County? I'm sure there were more in Kansas. Those are the ones I remember. Some were in Colorado like Denver Arapaho Co., Sedwick Co. Stirling, CO., and more. Even some in Chicago Illinois. I can't remember them all, but that is a just a few. Names were like Goetz, Miltenberger, Knoll, Mehler, Shcukman, Werth, Heile, Boxler, Nierberger, Graus, Pfeifer, Geist, Miller, Hoffmann, Vonfelt, Bissing, Urbert, Rupp, Weigel, Rohr, Werz, Kisner and a lot more. Some were from Russia such as Grave, Sewald, Herzog, Rohleder, Rothammel? and others. I will make sure the Village VC's get copies of those. I've received a number of emails on this subject and I really appreciate these suggestions also. I guarantee you, none of it will be thrown out or destroyed. That would break her heart. DB

In a message dated 8/5/2007 4:54:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ger-volga-request@rootsweb.com writes: Problem...I have reams of papers and binders filled with group sheets and information and letters (she kept everything) that are not my ancestors. Some are cousins and most are not even related. Most of them are people living in Kansas and a lot of them were born in Russia. DB, If you have anything on Burgdorfs or Erdmanns (or Erdmans), I would love to know! (My great-grandparents were married in Great Bend, Kansas, in January 1880.) Thanks, Julie ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

I'm a Germans from Russia descendant and am originally from Great Bend, Kansas but would suggest that you look at this web site: http://www.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/grhc/index.html and contact Michael Miller at the contact link and ask for his recommendation. They have excellent expertise and quite a library of material on the Germans from Russia. This sounds like a very valuable collection and should certainly be sent to a University or Society that is familiar with the history of the Volga Germans. Just my thoughts. Becky (Margheim) Jamison in Colorado On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:13:45 -0700 "Leichtling" <leichtling@boydhouse.com> wrote: > > Hi Sharon, > No I haven't thought about a local historical group. I'm in California and I > wonder if they would even care about German Russians in Kansas. > > Maybe something in Kansas where they are from??? > > DB > > > PS, I have got to change from Digest to List mode. How do I do that? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message

My great-grandmother was Magdalena (Heim) Jacob; her parents were Simon Heim and Klara Schmidt. All I know about them is that they lived in Pfeifer, Russia. Can anyone help me out here? -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

A fine day to all! Thanks go out to those who have contributed wisely and positively to the extended and worthy discussion on genealogy and copyrights. I'm sure many of us have learned a thing or two. Most amateur researchers and family historians have been very kind in sharing material over the years...a network of sharing. In 1996, I had commissioned Dr. Pleve to research the Hubers of Bangert in Russia. The resulting pedigree chart has two distinct Huber families which settled in the village in 1765. One, my gang, (Stephan Huber) originated from Grimmelfingen near Ulm, Wurttemburg, the other (Johann Huber) near Frankfort in Hesse. The California AHSGR in Fresno has a copy. For further information, give a shout. I don't mind checking for possible links and provide family data. regards Cliff Huber Kakabeka Falls ON Canada

Looking for info re: the following: Juliana Keberlein b 1776 or 1778 in Pfeifer; father was Adam Keberlein, mother ??; m Michael Jacob 1795 Pfeifer, Russia (s of Nicolaus & Margaretha Schwed Jakob). Anna Maria Roth b June 1817 Pfeifer, Russia; parents ??; m Andreas Jacob 1837 Pfeifer, Russia (s of Michael & Juliana Keberlein Jacob). -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

My thoughts on this, DB: if these are GR families from Kansas, the papers should be in Kansas where they will be accessible (KS Historical Society or the like). Also it might be worth donating them to AHSGR. I'm just glad to learn that you won't throw them away. They are valuable to some family researcher, right? Dona Reeves-Marquardt ________________________________ From: ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Leichtling Sent: Sun 8/5/2007 2:23 PM To: ger-volga@rootsweb.com Subject: [GV] A lot of paper! I have a different subject for this list I have an 80 year old Mother who is now in assisted living. She has a diagnosis of Lewy Body Dementia (Alzheimer's and Parkinson's combined). We had to close her house down and sell it (back in April) and all of her "stuff" is now in my garage. As I share a love for genealogy with her she has decided she wants to go over all of her work and papers with me. I spend about 2 or 3 hours each day with her so it gives us something to do and she loves it. It's also good for her! She is "Old School" genealogy. Everything written down and kept. Back in her days if you ran into a road block you tried using a "side street" or tracking cousins or others in the same area with the same surnames. Also back in her hay days there was less info than what is available now. So tracking side line was fun for her and she communicated with a lot of people by "letters". Problem...I have reams of papers and binders filled with group sheets and information and letters (she kept everything) that are not my ancestors. Some are cousins and most are not even related. Most of them are people living in Kansas and a lot of them were born in Russia. I can't and won't destroy them, but what is the best thing to do with them. I wish I could find the ancestors (some of you guys) and give it too them, but that would take a lot of time I'm afraid. I don't want to just sit on these papers. Any suggestions? Has anyone had this question (problem)? DB ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Juliana Keberlein b 1776 or 1778 in Pfeifer; father was Adam Keberlein, mother ??; m Michael Jacob 1795 Pfeifer, Russia (s of Nicolaus & Margaretha Schwed Jakob). Anna Maria Roth b June 1817 Pfeifer, Russia; parents ??; m Andreas Jacob 1837 Pfeifer, Russia (s of Michael & Juliana Keberlein Jacob). -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

Looking for info re: Nicolaus Jakob, b. 1729 Neuburg, Mainz, Germany. He m1 Walpurgia mnu 1767 in Neuburg, Mainz, Germany; b. 1731 in Germany, d. abt. 1767 enroute to Volga region. He m2 in 1768 Margaretha Schwed, b. 1748 in Germany. Nicolaus Jakob d. 1797 or 1798 in Pfeifer, Russia; Margaretha Schwed Jakob also d. in Pfeifer Russia. Michael, s. of Nicolaus & Margaretha Schwed Jakob b. 1772 Pfeifer, Russia. -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net

---- Leichtling <leichtling@boydhouse.com> wrote: ============= I have a different subject for this list I have an 80 year old Mother who is now in assisted living. She has a diagnosis of Lewy Body Dementia (Alzheimer's and Parkinson's combined). We had to close her house down and sell it (back in April) and all of her "stuff" is now in my garage. As I share a love for genealogy with her she has decided she wants to go over all of her work and papers with me. I spend about 2 or 3 hours each day with her so it gives us something to do and she loves it. It's also good for her! She is "Old School" genealogy. Everything written down and kept. Back in her days if you ran into a road block you tried using a "side street" or tracking cousins or others in the same area with the same surnames. Also back in her hay days there was less info than what is available now. So tracking side line was fun for her and she communicated with a lot of people by "letters". Problem...I have reams of papers and binders filled with group sheets and information and letters (she kept everything) that are not my ancestors. Some are cousins and most are not even related. Most of them are people living in Kansas and a lot of them were born in Russia. I can't and won't destroy them, but what is the best thing to do with them. I wish I could find the ancestors (some of you guys) and give it too them, but that would take a lot of time I'm afraid. I don't want to just sit on these papers. Any suggestions? Has anyone had this question (problem)? DB ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Have a great day :-) Sharon McGinness smcginness1@cox.net Have you thought about donating them to the local historical society?

Hello list, I would be interested to know if anyone has the Aschenbrenner or Shoenfeld lists they would be willing to share Thank You Cynthia Perkins fishingirl04@msn.com Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Hi Sharon, No I haven't thought about a local historical group. I'm in California and I wonder if they would even care about German Russians in Kansas. Maybe something in Kansas where they are from??? DB PS, I have got to change from Digest to List mode. How do I do that?

Hey Cliff! How are you? By the way, I have a copy of the Andreas Pleve chart (Warrenberg) so if anyone is interested, give me a hollar! Carla chuber <chuber@tbaytel.net> wrote: A fine day to all! Thanks go out to those who have contributed wisely and positively to the extended and worthy discussion on genealogy and copyrights. I'm sure many of us have learned a thing or two. Most amateur researchers and family historians have been very kind in sharing material over the years...a network of sharing. In 1996, I had commissioned Dr. Pleve to research the Hubers of Bangert in Russia. The resulting pedigree chart has two distinct Huber families which settled in the village in 1765. One, my gang, (Stephan Huber) originated from Grimmelfingen near Ulm, Wurttemburg, the other (Johann Huber) near Frankfort in Hesse. The California AHSGR in Fresno has a copy. For further information, give a shout. I don't mind checking for possible links and provide family data. regards Cliff Huber Kakabeka Falls ON Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

Hello Fellow Decedents, Just wondering if anyone else is using Family Tree Legends for their genealogy software, I need your help. Have written to customer service about this problem, but they never reply. The problem is that when I try to use the "Smart Match" function, nothing happens. Does anyone else experience this? My Thanks, Dennis L. Sewald Se(e)wald, Schwab (Village of Seewald) Pfeif(f), Hartung (Village of Frank)

I have a different subject for this list I have an 80 year old Mother who is now in assisted living. She has a diagnosis of Lewy Body Dementia (Alzheimer's and Parkinson's combined). We had to close her house down and sell it (back in April) and all of her "stuff" is now in my garage. As I share a love for genealogy with her she has decided she wants to go over all of her work and papers with me. I spend about 2 or 3 hours each day with her so it gives us something to do and she loves it. It's also good for her! She is "Old School" genealogy. Everything written down and kept. Back in her days if you ran into a road block you tried using a "side street" or tracking cousins or others in the same area with the same surnames. Also back in her hay days there was less info than what is available now. So tracking side line was fun for her and she communicated with a lot of people by "letters". Problem...I have reams of papers and binders filled with group sheets and information and letters (she kept everything) that are not my ancestors. Some are cousins and most are not even related. Most of them are people living in Kansas and a lot of them were born in Russia. I can't and won't destroy them, but what is the best thing to do with them. I wish I could find the ancestors (some of you guys) and give it too them, but that would take a lot of time I'm afraid. I don't want to just sit on these papers. Any suggestions? Has anyone had this question (problem)? DB

Hi Gary, Yes, I agree with you that Pleve was a contractor, who, we are told sub-contracted to his students. Russia became a signatory to the international copyright law in 1974, but from the Russian academic lists I learn that when using, eg., Russian stuff, one needs to know for publication it is intended in which country, as various countries do have their own specifics. I am on a List of foreign academics working on research with Russia, and this topic is almost never-ending. I can't possibly read every mail, but what came out clearly is that the Russian museums/archvies hold the original work - they do not hold the copyright to the 'original', but they photocopy it or photograph it, and they hold the copyright to that what the reproduced. Researchers must pay a fee to use this (the museums'/archive's photocopy/photo/reproduction) for reproducing in their own printed books, magazines, etc... - or hot foot it to Russian personally to create their own reproduction, but them most archives/museums would not allow it in the first place. As you notice, there are notices around: "No cameras allowed" in many places. Stands to reason...this way the museum/archive earns a fee that brings in the income to hold/maintain/restore/etc... the objects and help finance the staff the museum/archive. Everything I obtain from Engels, every photocopy, is stamped with the archives copyright. Most of you, cannot read the original Russian, and the copyright wording which may also be on your photocopies. This is a universal problem - a newspaper photographer and writer on the staff works for the publication and gets a salary. Occasionally the photos become internationally renowed and are reproduced for years to to come. Publishers argue that they hold the right because they paid a salary, expenses, equipment, etc... Journalists & photographers who become famous obviously want to benefit from their 'creative' work. I see in a lot of books copyright on translations, for the translator, even when the publisher bought it/or paid for it. ----- Original Message ------ From:gpmartens@sbcglobal.net Sent:Saturday, August 04, 2007 19:33 To:Vera Beljakova atacama@global.co.za; Subject:Re: [GV] different types of copyright I spent time last night reading the Russian copyright law. Russian copyright law is almost an exact copy of the WIPO International Copyright Laws. Under that law, Pleve or his associates create a chart as a work for hire. They initially hold the copyright on the chart until it is delivered to the person who ordered the chart. At that time the copyright on the chart passes to the person who ordered/bought the chart. Gary On 4 Aug 2007 at 18:33, Vera Beljakova wrote: > Hi all, > There are different copyright rules around - and the > Russian copyright > is different. All this work and the charts originate from > Russia - so > you need to look at Russian copyright laws. > > You can copyright invention and creative art and things > that your mind > created and conclusions that you reach from your > esearch - or > anybody's research. > [ Your research proves, e.g. that Peter the Great's real > father was a > Red Indian. ] You can't copyright facts and figures. > Only your > interpretation of them can be copyrighted. > > Did Pleve copyright his work? Don't forget, most of his > research was > sub-contracted to his students. > > That said, all my charts from Russia and photocopies from > the archives > are copyrighted. Russian masterpieces or old masters are > copyrighted by > the museums - but actually, all it means is that the > museum /art gallery > holds the copyright (not to the original work) but to the > image/photo > that they made and sold to you. You buy the copyright to > use their > photo of an old master in your art book, eg. > > Same with the archives. The archives photocopy stuff for > me and those > 'photocopies' are copyrighted. You can take the info and > use it, of > course, for your own research. > > I've just pulled off my bookshelf Alexander > Solchenitsyn's books in > English translation. The copyright of the novels belong > to the author. > The translator holds the copyright to his translation of > the novels. > The publishing house that paid the author and the > translator holds > NOTHING. > > However, in Russia, lots of books give you 3 copyrights: > authors, translators and publishers or, e.g., the academic > institution > which published the research ! > > I think the problem here on the list is > - some want to share everything in a state of generous > euphoria, whole > others > - having invested a ton of time and money, want to > recuperate > at least some funds, not because they are greedy, but > because they wish > to recycle the income into further research. > > ...my problem is, that while I do not mind sharing with my > nearest and > dearest who have supported me in my efforts, what do I do > with those > 'cousins' who have been singularly unresponsive, uncaring, > uncommunicative - and now expect the same handouts from me > as those who > really tried to help me along the way ??? > > I always admire all those of you who publish books for > sale. > My lot of relatives and friends wouldn't dream to spending > a penny on my > lifelong efforts, believing that it is their due - > Since they are blood relatives, they do believe they have > a right to > ownership, even if I send about 10 yrs and trace us my to > Mary > Magdalena. > > What to do in my case ? Vera > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi - I pulled a few more books down from my shelf and see the same again: Alexander Solzhenitsyn has a copyright for his original work. The translator Michael Glenny also has a copyright for his translation (into English). Publisher Bodley Head (holds no copyright) >From another book: Wilfried Strik-Strikfeld has his copyright to his history. The translator David Footman also has a copyright to his translation into English. Publisher MacMillan (holds no copyright) I suppose it all boils down to money: who pays whom and what the conditions are in the contract and the small print at the bottom. Russian books are usually festooned with 3 copyrights: - author + publisher + academic institute. Pleve's books in Russian have 3 copyrights (but not his charts). I R Pleve (author) + International society of German culture (probably sponsors) + Publisher (Gotik in this case.) Vera Beljakova-Miller Vera

Vera, I sent the message below to you alone. It was not sent to the list. It wasn't meant to be published publicly, to everyone on the list, with access from everyone on the web. Please respect this boundary in the future. To the list, I apologize. This particular note was for Vera only. Carla Of course, if you write/ publish a book, it's your work and you are entitiled to protect it.... I do the same but on a much more modest level, just a few articles here and there, since i now write for amusement, not income. I was once a very prolific journalist, but the copyright was held by my newspaper publishers, mainly Sunday Times and management magazines, travel magazine, and such - but in SA the payment for freelance articles or reprints was/is minute, barely enough for a pizza a bottle of wine...so I don't bother, as you said, there are more important things in life to get on with. I'm now heavy into community activities, residents' associations, planning committess, inner city rejuvenation workshops, enviroment, heritage, leading objections against commercial creep into heritage sites and residential areas, strip developments along roads, preserving trees, etc. do newsletters. all free, all voluntary work. I volunteered for one committee, but within a year or so, it all ballooned out of control and I am occupried now full time - I promised myself to do it for a year or 2, and if I am not successful or I am not making a difference, I'll resign and find another outlet where i can me more useful. Go bless you, Love Vera ----- Original Message ------ From:Carla Wills-Brandon Sent:Sunday, August 05, 2007 18:09 To:Vera Beljakova atacama@global.co.za; Subject:Re: [GV] translation copyright / Russian method. This means that the publisher, who had the original copyright, because they paid to publish and most likely distribute the original book, eventually signed the copyright over to the author. The author, the author's family or some representative of the author's interests, or the author's estate's interest, then sold the copyright or gave the copyright to the translator. A translator cannot, in any country, just take a piece of work, translate it and claim the copyright without legal discussion with someone. As usual, your dislike for me is coming through loud and clear. Every single time I post something, every single time, you do this. I hope you enjoyed the book I sent to you. I never received a thank-you. Only complaints. Look at that book. The original published initially owned the Copyright. The Copyright was then given to me. I have other Copyrights to my books and the translations were given or sold to the publishers in other countries who requested the rights for this. The translators were contracted to translate and were paid. All work I publish, yes Vera, I even publish very factual work, with numbers and dates, holds a Copyright. Organizations, Universities, Publishers, who have contracted me to do the work, often hold the copyright. That's right Vera - Universities! Blessings to you Vera, Carla Vera Beljakova <atacama@global.co.za> wrote: Hi - I pulled a few more books down from my shelf and see the same again: Alexander Solzhenitsyn has a copyright for his original work. The translator Michael Glenny also has a copyright for his translation (into English). Publisher Bodley Head (holds no copyright) >From another book: Wilfried Strik-Strikfeld has his copyright to his history. The translator David Footman also has a copyright to his translation into English. Publisher MacMillan (holds no copyright) I suppose it all boils down to money: who pays whom and what the conditions are in the contract and the small print at the bottom. Russian books are usually festooned with 3 copyrights: - author + publisher + academic institute. Pleve's books in Russian have 3 copyrights (but not his charts). I R Pleve (author) + International society of German culture (probably sponsors) + Publisher (Gotik in this case.) Vera Beljakova-Miller Vera ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip! Carla Wills-Brandon, Ph.D. www.carlawillsbrandon.com Death is just a bus stop before the next trip!

I wonder if some here feel that others are making a lot of money off "selling" genealogy information like census and charts and such? Most people who put up websites do it at their own cost. No one pays them for that. Not to mention their time to do it. You have to have some "thick skin" sometime to do it. I just ignore the rudes one or if I'm having a bad day I tell them "DON'T LOOK AT IT". But the bottom line for me anyway is, I have met a lot of friends because of my websites and these Lists. The few rude ones I just forget, they are not worth the time. As for census record being sold. The person spends hundreds of dollars just to get a copy of the census. Then they spend hundreds of dollars to translate them. Then they spend hundreds of hours compiling them so they can be read. Then they lastly spend hours binding them for presentation. Rarely if ever do they get a portion of their money back and certainly nothing for their time. So why do these people do it? It is a misconception to believe they are making big (or even a little) money at it. I would suspect the same thing is true of Charts being purchaced. I have never purchaced a chart so I don't really know. So why do they do this?...Can't be for fun and the people they meet...can it? Darryl Boyd Village Cordinator for Leichtling check it out! www.boydhouse.com/leichtling www.leichtling.com