The question is did the Manifesto from Catherine, with modifications from Czar's that ruled after her, and the Instruktion mean that Germans were considered "citizens", or just foreigners living in the country?  The fact that German's were drafted in the Russian armed services doesn't mean they were citizens.  Even in this country, non-citizens have been drafted into the US Army, as seen during the Vietnam War If you think you read that the German's were citizens of Russia, where did you read it? As for descendants of GR's going to Russia and not being able to leave, my question is how could Russian authorities possibly know that someone was related to a GR leaving Russia without permission.  First, they don't have genealogy information connecting descendants to GR's.  Why would anyone go to Russia and go to authorities telling them their ancestors left without permission? Gary Martens ----- Original Message ---- From: Rosemary Larson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:03:22 PM Subject: [GV] Russian "citizen" question The U.S. constitution was written for the express purpose to do away with kings, czars, etc. Today other countries also have citizens but in earlier times people were "subjects" of whomever was in the ruling class of the various countries, principalities, etc.. Rosemary Larson AHSGR VC ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That list would have included the nobility from the Baltic provinces of what is now Estonia and Latvia with a few from Lithuania and the region in and around St. Petersburg. However, I also wondered why there were some villages which were more isolated than others or which were settled according to who lived closest to the church; that is the early schoolhouse. You can figure that one out for yourselves. Where does the leadership come from in AHSGR and GRHS? By the time of the emigration to other countries (many of course stayed behind) there was quite a mixture but certain families only wanted their children to marry people from their own village or from certain families in other villages. I also suspect that the "peasants" and other classes were not all "peasants" either. Horst > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:05:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > > "From Catherine to Khruschev", > > These had, as we saw earlier, their own system of local government since their founding. > Each village elected a Schulz to govern the village and a group of neighboring villages > elected an Oberschulz to govern the district. Both were supervised by a body of officials > appointed by the crown, the Kontor of the Tutelkanzlei in Saratov and the Fuersorgekomitee > in Odessa. The whole local government operation was conducted in the German language, > according to the customs of the colonists and the regulations of the "Instruktion" of the early > days, with occasional arbitrary interference by the supervising officials. On the whole, > although they had complaints now and then, the colonists were content with this system and > did not want a change. They were surprised, therefore, and unhappy, when on June 4, 1871, > a decree was issued which repealed the provisions of the colonist code regarding local > government, abolished the Kontor and the Fuersorgekomitee, and incorporated the German > colonies into the zemstvo organization set up by the legislation of 1864. In effect this decree > of 1871 was far-reaching: it abolished the special colonist status the Germans had enjoyed > up to this time and pulled them down to a basis of equality with the Russian peasants. > > In January 1874, they were considered Russian subjects: > > "in January 1874, a new military service law came into force which made all medically fit male > Russian subjects, when they reached the age of 20, subject to army service for six years. > There were exemptions for only sons and for such as were the sole support of minor brothers > and sisters; the term of service was shortened for those with certain educational > qualifications; but for the first time all classes of the population received the same treatment. > The number needed each year to fill the ranks were chosen by lot from among all those > subject to the draft." > > For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral > repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed > by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service > like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it. > > Note in the above paragraph "All other Russian citizens". > > Gary Martens > > > > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this > may > > be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal > > change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to > > conscription. > > > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > > Russia. > > > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" > finds > > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > > Christian Clergy 2,470 > > Honored Citizens 14,833 > > Merchants 11,768 > > City Workers 324,471 > > Peasants 1,266,102 > > Others 128,857 > > > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were > mostly > > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > > > Then we find this statement: > > > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II > and > > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to > military > > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > > > Then later we find this statement: > > > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > > the Index. > > > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > > figure it out. > > > > Gary Martens > > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > > "subject'. > > > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Nov 2, 2010, at 3:53:11 PM, [email protected] wrote: The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG men?became subject to conscription. ? Bill Pickelhaupt ====== It appears that there were different levels of citizenship in Russia.  All of my Frueauf ancestors are omitted from both the Norka census of 1834 and 1857 which were census reports of the German colonists.  It is well known that there were a number of the members of the Frueauf family living in Norka at that time because there are many listings of various members of the family in the church book baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths.  Brent Mai in checking his translations of these two census reports, assured me that none of the members of the Frueauf family were listed.  Later he found a reference to them and a few others as German nationals. The first of the Fureauf family to come to the Volga region was Carl Jacob Frueauf who came as a Lutheran minister and was not an original colonist.  Brent and I are both still curious as to how many others were not counted in the Norka census reports of 1834 and 1857 and why. In 1998, while visiting some distant relatives who had left Russia and moved to Germany, I asked how the German government knew that they were German.  I was told that when they were born, their Russian passports were stamped "German."   It would appear that even today the descendants of the original German colonists are still considered German colonists rather than Russian citizens. Ruth Schultz

>From what I've read and been told, the Germans who came to Russia did not become citizens of Russia, did not have to join the Russian Orthodox, and their sons would not be drafted into the Russian Army. As with America's promises to the Indians, the czars changed over time and so did the rules. My children's ancestors came to the US when 14-year-old boys were going to be Drafted into the Russian Army. Soooo, they probably were "subjects" and not citizens. Darnell ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Zitzer" <[email protected]> To: "frank jacobs" <[email protected]> Cc: "List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > >> I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to >> become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign >> potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other >> grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the >> Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances >> toward Grandmother Catherine. >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) >> http://www.pctools.com/ >> ======= >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1209 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

My family is Volga-German. A number of years ago, one of my Volga-German, Canadian-born cousins wanted to visit Russia. At that time this person was told that she, a descendant of Volga-Germans was considered a Russian citizen, and as such may not be allowed to leave Russia once she entered because her ancestor did not have proper permission to leave. Cathy Hawinkels Volmer VC -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths I suspect that "settler" was just a different translation of the word "colonist", but they were still considered citizens. Men were normally drafted in the Fall after their 21st birthday, and they typically served 3 or 4 years. Gary Martens

"From Catherine to Khruschev", These had, as we saw earlier, their own system of local government since their founding. Each village elected a Schulz to govern the village and a group of neighboring villages elected an Oberschulz to govern the district. Both were supervised by a body of officials appointed by the crown, the Kontor of the Tutelkanzlei in Saratov and the Fuersorgekomitee in Odessa. The whole local government operation was conducted in the German language, according to the customs of the colonists and the regulations of the "Instruktion" of the early days, with occasional arbitrary interference by the supervising officials. On the whole, although they had complaints now and then, the colonists were content with this system and did not want a change. They were surprised, therefore, and unhappy, when on June 4, 1871, a decree was issued which repealed the provisions of the colonist code regarding local government, abolished the Kontor and the Fuersorgekomitee, and incorporated the German colonies into the zemstvo organization set up by the legislation of 1864. In effect this decree of 1871 was far-reaching: it abolished the special colonist status the Germans had enjoyed up to this time and pulled them down to a basis of equality with the Russian peasants. In January 1874, they were considered Russian subjects: "in January 1874, a new military service law came into force which made all medically fit male Russian subjects, when they reached the age of 20, subject to army service for six years. There were exemptions for only sons and for such as were the sole support of minor brothers and sisters; the term of service was shortened for those with certain educational qualifications; but for the first time all classes of the population received the same treatment. The number needed each year to fill the ranks were chosen by lot from among all those subject to the draft." For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it. Note in the above paragraph "All other Russian citizens". Gary Martens > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may > be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal > change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to > conscription. > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > Russia. > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > Christian Clergy 2,470 > Honored Citizens 14,833 > Merchants 11,768 > City Workers 324,471 > Peasants 1,266,102 > Others 128,857 > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > Then we find this statement: > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > Then later we find this statement: > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > the Index. > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > figure it out. > > Gary Martens > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > "subject'. > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > Sally > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > ======= > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------- End of forwarded message -------

I suspect that "settler" was just a different translation of the word "colonist", but they were still considered citizens. Men were normally drafted in the Fall after their 21st birthday, and they typically served 3 or 4 years. Gary Martens > > I have an originalRussian document that I have had transcribed into English. It > belonged to my husband's grandfather, Andreas Nussbaum,who came from > Louis (Otrogovka) Russia to America (first Hays, Kansas and later Hugo, > Colorado) in 1908. It shows he was drafted and entered the service on January > 1 1905 and was discharged to the reserves on December 10 1907.He was > released as a reservist for the duration until the year 1923 and could be recalled > if war broke out. He served in the Drogitin Reserve Infantry Regiment No. 191. > It also shows him as a "settler." It also mentions that "according to > hisresidence permit he is not fit for service." Other interesting information is > included in the 15 page document. > > So if labeled a settler in 1905-1908, one might think he wasn't considered a > citizen of Russia? > > Nancy Nusbaum > > > > From: William Pickelhaupt <[email protected]> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 3:48:31 PM > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be > semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made > in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to conscription. > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > Russia. > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > Christian Clergy 2,470 > Honored Citizens 14,833 > Merchants 11,768 > City Workers 324,471 > Peasants 1,266,102 > Others 128,857 > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > Then we find this statement: > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > Then later we find this statement: > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > the Index. > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > figure it out. > > Gary Martens > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > "subject'. > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > Sally > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > ======= > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of Russia. Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": Hereditary Nobility 24,854 Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 Christian Clergy 2,470 Honored Citizens 14,833 Merchants 11,768 City Workers 324,471 Peasants 1,266,102 Others 128,857 I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly Peasants and probably some Merchants. Then we find this statement: "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. Then later we find this statement: "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all regions had come together for such a meeting." Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in the Index. I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to figure it out. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have my father's naturalization certificate and it says "former nationality, German." He was born in Germany in 1913 after my grandparents left Norka, Russia. The certificate was issued in 1938 when I was 5. I remember waiting in the car with my mother for him when he was attending citizenship classes. I'm assuming that he and my grandfather became citizens at the same time, because they have same necktie on in their citizenship photos. Sadly, I don't have a copy of my grandfather's naturalization certificate. Marven Weitzel On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 13:22:24 -0500 "Judith" <[email protected]> writes: > My GGGrandfathers' says the same on the Naturalization Cert. They > needed to > be in the US for at least 5 yrs and then 1 yr. in the State where > they lived > and intended on staying permanently here. Did they have to take a > test like > now????? Anyone > > Judith > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of S. Zitzer > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:55 AM > To: frank jacobs > Cc: List > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I > have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a > "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose > from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" > and left > "subject'. > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May > 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia > but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent > to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any > foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The > other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar > of the > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and > allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cd0705ed5b8252c6m05duc

I have an original Russian document that I have had transcribed into English.  It belonged to my husband's grandfather, Andreas Nussbaum, who came from Louis (Otrogovka) Russia to America (first Hays, Kansas and later Hugo, Colorado) in 1908.  It shows he was drafted and entered the service on January 1 1905 and was discharged to the reserves on December 10 1907. He was released as a reservist for the duration until the year 1923 and could be recalled if war broke out.   He served in the Drogitin Reserve Infantry Regiment No. 191.  It also shows him as a "settler."   It also mentions that "according to his residence permit he is not fit for service."  Other interesting information is included in the 15 page document. So if labeled a settler in 1905-1908, one might think he wasn't considered a citizen of Russia? Nancy Nusbaum   ________________________________ From: William Pickelhaupt <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 3:48:31 PM Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG men became subject to conscription.   Bill Pickelhaupt --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of Russia. Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists.  Searching for the word "citizen" finds several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": Hereditary Nobility 24,854 Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 Christian Clergy 2,470 Honored Citizens 14,833 Merchants 11,768 City Workers 324,471 Peasants 1,266,102 Others 128,857 I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region.  They were mostly Peasants and probably some Merchants. Then we find this statement: "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. Then later we find this statement: "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all regions had come together for such a meeting." Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in the Index. I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to figure it out. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > >    My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > >    You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen.  I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate.  It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia.  They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > >    This was in Portland, Oregon.  His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > >    It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > >     Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > >             Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire.  The other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > Russian Empire.  Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > > >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG men became subject to conscription.   Bill Pickelhaupt --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of Russia. Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists.  Searching for the word "citizen" finds several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": Hereditary Nobility 24,854 Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 Christian Clergy 2,470 Honored Citizens 14,833 Merchants 11,768 City Workers 324,471 Peasants 1,266,102 Others 128,857 I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region.  They were mostly Peasants and probably some Merchants. Then we find this statement: "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. Then later we find this statement: "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all regions had come together for such a meeting." Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in the Index. I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to figure it out. Gary Martens Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > >    My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > >    You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen.  I have a > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate.  It doesn't say > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia.  They crossed out "citizen" and left > "subject'. > >    This was in Portland, Oregon.  His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > >    It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > rather a "subject" of Russia. > >     Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > >             Sally > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire.  The other > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > Russian Empire.  Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My GGGrandfathers' says the same on the Naturalization Cert. They needed to be in the US for at least 5 yrs and then 1 yr. in the State where they lived and intended on staying permanently here. Did they have to take a test like now????? Anyone Judith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S. Zitzer Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:55 AM To: frank jacobs Cc: List Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left "subject'. This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but rather a "subject" of Russia. Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? Sally On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Published in the Yakima Herald Republic 11-02-2010 Frieda C. Brulotte - nee EICHLER, 96 of Yakima died Sunday. Mrs Brulotte was born in Odessa, Washington. She was an insurance agency bookkeeper for many years. Survivors include her sons Lewis G. Brunhaver and Richard "Skip" Brunhaver both of Bellevue, WA; a sister Lenora Annabel of Ephrata, WA.; a brother Richard Eichler of Mercer Island, WA.; and two step sons Thomas Brulotte and Lyle Brulotte, both of Yakima, WA. Graveside services will be at 11 a.m. Saturday in Terrace Heights Memorial Park Cemetery. Memorial service will follow at 1:00 p.m. Saturday at the Terrace Heights Presbyterian Church. Keith and Keith Furneral Home in charge of the arrangements. Note: Frieda was a founding member of the Central Washington Chapter of Germans from Russia; a life member of the American Historical Society of Germans from Russia. Her father was born in Neu Denhoef, Russia and her mother who was a Borgens was born in Frank, Russia.

My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left "subject'. This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but rather a "subject" of Russia. Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? Sally On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Please, Please, Please, Lets not bring up politics, healthcare, etc. to GV. Limit only to our GV heritage and helping each other in that endeavor. Thank You, Neil D. Nusz(s)

I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances toward Grandmother Catherine. ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) http://www.pctools.com/ =======

Sally, >From what I have been able to determine that the immigrants took an oath similar to this when they arrived at St. Petersburg: The OATH in part states: "I, the below named, pledge and swear to Almighty God that I will and shall be to the Most Serene, the most Supreme and Mighty Great Lady and Empress EKATERINA ALEXEEEVNA, Autocrat of all the Russias, and Her Imperial Majesty's beloved son, the Crown-Prince and Grand-Duke PAUL PETROVICH, as the lawful legitimate Successor to the Throne of the Russian Empire, a loyal and obedient servant, and in additon to be faithful and responsible to/for my family as long as I find myself in the said highest place, as also it is published under the date of 22 July 1763 and contained in the Manifesto, and that I do not go or step beyond the limits of Her Imperial Majesty's highest will and command. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . All this I will and must loyally adhere to, so help me God in body and soul, through the help of Jesus Christ. Amen." Rosemary Larson AHSGR VC Kamenka & Pfeifer ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 3:07 PM Subject: [GV] when did the Germans on the Volga become citizens? I am corresponding (email) with a second cousin who is Russian, Igor Zitzer. He asked me about the citizenship of our relatives. His own father Viktor Zitzer died when he was only 9. I never thought to ask that question before. Did our ancestors automatically become Russian citizens when they settled on the Volga? Thanks, Sally Zitzer Edmonds, WA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is this the right place for a discussion on health care????????? Please relate discussion to the web site. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: November-01-10 5:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 380 Today's Topics: 1. when did the Germans on the Volga become citizens? ([email protected]) 2. Re: FW: FW: Spread the Word (Darnell Dingle) 3. Re: FW: FW: Spread the Word (Anthony Cassarino) 4. Re: FW: FW: Spread the Word (Darnell Dingle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:07:15 -0700 (PDT) From: [email protected] Subject: [GV] when did the Germans on the Volga become citizens? To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am corresponding (email) with a second cousin who is Russian, Igor Zitzer. He asked me about the citizenship of our relatives. His own father Viktor Zitzer died when he was only 9. I never thought to ask that question before. Did our ancestors automatically become Russian citizens when they settled on the Volga? Thanks, Sally Zitzer Edmonds, WA ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:36 -0500 From: "Darnell Dingle" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word To: "Horst Gutsche" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="original" Health care is never FREE! You are paying for it with much higher taxes than we pay in the US with fewer choices and longer wait times to get needed surgery. Those of us in the US with insurance have WORKED all of our lives for coverage through an employer or now Medicare. A Registered Nurse in the US ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Gutsche" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:10 AM Subject: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > Please strike the word Bessarabian from all of the emails that you forward > and state Germans from Eastern Europe via Switzerland and PA. Alberta > Health Care is free for people who reside here for at least a certain part > of the year. > > Horst > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:55 -0600 >> Subject: [GV] FW: Spread the Word >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> Actually Canadian Health Care is really great and here in Alberta it is >> free. >> >> Horst >> >> > From: [email protected] >> > To: [email protected] >> > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:41:33 -0600 >> > Subject: [GV] Spread the Word >> > >> > >> > President Obama is related to about half of the Bessarabian Germans and >> > to a lot of the Swiss through his great-grandmother Goodnight >> > (Gutknecht). I don't agree with abortion but perhaps only certain >> > places in the USA should be designated as such sites and then the >> > people who are for it can pay for the airplane tickets! >> > >> > A Friend from Up North >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:01:15 -0700 From: Anthony Cassarino <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" why are you discussing health care when this is a Volga German website???? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:36 -0500 > Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > Health care is never FREE! You are paying for it with much higher taxes than > we pay in the US with fewer choices and longer wait times to get needed > surgery. Those of us in the US with insurance have WORKED all of our lives > for coverage through an employer or now Medicare. A Registered Nurse in the > US > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horst Gutsche" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:10 AM > Subject: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > > > > > Please strike the word Bessarabian from all of the emails that you forward > > and state Germans from Eastern Europe via Switzerland and PA. Alberta > > Health Care is free for people who reside here for at least a certain part > > of the year. > > > > Horst > > > >> From: [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:55 -0600 > >> Subject: [GV] FW: Spread the Word > >> > >> > >> Hi again, > >> > >> Actually Canadian Health Care is really great and here in Alberta it is > >> free. > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > From: [email protected] > >> > To: [email protected] > >> > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:41:33 -0600 > >> > Subject: [GV] Spread the Word > >> > > >> > > >> > President Obama is related to about half of the Bessarabian Germans and > >> > to a lot of the Swiss through his great-grandmother Goodnight > >> > (Gutknecht). I don't agree with abortion but perhaps only certain > >> > places in the USA should be designated as such sites and then the > >> > people who are for it can pay for the airplane tickets! > >> > > >> > A Friend from Up North > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 19:33:26 -0500 From: "Darnell Dingle" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word To: "Anthony Cassarino" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" One does wonder, but I didn't start it, just commented. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Cassarino To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:01 PM Subject: RE: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word why are you discussing health care when this is a Volga German website???? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:36 -0500 > Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > Health care is never FREE! You are paying for it with much higher taxes than > we pay in the US with fewer choices and longer wait times to get needed > surgery. Those of us in the US with insurance have WORKED all of our lives > for coverage through an employer or now Medicare. A Registered Nurse in the > US > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horst Gutsche" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:10 AM > Subject: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > > > > > Please strike the word Bessarabian from all of the emails that you forward > > and state Germans from Eastern Europe via Switzerland and PA. Alberta > > Health Care is free for people who reside here for at least a certain part > > of the year. > > > > Horst > > > >> From: [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:55 -0600 > >> Subject: [GV] FW: Spread the Word > >> > >> > >> Hi again, > >> > >> Actually Canadian Health Care is really great and here in Alberta it is > >> free. > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > From: [email protected] > >> > To: [email protected] > >> > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:41:33 -0600 > >> > Subject: [GV] Spread the Word > >> > > >> > > >> > President Obama is related to about half of the Bessarabian Germans and > >> > to a lot of the Swiss through his great-grandmother Goodnight > >> > (Gutknecht). I don't agree with abortion but perhaps only certain > >> > places in the USA should be designated as such sites and then the > >> > people who are for it can pay for the airplane tickets! > >> > > >> > A Friend from Up North > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ------------------------------ To contact the GER-VOLGA list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the GER-VOLGA mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 380 *****************************************

One does wonder, but I didn't start it, just commented. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Cassarino To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:01 PM Subject: RE: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word why are you discussing health care when this is a Volga German website???? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:36 -0500 > Subject: Re: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > Health care is never FREE! You are paying for it with much higher taxes than > we pay in the US with fewer choices and longer wait times to get needed > surgery. Those of us in the US with insurance have WORKED all of our lives > for coverage through an employer or now Medicare. A Registered Nurse in the > US > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horst Gutsche" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:10 AM > Subject: [GV] FW: FW: Spread the Word > > > > > > Please strike the word Bessarabian from all of the emails that you forward > > and state Germans from Eastern Europe via Switzerland and PA. Alberta > > Health Care is free for people who reside here for at least a certain part > > of the year. > > > > Horst > > > >> From: [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:55 -0600 > >> Subject: [GV] FW: Spread the Word > >> > >> > >> Hi again, > >> > >> Actually Canadian Health Care is really great and here in Alberta it is > >> free. > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > From: [email protected] > >> > To: [email protected] > >> > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:41:33 -0600 > >> > Subject: [GV] Spread the Word > >> > > >> > > >> > President Obama is related to about half of the Bessarabian Germans and > >> > to a lot of the Swiss through his great-grandmother Goodnight > >> > (Gutknecht). I don't agree with abortion but perhaps only certain > >> > places in the USA should be designated as such sites and then the > >> > people who are for it can pay for the airplane tickets! > >> > > >> > A Friend from Up North > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1208 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Thank you Rosemary! Could you tell us where you found this? I have some books about the Volga Germans but don't remember seeing this discussed. I'll have to check some of them. Sally On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, Rosemary Larson wrote: > Sally, > > From what I have been able to determine that the immigrants took an oath > similar to this when they arrived at St. Petersburg: > > The OATH in part states: > > "I, the below named, pledge and swear to Almighty God that I will and > shall be to the Most Serene, the most Supreme and Mighty Great Lady > and Empress EKATERINA ALEXEEEVNA, Autocrat of all the Russias, > and Her Imperial Majesty's beloved son, the Crown-Prince and > Grand-Duke PAUL PETROVICH, as the lawful legitimate Successor > to the Throne of the Russian Empire, a loyal and obedient servant, > and in additon to be faithful and responsible to/for my family as long > as I find myself in the said highest place, as also it is published > under the date of 22 July 1763 and contained in the Manifesto, and > that I do not go or step beyond the limits of Her Imperial Majesty's > highest will and command. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > All this I will and must loyally adhere to, so help me God in body > and soul, through the help of Jesus Christ. Amen." > > Rosemary Larson > AHSGR VC Kamenka & Pfeifer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 3:07 PM > Subject: [GV] when did the Germans on the Volga become citizens? > > > > > I am corresponding (email) with a second cousin who is Russian, > Igor Zitzer. He asked me about the citizenship of our relatives. > His own father Viktor Zitzer died when he was only 9. I never > thought to ask that question before. Did our ancestors automatically > become Russian citizens when they settled on the Volga? > > Thanks, > > Sally Zitzer > Edmonds, WA > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >