In a message dated 3/29/02 12:46:33 AM, cshed888@bigpond.com writes: << i made the decision that any marriage that ended in divorce & no kids , i would leave out , but those that had kids , the ist marriages would be included. >> Sheila: I have relatives who were married and never had children and sometimes they married two or three different men. What would you do then, just show the men/women as staying single? I put it all in unless asked not to. Ergo, I have one cousin whose oldest daughter, born a number of years before her marriage to her second huband, is shown as a daughter of the current husband. One woman wanted her children by a previous marriage shown so I put them in since they won't show up on the family genealogy I will be doing. Why would we be interested in non-family members? I also show adopted people as say, John Doe*, in my records which will go down that person's line to indicate no blood relationship. Best, Sandi

Hello all, I have hit so many dead ends since 1985!! I cannot find, where Thomas came from in Ireland. He came to the USA in the early 1800s, between 1804 when he was born to 1835 when his son was born in NY. I have not been able to find out when or where he came from. I know he was in Wayne County, New York in 1835 to 1840 when his kids were born. That is all I know. There does not seem to be any records in Wayne County, that I am aware of, left for me to search. I am open to any suggestions. Thanks, Kathy Gold 1 Thomas Murray b: Abt. 1804 in Ireland d: 12-21-1864 in Sterling, Whiteside County, Illinois Emigration: Bet. 1805 - 1835 Came from Ireland .. married Sarah Turner b: Abt. 1808 in Sodus, Wayne County, New York m: Abt. 1834 in New York d: 5-20-1854 in Sterling, Whiteside County, Illinois .........2 Hiram Judson Murray b: 9-1835 in Wayne County, New York d: 1-30-1904 in Beaman, Grundy County, Iowa ............. married Nancy Dew b: Abt. 1842 in Ohio m: 8-27-1865 in Tama County, Iowa d: Abt. 1874 in Beaman Iowa .........2 Sarah Lucinda Murray b: 3-30-1837 in Sodus, Wayne County, New York d: in Barron, Wisconsin ............. married Jonathan Franklin Coe b: 6-22-1819 in Rush, Monroe County, New York m: 3-30-1862 d: 11-23-1885 in Rolla, Phelps County, Missouri (Vichey Springs) Emigration: 1838 Emigrated with his parents to Whiteside County, Illinois .........2 Maryann R. Murray b: Abt. 1847 in Illinois ............. married Ebenezer B. Rice m: 2-9-1869 in Sterling, Whiteside County, Illinois .........2 Jonathan F. Murray b: 7-14-1853 in Illinois d: 11-27-1860 in Sterling, Whiteside County, Illinois

Sue, I have one other suggestion to add to Cheryl's very comprehensive list. Look for birth records of his children. I couldn't find where my grandmother was born until I check all six of her children's birth records in MA. His death certificate should have said where he was born also. Hope this helps. Sandy

>Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 >From: "Dennis Reiter" <dni@imt.net> >Subject: [GEN~TIPS] divorce question > >Hello, >I am making a family tree booklet and am having some questions on how to >deal with a divorce in the family. My brother and his first wife divorced >over twenty years ago. His sons from this marriage are grown. My brother is >remarried and has children from his present marriage. My booklet has a >page on each family member. My question is, how do I show the information >for both of my brother's marriages? I don't want to offend my present >sister-in-law, I also don't want to offend my nephews from the first >marriage by not listing their mother. Is there a proper way of doing this? >Thank you, >Dennis Dennis, I suggest that you include both families. You obviously don't want to exclude either one, expecially since both had children, and rightly so. As far as the information on each brother's page, just label one First Wife and label the other Second Wife, and fill out everything completely, even though there will be some duplication. You can make a note on each that there was a previous or subsequent marriage. Just be matter-of-fact. If you're making the booklet yourself, you can set up the physical booklet exactly as you wish. If you're filling out a preprinted booklet, do this: Make a photocopy of the brother's page (while it is still blank). Fill out the printed page with his first marriage. Fill out the copy of the page with his 2nd marriage. Then tip it in, which means DON'T USE SCOTCH TAPE. Carefully run a thin bead of white glue along the edge that will go in, and carefully place it in against the book spine right after the brother's first marriage page, or soon thereafter. Just in case you get a little trace of glue on some other page, place a sheet of waxed paper on either side of the photocopy so it won't stick to the pages it is inbetween. The waxed paper will be easier to remove from a dried glue spot than another page would be. Close the booklet, lay it down on a flat place with a couple of books on top to press it all together, and leave it like that for a day. If your preprinted booklet has a plastic comb binding, you can't do this, so just brush on a light strip of white glue to the inner edge of a page and place the brother's 2nd marriage there. Lay a strip of waxed paper over and press. Don't use rubber cement because it is acidic, and will turn yellow in time. Always use archival non-acidic paper, even 100% rag if you can. Cheryl Wray, jw90013@navix.net

>Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 >From: NGroves@aol.com >Subject: [GEN~TIPS] Ancestral catch-22 > >I recently attempted to obtain the death certificate for my husband's >great-grandfather. I know when and where he was born and died, but nothing >about his parents. I was hoping to learn their names from the death >certificate. However, I was informed that without knowing his mother's maiden >name and, preferably, the father's name as well, the search could not be >performed. Since that's what I was trying to find out, I'm stuck. He lived >from 1810 or 1812 to 1902. What other records or information sources might be >useful in locating his parents? Would any census records from the early 1800s >list the complete family? I already know that there were many families in the >area with the same or similar surname, so just finding someone with the same >name is not a guarantee of kinship. > >I've thought about looking for an obituary but am not sure where to request a >lookup or search. He lived in New Jersey, and I'm in Georgia, so it would be >next to impossible for me to do any research in libraries or county offices >in the county where he lived. > >I'd appreciate any suggestions on where else to look to trace this family >back another generation. > >Nancy Groves Nancy, I would definitely look for him in the censuses. In 1850 when everyone's names began to be recorded, he'd be about 40, and his mother might be about 60 to 70, if she was living. Many widowed mothers lived with their children, so his could be living with him or one of his brothers or sisters, and if not, look in 1860. The census would also give a clue as to both parents' birthplaces (although sometimes one census doesn't agree with another one). In fact, I would write down every family in the area in 1850 with the same or similiar name, & try to trace each individual through the censuses. A bit time consuming, but you could at least eliminate some people, and narrow down your search, and you might find some interesting info. I was able to infer (but not yet prove) who the parents were of one ancestor by doing this. You can also go backward to previous censuses. Even though they don't give names, they indicate how many were in the family (not necessarily all were related) and you can deduce things from them. You could also join a surname list, or an area list. New Jersey has county lists, and you can ask questions; often the list owner is very knowledgeable. Go to RootsWeb for this. Your husband's great-grandparent's marriage record may list their parents. Also, engaged couples had to post banns in those days. Sometimes the adult who guarantees the wedding will occur is a parent. Baptismal records would also list parents. Their gravestone might, and nearby gravestones may be relatives. Their obituaries may name the parents, or surviving siblings, and the siblings' obituaries may also name the parents. Whatever county your h's ggp lived in, find out what records they have in the courthouse. Everton's Handybook for Genealogists gives this info for every county in every state, and most public libraries have it. It has gone through at least 8 editions. Newspapers would have information, and by 1880 are very gossipy. They may be on microfilm and available to interlibrary loan through your local public library. New Jersey may not have been able to look for the death certificate because the state didn't start keeping official death records until well after 1902 probably. I can't find my list right now (anyway it's old and outdated), but the US Government Printing Office (probably still) publishes a list of how to find birth, marriage, & death records for each state, where to write, what years records started being kept. It's very useful, and cheap. You can send for it from Pueblo, Colo. I don't know the address. There's probably a Web site for government publications. To find what records can be sent for from NJ, do some research at your public or college library, and on the Internet. Look for the NJ State Archives, the State Historical Society, the county historical and genealogical societies. Get county courthouse addresses and phones. I read once that NJ is hard to get info from, but maybe they've improved since then. Cheryl Wray, jw90013@navix.net

>Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 >From: GrannyMc@aol.com >Subject: [GEN~TIPS] Ward & King ca 1800 > >Does anyone have any knowledge of how you go about finding an ancestor that >came from Holland or Germany around the 1800s. It has been passed down in >the family that my gggrandmother was from one of these countries. She died >in GA, I believe in Richmond Co. but did live in Columbia Co., GA for a >while. I only know the last name and don't have her father or mothers names. > They may have live at some time in SC but She and my gggrandfather were >married in Augusta, GA in 1830 and I believe she was quite young. >Would appreciate any tips that would help me over this brick wall. >Beulah Beulah, Sorry to take so long to send a reply. Are you still looking for ideas? First, I'd look for her and her husband in the 1830 census, starting with Richmond Co. GA, and then Edgefield and Aiken Counties in South Carolina, just across the river from Augusta, since the young couple might have gone over just to get married, and then returned home. The 1830 Census Day was June 1, so if they were married before that, and were living on their own, you should find them living as a married couple with the husband named as head of family. If they married after June 1, they won't show up in the federal census as a family unit until 1840. Since she died in Richmond Co., perhaps they spent most of their lives in that area, or had extended family there. If you can find the husband's parents, you may find the wife's family living nearby. They may also have attended the same church and, as children, have attended the same school. In fact, their families could have come together to settle in the area, either from somewhere else in the States (SC, NC, VA, NJ ?), or from overseas. Next, I'd see what LDS microfilm there is of Richmond County etc. records. Everton's Handy Book for Genealogists says that the Family History Library has microfilm of some marriage, cemetery, civil court, probate, land, and tax records for this county. Maybe there are church records. Other records may be housed with the state. (Unfortunately, Gen. Sherman may have come through Augusta on his march to the sea and burned the courthouse.) If the bride was very young, a father's consent might be with the marriage record, if the record still exists, although maybe some southern states allowed younger brides, so a consent wasn't necessary. I would look for any and all records over in South Carolina too. Tax and land records could place the husband there for whatever years he resided there. Voting lists are another thing to look for. If your gggrandmother's father died with a will, and it happened to mention her, that would be useful, so check probate records. Same with her mother. I assume their names were Ward and King? These don't sound Dutch or German, but English. Maybe the immigrant ancestor was Dutch or German & married a Ward or King. Maybe the name was changed, like from Koenig or Kaiser. You never know about things that were passed down in the family. It was passed down in mine that we were related to William Penn, but a book about him said he has no descendants so I think my ancestors probably just bought land from him. Family legends are often clues only. Finally, you could buy Georgia Genealogical Research, by George K. Schweitzer. He usually has lots of good ideas. There may be a similiar book by him or someone else on South Carolina. If you learn the history of how a state was settled, that can give you ideas on what to try next. Cheryl Wray, jw90013@navix.net

>> I am hoping some kind soul can make a suggestion on how to get past a >> block. I know my great grandfather's name was James Pope. He came from >> England to the US but I have no idea when or where from or where he >> landed on arrival. I don't know if he came alone as a young man or with >> family as a child? I find him in a Mo 1870 census listed as age 45, so I >> am estimating he was born around 1825. Now looking for James Pope has >> not been easy, and can anyone suggest any other records that might >> contain any information? I have his marriage record, and I know when he >> died although I do not know many other details. Any ideas? >> Thanks, >> Sue <dsfosse@shighway.com> The above query was posted Jan. 12 -- sorry to take so long to send this reply. I hope there are one or two useful thoughts for you. Are you looking only for James's immigration record, or other records too? Here are several ideas: 1. Join the Pope surname list, send it messages with all the details, and send for the Archived messages to see if anyone else is looking for your James. 2. A lot of Civil War soldiers were foreign-born and some soldiers who fought were in their 30s and 40s. Did the 1870 census identify James as a Civil War vet? If he was, try to get his service and pension record at the Nat'l Archives. The 1890 census of soldiers, sailors, and widows may also include him, even if his widow had remarried. 3. The Mo. State Hist. Soc. has newspapers on microfilm from the entire state. Old newspapers had much social news, like obituaries, marriages, family reunions, etc. Also see The Handy Book for Genealogists, by the Everton Publ. Co. for a list of what records are available for each county in Mo. Land and tax records can give you an idea how long he was there, and some Naturalization records are in the county courthouse. The National Archives has a branch in Kansas City. The Mo. State Genealogical Assoc. in Columbia and the State Archives in Jefferson City are great sources of information. 4. If he lived as long as 1900, you may find his birth month and year, and the year he immigrated listed in the federal census. 5. Many Mo. residents immigrated through the port of New Orleans, so if Ellis Island doesn't show him, don't give up; there are many other ports to check. A good website is the Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild, and also passenger lists at RootsWeb and other places. If you have access to a research or college library, you may be able to find Filby's Passenger & Immigration Lists Index, a huge annual compilation of sources. 6. Try the LDS site, FamilySearch.com . 7. Church records sometimes list parents, especially for births and marriages, especially Catholic and Lutheran who tended to keep careful records. Church records may also state where new members were transferring from, and where they transferred to. 8. Court records like probate and others are available on microfilm at LDS Family History centers. 9. Perhaps he came over as a criminal or as an apprentice, or an orphan. He might have immigrated through Canada, or was a British sailor who decided to stay here instead of sail back home. Cheryl Wray, jw90013@navix.net

Using the LDS library near you, search the British Immigration disk for 1881. Looking for James Pope

In reply to the question of how to handle a divorce. I would think that it would be offensive to leave out either family. Just because they divorced, they are no less family. The children of the first family are step siblings of the second family....again, family. Unless there was something really bad or horrible about the first divorce, or if for some reason the second family is not aware of the first family, a family page done with " just the facts" is nothing less than tasteful. You do not need to go into details of the divorce, just stating the fact that it occured should be enough. I have run into this problem in my own research, one gentleman was married once before, but there were no children. When he later married again, it really had no bearing on his current family and consequently this was never mentioned in front of the current children. When I becan my research, I talked to all members of the family. No less than two people told me about "the other woman" and all the messy details of how "unfemenine" she was! Heavens to Betsy, she rode a Harley! This was way back when! So to this day,I am told that they know nothing of her. I would not mention this in my history, because it really has no bearing , so listing it would not help anyone . In this type of case, I would leave it out. I hope this helps you to decide. Sincerely, Diane Eaton Hacker famlygeni@aol.com

Most Genealogy programs have a tab, or drop down that allows you to assort by spouse. Solves problem of divorce, by letting you have the present wife set as the default. See Ya! Richard GenTips-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Part 1.1Type: MHTML Document (message/rfc822) > > Part 1.2Type: MHTML Document (message/rfc822)

Hello, I am making a family tree booklet and am having some questions on how to deal with a divorce in the family. My brother and his first wife divorced over twenty years ago. His sons from this marriage are grown. My brother is remarried and has children from his present marriage. My booklet has a page on each family member. My question is, how do I show the information for both of my brother's marriages? I don't want to offend my present sister-in-law, I also don't want to offend my nephews from the first marriage by not listing their mother. Is there a proper way of doing this? Thank you, Dennis

Hello to the list. Two suggestions: Family History Centers sell, for one dollar, "Research Outline: United States." (I am assuming that you are in the U.S. If not, there are Research Outlines for other nations.) This has 58 pages on "types of records available" and what kind of information they usually have. You can also read the outline or download it, free, at <www.familysearch.org>. Considerably more pricey, but possibly available at your local public library: _The Source_, revised edition; Szucs & Luebking, eds. Ancestry Inc., Salt Lake City, 1997. This one is 834 pages and I think was about $50; a superb book, I think. I'll also mention the 50 individual state research outlines published by the Family History Library; also $1 each, but the length varies, for instance Pennsylvania is 33 pages and Montana is 7 pages. All of these are available at Family History Centers, by ordering online at <www.familysearch.org>, or can be downloaded free. There's an excellent outline on "Tracing Immigrant Origins," and another good one is on "U.S. Military Records." The outlines on England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Germany, France, etc., etc., are very good. Cheers, Dolly ==================================================== On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 PruittGenes@aol.com wrote: > Is there a book on the market that deals just with the types of records > available and what information they tend to contain? Something like this > would be very helpful to me and would appreciate any suggestions.

Is there a book on the market that deals just with the types of records available and what information they tend to contain? Something like this would be very helpful to me and would appreciate any suggestions. Mercedes Pruitt Researching: Grace, Pruitt, Cole, Perkins, Thoene, Lane, Lackey, Mitchem and Thacker

I recently attempted to obtain the death certificate for my husband's great-grandfather. I know when and where he was born and died, but nothing about his parents. I was hoping to learn their names from the death certificate. However, I was informed that without knowing his mother's maiden name and, preferably, the father's name as well, the search could not be performed. Since that's what I was trying to find out, I'm stuck. He lived from 1810 or 1812 to 1902. What other records or information sources might be useful in locating his parents? Would any census records from the early 1800s list the complete family? I already know that there were many families in the area with the same or similar surname, so just finding someone with the same name is not a guarantee of kinship. I've thought about looking for an obituary but am not sure where to request a lookup or search. He lived in New Jersey, and I'm in Georgia, so it would be next to impossible for me to do any research in libraries or county offices in the county where he lived. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where else to look to trace this family back another generation. Nancy Groves

Greetings from Colorado: I'm using Family Tree Maker (vs. 7) and have run across a situation where I found that 2 names I had were actually one in the same person. (Who knew that someone named Moritz would go by Fred!!) I've merged them successfully, but as both names had sources listed for birth info, I now have an "S" for source, and an "A" for alternate source. I can't figure out how to look at the alternate source and then once I've decided which one to keep, how to delete one of them. If I take out the S source, will the A source become the S source? And is any of this making sense to anyone out there? Let me know if you think you can help! Regards, Carol

I was wondering if anyone could do a lookup for me if they have Ancestry United Kingdom and Ireland Subscription? If so, please contact me at AOL. Hope it isn't cheating........lol ellen

<<Please revert to a backup (*.FBK) file>> Ted, I haven't had this problem, but it is telling you to go back and open your backup file. Normally, this is in your main drive. You pull down the file by going to the upper left hand part of the main screen where it says File: When you pull this down and you will see "open a family file". That will give you a little box and in it, you will see a line that tells asks you to name the file, under that is a space to indicate the type of file it is. Pull that down to say *.FBK. That will provide you with a rather small number of files to open, all of them will have the FBK at the end and be indicated by a square with red and black in it. Double click the one you want to open. That will take you back to the full FTM. The biggest problem you may have with this is that if you have closed your program, a new FBK was formed at that time. You probably won't be able to get back to the original one. The thing to remember is that if you open your FTM, and it says you shut down your computer without closing it, is that you need to pull up the old backup file to work from, instead of the current one. When you do that you can loose some recent entries that you put in. I hope this helps. Bettye

Hello, I just looked up someone on Ancestry.com in a Utah Cemetery Index. Under cemetery it says Af. This does not look like the name of a cemetery, and I cannot find such a cemetery on Utah sites. Does anyone have any ideas as to what this Af might mean? Any help will be much appreciated! LouDean

American Fork. ----- Original Message ----- From: <GeorgianMe@aol.com> To: <GenTips-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 10:20 PM Subject: [GEN~TIPS] cemetery question > Hello, > I just looked up someone on Ancestry.com in a Utah Cemetery Index. Under > cemetery it says Af. This does not look like the name of a cemetery, and I > cannot find such a cemetery on Utah sites. > Does anyone have any ideas as to what this Af might mean? > Any help will be much appreciated! > LouDean > > > ==== GenTips Mailing List ==== > All mail to the list must be addressed thusly; GENTIPS-L@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

In Family Tree Maker Vers. 9.0, I am trying to go to "Genealogy Report." However, I get the following: "The information in the specified file has been damaged and cannot be used. Please revert to a backup (*.FBK) file." Can anyone tell me how to correct this problem? Ted Halstead