He probably was an Iron Worker and the Iron Workers have a union. The union is now affiliated with the AFL-CIO and there is a webpage at http://www.diro.com/iabsoiw.htm JaneneSM@aol.com wrote: > I'm helping a friend try and find out information about her grandfather. He > built bridges all around the world. He was divorced from her grandmother who > didn't want to talk about him. When he retired the retirement home he live in > had a fire and his personal effects were burned. Does anyone know of anyplace > we might be able to find out about bridge builders? She thinks he was called > an iron worker. Thanks. Janene >

Yeah but that means you [take the option] have to route all messages to Personal Filing Cabinet; then it is best to go in and hoe/weed the stuff, so to decrease your HD load, especially the TOSSPAM. CEE

Thank you Cathy, This is really good. I appreciate it Marcia Moore Collins ALWAYS struggling with names! -----Original Message----- From: Bulls0729@aol.com <Bulls0729@aol.com> To: GenTips-L@rootsweb.com <GenTips-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 5:37 AM Subject: Naming Patterns >I have saved a file on tips for naming patterns from other sources for my own >information. I hope this is useful. > >Cathy Murphy >Bulls0729@aol.com > >This first presentation is from an AOL beginners genealogy group. I try to >always note who gave the presentation so I can request permission to sent it >to someone else. In this case, I inadvertently deleted the date, the name of >the group, and the presenter. I sincerely apologize if it's a problem for >anyone that I reprint this information, but I do not know from whom to get >permission. It does give the source for her/his information. > >First of all, I want to welcome everyone tonight. This information >comes from a lecture I attended given by Marsha Hoffman Rising >in 1991. > >Too often the genealogist focuses research on those individuals >bearing the surname and often only in the direct line. For this >reason, records which may clarify relationships, "prove" ancestral >connections or add evidence to support a hypothesis can be >overlooked. It is important that the researcher emphasize the >family network rather than linking via surname. > >This lecture is about finding your family by early naming practices >and studying collateral kin. Since data regarding the direct line >is often not available, you can make the connections by studying >the collateral kin. One of the ways of finding your collateral kin >is by utilizing naming practices. > >In the early colonies, the law of primogeniture was in effect. It is >an exclusive right of the eldest son to inherit the father's estate. >To ensure that the eldest son inherited, in the event the father >died intestate, the eldest son was generally given the same >name as his father. The second son was often given the first >name of one of his uncles, generally the father's oldest brother. >Later, families devised their own system to ensure that their >offspring inherited. ie., giving all children the same middle name, >denoting the fact that all with that name could inherit, and not just >the oldest son. > >As many families were very large, it is possible to find collateral >kin, and thus an earlier ancestor by studying the names of your >ancestors siblings. > >As stated earlier, the eldest son had the same name as his father, >the second son, the first name of one of his uncles. (paternal >usually, unless the father had no brothers, then a maternal uncle). >The middle name was either his mother's maiden name, or >grandmother's maiden name. Basically, as more children were >born, more maiden names were used, but generally those in the >direct line. Great grandmothers, great great grandmothers, etc. >Interestingly, after the fifth child, there will be names of famous >people. ie, Joseph Wheeler, Robert E. Lee, etc. > >Second generation immigrants often deviated from the original >family names. They often named their children after local heroes. >It is not uncommon for a southern family to name male children >after famous southern political personalities, such as Robert E. Lee, >Francis Marion, Jackson, Jefferson Davis, etc. However, the >following generation often returned to the names of the previous >generation. Therefore, when you find a generation of "local heroes", >don't be discouraged. Ignore the names and try to concentrate on >the more common names. This will help guide you back to the >earlier ancestors. > >Women's names follow the same practices as men's names, but >generally follow the maternal line. The eldest daughter is often >named for her maternal grandmother. Once again maiden names >are often used as middle names. Sometimes, if the family is very >large, you will only find one or two of the daughters with a maiden >name as a middle name. Ironically, to find your female ancestor, >you might have to take the first name of the eldest daughter, and >the middle name of the second son. > >Another interesting tidbit regarding women's lines. If you have the >marriage record of your ancestor, and have no information about >the wife other than her name, make a note of the person that >married them. Many times the minister who performed the >wedding is a relative. Her name may be different because >she was a widow, thus being referred to by her first husband's >name, instead of her maiden name. > >It is often difficult to prove identity when there are several >individuals with the same name. Aside from analyzing the >family thru the naming trends, one should attempt to learn >everything about their ancestor; wife, children, children's >spouses, minister, debtors, creditors, occupation, religion, >neighbors, siblings, politics, etc. > >Find his neighbors by studying the description of every >parcel of land that he owned. Try to learn as much about >his neighbors as possible. > >If you own primary research, assume this to be true until >you find out differently. Reconstruct and track the lives of >the various same name people in question. Study the >people, not just the names you are looking for.. > >There are some key principles to remember when researching >collateral lines. First, names may change, particularly with >women, but the relationships will remain, no matter how often >the name changes. > >The strongest kin ties appear between women. The most enduring >bond occurs between mothers and their grown daughters. This >means that you may find more information by looking for a different >surname than the direct line you are researching. Ties to the wife's >kin are generally stronger than those to husband's, unless male ties >are crucial to the husband's occupation. It is therefore necessary >to learn the occupation of your ancestor. > >Social relationships among kin are not broken by geographic mobility. >This is important because you may be looking in an area where the >records have been destroyed. You may find your information from >one that is geographically removed from the destruction. > >Genealogical organizations and literature are based on surnames. >Too often, female lines are neglected. > >Be sure you understand the meaning of kinship terms in the period >in which you are working. In colonial times, "in-law" referred to the >relationships that we now call "step". > >KINSHIP TERMS > >Affinity - relationships which exist because of marital ties. The >contemporary term for these relations is "in-laws." > >Augmented family - extension of nuclear family to include people >bound together by law, rather than blood; eg. half siblings, adopted >children, step-parents, step-siblings, etc. > >Aunt - in American society, this term can refer to a woman in four >different relative positions: father's sister, mother's sister, father's >brother's wife, mother's brother's wife. > >Brother - in addition to obvious meaning may also include >(1) the husband of one's sister >(2) the brother of one's wife >(3) the husband of one's sister-in-law, >(4) half-brother >(5) step-brother. > >Genealogists must also be aware "brother" may refer to a member >of one's church. > >Collateral family - referring to relatives who are "off to one side" i.e. >not in the direct lineal ancestry, but who share a common ancestor. >In western society, these people are called aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. > >Consanguinity - refers to persons who share common descent or >biological heritage. > >Cousin - very general term in American society referring to someone >with whom you share a common ancestor. Can refer to a person >occupying relationship on either mother or father's side; may also >refer to someone related only by affinity. If this person is in a >different generation, the term "removed" is used giving the number >of generations apart. > >Extended family - when families of more than two generations >compose a household or relationship. > >Full sibling - one who has the same biological mother and father >(thus the same ancestry) as oneself A half sibling has one of the >same parents (and therefore shares only one side of the lineage) >as oneself. > >In Law - in contemporary society, term used to designate someone >to whom you are related by your own marriage or that of a sibling. >In colonial society, this term also referred to relationships created >by the marriage of a parent, currently called "step" relationships. >Thus a "mother-in-law" in the 17th century, may have been a >father's second wife. > >Natural child - when the term "natural" is used the researcher >should not jump to a conclusion that it denotes an illegitimate >relationship. It is meant to indicate a relationship by blood >rather than one by marriage or adoption. An illegitimate >child may be called "my base son" or "my bastard son." > >Nephew/Niece - one who is the child of a sibling (or a >half-sibling, or step-sibling, or a spouse's sibling, or your >spouse's spouse's sibling. Since the term derives from the >Latin term, "nepos" meaning grandson, it is possible an >early colonial reference may have this meaning. > >"Now wife"- often assumed that the testator of a will with this >term had a former wife. While this may be true, it is more >likely the testator is indicating the bequest is intended only >for his present wife and not necessarily to any subsequent >wife he may have. Donald Lines Jacobus wrote, ".... it is to >be doubted whether any other legal phrase has fooled so many >of our most experienced genealogists." > > Nuclear family - a family group consisting of mother, father >and dependent children. > > Step-sibling - one related by virtue of a parent's marriage to >an individual with children by a former marriage or relationship. >While no relation by blood, there can be strong ties of emotion >and tradition between step-siblings. > >Uncle - in American society this term can refer to a man in four >different relative positions: >father's brother; mother's brother; father's sister's husband; >mother's sisters's husband. > >Next is a posting from the Research-Howto list >From: trace97@pacbell.net (Tom Broadlick) > >The Illinois US Gen Web has an excellent Web Page that >includes a helpful section "Surnames what's in a name". >Its URL is >http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilgenweb/ > >Next is a posting from my Jones List >From: Ausha74 > >Hi, >One of the best ways I have found to tell whom to search for >in the ancestors, is this naming pattern. It was in a book I read >and they called it the old Jones naming pattern. > >But in checking other surnames I find that it does fit >them also. Check it with your families and see if it works: > >The first son is named after the father's father >the second son is named after the mother's father >the third son is named after the father himself. >the fourth through end son is named after a favorite brother or friend >(usually of the fathers) > >the first daughter is named after the mother's mother >the second daughter is named after the father's mother >the third daughter is named after the mother herself >and the fourth through end daughter is named after a favorite sister or >friend (usually of the mothers) > >Of course in order for it to work you would have to know the first and >second name of all involved. > >There are exceptions of course, like if the naming >pattern was already satisfied. For instance say the mothers name >was Martha and she was named after her mother Martha. Then she >names the first girl Martha after her mother, the second she names >after the fathers mother, and the third girl's name is now open to >other possibilities because she already named a girl after herself, >or she could use her middle name. > >The same is true for the sons also. Especially watch if a child dies >with an important name and they rename the baby the same name; >usually you would try to put that name into the place where the child >died as to follow the naming pattern. I told this to a lady in the >Genealogy library one day when she told me that all of her family >had named their first daughters Margaret and as I was reciting it >she became white as a sheet and started to cry. You see she had >followed the naming pattern and hadn't even known that it existed. >Then when she started following it backwards she realized that >even tho she had a Jones surname, she knew who she was looking for. >Hope you find yours. Good research to you all >Caline Kitchen Ausha74@aol.com > >From: rory70@juno.com (Rosemary Shield) > >Caline is correct about the naming patterns of the Welsh and Irish, >except the third son is named for a brother or friend, not the fourth. >I found the ancestor of my Joshua Jones this way. A book on him >said his father was Evan Jones, yet he waited until his 12th child to >name a son Evan. I knew no one of Welsh descent (he was born in >PA in 1739) would do this. His first son was William, second John, >for his wife's father, third James, for his brother, first daughter for his >wife's mother, etc. right down the line. Evan was the last name of his >wife's mother. > >When I first started genealogy I had found a 1771 will of a William >Jones in Loudoun Co, VA with sons James and Joshua, but it said >Joshua had died shortly after his father. After years of searching >I went back to the records of Loudoun Co, and found that this William >was in fact the father of my Joshua, and the death of Joshua had >been entered in error. Point of all this?------don't throw out any >records that may in the future help with your research. I have found >the ancestors of several of my lines this way. > >Rosemary > >And next a posting from Rowan Roots (NC): > >Subj: Scotch-Irish >From: khodge@gdi.net (Kenneth Hodge) > >The following pattern was used in the late 1700's to early 1800's. >It sometimes can give a clue but not always. > >The 1st son--named after the fathers father >The 2nd son-named after the mother's father >The 3rd son -named after the father >The 4th son-named after the father's eldest brother > >The 1st daughter-named after the mother's mother >The 2nd daughter- named after the father's mother >The 3rd daughter-named after the mother >The 4th daughter-named after the mother's eldest sister > >Ken in Orlando > >And again, from the Jones list: > >Is any knowledgeable about traditional Scotch-Irish naming patters? >Bob Reid (rreid@ap.org) > >Subj: Nicknames, Middle Names & Other Clues >From: Micki.Jones@MCI.Com (Micki Jones) > >The forwarded message has some very good tips. Thought it >was worth passing along. Hope it is helpful. Thanks, Sharon ... >hope you don't mind my sharing this info. > >Micki Jones > >From: Sharon McAllister <73372.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> > >No hard genealogical data here. I just want to add a bit to the tips >Sharon Crawford shared: > >Nicknames can be VERY important clues -- I have yet to hear >anyone who actually knew my father to call him by either of his >given names, and I can tell how someone knew him by which >nickname is used. But official records and newspaper stories, >like his obituary, give only his proper name. I can imagine how >hard it would be for someone to find hard information about him >starting from family tales. I'm with Sharon, but would add: >Record any nicknames you know and ask elderly relatives about >other people's nicknames -- you'll probably get some juicy stories. > >Middle names can also be a lot of help -- or can be quite >misleading if the person you're searching for has been known by >middle name. One of the things I've learned the hard way is that >if no one knows the middle name of a person only a few generations >back, that may be because it was the middle name that was used. >My gggrandmother, Ellen CROCKET, has been something of >a mystery. Recently a photograph came into my possession, >labeled "Mary Ellen Crockett Cole" in her granddaughter's handwriting. >Maybe, just maybe, this will be the clue I need to break through that >particular brick wall. > >My COLE family is quite a challenge to unscramble. Lots of cousins >in the area, some better documented than others did. I have at least >four related Wm. COLEs in Deep Fork Township at the same time. >Two even had the same middle initial. If I didn't know some of their >nicknames and middle names, I'd have an even harder time keeping >them straight. > >Like Sharon said, family tradition can provide great clues but isn't >infallible. To make the best use of it, look at how many times the >story has been passed down and how long it's been since you >heard it. I had the husbands of one greatgrandaunt out of order. >I knew which one died and which one survived her, so put them down >in that "logical" order. Turns out she'd divorced the first, married the >second, and was then widowed -- but divorce was unmentionable when >the tale was told. > >In one case, it took a nickname, a middle name, AND family tradition >to solve a mystery. I'd "remembered" a greatgranduncle who died >before I was born as Albert Edward COLE. Then found him identified >as "A. G. COLE" in some old clippings. Well, could've been a >misprint..... Found his obituary: Albert Grant COLE. So who >the #$%^&*) was Albert Edward COLE? A figment of my imagination? > >Nope. Cousin "Ed". I knew that "Ed" was short for Edward and had >been frustrated in my attempts to find out his middle name or even >initial. I knew his family well, better than the family of Albert Grant >COLE, and I felt this was something I should remember myself. Then >I found the newspaper clipping about his daughter's wedding -- and he >was identified formally as A. E. Cole rather than Ed Cole. And I >realized that I had been learning about both branches of the family >at about the same time, and the passage of time had simply mixed-up >some of those memories. Once that piece of the puzzle fell into place, >all of the stuff I'd saved about about both A. G. & A. E. COLE made >sense. Often, following Not My COLE has led me to information I >hadn't been able to find directly. > >In a case like this, any and every clue is important. So when in >doubt, I urge you to save that questionable piece of information. >Just as you wouldn't accept it as gospel without further evidence -- >don't reject it unless there's enough counter-evidence to eliminate >it as a possibility. It may come in handy someday! > >Sharon McAllister -- climbing down from her soapbox now.... >73372.1745@compuserve.com > > >==== GenTips Mailing List ==== >To contact the GenTips list owner, use converse@alltel.net > > > >

In a message dated 98-06-25 18:58:56 EDT, you write: << To: GenTips-L@rootsweb.com >> You are unable to read a message (although it may still be listed in your mailbox) after X-number of days on AOL. AOL is firm about it and the messages are not available for retrieval. >> However, if you go to "Personal Filing Cabinet, and click on the message there, you should be able to read it. I know I can with my messages, going back a year or more. Good Luck,. Ron

First thanks to all who answered my question about not available, solved the problem by just deleting the msg. Ok , i took the easy way out. :)) Now i just got inf that my great or great great grand father (haven't figured it out yet) was in the civil war. How would i go about getting inf on that. I know that there have been several things written about this but sorry to admit i didn't pay that much attention at the time (duh) . Would appreciate any inf you can give and then this time i'll pay attention.....Promise lila

Ok, folks, this is my "flame" for the day! I cannot believe the run-around I have gotten from the Broderbund tribe while trying to subscribe to their new on-line Library. I signed up 6/5/98 and that was my first access - and my last!!! I sent an e-mail, after navigating their labarynthine web site to find an address. I sent the message... The answer came and said that they would answer in one or two weeks. Yesterday I sent another e-mail, despite the fact that the first message cautioned me _not_ to send another!!! The "answer" came today: <<Thank you for your email message.  Family Tree Maker Technical Support is unable to answer your message at this time.  We apologize for any inconvenien>> The charge has already hit my card and I am now trying to find out how to cancel this "new" service! Maybe send another e-mail???? Honestly, folks, I am flabbergasted!!!!! I caution you to think hard and long before taking advantage of this new resource! I think it exists only to line its owner's pockets. Gloria

Help! I am in the market for a color scanner and don't know what to purchase! I want a color, flat bed scanner which is EASY to operate! While I won't say cost is not a factor, I would rather spend a bit more and get something good and easy to operate rather than spend less on a "difficult" model. Your suggestions will be appreciated! Judy Hamby

I have been trying to read msg. from baymin@yahoo.com re: townships. I keep getting " that mail is not currently available" Does anyone know why and has anyone else experienced this? Researching Gilman Dodson Coffman Doebler All from Williamsport Pa. early 1900s lila

I would like to know the meaning of POSS. I find it used for both male and females in Dutch lines. ` Thank-you all!!! Charles

I just want to say thank you to everyone that e-mailed me on trying to find my missing Uncle Bill. I was so excited the first time around that I missed many wonderful people that were a big help also. What a wonderful group of people in these groups. People helping People, it's just wonderful. Lois

Marcia: Someone probably gave you the address already, but, if not, here it is: http://www.tip.washington.edu/forms.soundex.formCGI.fcgi Here you type in the name you want to soundex, you can put in multiple names, and then hit the convert button, another screen comes up with the codes. This is the most simple way to soundex names. If you have any problems, let me know and I will help you. Have a good day. -- Joanne Moore Researching: Eickert/Eickest, Franz, Gienau, Hausch, Kestner, Kusher, Rieve, Waltens, and Urban, all from Brooklyn and Queens, New York Eickert/Eickest, Rieve, Gienau Hausch, and Kusher, are also from Germany or Austria.

Fred Pflugrath, Thank you kind man for your e-mail address for Washington Cemeteries. I found both William Cord Timken and first wife Myrtle listed as being in theCedonia Community Church Cemetery. This is my first find on anything and it feels great. I also found a Letha Mae Dashill and Mildred Dashill, I have Mildred in my genealogy as marring a Dashill but I have Letha Mae as marrying a Maurice Morris. Not sure Letha Mae is the correct one but feel the other three are. Is there any way I find out who filled out the papers on these deaths. I did e-mail the person in charge of that cemetery. God Bless All of you for the work you have done. I am going to try and get our little cemetery here in Englewood, FL. to let me do the same thing, where would I send it? Lois

PLEASE post the answer to this on the list. I need to send off for some pension records and I would like to make sure I ask for the right stuff. That was a VERY good question. I'm looking forward to the answer. Shirley

I have been an active Mormon most of my life (and that is a long, long time) and I have never heard that we are to pray for the dead.  We do seal our families together inorder for us to be together after death, (if those family members choose to accept the sealings, we do not take anyone's agency away from them alive or dead, but some things have to be done on earth and we want to offer this to those who may have missed it).  I never cease to be amazed at what others tell me I believe when they themselves have never checked on LDS beliefs from LDS members.  The one that amazes me most is when I am told I don't believe in Christ--- Cindy Hearn Mahavier

First Census of the United States - 1790 -Records of the state enumerations 1782 to 1785 - VA The first census of the U. S. (1790) comprised an enumeration of the inhabitants of the present states of Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia. The 1790 census today, however, is not complete.  The schedules were filed in the State Department, but some were burned when the British burned the Capitol at Washington in the War of 1812 --  the returns for the states of Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Jersey, Tennessee and Virginia having been destroyed then. For Virginia, every effort was made to secure duplicates and some records were secured from manuscript lists of state enumerations made in the years 1782, 1783, 1784 and 1785. Through the courtesy of the State Librarian and members of the Library, an Act was passed by the Legislature allowing the Census Office to withdraw the lists for purposes of making copies and publishing names in lieu of the Federal Census returns. In response to requests from genealogists, etc. a bill was passed authorizing publication of the names of heads of families in the 1790 census.  As the Federal census schedules of the state of Virginia are missing, the lists of the state enumerations made in 1782, 1783, 1784 and 1785 while not complete, have been substituted. The schedules for 1790 form a unique inheritance for the Nation, since they represent for each of the States concerned, a complete list of the heads of families in the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution.  The framers were the statesmen and leaders of thought, but those whose names appear upon the schedules of the First Census were in general the plain citizens who by their conduct in war and peace, made the Constitution possible and by their intelligence and self-restraint put it into successful operation. In Mar 1790, the Union consisted of twelve states -- Rhode Island the last of the original thirteen to enter the Union, being admitted May 29 of the same year.    Vermont, the first addition, was admitted in the following year before the results of the first census were announced.  Maine was a part of Massachusetts, Kentucky was a part of Virginia and the present states of Alabama and Mississippi were parts of Georgia.  The present states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin, with part of Minnesota, were known as the Northwest Territory, and the present state of Tennessee, then a part of North Carolina, was soon to be organized as the Southwest Territory. The territory west of the Allegheny Mountains, with the exception of a portion of Kentucky, was unsettled and scarcely penetrated. The boundaries of towns and other minor divisions and even those of counties, were in many cases unknown or not defined at all. Shirley Hornbeck - hornbeck@s-hornbeck.com or hornbeck@lightspeed.net NEW WEB PAGE URL SHORTLY - PLEASE STAY IN TOUCH! My web page: <<http://users.tminet.com/shornbeck>http://users.tminet.com/shornbeck> THIS & THAT GENEALOGY TIPS:     <<http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5643/tandt.html>http://www.geocities.com /Yosemite/5643/tandt.html>

I'm helping a friend try and find out information about her grandfather. He built bridges all around the world. He was divorced from her grandmother who didn't want to talk about him. When he retired the retirement home he live in had a fire and his personal effects were burned. Does anyone know of anyplace we might be able to find out about bridge builders? She thinks he was called an iron worker. Thanks. Janene

I have saved a file on tips for naming patterns from other sources for my own information. I hope this is useful. Cathy Murphy Bulls0729@aol.com This first presentation is from an AOL beginners genealogy group. I try to always note who gave the presentation so I can request permission to sent it to someone else. In this case, I inadvertently deleted the date, the name of the group, and the presenter. I sincerely apologize if it's a problem for anyone that I reprint this information, but I do not know from whom to get permission. It does give the source for her/his information. First of all, I want to welcome everyone tonight. This information comes from a lecture I attended given by Marsha Hoffman Rising in 1991. Too often the genealogist focuses research on those individuals bearing the surname and often only in the direct line. For this reason, records which may clarify relationships, "prove" ancestral connections or add evidence to support a hypothesis can be overlooked. It is important that the researcher emphasize the family network rather than linking via surname. This lecture is about finding your family by early naming practices and studying collateral kin. Since data regarding the direct line is often not available, you can make the connections by studying the collateral kin. One of the ways of finding your collateral kin is by utilizing naming practices. In the early colonies, the law of primogeniture was in effect. It is an exclusive right of the eldest son to inherit the father's estate. To ensure that the eldest son inherited, in the event the father died intestate, the eldest son was generally given the same name as his father. The second son was often given the first name of one of his uncles, generally the father's oldest brother. Later, families devised their own system to ensure that their offspring inherited. ie., giving all children the same middle name, denoting the fact that all with that name could inherit, and not just the oldest son. As many families were very large, it is possible to find collateral kin, and thus an earlier ancestor by studying the names of your ancestors siblings. As stated earlier, the eldest son had the same name as his father, the second son, the first name of one of his uncles. (paternal usually, unless the father had no brothers, then a maternal uncle). The middle name was either his mother's maiden name, or grandmother's maiden name. Basically, as more children were born, more maiden names were used, but generally those in the direct line. Great grandmothers, great great grandmothers, etc. Interestingly, after the fifth child, there will be names of famous people. ie, Joseph Wheeler, Robert E. Lee, etc. Second generation immigrants often deviated from the original family names. They often named their children after local heroes. It is not uncommon for a southern family to name male children after famous southern political personalities, such as Robert E. Lee, Francis Marion, Jackson, Jefferson Davis, etc. However, the following generation often returned to the names of the previous generation. Therefore, when you find a generation of "local heroes", don't be discouraged. Ignore the names and try to concentrate on the more common names. This will help guide you back to the earlier ancestors. Women's names follow the same practices as men's names, but generally follow the maternal line. The eldest daughter is often named for her maternal grandmother. Once again maiden names are often used as middle names. Sometimes, if the family is very large, you will only find one or two of the daughters with a maiden name as a middle name. Ironically, to find your female ancestor, you might have to take the first name of the eldest daughter, and the middle name of the second son. Another interesting tidbit regarding women's lines. If you have the marriage record of your ancestor, and have no information about the wife other than her name, make a note of the person that married them. Many times the minister who performed the wedding is a relative. Her name may be different because she was a widow, thus being referred to by her first husband's name, instead of her maiden name. It is often difficult to prove identity when there are several individuals with the same name. Aside from analyzing the family thru the naming trends, one should attempt to learn everything about their ancestor; wife, children, children's spouses, minister, debtors, creditors, occupation, religion, neighbors, siblings, politics, etc. Find his neighbors by studying the description of every parcel of land that he owned. Try to learn as much about his neighbors as possible. If you own primary research, assume this to be true until you find out differently. Reconstruct and track the lives of the various same name people in question. Study the people, not just the names you are looking for.. There are some key principles to remember when researching collateral lines. First, names may change, particularly with women, but the relationships will remain, no matter how often the name changes. The strongest kin ties appear between women. The most enduring bond occurs between mothers and their grown daughters. This means that you may find more information by looking for a different surname than the direct line you are researching. Ties to the wife's kin are generally stronger than those to husband's, unless male ties are crucial to the husband's occupation. It is therefore necessary to learn the occupation of your ancestor. Social relationships among kin are not broken by geographic mobility. This is important because you may be looking in an area where the records have been destroyed. You may find your information from one that is geographically removed from the destruction. Genealogical organizations and literature are based on surnames. Too often, female lines are neglected. Be sure you understand the meaning of kinship terms in the period in which you are working. In colonial times, "in-law" referred to the relationships that we now call "step". KINSHIP TERMS Affinity - relationships which exist because of marital ties. The contemporary term for these relations is "in-laws." Augmented family - extension of nuclear family to include people bound together by law, rather than blood; eg. half siblings, adopted children, step-parents, step-siblings, etc. Aunt - in American society, this term can refer to a woman in four different relative positions: father's sister, mother's sister, father's brother's wife, mother's brother's wife. Brother - in addition to obvious meaning may also include (1) the husband of one's sister (2) the brother of one's wife (3) the husband of one's sister-in-law, (4) half-brother (5) step-brother. Genealogists must also be aware "brother" may refer to a member of one's church. Collateral family - referring to relatives who are "off to one side" i.e. not in the direct lineal ancestry, but who share a common ancestor. In western society, these people are called aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Consanguinity - refers to persons who share common descent or biological heritage. Cousin - very general term in American society referring to someone with whom you share a common ancestor. Can refer to a person occupying relationship on either mother or father's side; may also refer to someone related only by affinity. If this person is in a different generation, the term "removed" is used giving the number of generations apart. Extended family - when families of more than two generations compose a household or relationship. Full sibling - one who has the same biological mother and father (thus the same ancestry) as oneself A half sibling has one of the same parents (and therefore shares only one side of the lineage) as oneself. In Law - in contemporary society, term used to designate someone to whom you are related by your own marriage or that of a sibling. In colonial society, this term also referred to relationships created by the marriage of a parent, currently called "step" relationships. Thus a "mother-in-law" in the 17th century, may have been a father's second wife. Natural child - when the term "natural" is used the researcher should not jump to a conclusion that it denotes an illegitimate relationship. It is meant to indicate a relationship by blood rather than one by marriage or adoption. An illegitimate child may be called "my base son" or "my bastard son." Nephew/Niece - one who is the child of a sibling (or a half-sibling, or step-sibling, or a spouse's sibling, or your spouse's spouse's sibling. Since the term derives from the Latin term, "nepos" meaning grandson, it is possible an early colonial reference may have this meaning. "Now wife"- often assumed that the testator of a will with this term had a former wife. While this may be true, it is more likely the testator is indicating the bequest is intended only for his present wife and not necessarily to any subsequent wife he may have. Donald Lines Jacobus wrote, ".... it is to be doubted whether any other legal phrase has fooled so many of our most experienced genealogists." Nuclear family - a family group consisting of mother, father and dependent children. Step-sibling - one related by virtue of a parent's marriage to an individual with children by a former marriage or relationship. While no relation by blood, there can be strong ties of emotion and tradition between step-siblings. Uncle - in American society this term can refer to a man in four different relative positions: father's brother; mother's brother; father's sister's husband; mother's sisters's husband. Next is a posting from the Research-Howto list From: trace97@pacbell.net (Tom Broadlick) The Illinois US Gen Web has an excellent Web Page that includes a helpful section "Surnames what's in a name". Its URL is http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilgenweb/ Next is a posting from my Jones List From: Ausha74 Hi, One of the best ways I have found to tell whom to search for in the ancestors, is this naming pattern. It was in a book I read and they called it the old Jones naming pattern. But in checking other surnames I find that it does fit them also. Check it with your families and see if it works: The first son is named after the father's father the second son is named after the mother's father the third son is named after the father himself. the fourth through end son is named after a favorite brother or friend (usually of the fathers) the first daughter is named after the mother's mother the second daughter is named after the father's mother the third daughter is named after the mother herself and the fourth through end daughter is named after a favorite sister or friend (usually of the mothers) Of course in order for it to work you would have to know the first and second name of all involved. There are exceptions of course, like if the naming pattern was already satisfied. For instance say the mothers name was Martha and she was named after her mother Martha. Then she names the first girl Martha after her mother, the second she names after the fathers mother, and the third girl's name is now open to other possibilities because she already named a girl after herself, or she could use her middle name. The same is true for the sons also. Especially watch if a child dies with an important name and they rename the baby the same name; usually you would try to put that name into the place where the child died as to follow the naming pattern. I told this to a lady in the Genealogy library one day when she told me that all of her family had named their first daughters Margaret and as I was reciting it she became white as a sheet and started to cry. You see she had followed the naming pattern and hadn't even known that it existed. Then when she started following it backwards she realized that even tho she had a Jones surname, she knew who she was looking for. Hope you find yours. Good research to you all Caline Kitchen Ausha74@aol.com From: rory70@juno.com (Rosemary Shield) Caline is correct about the naming patterns of the Welsh and Irish, except the third son is named for a brother or friend, not the fourth. I found the ancestor of my Joshua Jones this way. A book on him said his father was Evan Jones, yet he waited until his 12th child to name a son Evan. I knew no one of Welsh descent (he was born in PA in 1739) would do this. His first son was William, second John, for his wife's father, third James, for his brother, first daughter for his wife's mother, etc. right down the line. Evan was the last name of his wife's mother. When I first started genealogy I had found a 1771 will of a William Jones in Loudoun Co, VA with sons James and Joshua, but it said Joshua had died shortly after his father. After years of searching I went back to the records of Loudoun Co, and found that this William was in fact the father of my Joshua, and the death of Joshua had been entered in error. Point of all this?------don't throw out any records that may in the future help with your research. I have found the ancestors of several of my lines this way. Rosemary And next a posting from Rowan Roots (NC): Subj: Scotch-Irish From: khodge@gdi.net (Kenneth Hodge) The following pattern was used in the late 1700's to early 1800's. It sometimes can give a clue but not always. The 1st son--named after the fathers father The 2nd son-named after the mother's father The 3rd son -named after the father The 4th son-named after the father's eldest brother The 1st daughter-named after the mother's mother The 2nd daughter- named after the father's mother The 3rd daughter-named after the mother The 4th daughter-named after the mother's eldest sister Ken in Orlando And again, from the Jones list: Is any knowledgeable about traditional Scotch-Irish naming patters? Bob Reid (rreid@ap.org) Subj: Nicknames, Middle Names & Other Clues From: Micki.Jones@MCI.Com (Micki Jones) The forwarded message has some very good tips. Thought it was worth passing along. Hope it is helpful. Thanks, Sharon ... hope you don't mind my sharing this info. Micki Jones From: Sharon McAllister <73372.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> No hard genealogical data here. I just want to add a bit to the tips Sharon Crawford shared: Nicknames can be VERY important clues -- I have yet to hear anyone who actually knew my father to call him by either of his given names, and I can tell how someone knew him by which nickname is used. But official records and newspaper stories, like his obituary, give only his proper name. I can imagine how hard it would be for someone to find hard information about him starting from family tales. I'm with Sharon, but would add: Record any nicknames you know and ask elderly relatives about other people's nicknames -- you'll probably get some juicy stories. Middle names can also be a lot of help -- or can be quite misleading if the person you're searching for has been known by middle name. One of the things I've learned the hard way is that if no one knows the middle name of a person only a few generations back, that may be because it was the middle name that was used. My gggrandmother, Ellen CROCKET, has been something of a mystery. Recently a photograph came into my possession, labeled "Mary Ellen Crockett Cole" in her granddaughter's handwriting. Maybe, just maybe, this will be the clue I need to break through that particular brick wall. My COLE family is quite a challenge to unscramble. Lots of cousins in the area, some better documented than others did. I have at least four related Wm. COLEs in Deep Fork Township at the same time. Two even had the same middle initial. If I didn't know some of their nicknames and middle names, I'd have an even harder time keeping them straight. Like Sharon said, family tradition can provide great clues but isn't infallible. To make the best use of it, look at how many times the story has been passed down and how long it's been since you heard it. I had the husbands of one greatgrandaunt out of order. I knew which one died and which one survived her, so put them down in that "logical" order. Turns out she'd divorced the first, married the second, and was then widowed -- but divorce was unmentionable when the tale was told. In one case, it took a nickname, a middle name, AND family tradition to solve a mystery. I'd "remembered" a greatgranduncle who died before I was born as Albert Edward COLE. Then found him identified as "A. G. COLE" in some old clippings. Well, could've been a misprint..... Found his obituary: Albert Grant COLE. So who the #$%^&*) was Albert Edward COLE? A figment of my imagination? Nope. Cousin "Ed". I knew that "Ed" was short for Edward and had been frustrated in my attempts to find out his middle name or even initial. I knew his family well, better than the family of Albert Grant COLE, and I felt this was something I should remember myself. Then I found the newspaper clipping about his daughter's wedding -- and he was identified formally as A. E. Cole rather than Ed Cole. And I realized that I had been learning about both branches of the family at about the same time, and the passage of time had simply mixed-up some of those memories. Once that piece of the puzzle fell into place, all of the stuff I'd saved about about both A. G. & A. E. COLE made sense. Often, following Not My COLE has led me to information I hadn't been able to find directly. In a case like this, any and every clue is important. So when in doubt, I urge you to save that questionable piece of information. Just as you wouldn't accept it as gospel without further evidence -- don't reject it unless there's enough counter-evidence to eliminate it as a possibility. It may come in handy someday! Sharon McAllister -- climbing down from her soapbox now.... 73372.1745@compuserve.com

attemped www.tip.washington.edu/forms.soundex.formCGI.fcgi reply was "req URL could not be retrieved-www.tip.washington.edu-is invalid-- host not found==means named host probably does not exist. HELP !!!! What did I do wrong ??? Jeanne H.

Why would you purchase medals when you can get them for free from the Veterans Administration?  If you know the ones he was awarded simply call them for the proper form and they will be gad to send you authentic replacements!

I recently received the pension file for one of my Civil War veterans. I have a couple of questions: 1. The veteran was an immigrant and I don't think he was naturalized (at least I can't find any record that he was). There is no information in the papers that were sent to me about where (other than just "Germany") or when he was born nor when he entered the country. Is there somewhere else that I can ask for records, such as the enlistment form or something, that would give that information to me? There was no enlistment form in the packet sent to me. Just the pension declarations and the disability discharge. Is that normal? 2. The widow testified that "George Hessig was married to Louisa Krecher, who died he then married Julia Ann Schoenbach as shown by varified copy of marriage certificate and was divorced as shown by the records. This second marriage of my late husband I know nothing of until I obtained the record of said marriage and divorce." There were no copies of those records in the packet. Again, is there more to the pension file and I asked for the wrong thing or is there another record I need to request? Thank you for your assistance. Sherri Hessick thessick@flash.net