At 01:31 PM 5/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Max -- >Maybe Mr. Parshal should check out the Payne family use of DNA to >see genetic applications of DNA. While it didn't answer all the >questions [what single source can/does], it certainly did help. >Patrick Payne did a wonderful job for the group. >Kathryn Ide Langford >"Kathryn Ide Langford" <kathlang@attbi.com> Dear Kathryn, Thank for your suggestion. I agree with you. As a matter of fact, before unsubscribing to this list, and on your same line, I prepared yesterday a few resources to its "skeptical" members, with the suggestion that someone like Ardis Parshall contact the coordinators of those family studies, and express to them why he doesn't believe they are genealogists. Please, Ardis, cc to me your e-mail exchange with them, I will certainly be interested in discussion that will follow. Don't expect me to do the homework for you. Do it yourself. Everything is within your reach. I can appreciate and understand Richard Pence's input that he speaks out of not "knowing enough about DNA testing". Here are a few opportunities for everybody to increase the level of knowledge and to interact with people that on this subject - know more than you do: http://www.roperld.com/RoperGenetics.htm http://www.duerinck.com/results.html http://www.mumma.org/DNA.htm http://www.mctiernan.com/dnaraw.htm http://www.clangregor.org/ http://www.shgs.org/ And per Kathryn's suggestion: http://home.earthlink.net/~ppayne1203/ If you feel that you need more, please let me know, as I have about another 400 families that have web sites of their own, and 100 that are only paper documented. Now, please, don't get back to this list tomorrow saying that you've seen those seven above, analyzed and accepted or rejected the influence of a DNA study in genealogy . This will only tell me that you are not serious, which I am sure is not the case. Take your time, read it thoroughly and write to the project coordinators (which are very helpful and knowledgeable people). And then make your judgement. Lesley, would you mind sending me a copy of the paper or the research study which shows that "the rare of Y mutation is a little higher, but not sufficient to show much difference within the number of generations that can be historically verified." Besides being personally interested in it I would like to forward it to Drs. Hammer and Walsh. Finally, a word in reply to someone that mentioned something about "vested interest". My educational background is Aeronautical Engineering, Political Sciences and much later I decided to pursue an MBA here at Rice University. I make my living from real estate. Very nicely, by the way. Genealogy entered my life a few years ago, when one of my partners in other ventures (including real estate), an avid genealogist for 30 years, started a small hobby because DNA helped him find a link between two branches of his family, where no paper trail was available - one branch was in California, the other in Argentina. He asked me to join his hobby since it was growing into a business. For him, this isn't either his main source of living. Our vested interest is doing what we do in a very passionate way. Totally immersing in it. Willing to learn more and more. Willing to deal with skepticals that question themselves - because we keep always questioning ourselves. This is how we grow. There is nothing more frustrating than dealing with people that are happy with what they know, and who believe that the road ends there. Leslie, please don't forget to send me that paper, as I am unsubscribing from this list. Best Regards Max Blankfeld Max Blankfeld <max@familytreedna.com>