> Should it be dismissed because it is not "genealogy" does not > reflect on the work in anyway whatsoever, rather on the character > of the person refusing to accept the valuable assistance of > colleagues working across related disciplines. Gil -- You misunderstand me. I am not dismissing disciplines that are not genealogy, not in the slightest. I am far from refusing to accept the valuable assistance of colleagues working across related disciplines. While admitting to skepticism about the genealogical value of DNA testing, I have never denied its possible value; I have only asked for illustrations that it is in fact valuable. This IS a genealogy forum, so you can expect that most of the participants are principally interested in genealogy. I certainly am. It has been repeatedly stated by several list participants that commercial DNA testing has resulted in the successful resolution of numerous genealogical puzzles. Wonderful! But how? Would you, or any other participant, please have the kindness to pick any successful story and describe it in a Methods-y way so that I can understand HOW such testing can resolve a genealogical puzzle? Please? I do not deny the possibility, but I do not understand. I am asking for an example, and neither you nor Max nor anyone else is offering one. Perhaps I can do my part in resolving the miscommunication by illustrating what I am hoping to find. Some possibilities: 1. One of the articles on Max's list tells about a family who confirmed their tradition that they were Cohens by using DNA testing to show that they carried the cohenim gene. How does this contribute to their genealogy? While they are now confident that some unknown and indeterminately distant ancestor was a Cohen, have they really learned anything about how they fit into that genealogical line and how they are connected to any identified person? Traced lineages are the essence of genealogy. To me, the cohenim story is no more genealogical than family pride about being Italian, or being "some kind of cousin to Robert E. Lee" -- all very virtuous, lovely, of good report and praiseworthy, but not genealogical until you know WHICH Italians you descend from or HOW you connect to Robert E. Lee. What am I missing here? How does this scientific confirmation of their family tradition contribute to their traced lineage? 2. Perhaps a commercial DNA test would indicate that I am descended from the Parshalls of Xville and completely unrelated to the Parshalls of Yville. I could then take advantage of that process of elimination you describe, and focus entirely on the Xville family to save years of effort and thousands of dollars in not barking up the wrong tree. Bravo! This would be the perfect illustration. If you have such a success story, please present it as a Methods-y case study so that I can understand why going the DNA route is better than, or at least as good as, the traditional method of examining documents. 3. Jeremiah Lapp was a Loyalist who left Pennsylvania and ended up in Ontario. I have traced and documented my descent from Alois F. Lapp, who -- based on geography, timing, and name patterns -- is almost certainly the grandson of Jeremiah Lapp. I have not yet found the records to confirm which of Jeremiah's sons was the father of Alois. Is there any way your DNA testing could tell me whether that mystery link is John Lapp? or Anthony Lapp? or a completely unrelated Lapp ancestor? Do you have a success story where someone has resolved a similar genealogical puzzle? Those are three possible success stories that would make it clear to me how DNA testing can be an aid to genealogy. And I make no apology for the fact that it's genealogy that is important to me. I'm open to sociology and anthropology and statistics and the art of pumpkin carving if any of those disciplines can aid my genealogical search. Just help me understand how. Please. Ardis Parshall AEParshall@aol.com