> I have a question about a couple of word definitions. I downloaded > a gedcom last night with a list of names from 1250 and earlier. At > a certain point, the names changed to Old English and there is > where > my question lies. The men's names all have the word ap between the > first and last names (although the last names in some cases look > like first names), and all the women's names have the word verch > between the first and last names- i.e.; IEUAN ap LLEWELYN and JONET > verch CYNFYN. I am assuming that these words mean "son of" and > "daughter of", but I would like a better informed opinion, if > possible. Does anyone out there know what these two words mean? > > Carrie Marsh <carrie1@attglobal.net> Hi, Doing a quick Google of ap, verch, and meaning, I got back this site: http://www.llgc.org.uk/ht/ht_s005.htm on preparing for your visit, to the National Library of Wales, archival research. Cool! Thanks for posting your question, I am of Welsh descent, and this site will definitely be a help. I would not have found it without your query. To answer your question, you are right about ap & verch and their meanings, but this site has further info. I copied the text below, so you would have more than my fleeting knowledge of Gaelic to go on: >>>One fundamental difference between the two countries is the use of patronymics in Wales as opposed to fixed surnames in England. Examples of this system are Griffith Lewis, son of Lewis John William, and Harry David, son of David John Rees, both witnesses to a grant of properties in the parish of Llandeilo Fawr, Carmarthenshire, in 1683. Similarly, the marriages of Thomas Morris and Elizabeth Morris, spinster, the son and daughter of Morris Thomas, farmer, are recorded in the parish register of Llansilin, Denbighshire, exactly a century later. In its earlier form, the naming system usually included ab or ap (meaning son of) or ferch (often written verch, meaning daughter of) e.g. the baptism of Elin verch William ap Llywelyn in Llandegfan, co. Anglesey, in 1599. <<< It has lots of other nifty info, too. Happy digging! Jane Hodges-Kuebler Maria Kelley <mariakjek@juno.com>