"bob gillis" <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > "Richard A. Pence" wrote: > > > > I am not quite sure, either, how you are using the FamilySearch 1880 > > listings. The LDS 1880 census material is an index and is not a > > "source document." > > Richard, it is a transcription and not just an index. It contains > the same information as the 1880 Census CDs as do the > 1881 Canadian and British Census. Bob: I know nothing of the Canadian and British censuses as any ancestors I had in either place pre-date the census records. However, if you believe that the LDS 1880 U.S. Census *Index* (and a fine one it is) is a "transcription," you might want to look at one of the images and compare it with the LDS index extraction. It doesn't contain "the same information as the 1880 Census CDs" (I assume you mean the image CDs taken from the microfilms); it contains only a fraction of it. The 1880 U.S. Census contains 26 specific items; of these, only 8 are in the :DS index. The two lists are below my signature. Richard 1. Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation. 2. Families numbered in order of visitation. 3. The name of every person whose place of abode on the 1st day of June, 1880, was in this family. Personal description: 4. Color: White, W; black, B; Mulatto, Mu; Chinese, C; Indian, I. 5. Sex: Males (M), females (F) 6. Age at last birthday prior to June 1, 1880. If under 1 year, give months in fractions, thus, 3/12. 7. If born within the census year, give the month. 8. Relationship of each person to the head of this family whether wife, son, daughter, servant, boarder, or other. Civil condition: 9. Single. 10. Married. 11. Widowed; divorced. 12. Married during census year. Occupation: 13. Profession, occupation, or trade of each male, male or female. 14. Number of months this person has been unemployed during the census year. Health: 15. Is the person (on the day of the enumerator's visit) sick or temporarily disabled, so as to be unable to attend to ordinary business or duties? Is so, what is the sickness or disability? 16. Blind. 17. Deaf and dumb. 18. Idiotic. 19. Insane. 20. Maimed, crippled, bedridden, or otherwise disabled. Education: 21. Attended school within the census year. 22. Can not read. 23. Can not write. Nativity: 24. Place of birth of this person, naming State or Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth. 25. Place of birth of the father of this person, naming State or Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth 26. Place of birth of the mother of this person, naming State or Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth Of these 26 pieces of information, the LDS 1880 index includes only these eight: 3. Name 4. Color 5. Sex 6. Age 8. Relationship to HOH (Partial; those not members of the family are in a catch-all "other" category) 24. Place of birth 25. Place of birth of father 26. Place of birth of mother "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com>

"Richard A. Pence" wrote: > I know nothing of the Canadian and British censuses as any ancestors > I had in either place pre-date the census records. However, if you > believe that the LDS 1880 U.S. Census *Index* (and a fine one it is) > is a "transcription," you might want to look at one of the images > and compare it with the LDS index extraction. It doesn't contain > "the same information as the 1880 Census CDs" (I assume you mean the > image CDs taken from the microfilms); it contains only a fraction of > it. Richard, yes I am referring to the 1880 FamilySearch Census. It is much more than an index. Yes it does not contain all the information in the 1880 Census enemeration but it does contain most of the information that is useful in genelaogical research. > The 1880 U.S. Census contains 26 specific items; of these, only 8 > are in the LDS index. The two lists are below my signature. > > Richard > > 1. Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation.> > 2. Families numbered in order of visitation. No, but what is the real importance of this information except in rather unususal circumstances. If you want to know the failies in order of visitation, just search on neighbord. > 3. The name of every person whose place of abode on the 1st day > of June, 1880, was in this family. > Personal description: > 4. Color: White, W; black, B; Mulatto, Mu; Chinese, C; Indian, I > 5. Sex: Males (M), females (F) > 6. Age at last birthday prior to June 1, 1880. If under 1 year, > give months in fractions, thus, 3/12. > 7. If born within the census year, give the month. > 8. Relationship of each person to the head of this family whether > wife, son, daughter, servant, boarder, or other. Civil condition: > 9. Single. > 10. Married. > 11. Widowed; divorced. > 12. Married during census year. > Occupation: > 13. Profession, occupation, or trade of each male, male or > female. This information is given. > 14. Number of months this person has been unemployed during the > census year. > Health: > 15. Is the person (on the day of the enumerator's visit) sick or > temporarily disabled, so as to be unable to attend to ordinary > business or duties? Is so, what is the sickness or disability? No but ususally not important > 16. Blind. > 17. Deaf and dumb. > 18. Idiotic. > 19. Insane. > 20. Maimed, crippled, bedridden, or otherwise disabled. > Education: > 21. Attended school within the census year. > 22. Can not read. > 23. Can not write. 17 thru 23, no, but ususally not pertinanat. > Nativity: > 24. Place of birth of this person, naming State or Territory of > United States, or the country, if of foreign birth. > 25. Place of birth of the father of this person, naming State or > Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth > 26. Place of birth of the mother of this person, naming State or > Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth > > Of these 26 pieces of information, the LDS 1880 index includes > only these eight: > > 3. Name > 4. Color > 5. Sex > 6. Age > 8. Relationship to HOH (Partial; those not members of the family > are in a catch-all "other" category) > 24. Place of birth > 25. Place of birth of father > 26. Place of birth of mother If any of the omitted information is pertinant for a researcher, he can go to the micofilm and get all the data. There are 48? CDs in the 1880 Census. To show all the information would have probably made the set 20% larger and for how much use? bob gillis bob gillis <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net>

bob gillis wrote: >"Richard A. Pence" wrote: > >>[snip] However, if you believe that the LDS 1880 U.S. Census *Index* (and a fine one it is)is a "transcription," you might want to look at one of the images and compare it with the LDS index extraction. It doesn't contain >>"the same information as the 1880 Census CDs" (I assume you mean the >>image CDs taken from the microfilms); it contains only a fraction of >>it. >> >> > >Richard, yes I am referring to the 1880 FamilySearch Census. It is >much more than an index. Yes it does not contain all the >information in the 1880 Census enemeration but it does contain most >of the information that is useful in genelaogical research. It would seem this is a matter somewhat of one's personal preference for semantics. I usually have referred to the 1880 LDS FamilySearch Census as a "transcription," using a popularly understood word to emphasize that it is *not* an original image but recognizing that it offers much more than a typical "index," both in the amount of information and the format it offers (i.e., viewing an entire household together). Richard actually hit the nail on the head, though, in his explanation that it is an "extraction," and we should probably try to use the proper term. >>[snip] >> >>1. Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation.> >>2. Families numbered in order of visitation. >> >> > >No, but what is the real importance of this information except in >rather unususal circumstances. If you want to know the failies in >order of visitation, just search on neighbord. > [snip] >>14. Number of months this person has been unemployed during the >>census year. >>Health: >>15. Is the person (on the day of the enumerator's visit) sick or >>temporarily disabled, so as to be unable to attend to ordinary >>business or duties? Is so, what is the sickness or disability? >> >> > >No but ususally not important > > > >>16. Blind. >>17. Deaf and dumb. >>18. Idiotic. >>19. Insane. >>20. Maimed, crippled, bedridden, or otherwise disabled. >>Education: >>21. Attended school within the census year. >>22. Can not read. >>23. Can not write. >> >> > >17 thru 23, no, but ususally not pertinanat. > > > >>[snip] >> >> > >If any of the omitted information is pertinant for a researcher, he >can go to the micofilm and get all the data. >[snip] I find all those points that Bob says are "usually not important" to be very important to me. However, once again, that's probably a matter of ones personal definition of "genealogy." Bob is correct that we can always go to microfilm or the original source if we want the additional information, which we should eventually do anyway because of the errors that any extraction, index, or transcription can have. It's certainly better to have some of the information freely available online in any form than none at all. What's most important is that we recognize and understand every resource for exactly what it is, exactly what it offers, and exactly what it does not offer. The right word helps. Diane genmail@1st.net