On 26 Nov 2006 at 9:20, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote: > In the hope that some continued discussion will benefit newbies... > > None of my "proven" data is on any web site for several > reasons. I think a general discussion of this topic could be useful to anyone. I agree with your reticence to do this, and have been "agonizing" over it for a long, long time. > I don't want it harvested by commercial groups for > one. This fear also motivates me. Its bad enough that I have already felt stung by Family Tree Maker's World Connect thing. Let me say here that the event I'm about to relate occurred YEARS ago -- I'm older, more experienced, more professional, and much, much wiser now. I don't know if it's any different with later versions, but early on, a popup would come up when you'd entered, what, your 100th person -- complete with errors, wrong suppositions, and all the other failings that newbie flesh is heir to. The popup congratulats you, making your newbie soul beam with pride. Then the popup would ask you if you'd like to "contribute" your knowledge to the World Family Tree, and it would extol the virtues thereof -- with, of course, no mention of the vices (errors, wrong assumptions, faulty sourcing). And it would NOT tell you that they were going to turn around and MAKE MONEY by SELLING your freely and altruistically given information for something like ten bucks a pop. Gee, at least we suckers should be getting royalties for this. The worst part is that the newbie booboos we made a couple decades ago never die! That's one reason I switched to The Master Genealogist in later years. That, and the fact that TMG is much more robust in its handling of sources. But I digress . . . Has anyone come up with a way to design a genealogical website so that it is impossible for commercial outfits to harvest the information? Or at least difficult enough to make it not worth the trouble? I've toyed with mounting everything as graphics. Just putting up a GEDCOM seems to me the perfect bait for the commercial outfits' "bots." Finding a way to foil this particularly nasty habit of the commercial concerns would be a good use of time, to my mind! > For another, I'm selfish. <grin> Me, too, really. > I want to have a discussion with anyone who is > interested in any of the lines I follow and making > the data universally available does not always fill > that need. Yeah, but there may be someone out there banging his or her head on a brick wall -- as we all have done. And your information may be the key to unlock the hidden vault they are seeking. Just a thought. I am somewhat selfish, too, as I admitted. But I also would like to have my properly-sourced and investigated information out there for others who may need it. I found my grandmother (long story) -- well, found her grave -- because of leads provided by information on the WorldWide Web. Hadn't been for that, I'd still be banging my head against that brick wall. I wouldn't know where she was buried; I wouldn't have confirmation from the cemetery sexton; I wouldn't have her death certificate, and wouldn't know that she died of heart disease (which also runs on my father's side, and now my doctor and I have more information to take better care of my own cardiovascular system)! I would also like to mention that at the Florida State Genealogical Society/Federation of Genealogical Societies conference in Orlando, FL, in 2003, Helen F. M. Leary gave a wonderful talk about the "garbage" on the WorldWide Web, and the need for people with correct information properly sourced and documented to post such on the Web as an example of how to do it right, and to counteract the garbage. Seemed like a good idea to me. I have to say that I don't fret that much about the garbage on the Web because I remember Sturgeon's Law, named for science fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon, who once said, "95% of science fiction is crud. But then, 95% of EVERYTHING is crud." Sturgeon's Law applies to the Web as well -- 95% of what is out there is crud, but I'd sure like to be able to contribute to the golden 5%. However, I'd like to be able to do that without getting totally ripped off. > Also, I have built 5 generations before the dead > end based solely on incontrovertible (so far) logic. > I'm not interested in someone saying WOW! Ya know, I don't mind "WOW!" if it means, "I've been looking for ten years for a clue to this, and here it is! Thank you so much!" That kind of "WOW!" is very nice, and I've been able to experience that myself a couple of times because someone else provided information that led me to the source I needed. > I want to know if proof (I haven't seen) exists that > proves me right or wrong - wrong info is worse than > no info. Ideally, this kind of interchange would be prompted by a display of information on the Web. Unfortunately, it is not always so; some people will enter into a dialogue which will prove eminently fruitful for both you and them. But not everyone is built that way. <shrug> Sometimes, too, wrong information can be better than no information. It may provide a lead which will guide us to the right information. We have to evaluate the information, question it, and see where it takes us. It is up to us to properly investigate the information and determine its value -- or lack thereof. > People have a tendency to accept what they see on > Internet without question. Just as people had for generations accepted what they saw in the newspapers without question. And, later, on the boob tube. So that's really nothing new, just a new form of an old vice. > And, in my case, several of my early theories still > appear even though I have dismissed them as > incorrect. Fortunately the people published them > as their own data instead of giving me > credit. Lucky you. MY name is on that dratted World Family Tree stuff, which I figured out years ago was wrong, and have since corrected. Argh! > This includes the righteous among us who properly > insist on bloodlines but who will be in for a > few disappointments when DNA testing is universal. <grin> As may we all! There may be more than a few unrecorded and unacknowledged adoptions in the woodpiles of many of us. Another concern with putting information up on the WorldWide Web is private individuals who steal information. They're out there, unfortunately. They'll take your info, sources and all -- sometimes verbatim -- and put it up on their websites as theirs. I really don't want to fall victim to one of them. Nor do I want the self-righteous hypercritics who will take one little error you may not have corrected yet and shred you a new one over it. I'd like to see some solutions for these problems -- though there probably is no cure for the last one! > This is getting pretty windy and I have said nothing > that most people here could not have said better. If > nothing else I hope it gives some newcomers food > for thought - I know it won't help any > oldcomers. On the contrary: I think discussions of such topics as these helps everyone. Karen Rhodes Middleburg, FL "Karen Rhodes" <[email protected]>