> In the course of researching Daniel Platt, we found that he was > captured in the battle of Nashville and was confined to > Andersonville Prison. > > This was confirmed by Civil War Pension Documents. > > We check a number of sources to see if we could find him on the list > of prisoners for Andersonville. He was not found on the lists and we > were told that some of the records perished in a fire. > > And this brings us to my two questions. > > 1 Does anyone know how to get in touch with the office of Civil War > Prisoners through NARA or any other source? > > 2 Does anyone know where to find prisoner exchange lists as he was > listed as being exchanged? > > "Rick" <r.polaski@att.net> Rick, What unit did Daniel Platt serve with? Did he survive the war. If so, he probably has a pension file. His service record might tell when he was exchanged or released or else the pension file will. If I have information on his regiment and/or where he was from, I can probably find out if and when he was released from Andersonville this week. Browse back through the messages from GM for I think January. The park historian from Andersonville sent in his name and an offer to research prisoners. Sharon Sharon Simpson <sharonlsimpson@comcast.net>

> I've run in to a wall, that I don't know how to climb over. I found > my ggrandfather listed on the 1910 and 1930 Census, but I can't seem > to find him anywhere in the 1920. Is there a specific way to go > about finding someone who is not indexed? Or am I stuck with going > through every page in a five county radius to search for him? Any > suggestions, ideas, or help would be greatly appreciated. > > Carrie Marsh carrie1@attglobal.net I can't tell enough information from your message to tell how and where you have searched to come to the conclusion that he is not indexed in 1920. In general, is he living in the same county in 1910 and 1930? If yes, check for the corresponding area in 1920. Have you tried soundex, variations of the first name (Will, William, Bill), nicknames, middle name, initials, wife's or children's names? Searched by age and last name only? The 1920 census is online at anceestry.com and is searchable by all of those plus age and place of birth. If you don't have access, and frequently use the 1920 and 1930 census records, I would suggest it for these two years alone. If you will email me the complete citation from 1910 and 1930, I'll see what I can find. It often takes searching a lot of variations to find the family. I am currently trying to document every family in every census year, and I only have a handful that I can't ever find for a given year. Glee Glee <gleemc@earthlink.net>

> Richard Pence wrote: > > >Great story, Joan. The "high cheek bones and black hair" are an > >integral part of the American Indian heritage tradition in many > >cases. > > I live in the farthest southwest tip of the Australian continent. > In terms of the globe we are diametrically opposite some point in > the North Atlantic, somewhere north of Bermuda. > > That places us as far as it is possible to get from New York, for > example, and still be on land. We are as far removed from American > Indian blood. > > Guess what. > > We have European families here too with high cheek bones, dark > almond eyes and long black hair, except that people here insist > "they must be gypsies" . . . . > > Gil Hardwick <gruagach@highway1.com.au> Don't be so certain those high cheek bones and long dark hair aren't from Native American ancestry. It seems I remember corresponding with a lady in Australia on the Metisgen list who is descended from Native Americans. I believe some were sent from Canada in part of the effort to remove Indians from Canada. And if I remember correctly, her husband may be gypsy. Sharon Sharon Simpson <sharonlsimpson@comcast.net>

Hi, I was wondering about changing childrens names when the mother has been widowed and remarries around 1850's. Did they have to go thru some legal steps, or could the mother and step father "unofficially" change the childrens as if they were adopted by the father? thanks! Dena "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com>

> To date I have not had to research outside records in the United > States. I am trying to help a friend who needs to begin her search > in Canada. What resources are available? > > We found some possibilities for her grandfather in the 1881 and 1901 > census, but there is not enough information to be certain which of > the 1/2 dozen found is the one. > > We know what is believed to be the city of birth for the father and > the grandfather. > > We know when her father left Canada for Illinois [1925, and he > appears in the 1930 US Census]. We don't know where to go next. > > Father was born 1904 Ontario Canada > Grandfather was born 1862 Arden Ontario Canada > > Father served in the United States military in WWII. > > hopekeeper@hopekeeperskorner.org I just ran across a new site for Canada: http://www.grl.com/ Be warned though it is a little pricy but it does have alot of records for Ontario up and running. It has a Dominion directory and some birth record numbers to make the search easier. "Roxanne Koelpin" <r.koelpin@verizon.net>

I've run in to a wall, that I don't know how to climb over. I found my ggrandfather listed on the 1910 and 1930 Census, but I can't seem to find him anywhere in the 1920. Is there a specific way to go about finding someone who is not indexed? Or am I stuck with going through every page in a five county radius to search for him? Any suggestions, ideas, or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in Advance, Carrie in Colorado Carrie Marsh <carrie1@attglobal.net>

> but it is sort of strange in a way, knowing how hated the Indians > were by the white families that there are so many who say they are > of Indian descent. I was at a talk several years ago given by a noted genealogical speaker, and he said the very large number of people in the U.S. who have some Indian blood was partly due to the many trappers, and others who "went west" on the frontier, where there were no white woman. Due to this, many of them, who were friendly with the Indians, often "married", in an Indian ceremony, with women of the tribes. Or were "given" a squaw because of some deed. He said the "three brothers who came from Europe and one of them married an Indian Princess" family lore story needed to be investigated pretty thoroughly, as that was usually bunk." JudyMcKinn@aol.com

> How did you find all this evidence? What sources are available to > find these ancestors? > > "Evelyn Bayna" <ebayna@ucsd.edu> Those of us with ancestors dating from the foundation of the cape Colony are lucky - the Dutch East India Company (correctly, the VOC) and the Dutch Reformed Church kept excellent records. The data from the registers has been published twice - an early version by de Villiers et al had assorted errors in it, and the material was checked, extended and republished at the end of the 20th century by Heese at al. Add to that the fact that I live very near the dutch National Archives, which contains most of the original documents (most things were kept in duplicate, one set left at the Cape and the other shipped back to Europe). The contribution of slaves of assorted origin to the Afrikaner gene pool was the subject of a PhD thesis some time back - a copy of this is also available in the Hague. My Khoi Khoi ancestor, Eva Krotoa, has been very well researched, and a great deal has been published about here. (Before anybody asks, looking stuff up at the Archives requires me to take a day off work). If you're really interested in this, take a look here http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/index.htm It's the central web page for S.African genealogy. Lesley Robertson Lesley Robertson <l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl>

Hi, I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me. In the course of researching Daniel Platt, we found that he was captured in the battle of Nashville and was confined to Andersonville Prison. This was confirmed by Civil War Pension Documents. We check a number of sources to see if we could find him on the list of prisoners for Andersonville. He was not found on the lists and we were told that some of the records perished in a fire. And this brings us to my two questions. 1 Does anyone know how to get in touch with the office of Civil War Prisoners through NARA or any other source? 2 Does anyone know where to find prisoner exchange lists as he was listed as being exchanged? any help or advise would greatly be appreciated. Thanks Rick "Rick" <r.polaski@att.net>

> > Jan 17, 2003 - Lisa wrote: > > The 1905 Providence RI City Directory has this listing for my > > greatgrandfather > > Henry A. Gaboriault > > Carpenter & Contractor > > Expert Market Refrigerator builder. Charles Sullivan <cwsulliv@triad.rr.com> writes: > Think about the walk-in refrigerators found in butcher shops. I thought I would follow up and let you know that I found what I believe to be a refrigerator of this type. Charles' message reminded me that there was a wooden refrigerator in a local Italian market. I learned their ice box was built in approximately 1880, and at that time was cooled with blocks of ice, similar to a home ice box. It has been in use since that time in at least 2 different store locations on the street. One of those locations was an ice cream shop. As the technology advanced, the ice blocks were eventually replaced with modern condenser unit. There is a manufacturer's plate on theirs which says Kelvinator. Their fridge is set into a corner of the building, with 3 windows on one side, and a large door on the other. The remaining 2 sides are not visible. It is made of what looks like oak, with brass fittings. The store owner told me the brass fittings are not available any longer, and over the years, he has has many offers from people who want to buy it! Thanks again for everyone's help, Lisa llepore@juno.com

Stories of Indian ancestry exist in both my my mother's family and my father's family, but I have had no success in verifying these stories. One of my paternal grandmother's uncles - then a resident of Oklahoma - actually applied to be placed on the Cherokee rolls in the early 1900s, which application was rejected. I don't know the details because I have not yet obtained that information from the National Archives. Then he applied to be placed on the rolls of the Mississippi Choctaws and again was rejected on the grounds that his father was not present when the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek was signed. He claimed that both his mother and his father were half Indian. His mother was born in Georgia, as nearly as I can tell. Although his father was born in what is now Mississippi, his paternal grandfather was, as nearly as I can tell, born in South Carolina, which was not one of the places that the Mississippi Choctaw lived although I believe that the Cherokees did live in South Carolina. The uncle, John Watson, was born in what is now St. Helena Parish, La., and he and his parents and siblings settled in Houston County, Texas, in the mid-1840s when Texas was still a republic. I am puzzled. Did John Watson truly believe that both of his parents were half Indian and was simply unable to prove this? Or was there some financial incentive in the very early 1900s that would encourage him to apply to be placed on Indian rolls and he decided to lie to try to take advantage of that situation? I would be most interested in the opinions of those who have researched Indian ancestry. Incidentally, the only person I know who is actually on the Cherokee rolls - her father was half Cherokee - has very fair skin, hazel eyes, and medium brown hair. Janey E. Joyce - jejoyce@sbcglobal.net

Our new research note for March reviews the geographic structure of censuses and how to find people without an index. There is also a list of the Minnesota cities and villages which appear in more than one county in the 1930 Federal Census. You can check it out at http://www.parkbooks.com/Html/research.html And feel free to sign up for your personal notification for next month's note! We do not share that info with any one! Mary Mary Bakeman Park Genealogical Books, publishers of MN Genealogical Journal e-mail mbakeman@parkbooks.com WWW http://www.parkbooks.com/

> > I live in the farthest southwest tip of the Australian continent. > > In terms of the globe we are diametrically opposite some point in > > the North Atlantic, somewhere north of Bermuda. > > > > That places us as far as it is possible to get from New York, for > > example, and still be on land. We are as far removed from American > > Indian blood. > > > > Guess what. > > > > We have European families here too with high cheek bones, dark > > almond eyes and long black hair, except that people here insist > > "they must be gypsies" . . . . > > > > Gil Hardwick <gruagach@highway1.com.au> > > One of my maternal GrGrandparents was said to be an American Indian. > When I decided to compile a genealogy on that lineage, I found to > our utter astonishment we are descended from Roma, who are known as > Gypsies. We descend from the Roma of Europe, in our case, German > Roma. At present some of our kin folks won't even talk to me they > are so perturbed by this information. Apparently, many folks wish > to be Native American, but few wish to be a Gypsy!! > > On my Dad's side of the family we descend from Hilibi Creek. I have > been told by a Creek tribal genealogist, there exist two ways to be > recognized as a Native American: 1) to descend from a person on the > Native rolls and/or 2) to locate a record, often a land record, that > identifies the ancestor as a Native American. [Possibly there exist > other means of proof, but I only know of those means told me by that > genealogist.] > > Fran fpowellsr@starpower.net See for example Menno Boldt (1993), Surviving as Indians, appendix three. I think it is normal that group membership definitions are legal issues dealing with access to resources/rights of some kind. Definitions in censuses thus have normative and control functions which must be taken into account when using information taken from them. I don't have references here to late 19th and early 20th century activities in the International Statistics Institute, but they had recommendations for how to treat ethnic groups and other minorities in census taking. -- Regnor : PGP Key ID 2B36C9DE (ruoktu/home) Regnor Jernsletten <rjernsle@eunet.no>

> > > <snip> > > > > > > We have European families here too with high cheek bones, dark > > > almond eyes and long black hair, except that people here insist > > > "they must be gypsies" . . . . > > > > > > Gil Hardwick <gruagach@highway1.com.au> > > > > One of my maternal GrGrandparents was said to be an American Indian. > > When I decided to compile a genealogy on that lineage, I found to > > our utter astonishment we are descended from Roma, who are known as > > Gypsies. We descend from the Roma of Europe, in our case, German > > Roma. At present some of our kin folks won't even talk to me they > > are so perturbed by this information. Apparently, many folks wish > > to be Native American, but few wish to be a Gypsy!! > > > > <snip> > > > > Fran fpowellsr@starpower.net > > I saw a documentary on the 'gypsies' or Roma people not too long > ago. They have a very interesting and remarkable history. IN the > documentary they were analyzing the language for clues to their > background. Amazingly some of the words they analyzed told a lot of > history about their beginnings. (sounds funny, but I hope you > understand what I am trying to say...:) ) I think tho for the most > part, it is still a mystery. > > On the 'German Roma', I have some German Youngblood, or Jungbludt > (sp different ways) could that be a Roma line? > > Something else on this Indian blood thing, I feel somewhere in our > line there is some Indian of some kind or some other Indian 'like' > race, cause too many of the babies are born with a golden brown > 'tan' and black hair which turns brown or blonde later in life, but > it is sort of strange in a way, knowing how hated the Indians were > by the white families that there are so many who say they are of > Indian descent. Only God knows for sure. > > "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com> that was supposed to go private. sorry, dena

> <snip> > On the 'German Roma', I have some German Youngblood, or Jungbludt > (sp different ways) could that be a Roma line? > > Something else on this Indian blood thing, I feel somewhere in our > line there is some Indian of some kind or some other Indian 'like' > race, cause too many of the babies are born with a golden brown > 'tan' and black hair which turns brown or blonde later in life, but > it is sort of strange in a way, knowing how hated the Indians were > by the white families that there are so many who say they are of > Indian descent. Only God knows for sure. > > "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com> I think you are reaching here. With both the names and the hair color. Youngblood might sound like an Indian or Gypsy name to you but do you really have any idea what names might be Gypsy or Indian in that area? As for the black-haired babies who grow up with a different color that would seem to indicate they were not Indian as an Indian's hair color did not change with age except to perhaps gray. As has been already recommended, research needs to be done with an open mind. Celia "Celia Mitschelen" <cmitsch@ix.netcom.com>

Lesley Robertson wrote: >Still doesn't tell you everything. In colouring, I'm a typical scot >- fair hair and burn-before-sunbathing skin, but my mitochondrial >DNA will tell you that I'm from Bombay, India, thanks to a slave at >the Cape of Good Hope at the beginning of the 18th century. From >that period, I also have Khoi Khoi, Sri Lankan and Indonesian >ancestors. > >We need to use any and all evidence we can find, not rely on a >single factor. How did you find all this evidence? What sources are available to find these ancestors? Evelyn Evelyn Bayna <ebayna@ucsd.edu>

dena@dbnetmall.com writes: > Something else on this Indian blood thing, I feel somewhere in our > line there is some Indian of some kind or some other Indian 'like' > race, cause too many of the babies are born with a golden brown > 'tan' and black hair which turns brown or blonde later in life, but > it is sort of strange in a way, knowing how hated the Indians were > by the white families that there are so many who say they are of > Indian descent. Only God knows for sure. Dena- Oh, I don't know--I don't think you can do genealogy by appearance. There was a "tradition" in my HAINES family that one of the early English HAINES immigrants to America had married the proverbial Indian princess, Mary Carlile, but research proved that Mary was really of French Huguenot descent which accounted for her darker than typically English complexion. I notice that no one has yet mentioned "Indian teeth" as a marker for Indian or other Asian blood but that might be of greater significance than skin or eye color. Any dentist can tell you that Asian teeth are different from European teeth and while the lack of such a "trait" doesn't prove one does not have Asian (or Indian) blood the presence of the trait/gene does prove that there is some Asian blood present. Asian teeth are much less prone to cavities than European teeth but those who have them are more prone to gum problems. The teeth themselves have a different shape than European teeth and have a distinctive "shovel-shape". Joan JYoung6180@aol.com

Dena wrote: > > > Two more genealogical truths: You can't determine relationships by > > how a name is spelled. And you can't determine ethnicity by the > > relative position of cheekbones or the color of hair! <g> > > > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> > > what about skin color Richard? Doesn't work either. The color tone difference between Arab and Apache isn't great enough for casual perception. Nor is the difference between "Northern Med" and Cherokee all that obvious. One of the enrolled Cherokee I happen to know doesn't look much like another enrolled Cherokee I know -- one's tall and sinewy, the other's short and brawny; one has chisled cheekbones, a nose that starts in his hair and a chin that hammers nails; the other doesn't; one could conceivably be called "copper-tone", the other has a faint tan. And, if memory serves, the one who looks most like the stereotypical Noble Savage has the least AmerInd ancestry. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> iriscrall@att.net writes: > > > Just wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions. However, it > > seems Ohio does not have a record for any State Census. > > According to the book "The Source", no actual state censuses were > taken for Ohio but there are lists of eligible voters called > quadrennial enumerations. Don't know if that would help or not. > > Edith <ECFensom@aol.com> Ohio became a state in 1803. In fact, tomorrow (March 1, 2003) Ohio is celebrating its Bicentennial of statehood. Every 4 years thereafter (i.e., in 1807, 1811, 1815, 1819, 1823, 1827, 1831, 1835, ...) a quadrennial enumeration of eligible voters was made in order to draw legislative districts of approximately equal population. I can only speak for Washington County, Ohio, where there are certain townships available for certain years, especially ca. the 1830s through the 1850s. Ernest Thode ernestthode@charter.net (Ernest Thode)

> > Two more genealogical truths: You can't determine relationships by > > how a name is spelled. And you can't determine ethnicity by the > > relative position of cheekbones or the color of hair! <g> > > > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> > > what about skin color Richard? > > "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com> Still doesn't tell you everything. In colouring, I'm a typical scot - fair hair and burn-before-sunbathing skin, but my mitochondrial DNA will tell you that I'm from Bombay, India, thanks to a slave at the Cape of Good Hope at the beginning of the 18th century. From that period, I also have Khoi Khoi, Sri Lankan and Indonesian ancestors. We need to use any and all evidence we can find, not rely on a single factor. Lesley Lesley Robertson <l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl>