hey, I have a ggm, Narcissa Avelvidere McWhorter b. July 8, 1861, and according to the Jackson family bible records, she was born in Madison co. TX. She married John D. Jackson, 1879. Now here is the problem that is so frustrating! No one has ever heard of her in any McWhorter family I have contacted. In 1870 she was living with G.W. Farris and wife Ann in Walker county Tx. by 1880 she was already married to my ggf John D. Jackson. She is not the child of Ann who married G.W. Farris, further checking found genealogy records, marriage, etc for both sides so that possibility has been ruled out as her being their child. There are a bunch of McWhorters in Grimes, Madison counties [tx]. But every one I have checked that could possibly be her parents, family members say there is no way, either they did not have another child, or didn't have any at all. I am assuming since she is living with a different family in 1870 that her parents both died. I am positive this ggm has to be related to the family of McWhorters in that area. I think most of them were descended from Hugh McWhorter born ca. 1759 Ireland, some went to Arkansas, some to Tnn but then most ended upin Grimes co. TX. How do you go about finding out or proving who this Narcissa's parents were? I have tried using the theory of what she named her children compared to what McWhorter names there are in the area, which you can tell several are from the McWhorter family, b.d. dates that could be her parents, talking to various family members, everything I persoanally know to do. Does anyone have suggestions? thanks! Dena "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com>

> > Jan 17, 2003 - Lisa wrote: > > The 1905 Providence RI City Directory has this listing for my > > greatgrandfather > > Henry A. Gaboriault > > Carpenter & Contractor > > Expert Market Refrigerator builder. > > Has anyone suggested that "Expert" may have been a typo for > "Export"? Shipping perishables a long distance would require > refrigeration, and Providence is a port. It's possible that your > ancestor built iceboxes to be used on ships. Or maybe trains, > especially if he was French Canadian. > > Since he was in business, did you check the directory for an ad for > his business? Looking at earlier and later directories could also > be useful. > > If you think the ship or train connection is a possibility, you > might look for ship and railroad companies that used Providence. > > Carol Botteron (that's French Swiss) <botteron@alum.mit.edu> > Maintainer, Civil War Units File Carol - Thanks for the suggestion. I never would have considered export. I found his ads in the City Directories of Providence - that's what got me wondering to begin with. He first appears in 1904, as the successor to Frank Campbell and Company, Contractor & Builder - Stores & Offices fitted up. [Frank Campbell moved to Bloomfied New Jersey, if anyone is looking for him] In 1905 the ad was about the same, with the addition of Expert market refrigerator Builder. The same ad appeared in 1906, then from 1907 - 1937 he was listed only as a carpenter. Lisa llepore@juno.com

List - FWIW- I think we were talking about this not too long ago? Just thought I would add this - While sending off my information on the market refrigerator ads for Henry Gaboriault, I just realized that Henry died 17 December 1936, but his business ad was still in the Providence RI City directory for 1937. The 1937 residential directory for Central Falls RI, where he lived, showed his wife as the widow of.... Don't know if this helps much..... Lisa llepore@juno.com

> Was a man wounded in the Civil war,who fought on the Confederate > side, able to draw a pension? The answer is yes and no. Yes, he might be able to draw a pension from his state, but no, he could not get a pension from the US govt. For Confederate pensions, I understand you have to go to the State Archives for his home state. NARA has the Union pension records. (URL in recent post about pensions.) stephanie fenton <stephfenton@mindspring.com>

> I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was > wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I > could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might > expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who > applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension > certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. > > "Frank Cullison" <fcullison@yahoo.com> I happen to have just received the widow's pension records for one of my ancestors from Washington DC last week. My ggggrandfather Johnson McGilvery had died in a prisoner's hospital in Lousiana in 1863. His widow Lavinia's file included an affidavit from another soldier from his company that he had died on that date in that hospital. Evidently, there were extra benefits for each child of the widow's under age 16. So, for those younger children, included on the application are exact birthdates for these children and affidavits from the physicians present at their birth. Also included was a letter from the county clerk where Lavinia and Johnson had been married certifying that she was indeed married to Johnson. The file also has a record of her death year, with a stamp that no further benefits should be sent due to death. Receipts of payments stretch from the 1860's to 1897 when she died. Melanie Greenberg "Melanie Greenberg" <mgreenberg@wideopenwest.com>

> Was a man wounded in the Civil war, who fought on the Confederate > side, able to draw a pension? > > Deana Smith "Dora Smith" deanae@alltel.net Hi Dora: This is from the NARA.gov web site: The veteran was eligible to apply for a pension to the State in which he lived, even if he served in a unit from a different State. Generally, an applicant was eligible for a pension only if he was indigent or disabled. In your letter to the repository, state the Confederate veteran's name, his widow's name, the unit(s) in which he served, and the counties in which he and his widow lived after the Civil War. Some repositories also have records of Confederate Homes (for veterans, widows, etc.), muster rolls of State Confederate militia, and other records related to the war. Even if he did not have a pension approved, an application may have been filed which will contain the genealogical information as per this discussion thread. ................. It's worth checking out. Glee <gleemc@earthlink.net>

> I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was > wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I > could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might > expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who > applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension > certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. > > "Frank Cullison" <fcullison@yahoo.com> You need to fill out National Archives form NATF 85. These forms are available by submitting an email request on the NARA website. NARA will then snail mail you the forms to fill out. Give as much information as known such as Soldier's name, unit, state served, widow or minor child listed on pension, etc. You have the pension number which is a big step. Ancestry has pension application cards digitized on their site. When you submit the form to NARA be patient. It may take several weeks. These records are worth the wait. You have the option of asking NARA to advise you when they find the forms and the cost or listing your credit card number on the form for immediate payment and mailing of the copies. Using a credit card seems to speed up the process considerably. If you have access to Ancestry, look for your relative in the Civil War Pension Application index. If you do not have access, let me know and I will do a lookup for you. The records of the pension applications (indexes, not full records) are also available on microfilm at NARA Regional offices. Mary Ann (Fryer) Westfall "MaryAnn Westfall" <matw70@columbus.rr.com>

> I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was > wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I > could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might > expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who > applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension > certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. > > Frank Cullison <fcullison@yahoo.com> Frank: I have Civil War Widow's pension applications from three states: Mississippi, Texas and Virginia. They contain a wealth of information: birth and date dates of the deceased; date and place of marriage; affidavits filed by others (often family) regarding the veteran's service, unit of service and dates, cause of death, etc. The National Archives has the applications. See the web site at: http://www.archives.gov/research_room/genealogy/military/pension_index_1861_to_1934.html In addition, I think it is easier to get them from the Family History Library microfilm rolls (fhl.org). Search by County/State/ then Military Records/Pensions. Depending on the state of application, you might also try the state archives. The library of virginia has downloadable images of Civil War Pension Applications at http://eagle.vsla.edu/conpen/ These pension records have been one of my best genealogical sources................. Glee Glee <gleemc@earthlink.net>

Frank Cullison wrote: > > I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was > wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I > could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might > expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who > applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension > certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. You will find a wealth of information! Mine contained; Medical reports on the veteran Application for pension Applications for pension increase Questionaire (1915) which lists the family details of the pensioner claims relating to payment of funeral expenses. If your relative survived to 1915, then the copy of the questionaire alone makes it worth getting. Dave Mayall <dave@research-group.co.uk>

Was a man wounded in the Civil war,who fought on the Confederate side, able to draw a pension? Deana Smith "Dora Smith" <deanae@alltel.net>

Phil Stevens wrote: > Hello guys , The Truth is : Everybody IS listed in / on the soundex cards > , Only the 1880 Soundex had children less than 10 years old listed , ALL > Others have EVERY Body , It matters Not what the last name is , Every > Family Group had a Card made for them , EACH person in the group was on that > card , IF there was a different Surname a separate card was made , WHICH > Says Enumerated with XXX name , and shows where to find it by Volume number > , etc Trust me Guys , I have looked at 1000`s of them cards > You see I live 20 minutes from the Archives , Phil > > > "bob gillis" <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > > > > If a person has the same surname as the HoH then he/she will not be > > > in the Soundex. Look for the sons and you will probably find him > > > with one. > > > > Bob, are you sure this is correct? > > > > I have copied all the PENCEs out of all the soundexes and it seems > > to me in almost every instance a parent living with a child has a > > separate listing even if the surname is the same. In the soundex > > indexes it is only the spouse and the children with the same surname > > as the HOH who aren't indexed. All others appear to be - i.e., > > nieces, nephews, daughter-in-laws, grandchildren, parents, etc., and > > those with difference surnames. > > > > However, if you are looking at, say, the index to the 1920 census at > > Ancestry.com, then the same-name parent may not have a separate > > index entry. > > > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> First, I will go along with what Richard Pence says although I think I have seen people with the same surname such as a brother, parent or another relative of the HoH, not having a separate Soundex Entry with his given name. There is a Soundex Entry, ie separate card, for John Jones. There will be no entry for Hattie Jones his wife nor his children as they are on John's card. And I don't think there will be a separate card for Matilda Jones, John's mother living with them. She will be on John's card as will everyine living in the household. Perhaps different states were done differently. The way the codes and the names are sorted is different depending on the state. I wonder if the Soundex Coding and Sorting instructions are available from the Census Bureau or NARA. (Not how to code a name but whom to give a separate entry.) I did not mean that they were not on the cards. I meant they did not have a separate card with their given name. bob gillis bob gillis <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net>

> > "bob gillis" <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > > > > If a person has the same surname as the HoH then he/she will not be > > > in the Soundex. Look for the sons and you will probably find him > > > with one. > > > > Bob, are you sure this is correct? > > > > I have copied all the PENCEs out of all the soundexes and it seems > > to me in almost every instance a parent living with a child has a > > separate listing even if the surname is the same. In the soundex > > indexes it is only the spouse and the children with the same surname > > as the HOH who aren't indexed. All others appear to be - i.e., > > nieces, nephews, daughter-in-laws, grandchildren, parents, etc., and > > those with difference surnames. > > > > However, if you are looking at, say, the index to the 1920 census at > > Ancestry.com, then the same-name parent may not have a separate > > index entry. > > > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> > > Hello guys, The Truth is: Everybody IS listed in / on the soundex > cards, Only the 1880 Soundex had children less than 10 years old > listed, ALL Others have EVERY Body, It matters Not what the last > name is, Every Family Group had a Card made for them, EACH person in > the group was on that card, IF there was a different Surname a > separate card was made, WHICH Says Enumerated with XXX name, and > shows where to find it by Volume number, etc Trust me Guys, I have > looked at 1000`s of them cards > You see I live 20 minutes from the Archives, Phil > > "Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com> Yeah, they're on the card, but (1) if you're looking to find out the parents of Eve1yn Sm!th who would have been 8 on the 1920 ... Lotta Sm!th cards to look at; and (2) if you're dealing with a name that CAN be misread -- like HARM!SON turns into HARR!SON or HARN!SON or HAMMER5ON and it changes the Soundex ... there are 4 or 5 times as many cards to look at. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

Mamawgen@aol.com fed this fish to the penguins: > Regarding copying by digital camera: I have used that method with > my 2.3 megapixel camera, but had to adjust the aim to since it is > not a single-lens type. I'm wondering if Debbie did not have to For any close work (close being <5 feet <G>) it is recommended that one use the LCD preview for alignment, not the optical viewfinder. This even applies to digital SLRs, as the optical viewfinders for SLRs typically only show 90-95% of the actual image. If you rely on the optical viewfinder you may be wasting pixels that could help render legible "copies". -- > ============================================================== < > wlfraed@ix.netcom.com | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG < > wulfraed@dm.net | Bestiaria Support Staff < > ============================================================== < > Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/ < > Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/ <

> I have several very old high school annuals in my possession from > which I would like to construct alumni lists for sharing with > others, but I don't know where to go to pass on this material. > > I tried using the RootsWeb Alumni lists facility but can't get it to > work (my system has no "save text with tabs" option, for example, > and their software refuses to accept any version I've got). > > Any suggestions about how to share this material? I know someone in > the future would be very interested in this info if I could just > figure out a way of getting it out there. Thanks. > > "Sky" <Sky-Diamonds@no-dreck-please.comcast.net> Contact the USGenWeb site for the county/counties involved. Keep in mind there may be privacy issues. Richard

"Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com> wrote: > Hello guys, The Truth is: Everybody IS listed in / on the > soundex cards Yes, Phil. However, if you are looking for a child or a spouse, you have to search by HOH, just as you would in a "regular" index. > Only the 1880 Soundex had children less than 10 years old > listed Actually, what the 1880 U.S. census soundex has is any family with a child age 10 or less (NOT less than 10). This soundex was created so that those who were born in 1870 or later might have a means of establishing their age and eligibility for Social Security. (Those born before 1870 were not eligible.) > ALL Others have EVERY Body, It matters Not what the last > name is, Every Family Group had a Card made for them, EACH > person in the group was on that card, IF there was a different > Surname a separate card was made, WHICH Says Enumerated > with XXX name, and shows where to find it by Volume number, etc The above is true for 1900 and 1920. The soundexes for 1910 and 1930 include only part of the states. And it most certainly DOES make a difference what the surname is. If a person is a spouse or a child of the HOH, then that person will NOT have a separate soundex card. The point of the previous message was that parents and other relatives with the same surname DO have a separate card. It matters not that every person is on a soundex card, what matters is how you go about locating an individual - in his or her separate card or as a part of the card for the HOH. This is exactly the same search process whether you are using the soundex or an on-line index. And - such as some of them are - there are INDEXES for EVERY U.S. Census. There are soundexes for 1880 (part), 1900, 1910 (about half), 1920 and 1930 (a few states). > Trust me Guys, I have looked at 1000`s of them cards If it makes any difference, I also have looked at many thousand such cards, having extracted most of the PENCE, PENSE, PENTZ families for each of the years for which there is a soundex (except the partials in 1930). > You see I live 20 minutes from the Archives You are fortunate and I know it is a convenience for you. But for those of us not quite so fortunate, it really is no longer necessary for most researchers to make the trip to the Archives. In your case it is a branch with, presumably, free parking. In my case it is in downtown DC. Three trips to the Archives to check a census records and I have spent more on parking alone than the cost of a subscription to Ancestry.com. If I were to go to the Archives as often as I know do on-line census research (several times a day), I'd be bankrupt! <g> Richard "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com>

I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. Frank Cullison "Frank Cullison" <fcullison@yahoo.com>

Sharon wrote: >Don't be so certain those high cheek bones and long dark hair aren't >from Native American ancestry. It seems I remember corresponding >with a lady in Australia on the Metisgen list who is descended from >Native Americans. I believe some were sent from Canada in part of >the effort to remove Indians from Canada. And if I remember >correctly, her husband may be gypsy. There as a very great deal of population movement all over during the turmoil of the 60 years between about the French & Indian War and the end of the Napoleonic Wars. Certainly without it Australia would never have been considered, and it takes little to deduce the diverse range of people moving back and forth as a result. Two daughters of the family I mentioned did indeed marry sailors and went off variously to the Pacific Islands and the Americas. But that was much later. The two original brothers carrying that family name had been in Tasmania where was murdered by convicts and the other took off for the Swan River colony where he was speared by an Aboriginal in 1841. But that says nothing of the women of the family, or their origins. In the one photo we have the daughters are all very striking, while the mother is dressed in very traditional Irish fashion. I doubt however that they originated in the Americas. The two girls married and went from here, not the other way around. I would be interested to know where your Canadians had been sent, and when. It is all very interesting to me. Gil Gil Hardwick <gruagach@highway1.com.au>

Singhals wrote: > You know, faking a pedigree is darn near as much work as researching > one. > > I've been trying to build a pedigree for a fictional character whose > ancestry as given involves Massachusetts, Wisconsin, and Washington > State. There are 4 surnames specified. > > I figured it would be a piece of cake, using WorldConnect, the > message boards, Familysearch's AF and PRF, and Ancestry and > Genealogy.com's GEDCOM depositories. I was wrong. Think I can find > any two of the surnames in the same place in the same decade? You don't have to go to that much trouble. If a surname is common you'll find it everywhere, and close to everywhere else. Marriages between people from different parts of a state were never unknown, and grew more frequent with time. New England families that moved west often intermarried with others who hailed from completely different parts of New England. This phenomenon has created some of my own toughest problems. Actually, it's probably best if your four surnames do *not* geographically coincide. That would effectively remove all chance of coincidence with any real family living or dead. For good measure you could also try falsifying every specific place, much in the manner of Jewett's Dunnet's Landing or Hardy's Casterbridge. Personally I have to wonder what sort of fiction is involved in the creation of this pedigree. One of the fundamental lessons for writing anything -- especially fiction -- is to avoid overwriting, for instance by including superfluous details and then agonizing over how to justify them. On this score, you can never fault Donald Lines Jacobus for overwriting. He would often write on how research for "a client" required a certain record or search method. Usually these case histories would extend no farther than the result of that specific search. Jacobus would often give no surname at all, and if he did he would be certain to make up a false one. A very brief sampling of this type of exposition will be found in _Genealogy as Pastime and Profession_, rev. ed. (Baltimore, 1968), chap. 17. > All of which gives me a great appreciation for those bogus medieval > pedigrees which are now being proven wrong. It takes talent to get > that close with no ready-access to records and still be wrong. ;) > > Cheryl <singhals@erols.com> I don't think too many professional medievalists would see the humor. We can be sure that bogus genealogists in any day aren't interested in what the records say. And "bogus" is not just a matter of getting facts wrong; it also involves deceiving the client and besmirching genealogists in general. Austin W. Spencer "Austin W. Spencer" <AustinWSpencer@cox.net>

> > I've run in to a wall, that I don't know how to climb over. I found > > my ggrandfather listed on the 1910 and 1930 Census, but I can't seem > > to find him anywhere in the 1920. Is there a specific way to go > > about finding someone who is not indexed? Or am I stuck with going > > through every page in a five county radius to search for him? Any > > suggestions, ideas, or help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Carrie Marsh <carrie1@attglobal.net> > > Indexes are shortcuts which sometimes work, and sometimes don't! > > <good suggestions snipped ... > > > Mary Bakeman <mbakeman@parkbooks.com> Hello Carrie, Mary and list, Your search is Simple, USE the Soundex!! You will need to get the films from NARA or at the LDS, whatever you can do, BUT, you will find him IF you use the Soundex for 1920. Only once Have I failed to find someone in the Soundex System, Turns out he died 3 days before the Enumeration was done! Phil "Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com>

> "bob gillis" <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > > If a person has the same surname as the HoH then he/she will not be > > in the Soundex. Look for the sons and you will probably find him > > with one. > > Bob, are you sure this is correct? > > I have copied all the PENCEs out of all the soundexes and it seems > to me in almost every instance a parent living with a child has a > separate listing even if the surname is the same. In the soundex > indexes it is only the spouse and the children with the same surname > as the HOH who aren't indexed. All others appear to be - i.e., > nieces, nephews, daughter-in-laws, grandchildren, parents, etc., and > those with difference surnames. > > However, if you are looking at, say, the index to the 1920 census at > Ancestry.com, then the same-name parent may not have a separate > index entry. > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> Hello guys, The Truth is: Everybody IS listed in / on the soundex cards, Only the 1880 Soundex had children less than 10 years old listed, ALL Others have EVERY Body, It matters Not what the last name is, Every Family Group had a Card made for them, EACH person in the group was on that card, IF there was a different Surname a separate card was made, WHICH Says Enumerated with XXX name, and shows where to find it by Volume number, etc Trust me Guys, I have looked at 1000`s of them cards You see I live 20 minutes from the Archives, Phil "Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com>