> Glee, > > In the 1910 Census I have found him listed as: > Pa., Clarion County, Perry Twp.- > RIDDLE, W. Oscar, Head, Age 32, Married, P.O.B.: Pa., Laborer, Coal Mines > RIDDLE, Margaret, Wife, Age 32, Married, P.O.B.:Pa. > RIDDLE, Norman, Son, Age 7 > RIDDLE, Julia, Daughter, Age 5 > RIDDLE, Cataline, Daughter, Age 11 mos. > > > In the 1930 Census he is listed as: > Pa., Venango County, Oil City- > RIDDLE, William O., Head, Age 52, Married, P.O.B.: Pa., Manager, ? Grocery > RIDDLE, Margaret, Wife, Age 51, Married, P.O.B.: Pa. > RIDDLE, James O., Son, Age 17, Single, P.O.B.:Pa., Apprentice, Meat Market > > I know where Norman is in 1920, but I can't seem to find the rest of > the family. I've searched the indexes for the entire country, and > they aren't listed as being anywhere. The two counties, Clarion and > Venango, are right next door to each other, and there is no verbal > family history of them being anywhere else at this time. I'm > stumped as to what to do next..... > > Carrie Marsh <carrie1@attglobal.net> Carrie: Here is what I tried: William Riddle (soundex) all ages State of PA Riddle (soundex) ages 41 42 and 43 state of Pennsylvania Oscar Riddle (soundex) all ages state of PA W Riddle (soundex) PA O ____Riddle (soundex) PA Kate Riddle (soundex) PA Cataline Riddle (soundex) PA Cate Riddle (soundex) PA Margaret Riddle (soundex) Pa Marguerite Riddle (soundex) PA Maggie Riddle (soundex) PA James Riddle (soundex) ages 6, 7, 8 PA All Riddles (soundex in Clarion County PA............. Looked at all households to see if they were hiding with a relative All Riddles (soundex) in Vanango PA ............looked at all enumerations I found three of the 1930 neigbors in the 1920 census: Clyde Sawatake Joseph Adams Ralph anderson ................. William Riddle and family no where to be found................. I HATE to admit it, but I can't find them! I defer to someone tougher than I am The only other suggeestion, if you have the information, is to look for his parents and siblings in 1920............................. or his wife's family. Glee <gleemc@earthlink.net>

: Sky-Diamonds@no-dreck-please.comcast.net writes: : : > I tried using the RootsWeb Alumni lists facility but can't get it to : > work (my system has no "save text with tabs" option, for example, : > and their software refuses to accept any version I've got). : > : > Any suggestions about how to share this material? : : You do not need special software to transcribe the data from an : alumni list into a text delimited file for submitting to the : RootsWeb User databases. You can use any word processor and start : off by placing column headings for each "field" you wish to include : for each entry. For instance, you might wish to include Last name, : First name, year of graduation, address, notes. This is just an : example of possible column headings--you might wish to take a look : at the existing alumni databases to see what fields others have : included. Record each entry -- one per line, placing the data that : applies to that entry and field--separate each item by a comma or : other unique character not used elsewhere in the database. You must : remember to make your fields consistent so that the proper column : heading applies to the entries that fall under it. If you have a : field that is to remain blank just separate it by adding another : comma (delimiter) such as ,, (denotes a blank field). : : Joan <JYoung6180@aol.com> Thanks very much for the advice. I still can't make it work, though. Following your directions, I was able to get my text document accepted, however the questions screen at Rootsweb (next step after the basic submission) will not work for me. It's located here: http://userdb.rootsweb.com/submit/cgi-bin/dbsubmit.cgi?screen=mainform I'm supposed to answer several multiple-choice questions about how my document is set up, but whenever I go to question 2, the question page just disappears, along with any answers I was able to complete, so I have to start the q/a cycle over again (and again). I tried repeatedly to make it work but there's a bad glitch somewhere. Very frustrating. Thanks again for trying to help. **Sky * * * * People often find it easier to be the result of a past than a source for the future. "Sky" <Sky-Diamonds@no-dreck-please.comcast.net>

> In one of my Civil War packets was a certified copy of the family > Bible showing the soldier and his siblings birthdates and parents > marriage and birthdates as proof of his birth date. This was a > sibling of my ancestor, who was one of the daughters of the family. > Pays to go after siblings info too. > > In another family I sent for the records of the two sons who went to > war. My ancestor was in his early teens. There were letters > describing the family life, the measles that killed one of the boys > and the father, when he went to pick up his son, brought back the > measles which killed one of the younger children at home. The > paperwork said everyone got the measles and all were much weaken by > them. > > There was a lot of genealogical info also but the picture of the > family's life after the civil war was of great interest. > > "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net> Can someone on this list tell me whether or not Confederate veterans received pensions? Jean

Where would we look for medical records of Confederate soldiers? I'm interested in Virginia, but info for other states would probably help other researchers. Thanx! Carol Botteron (that's French Swiss) <botteron@alum.mit.edu> Maintainer, Civil War Units File

> Hello Carrie, Mary and list, Your search is Simple, USE the >Soundex!! You will need to get the films from NARA or at the LDS, >whatever you can do, BUT, you will find him IF you use the Soundex >for 1920. > > Only once Have I failed to find someone in the Soundex System, >Turns out he died 3 days before the Enumeration was done! Phil > >"Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com> In theory, this should work, but _only_ if the first letter of the surname was transcribed correctly! The surname in question, Riddle, could easily have been transcribed as Biddle. On another aspect of this question, I know that there were at least some areas that were not enumerated in 1920. I know exactly where my grandparents were living; I know exactly who their neighbors were. None of them shows up in the index at ancestry.com. I have scrolled through all the images for the area where they lived. This block was skipped! Perhaps that is what happened to the Riddle family. I would suggest to the original poster (Carrie Marsh) whether there are city directories available for the area of PA that you are focusing on. Check the Library of Congress web site; the microform reading room page has a list, by state, of city directories that they have on microfilm, by year. (I realize that you are not located in Washington, DC, but that is a hurdle down the line.) Janet M. Simons jsimons@childrensdefense.org

> > I always order the full file. > > I do too. A cousin in my husband's line located us, and the rest of > her REAL family through her ggf's Civil War pension file! Her > entire family thought their last name was PECK throughout their > lives. They ran into such brick walls researching that name that > she & her mother even hired a professional genealogist, who came up > with an entire multi-generation Peck family tree for them,! Lo and > behold, when the file came, GGrandpa John Peck's parents names were > given as William & Maria BECK -- & they had to start over at square > one. We will probably never know why he changed the spelling. > > We also learned that another Civil War veteran's wife died of > Typhoid Fever -- we had always assumed she died in childbirth. That > one also had his physical description, & correspondence about the > pension in his own handwriting. Of course there was also a lot of > useless (genealogically speaking) pay records, but what we received > was certainly worth the $37.50 -- I've spent more for some books & > CDs and gotten a lot less! It is a "crap-shoot", however -- you > never know if it will be treasure, or mostly trash. > > "Virginia Beck" <ginia2@san.rr.com> Virginia, My experience has been, unless you know for sure there is something specific in a particular book or CD or whatever, you will end up with trash. Very few of the books I have purchased have had anything helpful in them. Books and CD's are a crapshoot. Perhaps my experiences have not been the norm. The pension files have been an exception. Roberta "Wohlgemuths" <fredroby@adelphia.net>

HI: I have to add my voice in praise of the Civil War pension records. My ggrandfather was in the U.S. Colored Troops in Kentucky. I got his pension/military records back in 1991. It included a physical description, the names of his children, the date of his marriage, conducted by a free black minister, and a long description of his illness after he was discharged, by his final slave owner's son, who was a doctor. It advanced my research into the family by 100 percent. KBerry See my Berry/Long/Brown family genealogy Web site: <A HREF="http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/e/r/Karin-D-Berry/index.html?Welcome=1046967719">Family Tree Maker's Genealogy Site: User Home Pages: Moses Berry: A Kentucky Soldier's Journey to Freedom</A> Kdberr1@aol.com

All of this talk about Civil War pension records reminds me that I would like to get ahold of the WWI service records for my grandfather - can anyone tell me how I might go about this? Leah Prescott leah_prescott@msn.com

> I have a ggm, Narcissa Avelvidere McWhorter b. July 8, 1861, and > according to the Jackson family bible records, she was born in > Madison co. TX. She married John D. Jackson, 1879. > > Now here is the problem that is so frustrating! No one has ever > heard of her in any McWhorter family I have contacted. > > In 1870 she was living with G.W. Farris and wife Ann in Walker > county Tx. by 1880 she was already married to my ggf John D. > Jackson. > > She is not the child of Ann who married G.W. Farris, further > checking found genealogy records, marriage, etc for both sides so > that possibility has been ruled out as her being their child. > > There are a bunch of McWhorters in Grimes, Madison counties [tx]. > But every one I have checked that could possibly be her parents, > family members say there is no way, either they did not have another > child, or didn't have any at all. I am assuming since she is living > with a different family in 1870 that her parents both died. > > I am positive this ggm has to be related to the family of McWhorters > in that area. I think most of them were descended from Hugh > McWhorter born ca. 1759 Ireland, some went to Arkansas, some to Tnn > but then most ended upin Grimes co. TX. > > How do you go about finding out or proving who this Narcissa's > parents were? I have tried using the theory of what she named her > children compared to what McWhorter names there are in the area, > which you can tell several are from the McWhorter family, b.d. dates > that could be her parents, talking to various family members, > everything I persoanally know to do. > > "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com> Death certificate? Obituary? Regards, Richard

Hello, The National Archives microfilm roll (M259-24) for New Orleans passenger arrivals for 1845 is missing the first 3 months of the year. I have transcribed the lists from a separate and somewhat obscure WPA transcription (M2009) for these 3 months and put them online here... New Orleans Passenger Lists Jan, Feb, March 1845 http://www.genesearch.com/neworleans/ These records are free to search. I'm posting this to show that there are often other resources available for immigration records besides the standard NARA microfilms and indexes. If you come across something that seems to be missing, keep digging. You may find an alternate path to the same place or nearly the same place, anyway :) Good luck with your searches. Regards, Joe joe@genesearch.com

> > iriscrall@att.net writes: > > > > > Just wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions. However, it > > > seems Ohio does not have a record for any State Census. > > > > According to the book "The Source", no actual state censuses were > > taken for Ohio but there are lists of eligible voters called > > quadrennial enumerations. Don't know if that would help or not. > > > > Edith <ECFensom@aol.com> > > Ohio became a state in 1803. In fact, tomorrow (March 1, 2003) Ohio > is celebrating its Bicentennial of statehood. Every 4 years > thereafter (i.e., in 1807, 1811, 1815, 1819, 1823, 1827, 1831, 1835, > ...) a quadrennial enumeration of eligible voters was made in order > to draw legislative districts of approximately equal population. > > I can only speak for Washington County, Ohio, where there are > certain townships available for certain years, especially ca. the > 1830s through the 1850s. > > ernestthode@charter.net (Ernest Thode) How do you use find this voting record? My great grand Father Samuel W. Phipps was from Washington County, Ohio in 1850 is the earliest I can find him. Thanks Evelynn herringe@charter.net

In one of my Civil War packets was a certified copy of the family Bible showing the soldier and his siblings birthdates and parents marriage and birthdates as proof of his birth date. This was a sibling of my ancestor, who was one of the daughters of the family. Pays to go after siblings info too. In another family I sent for the records of the two sons who went to war. My ancestor was in his early teens. There were letters describing the family life, the measles that killed one of the boys and the father, when he went to pick up his son, brought back the measles which killed one of the younger children at home. The paperwork said everyone got the measles and all were much weaken by them. There was a lot of genealogical info also but the picture of the family's life after the civil war was of great interest. Joan B "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net>

> I always order the full file. I do too. A cousin in my husband's line located us, and the rest of her REAL family through her ggf's Civil War pension file! Her entire family thought their last name was PECK throughout their lives. They ran into such brick walls researching that name that she & her mother even hired a professional genealogist, who came up with an entire multi-generation Peck family tree for them,! Lo and behold, when the file came, GGrandpa John Peck's parents names were given as William & Maria BECK -- & they had to start over at square one. We will probably never know why he changed the spelling. We also learned that another Civil War veteran's wife died of Typhoid Fever -- we had always assumed she died in childbirth. That one also had his physical description, & correspondence about the pension in his own handwriting. Of course there was also a lot of useless (genealogically speaking) pay records, but what we received was certainly worth the $37.50 -- I've spent more for some books & CDs and gotten a lot less! It is a "crap-shoot", however -- you never know if it will be treasure, or mostly trash. Virginia "Virginia Beck" <ginia2@san.rr.com>

> JOAN REPLIES: Do you know Ann's maiden name? She might be a sister > or cousin or the child of a sister of G.W. Farris. I would explore > collateral relatives of the Farris couple first. I have found a > number of people that way. > > JOAN REPLIES: > I have found the family memory regarding ancestors who died or moved > away when young is often lost. Don't take the the families' word as > gospel. You are probably right in suggesting the parents died. > They must have died between 1860 and 1870. I suggest that you check > the probate records for that period for the relavent counties. > First determine how Texas courts filed these records. In the east, > when their was no will the major documents are found in Orphan's > Court instead of Probate Court. Because she was a minor there is > probably some disposition of her parents property and a designation > of guardian. An early discussion on this list about indenture > indicated that the mechinism for some orphans in the mid-1800s was > an indenture contract. > > "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net> Thanks Joan, I will check that 'Farris' line out a little further. I did find that his wife Ann, was Ann Judson Upton, daughter of Thomas Upton and Annie Yearout who married in Tn. GW had a lot of sibs, but so far can't find any in 1880 census online, will have to dig a bit deeper on that one. G.W. Farris had several different people with different surnames living with them in 1870 and 1880 census. I am thinking maybe since they didn't (showing) have any children, they took them in as their own, or just to 'help' out maybe. He showed to be fairly well off. He also was in Walker Co. Tx which may be where narcissa was born instead of Madison Co. I'll have to check that out better too, with various spellings. thanks so much!! dena "Dena" <dena@dbnetmall.com>

For clarification in the Archive: Singhals wrote: > > Dena wrote: > > > I was wondering about changing childrens names when the mother has > > been widowed and remarries around 1850's. Did they have to go thru > > some legal steps, or could the mother and step father "unofficially" > > change the childrens as if they were adopted by the father? > > From my personal experience searching those things -- > > There were no official steps to be taken, so no one took them. > Adoption as we know it is an early 20th century construct. The key phrase in that last sentence is *AS WE KNOW IT* -- that is, an adoption in the circumstances outlined in the OP, or adoption by ONE non-birth parent of the children of the spouse/birthparent. Adoption itself (by two persons unrelated to the child) can be documented well into antiquity. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> Was a man wounded in the Civil war,who fought on the Confederate > side, able to draw a pension? > > "Dora Smith" <deanae@alltel.net> If he lived in a Southern State and fought in a unit from that state, yes, he probably got a pension. You'll have to check the state from which he served or lived, because these aren't part of the Federal Government's collection at NARA. If he lived in an officially Union state and fought for the Confederacy, no, he didn't get a pension. (Union states didn't pay Confederate Pensions.) Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> I haven't done any research in Civil War Veterans records and was > wondering if anyone with experience in this area could tell me how I > could do this, such as where I might write and also what I might > expect to find in these records. I have a GGG grandmother who > applied for a Veterans pension in 1907 and it gave the pension > certificate number. Any advice would be appreciated. > > "Frank Cullison" <fcullison@yahoo.com> The National Archives uses form NATF 85 to handle requests for copies of federal pension or bounty land warrant applications from every conflict prior to World War I. The address Glee gave lists the rolls in the index to pension files and tells of the facilities where the index can be searched. To order the form online, go here: <http://www.archives.gov/research_room/obtain_copies/military_and_genealogy_order_forms.html> The form will ask for everything you know that is genealogically significant: at least the name, state of service, branch of service, and home state. If known, you should also give the unit (if your soldier served in more than one, be sure to list all of them), arm (infantry, cavalry, artillery), file number, birth and death, whether an officer or an enlisted man, and whether a volunteer or in the regular establishment. If the index lists a widow or other claimant, you should give her name as well. There is a space on the form for each of these items. You will also be asked to specify whether you want the entire file or, for about half the price, a "Pension Documents Packet." (In 2001 the rates were $37.00 for the full file and $14.75 for the packet. I don't know whether they have changed.) The packet is supposed to include eight documents, or at least all of the eight that can now be found: 1. Declaration of pension 2. Declaration of widow's pension 3. Adjutant general statements of service 4. Questionnaires completed by applicants 5. "Pension Dropped" cards (indicating when pensioner died) 6. Marriage certificates 7. Death certificates 8. Discharge certificate There are two methods of payment. You may give a credit card number on the form, and the National Archives will send copies back immediately if a file is found matching your description. Or, check the BILL ME box, and they will send an invoice once they find the file, payable within 45 days. If they receive your check or money order within that time, they will send copies. The longest wait is for National Archives searchers to locate the file, pension records being in demand. I always order the full file. It will include medical information if the soldier claims that he was disabled in the service. It usually includes sworn affidavits of witnesses to marriages and births of children. The identities of these witnesses can in themselves offer genealogical clues, and sometimes information is buried in the less obvious places. I have a copy of one pension file in which a deponent testified to being the pensioner's brother, to having known the pensioner's widow "since childhood," and to knowing that she was not married before she married the pensioner. When the widow applied for a pension increase, she gave her own birth date and place -- at a time and place when no birth certificates were kept. I doubt that this information would have surfaced had I not ordered the entire file. Good luck. Austin W. Spencer "Austin W. Spencer" <AustinWSpencer@cox.net>

From: "Diane Y. Smith Royer" > I just bought some law books from the 1860s Wisconsin. I found > children's name changes in them, their names and the new names. I > have to look at them again. I don't know if they were adoptions or > an adoption by the step parent, or if I could tell. JOAN REPLIES: I didn't mean to imply that there were no legal names changes, only that names were often changed without going through the legal process when the mother married again and changed her name. "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net>

Dena asked about > I have a ggm, Narcissa Avelvidere McWhorter b. July 8, 1861, and > according to the Jackson family bible records, she was born in > Madison co. TX. She married John D. Jackson, 1879. > > In 1870 she was living with G.W. Farris and wife Ann in Walker > county Tx. by 1880 she was already married to my ggf John D. > Jackson. > > She is not the child of Ann who married G.W. Farris, further > checking found genealogy records, marriage, etc for both sides so > that possibility has been ruled out as her being their child. JOAN REPLIES: Do you know Ann's maiden name? She might be a sister or cousin or the child of a sister of G.W. Farris. I would explore collateral relatives of the Farris couple first. I have found a number of people that way. > There are a bunch of McWhorters in Grimes, Madison counties [tx]. > But every one I have checked that could possibly be her parents, > family members say there is no way, either they did not have another > child, or didn't have any at all. I am assuming since she is living > with a different family in 1870 that her parents both died. > > I am positive this ggm has to be related to the family of > McWhorters in that area. I think most of them were descended from > Hugh McWhorter born ca. 1759 Ireland, some went to Arkansas, some > to Tnn but then most ended upin Grimes co. TX. JOAN REPLIES: I have found the family memory regarding ancestors who died or moved away when young is often lost. Don't take the the families' word as gospel. You are probably right in suggesting the parents died. They must have died between 1860 and 1870. I suggest that you check the probate records for that period for the relavent counties. First determine how Texas courts filed these records. In the east, when their was no will the major documents are found in Orphan's Court instead of Probate Court. Because she was a minor there is probably some disposition of her parents property and a designation of guardian. An early discussion on this list about indenture indicated that the mechinism for some orphans in the mid-1800s was an indenture contract. "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net>

> Dena asked: > > > I was wondering about changing childrens names when the mother has > > been widowed and remarries around 1850's. Did they have to go > > thru some legal steps, or could the mother and step father > > "unofficially"change the childrens as if they were adopted by the > > father? > > Formal requirements for changing children's names did not occur > until the 1970s in the US. The change occurred when schools began > requiring birth certificates upon enrollment and began insisting on > calling the child the name on the birth certificate rather than the > name used by the family. Before that schools used the name the > family used on the enrollment form, no birth certificate required. > [For which I, for one, am happy. My birth certificate reads > Harriett Joan Best, Harriett being my mother's name, but never used > by the family. I was enrolled as "Joan Best" and all school and > work records are under that name. When I divorced my name was > legally changed to "Joan Best".] As for taking the step-father's > name, that was extremely common, often so the children would not be > teased or the family looked down on. My first husband and sister > took their step-father's name, though never adopted. He used it the > rest of his life and our children and grandchildren carried on the > step-father's surname. > > Interesting how a law regulating schools has such far-reaching > effect. It is my impression, from working in the field, that one of > the other effects is to increase formal adoption by step-parents. I > think the intent of the law was one of the first attempts to find > children "kidnapped" by one parent. > > "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net> I just bought some law books from the 1860s Wisconsin. I found children's name changes in them, their names and the new names. I have to look at them again. I don't know if they were adoptions or an adoption by the step parent, or if I could tell. Diane "Diane Y. Smith Royer" <dysmithroyer@dtgnet.com>