Celia Mitschelen wrote: > > Hi Cheryl, > > I have an 1823 dictionary, I know that is a century later than your > problem but it is at least a century closer to it than modern ones. > I can find no use of Fischer other than in connection with fish and > fishing. > > You have had enough experience to know that you should have included > the name of the town and area involved. Someone might know > something that does not show up on average modern maps. Often, though, Celia, when I put in specifics, people who don't know that particular place leave it to someone who does and evidently there isn't anyone who does. (g) In any event, there isn't one place, it's a series of places that sort of sift, time-wise, south from Westenbrugge to Neu Kloster, one entry here, one there, another somewhere else. There are three lakes in/near parish entries, but not near the parish where this one shows as a fisherman. :( Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> Cheryl, > > My German/English dictionary certainly says it is a fisherman!!! Fiesta Are you sure of the spelling????? Maybe he was a 'fleischer' or in English a butcher. Heather "Heather Olsen" <kitchen6@earthlink.net>

Hi Cheryl, I have an 1823 dictionary, I know that is a century later than your problem but it is at least a century closer to it than modern ones. I can find no use of Fischer other than in connection with fish and fishing. You have had enough experience to know that you should have included the name of the town and area involved. Someone might know something that does not show up on average modern maps. Celia "Celia Mitschelen" <cmitsch@ix.netcom.com>

Although anglers fished professionally in the rivers and streams of Europe, there were plenty of farmed fish as well, esp. carp. These were essential both for people who couldn't afford red meat and also because of the Catholic church's promotion of fish on Fridays and Saint's days. These food practises continued even if a region became Protestant. B.G. Wiehle bgwiehle@quadro.net

Cheryl, My German/English dictionary certainly says it is a fisherman!!! Try this site for maps of Germany. They've got some good maps of Germany, both old and new!!! <http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe.html> Richard F Strait <rfstrait@juno.com>

> A man is described in a parish register as being a fischer. I have > been assuming he fished (as in, caught fish to fry for dinner) and > sold 'em to make a living. > > However ... I've spent two days both on-line and in the brick > library (which needs better maps!) trying to find a river in his > vicinity and came up -- er, dry. (Wish I could find that tourist > map of Germany I had.) > > Is there something *else* the word fischer might have meant in the > 18th century? > > Cheryl <singhals@erols.com> Hello Cheryl, A fischer is a fisherman so you got it right. Perhaps there was a lake nearby? If you post the name of the town maybe others can help with the geography of the area. Good luck with your search. Regards, Joe -- German Roots: German Genealogy Resources http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/ joe@genesearch.com

Dianne Jones wrote to me: > Thank you for your response. My grandfather was Sterling Price Holland, born > March 6, 1862 in Clinton, Henry County, MO. > Are you talking about the on-line census version? If so, I have tried doing > a search on the Ancestry.com census records. As I stated I have done a > page/page search of their census records. I meant the LDS Version. And entering Sterling Holland born 1862 I found: I would copy it but the web based format makes it much too long. Dianne can find it and print it out herself. The Census Place was District 23, Brown (County?) Texas bob gillis bob gillis <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net>

A man is described in a parish register as being a fischer. I have been assuming he fished (as in, caught fish to fry for dinner) and sold 'em to make a living. However ... I've spent two days both on-line and in the brick library (which needs better maps!) trying to find a river in his vicinity and came up -- er, dry. (Wish I could find that tourist map of Germany I had.) Is there something *else* the word fischer might have meant in the 18th century? Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> Steve Morse, who has a "search portal" which provides enhanced > search capability for those seeking information at Ellis Island has > added some notable improved search capabilities for the 1920 and > 1930 census images at Ancestry.com (must be a subscriber of > Ancestry). Among the added search capabilities are "ends with." > which would allow a search for different first letters in a name. > > There are also routines for finding an ED from street, etc. > > It is here: > http://www.stevemorse.org/ > > "Richard A. Pence" richardpence@pipeline.com Thanks, Richard! I feel like a little kid in a candy store with this web site.................... Now if he would make the same type of wildcard search for genealogy.com census indexes (sigh!)

> Hmmm...Cheryl is correct here in that the Ancestry search engine > doesn't support leading wildcards. The Ancestry Daily News had an > article about using wildcards when searching database at Ancestry on > or about Oct. 17, 2001 and I quote from that article: "Due to the > nature and size of the data being searched and the need to deliver > speedy search results, the use of wildcards is restricted to > keywords and names that have at least the first three letters > specified." Hello all, I am truly not trying to start something here, but I am absolutely positive that there is a way to use a leading wildcard with Ancestry, as I have done it successfully with 2 different names. It cannot be done with your initial search, only when you are refining your results. I am not sure if I explained it before, I am a newbie myself, and found this method accidentally, not even knowing at the time that it was called a "wildcard" search. May I explain it again? I will do it with the specific search I did this for. First I did Search Records for Joseph Polasik, soundex, US, all states, census. There were 659 results for 1930, the census year I was missing. I clicked on that census, got the first 10 names of the index and the refine search box. That is when I used the wildcard. I entered Joseph ?olasik, soundex, US, all states. Over 5000 results with that, so I switched to his wife's name, Pelagia, again with wildcard. That gave me 30 matches. I got a Pelagia Rolasik in Florida that sounded good, so I then did an exact search for Rolasik in Florida, and there they were, Joseph, Pelagia, and daughter. I went and then found another ancestor, August Pranke indexed as August Brunke, with this same technique. I realize now that there are other ways I could have found them, but I won't complain, this one has worked for me. I think it actually helped me to be a newbie, I didn't know what I wasn't supposed to do! Carolyn Cptoehedd@aol.com

<Patscga@aol.com> wrote: > > jonesn8@attbi.com writes: > > > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > > single male? > > I'm afraid I don't understand your problem. Why do you need to know > where he was living when he was 18 years old? No doubt a matter of family history rather than pedigree. I find several in my trees as live in apprentices for example and in neigbouring parishes Hugh W "Hugh Watkins" <hugh_watkins@net.dialog.dk>

Patscga@aol.com wrote: > ... Why do you need to know >where he was living when he was 18 years old? Presumably because the information may indicate something about his life at that point. Anecdotal: I found my grandfather and his parents etc in the 1881 (Great Britain) census. His brother of 7 was with an unrelated family 100 miles away. I asked my father, who said that his uncle would have been visiting (for pleasure or a short period of good country air), and then told me what he had been told as a child of the friendship between the families, of the business history of the other family, and of how, when the son of the other family had died, they had brought in a bright young man to develop as an alternative future manager of the business - who later married my great-aunt, having met her when *she* was visiting the family friends. myths@ic24.net

Singhals fed this fish to the penguins: > Uhhh ... I thought that was what you were saying? (g) Anyway -- the No, I /manually/ went through searching "bie...", "cie...", "die..." -- I did skip the vowels, on the hope that not even the worst notation would turn into "aie..." (or "eie..." <G>). -- > ============================================================== < > wlfraed@ix.netcom.com | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG < > wulfraed@dm.net | Bestiaria Support Staff < > ============================================================== < > Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/ < > Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/ <

> Trying to trace grandfather through the census. > > Known facts: b. 1862, Clinton Henry Co MO > 1870 Census - Dallas Co TX with parents/siblings > 1880 Census - not found, parents/siblings found in Hill Co TX. Older > sister not listed with parents/siblings at this time either > 1883 - marries, place unknown > 1900 Census - Johnson Co TX > 1910 Census - Hill Co TX > 1920 Census - Johnson Co TX > d. 1926, Ft Worth Tarrant Co TX > > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > single male? I have done a page/page search of the 1880 census > records for Dallas Co, Hill Co, and Johnson Co TX. > > "Dianne Jones" <jonesn8@attbi.com> Don't give up on the census yet. If I found Maynardier, you can probably find your guy. First off, are you certain all those counties were separate counties in 1880? (I'd guess so, because you said you looked at each of 'em, but I thought I'd ask, because if x county was still part of b county ...) Go over to www.familysearch.org, click SEARCH and then click CENSUS (THEN select 1880 US if it'll let you; sometimes it doesn't). I use the CDs, so I don't remember how much of this the site will permit -- specify SURNAME, Texas, male, birthday =/- 2 years. Eyeball it -- anyone have a name that matches your GF's first or middle name? that matches his initials (either in right or wrong order)? Still no BINGO? Then repeat, using his mother's maiden name instead of his surname. Eyeball it, same flags. Still nothing? Repeat, using the surname of the men his sisers married. Still zero? If his surname is common, this will now take several tries; repeat the search using his surname, his given name, and no state, no age. (I have one guy who showed up on the census index aged 97; he was actually 41, but the 4 was sloppy and the 1 was worse.) Repeat with his middle name, then with his initials. If you're still not finding him, drive over to the nearest FHC that isn't on-line and use the 1880 census CDs, which will permit you to search all of Texas for his given name (unless it's John or William, this helps). Look for his future wife's family. Look for the future in-laws of his siblings; look at the nearest establishment of higher learning. (We're still in the census now.) If you're still drawing a blank, there are a couple possibilities -- the good one is, his name is so mangled either on the index or in the census itself that you will hardly recognize it when you see it; the bad one is, he was missed. If the census enumerator called in at the ranch during roundup, branding, haying, or calfing, chances are good that there were so many people around 10% to 20% simply didn't get counted because the enumerator lost track of who he'd talked to and who he hadn't...or because the farm wife was too busy trying to put a hot meal on the table to answer his fool questions. Now, you figure out if Texas had any sort of personal property taxes in 1880 (prolly not, it doesn't sound very Texas). If they do, then you look at the PP tax lists for the counties where you'd expect to find him. If they don't, you look for (in no particular order) police blotters, newspapers (frequently reported guests at local hotels), church bulletins. None of which are indexed, few of which are on-line, and most of which are painful to try to read. If you already know his parents, are you sure you care that much? (GBG) Cheryl singhals@erols.com

"Dianne Jones" <jonesn8@attbi.com> writes: > Trying to trace grandfather through the census. > > Known facts: b. 1862, Clinton Henry Co MO > 1870 Census - Dallas Co TX with parents/siblings > 1880 Census - not found, parents/siblings found in Hill Co TX. Older > sister not listed with parents/siblings at this time either > 1883 - marries, place unknown > 1900 Census - Johnson Co TX > 1910 Census - Hill Co TX > 1920 Census - Johnson Co TX > d. 1926, Ft Worth Tarrant Co TX > > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > single male? I have done a page/page search of the 1880 census > records for Dallas Co, Hill Co, and Johnson Co TX. Dianne - You have no trace of him between 1870 and 1900? You probably figured out that randomly reading the census page by page is not the way to go until you have reason to believe he was at a certain place. I just spent the better part of the weekend trying to locate two families in the 1930 census. I knew exactly where they were, but still had trouble finding them. In a case like this, you need to research the other members of his family to see if he is mentioned in any of their records. What became of his parents and other siblings? You should track them all down and see if the missing brother & sister are mentioned in their obituaries or probate records. This is how I learned that my 2nd great grandfather from RI had a brother in Illinois. You say he was married in 1883. Where does this information come from? Have you traced his wife's family? Where was she from? Again, maybe you will find some mention of him in the probate records of the wife's parents. You could ask for a lookup in a city directory for Hill Co Texas if any exist for 1880 or so. There is a mail list at rootsweb for these lookups. I don't know any specifics about Texas research, but you might want to join some Texas lists to see if there are some historical events, or migration patterns which might give you a clue. Lisa llepore@juno.com

Valerie Moore wrote: > > > <snip> > > > > Hmmm...Cheryl is correct here in that the Ancestry search engine > > doesn't support leading wildcards. The Ancestry Daily News had an > > article about using wildcards when searching database at Ancestry on > > or about Oct. 17, 2001 and I quote from that article: "Due to the > > nature and size of the data being searched and the need to deliver > > speedy search results, the use of wildcards is restricted to > > keywords and names that have at least the first three letters > > specified." > > > > The wildcard symbol ? will find exactly ONE unknown or missing > > character and the wildcard symbol * will find zero to five unknown > > or missing characters. you can extend the number of missing > > characters with ?? finding exactly TWO missing characters and ??? > > finding three) and ** finding more than 5 missing characters (not > > sure what the upward limit is on this one and using *** doesn't seem > > to extend the results beyond what ** is finding). > > > > Joan <JYoung6180@aol.com> > > May I ask how one used the Keywords on Ancestry.com, how are they > used? I am new to all of this. Thank you, Valerie It's an ADVANCED SEARCH capability. I rarely use it because most of the surnames I search are rare enough that I'll take anyone with the surname because he'll fit in somewhere! However, if you're looking for someone with a common name in a large, populous county, you can often narrow the search down by using the township or PO name as a keyword. John Smith in Texas is going to get a lot of hits; even John Smith in Mitchell county might get a lot of hits; but John Smith, Mitchell county, Big Springs will get a lot fewer, maybe even only one -- yours. The downside is if you've got a different piece of data than the census shows, you'll miss him (say, ol' John there is in Colorado City, not Big Springs ... or say he's using J.W. Smith ...) In some non-census databases, you can use keyword to search for "show me all the harness-makers", which is useful if you know your guy was a harness-maker, or "show me the milliners" if you know his wife was a milliner. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

From: "Dianne Jones" <jonesn8@attbi.com> > Trying to trace grandfather through the census. > > Known facts: b. 1862, Clinton Henry Co MO > 1870 Census - Dallas Co TX with parents/siblings > 1880 Census - not found, parents/siblings found in Hill Co TX. Older > sister not listed with parents/siblings at this time either > 1883 - marries, place unknown > 1900 Census - Johnson Co TX > 1910 Census - Hill Co TX > 1920 Census - Johnson Co TX > d. 1926, Ft Worth Tarrant Co TX > > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > single male? I have done a page/page search of the 1880 census > records for Dallas Co, Hill Co, and Johnson Co TX. Joan Replies: Go to http://www.familysearch.com/ on the left of the page you can choose the US 1880 census. This is an all names census so he should be listed. He probably was working or away at school. There should be enough information so you can be pretty sure you have the right one. Good luck, Joan "Joan Best" <joanbest1@earthlink.net>

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > > > Singhals fed this fish to the penguins: > > > > > theory, the ?ieber would work. As you say, though, it wouldn't > > > find > > > > <blink><blink> Guess I hadn't considered the wild cards > > would work on single characters at the beginning of a name (I've > > been using xxx* style wild cards). > > Uhhh ... I thought that was what you were saying? (g) Anyway -- the > ?xxx doesn't always work, sometimes the clever programmer insists on > a real letter there, but if it DOES work, it's invaluable. > > I know it doesn't work with the 1901 British, but then Q*Q ... > > Cheryl <singhals@erols.com> Steve Morse, who has a "search portal" which provides enhanced search capability for those seeking information at Ellis Island has added some notable improved search capabilities for the 1920 and 1930 census images at Ancestry.com (must be a subscriber of Ancestry). Among the added search capabilities are "ends with." which would allow a search for different first letters in a name. There are also routines for finding an ED from street, etc. It is here: http://www.stevemorse.org/ Regards, Richard Pence "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com>

:> Trying to trace grandfather through the census. :> :> Known facts: b. 1862, Clinton Henry Co MO :> 1870 Census - Dallas Co TX with parents/siblings :> 1880 Census - not found, parents/siblings found in Hill Co TX. Older :> sister not listed with parents/siblings at this time either :> 1883 - marries, place unknown :> 1900 Census - Johnson Co TX :> 1910 Census - Hill Co TX :> 1920 Census - Johnson Co TX :> d. 1926, Ft Worth Tarrant Co TX :> :> What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old :> single male? I have done a page/page search of the 1880 census :> records for Dallas Co, Hill Co, and Johnson Co TX. :> :> "Dianne Jones" <jonesn8@attbi.com> My GG Grandfather, born 1854, was not with his parents in the 1880 census either. In my case, searching every page of the county where his mother was found would have turned him up, but that seems not to be the case for you. So I might suggest searching census index sources for him without necessarily restricting it to specific counties. Ancestry.com doesn't have the 1880 census images indexed as yet. But the LDS church has reportedly put up a complete index to this census on their web site for free at <http://www.familysearch.org/> I think it's an every-name index, so perhaps it'll help you. = Steve = -- Steve W. Jackson Montgomery, Alabama "Steve W. Jackson" <stevewjackson@charter.net>

Dianne Jones wrote: > > Trying to trace grandfather through the census. > > Known facts: b. 1862, Clinton Henry Co MO > 1870 Census - Dallas Co TX with parents/siblings > 1880 Census - not found, parents/siblings found in Hill Co TX. Older > sister not listed with parents/siblings at this time either > 1883 - marries, place unknown > 1900 Census - Johnson Co TX > 1910 Census - Hill Co TX > 1920 Census - Johnson Co TX > d. 1926, Ft Worth Tarrant Co TX > > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > single male? I have done a page/page search of the 1880 census > records for Dallas Co, Hill Co, and Johnson Co TX. It would have helped in you gave his name and birth date and place. First try the on-line version. Start with first name, last name and birth date and state = Texas. If you can't find him then try all states. If too many hits, say more than 100, try states around Texas and radiating out. If you can't find him there then if you can find the 1880 Census CDs and many FHCs have them, you can search using wild cards. Without names I can't give any hints. bob gillis bob gillis <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net>