Probably one of the best sites for understanding the Social Security Death Index can be found at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm I just checked and the link is good. Beverly -- mailto:kngsldy@cableone.net Families are Forever!

asprentz@hotmail.com writes: > I know she was in living in Detroit in 1916, but not sure how long > before, or after. How about checking a city directory for Detroit? Edith ECFensom@aol.com

Someone who looks an awful lot like Kimber <k727h@aol.com> wrote: >>From: "Joan Best" >>When his check was not deposited in his account [I am the payee] I >>called SS to find out why. They said he had been reported deceased >>and that was why. > I have also experienced an incident somewhat like this before > concerning my now 13 year old daughter. Note to self: When I die, it is in everyone's best interest to stay dead, to minimize confusion. davehinz@spamcop.net

> i ran across information in an obituary for an individual which > stated that the person's father was deceased. the father's full > name was printed in the obituary, so i check the ss death > index.....every way i tried, no matter what combination, the > individual's father didn't pop up on the index. the story on why i > would even care is irrevelant, but does this make sense? since i > don't have a date of death or the location of the presumed death of > the father, only the name, is there anywhere else to look? > > fsuedu@hotmail.com (fsuedu) Hello, You may find some helpful clues here... Online Searchable Death Indexes for the USA http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/deathrecords.html Good luck with your search. Regards, Joe joe@genesearch.com

> since i don't have a date of death or the location of the presumed > death of the father, only the name, is there anywhere else to look? Perhaps he was born in the mid-19th century and too old to be eligible for Social Security. Sandra SGordon817@aol.com

Hi! No direct help, but some questions come to mind, seeing your data for the first time: 1.) I presume you've verified Robert Baldwin's location in Mason Co., KY via the 1860 census and now you're looking for the balance of Moses' family with other slave owners in the area. If so, I'd try to determine from the 1860 census or possibly platte books (if any exist), which of the other potential slave owners was geographically nearest and farthest from Robert Baldwin, eliminating the latter (for now) and going after the one(s) nearest Baldwin first. 2.) How close to an adjoining state is Mason Co.? Is it possible the balance of Moses' family was outside of Mason Co.? For that matter, how close geographically, was Robert Baldwin to an adjoining county right within KY?? (Sorry, my family is from Philadelphia & NY, so I do not know KY geography!) But my point is, if Robert Baldwin lived within a mile or two of a County or State Line, then the balance of his family might well be outside of Mason Co. 3.) If Mariah was the mother of Moses' children, and she is 24, then she is neither the mother of the Alex who was 17- making Mariah 7 yrs old when she became a mother, nor is she the mother of the Alex who was 14, since Mariah would still have only been 10. Sure you've got the right Mariah? Sorry I can't be of any more help. Good luck! Cap'n John "Cap'n John" <capnjohn@sgi.net>

Jean Hoffman <djhoff@ix.netcom.com> replied to my posting on TMG-L: > If you are looking for all the details (and there are more myths > and misconceptions regarding Soundex than I would have imagined), > you can read "The Complete Soundex Guide" by Willis I. Else. It > was published last year and crams years of research on the Soundex > and the creation of the different uses of it into 122 pages. He > gave a presentation at NARA last month on it, but I am fortunate > to be a fellow member of a genealogy group with which he has > shared some of his insights. bob gillis bob gillis <rpgillis@bellatlantic.net>

> I am just starting to look into my family name coat of arms ( code > of arms ) and some backgroung history and origins. > > <snip> > > Mario <mandm@flashnet.it> As you were told on soc.genealogy.britain there's no such thing as a 'family name coat of arms' but there are plenty of charlatans ready to sell you something. -- Mick Gurling CT USA "Mick Gurling" <No.Spam.mickg@toto.com>

> I am just starting to look into my family name coat of arms ( code > of arms ) and some backgroung history and origins. > > Please tell me good sources from which to start investigating if > possible on the web. > > My father family name is: DESIDERIO Mother family name: PRESUTTI > > both of Italian origin. > > I thank you all that tell me any information regarding my lastnames > and web sites on which to find some origin backgroung, history and > coat of arms ( code of arms ) > > Mario <mandm@flashnet.it> First = find out exactly where in Italy your family originated. There are 1,176 DESIDERIO listings & 566 PRESUTTI in the Italian Phone Book (at this time) Reference: (lookup does not include cell phones, unlisted lines, e) http://elenco.libero.it/elencotel/public/RicercaOmonimie.jsp Read this BASIC outline of how to do your own Italian Genealogy Research: http://www.envirocare.net/genealogy/free_genealogy_research.html If you are in Italy, or anyplace in the world, the steps are still the same, trace backwards generation-by-generation, record, by record until you find your Family Tree. Coats of Arms, really a Family Crest, are big business and often there are those who try to take advantage of the gullible. Purchasing a cute little picture or something inexpensive "for fun" doesn't matter. However, the Italian Government regularly closes down the big-business of heraldry "con-artists" who try to take advantage of people in this "business of selling coat of arms, etc" charging naïve individuals thousands of dollars. Please know that the Crest, like the Title, belongs to an individual and not to a family or clan. Think of it as a license granted to a specific person and only to that person. Although there may be a crest/coat of arms (or several different crests for a single surname) associated with one's surname usually the only way most people may be connected is that the "noble" who was granted the Coat of Arms employed the family in his serfdom or castle hundreds of years ago and so the family began to use the Noble's Surname to indicate where they were from. "Tea Cup" <not-here@antispam.edu>

I would imagine they will keep the structure exactly as it is now. Think about it......if they keep it the way it is, a person has to join both organizations at twice the amount of money to have access to all the census indices. On the other hand, if they had to compete with each other, they would each want to have the more complete indices to attract more customers. Makes sense, unfortunately! Jayme "JB" <buck131@hauns.com>

I have a ggrandmother who refuses to be found. Here's my dilemma. 1. Mary Helen Szedlovics was an immigrant from Hungary, but may not have been Magyar.. 2. She married a Mihaly/Mike Princz/Printz/Sprencz/Sprentz apx 1907 in Dayton, Ohio 3. She gave birth to a child in Dec of 1907, and she was 17 at the time. ( child #1) 4. Six months later (June-ish of 1908) she left her husband and child. 5. Reportedly, she went to Detroit, Michigan but have not found her on any census. 6. Found her son on 1930 census, living with a sister I never knew about. 7. Son says he was born in Ohio, which he was...in 1907 8. Son says his mother was born in Connecticut..father born in Ohio.. both of which are wrong. 9. Daughter says she was born in Michigan. 10. Daughter says her mother was born in Connecticut..father born in Ohio..both wrong 11. Sons age on census is off by 3 years, making him 26 instead of 23. 12. Daughter says she is 23, when she can't be if son is 23. Daughter is younger than son. 13. They aren't twins. If I assume ( bad, I know) that son and daughter have the same father, this would mean mother was pregnant when she left her husband and son and would have the same surname. If I assume that mother stayed in Ohio a few years and got pregnant by another man, would I assume that she married him and then moved to Michigan? Or that she had a child out of wedlock? If mother remarried either while pregnant, or shortly afterward, would her husband adopt the girl and give her his last name? I know that son and daughter were raised separately...son was raised in orphanage in Ohio, but I believe daughter was raised in Mi somewhere, either in orphanage, relatives, or with mother. I have searched for mother with married name, maiden name, a zillion varients of both married and maiden, and no last name at all. I have searched for all Mary's, Maria's, Mariska's and Mar**'s who would be the apx age in the 1910, 1920, and 1930. She has to be somewhere! I have tediously searched through Ed's in cities where I thought she'd most likely be, but no luck. I have tried probate records, death records, census records, ssdi application, funeral home, place of employment, etc for the son (my grandfather) and found no usable info on his mother. I have searched for daughter ( Anna C. Crist<--married name) under no last name, born in Michigan, on 1910, 1920, and have not found her. No death record found for her either, and trust me, I have searched a zillion ways. Does anyone know how long a typical divorce took to get back in 1907/8? What are the chances that she/he never filed divorce papers? I know she was in living in Detroit in 1916, but not sure how long before, or after. I've thought about sending for marriage/divorce records, but those won't tell me anything more than I already know or anything that will help me to find her in 1910, 1920, 1930, etc. No record from Ellis Island, so I assume she came in through another port. I don't know the name of the daughter, or the exact birth date, so cannot send for birth record. I don't know where daughter married, or when, but I assume it was 1928ish. Where else should I look? and What surname should I be looking for? How does one find a woman who may have remarried around 1910ish? Any suggestions kindly accepted. I'm pulling my hair out here. I've been searching for her for 10 yrs. Anne Sprentz Do you know who killed my father? JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for further details. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html asprentz@hotmail.com

>From: "Joan Best" >When his check was not deposited in his account [I am the payee] I >called SS to find out why. They said he had been reported deceased >and that was why. I have also experienced an incident somewhat like this before concerning my now 13 year old daughter. She has the same name as one of her grandmother's. At one point, when my daughter was only 8, we lived with her Grandmother while she was ill. During our stay, grandma passed away. A year later, my daughter's father's health insurance changed and when we signed up, we received a nasty letter from the insurance company stating that we were fraudulently trying to get medical benefits for someone who was deceased. After 3 months of trying to prove that my daughter was not deceased, we found out that Social Security had sent a earnings report to my daughter (she had been "working" by receiving money from a medical research program, and taxes were deducted). Social Security claims the mail was returned with "deceased" written across the front of the envelope. The forwarding address order had expired by that time also. The new owners of grandma's home knew she was deceased, and of course knew her name, but had no idea an 8 yr old would be receiving anything from social security, nor did they know my daughter had the same name. It took us another 2 months to clear things up with Social Security. We had to go as far as getting a letter from both states that we had lived in, stating that a death certificate had not been filed on my daughter's behalf, having 2 relatives and 2 non related individuals signing affidavits saying she was alive, provide school records, and medical records. Taking her to their office in person, along with her School picture ID, a birth certificate, a report card and bottle of her prescribed medication wasn't enough to satisfy them. All in all, it took us nearly 6 months and $8000 before getting health coverage on my daughter, (she ended up having her tonsils removed during the time she was uninsured). I thought we had finally taken care of the situation but... Strangly enough, i tried to get my daughter a Teen Visa just a few weeks ago, and was denied because her credit report, which I have no idea why they even checked it, still indicates that she is deceased. I called the credit bureaus, and as it turns out, Experian is the one who still has her listed as deceased. So, I am in the process now of getting that cleared up. Oh, and as for Social Security utilizing a forwarding address...well, that didn't happen right away for us. After finding out that Social Security was involved in this entire fiasco, I contacted them by phone, mail and in person. Each time I made sure they had our correct address. The first 3 correspondences they sent us concerning our problem were sent to the old address! I hadn't heard from them with in an acceptable time frame, so I called to find out what was going on, they once again said the mail they sent had been returned. Kimber For a listing of obituaries I have on hand for St. Joseph Cty, IN, visit: http://hometown.aol.com/k727h/index.html k727h@aol.com (Kimber)

Singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote: > It is tempting, oh-so tempting!, to list as a source for > great-grand's marriage something like > http://members.NASA.edu/web/web_page/this.html > and skip the wearisome step of VERIFYING the info in the real > records. > > The problem will arise (that's WILL, as in guaranteed) when, two, > six, eight months or a year from now when you try to go back to > http://members.NASA.edu/web/web_page/this.html > and get a 404- file not found, or a No DNS. > > [snip examples] > > It seems to me that one of several other approaches could be (should > be?) taken -- cite the source (1) as "Jerry Murphy's website, Jul > 2001" or (2) as "Private Communication" or (3) [a personal favorite] > "I read this somewhere." (2) and (3) are unarguable, not open to > verification, and no worse than an invalid URL; (1) at least gives > you a fighting chance of determining whether the website you find > today is the one you saw last year. You are right about the problem, of course. I think the best way to deal with it is to give the URL followed by "Accessed on" and an exact date. I think that most journals which allow e-citations insist on this. There can be no guarantee that it will still be there the next day. -- Don Aitken Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com>

> I am just starting to look into my family name coat of arms ( code > of arms ) and some backgroung history and origins. > > Please tell me good sources from which to start investigating if > possible on the web. > > My father family name is: DESIDERIO Mother family name: PRESUTTI > both of Italian origin. > > I thank you all that tell me any information regarding my lastnames > and web sites on which to find some origin backgroung, history and > coat of arms ( code of arms ) > > Mario <mandm@flashnet.it> There is no such thing as a "family name coat of arms". Coats of arms (not codes of arms) belong to individuals, and are inherited by their descendants. The great majority of people don't have one, and you are not entitled to use one which is born by somone else just because you have the same surname, any more than you are entitled to anything else which is their property. You need to do the genealogy first - if that leads you back to an armiger (someone who bore a coat of arms) that is a bonus. The is a good international newsgroup on heraldry (the science of coats of arms and associated matters) at rec.heraldry, but you might do better with an Italian group if there is one, since the detailed rules vary from one country to another. There is an excellent website at www.heraldica.org. -- Don Aitken Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com>

fsuedu wrote: > > i ran across information in an obituary for an individual which > stated that the person's father was deceased. the father's full > name was printed in the obituary, so i check the ss death > index.....every way i tried, no matter what combination, the > individual's father didn't pop up on the index. The father may have died before 1962, the year that the Social Security death records began to be computerized. The father may not have had a Social Security card. Not everyone's death, even those who had a card, was reported to the Social Security Department. If you would care to list the man's name I would be willing to search for him in the index, I have been able to find individuals that no one else can. Gerry Wright San Francisco email address has two too many dots g.d.wright@earthlink.net

> >My grandmother was Canadian, married to a US citizen in 1905 (in > >Canada). They lived their entire married life in the US. I know > >she voted after women won the right to do so. Before 1919, I > >believe was no advantage to citizenship for her, and in any case, > >she was married to a US citizen. I don't see anything anywhere that > >she would have had to go through a citizenship process and therefore > >have left a paper trail. Still, if there is one someplace, I'd like > >to have it. Anyone? > > > >"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn@worldnet.att.net> > > I think at the time in question, the citizenship followed the > husband's, at least in the US. I know that when my grandmother > married my grandfather in the 30s, she lost her US citizenship and > became a Canadian citizen, even though she, and all her ancestors > for several generations prior, had been born in the US. She was > naturalized when my grandfather was. > > Susie B <susie314b+nanae@justREMOVEtheCAPS.net.invalid> As you say, might be the year in question, but I've never heard of losing your U.S. citizenship when marrying a citizen of another country. But I could be wrong. It was Canadian Law, at least in the 1930s that stated that when a Canadian married a citizen of another country, they lost their Canadian citizenship and were considered a citizen of the spouse's country. Problem was, that in the 1930s, the U.S. did not recognize this law. In 1932, my mother, a Canadian, by Canadian law, was considered a U.S. citizen. The U.S. did not. She had to obtain a special authorization from the U.S. Consulate in Canada to accompany my father into the U.S. She's 93, and still has her "green card". Andy Romano "Andy" <romanoa@sdc.cox.net>

> > This happened to my son, who gets ss because of a disability, > > when some joker at an old address apparently wrote "deceased" on > > a piece of mail that was returned. We had to go through quite a > > bit to get him back among the living as far as ss was concerned. > > > > "Joan Best" <joanbest@earthlink.net> > > I'll take your word for it, but I am hard pressed to believe that > a person's benefits would be severed on the basis of a piece of > mail with "deceased" being written on it. There has to be much > more to the story. For instance, why would the SSA even see that > piece of mail - unless, of course, the legally required change of > address was not made. > > Further, I am astonished to learn that we have government > employees so dense that when a person presents himself with proper > identification that this employee wouldn't accept the fact that he > is alive. Or is that process the "quite a bit" it took to get him > back among the living? > > "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> When his check was not deposited in his account [I am the payee] I called SS to find out why. They said he had been reported deceased and that was why. I asked what I had to do to get him back among the living. I had to take him and travel the 50 miles to the town which housed the SS office. I brought his state issued ID and my son. They were not going to accept this. As I recall they wanted his birth certificate. We went back and fourth. They contacted people, wrote up a bunch of stuff, went back and forth. We sat in that office over two hours, with me periodically pointing out to the worker that my son was right there in the flesh and obviously not dead, while the worker tried some other tactic to get him back on the rolls. It certainly was not as easy as showing simple ID. [As I remember, at one point they wanted me to take him to the police for fingerprint verification.] This is NOT an urban legend. Joan "Joan Best" <joanbest@earthlink.net>

>> I *greatly* appreciate experienced Methods posters who submit their articles in the standard format. ] Mod: I would like very much to have a description of the "standard format" that experienced methods posters do use. If you provide the standard format, or tell me where one may be viewed, I will certainly adhere to the guidelines with future postings. Many thanks. [ Since you asked ... (: Some basic information: The whole point of the format is to make Methods posts easy to read. There is no religion here, and the standard Methods format may not be "best" in any meaningful sense. It's just the format that's been used for the last decade or so. And don't worry about this. You aren't being graded. (: But, if you want to make life better for the poor suffering moderator, here are some guidelines: (1) First and foremost, use your best standard grammar, spelling, and formatting of your article. Use capitals to start sentences, don't shout entirely in caps, use two spaces between sentences but not between random words, etc. (I know some people have been taught to use one space between sentences. Two spaces is neither better or worse -- it's just what we use here so everything reads the same ... ) (2) When posting a new article, try to make your Subject: line as meaningful as possible. Make sure the same information appears in the article as in the Subject: line, because some readers cannot see the Subject: and the message body at the same time. (3) When replying to an article, use the same Subject: line (possibly adding Re: in front). (4) When you quote material from an earlier post, in general trim away as much text as you can retaining only the text to which you are responding. Place that quoted text before your response. You can always write "<snipped some-short-summary>" to summarize a long textual passage you're removing. (5) When quoting material, try to keep the poster's name and email address associated with the material. Don't include the date/time of the quoted message, the Message-ID:, or extraneous material of that ilk. So a well-formatted message might appear: ### From: foo@bar.com Subject: Re: Unusual Information Sources > > I'm familiar with the standard vital records, but I'm > > curious what other records experienced researchers might > > have used. > > > > "Sally Wright" <wright123@aol.com> > > I've sometimes found old teachers' grade books to be a > useful source of information. > > <snipped interesting personal anecdote> > > "Jon Prince" <jprince@earthlink.net> That's completely true, but the trick is *finding* the grade books. Sometimes they've been destroyed, sometimes the local school district has them, and other times they may be in the local library or historical society. Good luck with your search! -Paul -- Paul Foo foo@bar.com ### Anyway, the easiest way to do Methods formatting is just to mimic what everyone else does. And don't worry about getting it exactly right -- close is more than good enough. Thanks all! -Mod ] Fran powell@closecall.com

It is tempting, oh-so tempting!, to list as a source for great-grand's marriage something like http://members.NASA.edu/web/web_page/this.html and skip the wearisome step of VERIFYING the info in the real records. The problem will arise (that's WILL, as in guaranteed) when, two, six, eight months or a year from now when you try to go back to http://members.NASA.edu/web/web_page/this.html and get a 404- file not found, or a No DNS. I am a county coordinator for a USGenWeb site. I have a respectable number of links on my pages. In the past year, more than half those links have changed URLs. The changed links run from a private website to part of the US Government. I spent over 35 minutes looking for a specific page on a specific state-government site today -- never did find it. Used their site-search engine to come up with the info I needed, but NOT in the form it was in August 2002. A METHOD of dealing with ephemeral sources in genealogy needs to be discussed. The entire purpose of a source citation is to permit you or someone else to return to the source of the information. A Dead URL does not permit that to happen. Once the URL changes, there is no way of knowing whether the information has also changed. Worse, if I'm reading (or you're reading) a document produced by Joseph Q. Stranger, there is no way of knowing whether his cited -- but invalid -- URL ever existed. It seems to me that one of several other approaches could be (should be?) taken -- cite the source (1) as "Jerry Murphy's website, Jul 2001" or (2) as "Private Communication" or (3) [a personal favorite] "I read this somewhere." (2) and (3) are unarguable, not open to verification, and no worse than an invalid URL; (1) at least gives you a fighting chance of determining whether the website you find today is the one you saw last year. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> > is there a way that I can work back from the name I have now to > > find what it was originally? > > Prior to civil registration in each state, people changed their > names "at will". There was no process or legal requirement to > register a name change. > > My G-Grandfather changed the spelling of his name from Sutherland to > Sutherlin and back again nearly yearly for a decade. He also > changed his residence frequently. Perhaps he was staying one step > ahead of the rent and/or bill collector. I dunno. His brothers, in > other states, did the same. They also lied about their dates of > birth. > > I think that in our pursuit of ancestors, we must always view > events from their time frame/perspective. Today, you would have a > hard time unilaterally changing your name. In the 19th century, > there was no impediment to that. > > Sandra <SGordon817@aol.com> i'm with sandra on this one...depends on the time period. and can be for any number of reasons....my great-great grandfather came to ny in the 1800's with documentation and a letter from the police "chief" in his hometown in germany (we still have this stuff), and lo and behold, when he got to ellis island, whoever filled out his forms just decided that his name was easier to pronouce if spelled another way and just changed it on the spot. if we didn't have those original documents, we'd be up a creek trying to go back to the german records.... if it's pretty recent, newspaper archives as well as court documents are useful. sometimes more so, if you get lucky with a state library like florida's or university libraries.... fsuedu@hotmail.com (fsuedu)