> Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > > For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > > Anyone who can give me any info on this matter: yes, please! :) > > evert@meulie.net (Evert Meulie esq.) First, read the MFAQ at: http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/mfaq Second, Coats of Arms are not generally associated with family names. Just because you bear a certain surname, does not mean that any coat of arms assocated with that surname can be borne by you. That is not to say that with a very rare surname, you might not have a connection. The other thing to bear in mind is that the vast majority of persons on this planet come from quite humble stock and as such, it us generally unlikely that there would be a coat of arms. Do some genealogic work. With such a unique surname, you should be able to make some pretty good headway. Good luck, have fun. Michael Michael Cuell <mcuell.garbage@shaw.ca>

bob gillis wrote: >"Richard A. Pence" wrote: > >>[snip] However, if you believe that the LDS 1880 U.S. Census *Index* (and a fine one it is)is a "transcription," you might want to look at one of the images and compare it with the LDS index extraction. It doesn't contain >>"the same information as the 1880 Census CDs" (I assume you mean the >>image CDs taken from the microfilms); it contains only a fraction of >>it. >> >> > >Richard, yes I am referring to the 1880 FamilySearch Census. It is >much more than an index. Yes it does not contain all the >information in the 1880 Census enemeration but it does contain most >of the information that is useful in genelaogical research. It would seem this is a matter somewhat of one's personal preference for semantics. I usually have referred to the 1880 LDS FamilySearch Census as a "transcription," using a popularly understood word to emphasize that it is *not* an original image but recognizing that it offers much more than a typical "index," both in the amount of information and the format it offers (i.e., viewing an entire household together). Richard actually hit the nail on the head, though, in his explanation that it is an "extraction," and we should probably try to use the proper term. >>[snip] >> >>1. Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation.> >>2. Families numbered in order of visitation. >> >> > >No, but what is the real importance of this information except in >rather unususal circumstances. If you want to know the failies in >order of visitation, just search on neighbord. > [snip] >>14. Number of months this person has been unemployed during the >>census year. >>Health: >>15. Is the person (on the day of the enumerator's visit) sick or >>temporarily disabled, so as to be unable to attend to ordinary >>business or duties? Is so, what is the sickness or disability? >> >> > >No but ususally not important > > > >>16. Blind. >>17. Deaf and dumb. >>18. Idiotic. >>19. Insane. >>20. Maimed, crippled, bedridden, or otherwise disabled. >>Education: >>21. Attended school within the census year. >>22. Can not read. >>23. Can not write. >> >> > >17 thru 23, no, but ususally not pertinanat. > > > >>[snip] >> >> > >If any of the omitted information is pertinant for a researcher, he >can go to the micofilm and get all the data. >[snip] I find all those points that Bob says are "usually not important" to be very important to me. However, once again, that's probably a matter of ones personal definition of "genealogy." Bob is correct that we can always go to microfilm or the original source if we want the additional information, which we should eventually do anyway because of the errors that any extraction, index, or transcription can have. It's certainly better to have some of the information freely available online in any form than none at all. What's most important is that we recognize and understand every resource for exactly what it is, exactly what it offers, and exactly what it does not offer. The right word helps. Diane genmail@1st.net

>From: evert@meulie.net (Evert Meulie esq.) > >Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ >sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my >last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole >world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when >I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the >Meulie family, or so they say... > >Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is >actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been >made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > >For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > >Anyone who can give me any info on this matter: yes, please! :) A good place to start is the rec.heraldry FAQ at http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/heraldry/faq.html Extract: Arms are not associated with surnames, but with individuals and, in some countries, with families. The important thing is who your ancestors are, not what surname you happen to bear. The fact that your name happens to be "Smith", for example, gives you no claim whatsoever on any of the thousands of arms borne throughout history by various people named "Smith." Unfortunately, there are lots of unscrupulous businessmen worldwide who are happy to promulgate false information about the subject of armory. They will happily take your money to tell you "Your Family Arms", which they supply simply by finding an armigerous family that happens to share your surname. Carol Botteron <botteron@alum.mit.edu>

[snip] > Richard, yes I am referring to the 1880 FamilySearch Census. It is > much more than an index. Yes it does not contain all the > information in the 1880 Census enemeration but it does contain most > of the information that is useful in genelaogical research. [ snip] > > 1. Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation.> > > 2. Families numbered in order of visitation. > > No, but what is the real importance of this information except in > rather unususal circumstances. If you want to know the failies in > order of visitation, just search on neighbord. > [snip > > 14. Number of months this person has been unemployed during the > > census year. > > Health: > > 15. Is the person (on the day of the enumerator's visit) sick or > > temporarily disabled, so as to be unable to attend to ordinary > > business or duties? Is so, what is the sickness or disability? > > No but ususally not important > > > 16. Blind. > > 17. Deaf and dumb. > > 18. Idiotic. > > 19. Insane. > > 20. Maimed, crippled, bedridden, or otherwise disabled. > > Education: > > 21. Attended school within the census year. > > 22. Can not read. > > 23. Can not write. > > 17 thru 23, no, but ususally not pertinanat. > > > Nativity: > > 24. Place of birth of this person, naming State or Territory of > > United States, or the country, if of foreign birth. > > 25. Place of birth of the father of this person, naming State or > > Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth > > 26. Place of birth of the mother of this person, naming State or > > Territory of United States, or the country, if of foreign birth > > > > Of these 26 pieces of information, the LDS 1880 index includes > > only these eight: > > > > 3. Name > > 4. Color > > 5. Sex > > 6. Age > > 8. Relationship to HOH (Partial; those not members of the family > > are in a catch-all "other" category) > > 24. Place of birth > > 25. Place of birth of father > > 26. Place of birth of mother > > If any of the omitted information is pertinant for a researcher, he > can go to the micofilm and get all the data. There are 48? CDs in > the 1880 Census. To show all the information would have probably > made the set 20% larger and for how much use? > > bob gillis If a person is not interested in more than names and dates I can agree; however, a person that is serious about reconstructing a family will be interested in learning all of these "not pertinent" details. These "unimportant" facts are what flesh out the bare bones of our ancestors. Celia "Celia Mitschelen" <cmitsch@ix.netcom.com>

Frederick Powell Sr wrote: > > Listmembers, I have a Craven Co., NC deed written 1771 that lists as > occupation/trade "turner" [quotations mine]. In the deed Turner is > written with caps if that matters and the word does follow the > grantee's name. The deed reads like this: This indenture made the > twelfth day of April in the year of our Lord Christ one thousand > seven hundred seventy and one between William WEST of Craven County > and province aforsd. Cooper of the one part and John WATERS of the > county and province aforsd. Turner of the other part---, etc. > > What is a turner? Google provided me with definition of turner as > one who uses a lathe. For what types of work would one use a lathe? > Carpentry? Carpentry, in its broadest sense, but a rather specific part of carpentry, known as cabinetry. A turner would create those spiral bedposts, and fancy legs on chairs and stuff like that (pardon the technical term?). At one time, this was all done by hand, (that is, no lathe, either mechanical or electrical; 1765, in rural NC, they may still have been doing it by hand, but up around Thomasville they were probably using mechanical lathes). It was a highly prized and well-paid skill. (still is, to a certain extent). Among my assorted ancestors are a number of cabinetmakers and a living cousin does antique restorations. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

"L. Witzig" <lwitz1967@hotmail.com> wrote: > Do any of you have a short list of (a) books or (b) net sites that > would cover the basics of internet genealogy searches? I am loathe > to pay Ancestry.com $30 for an intro genealogical research on the > internet course. Cyndi's List is a must site, but it is easy to be overwhelmed. http://www.cyndislist.com/ Here is her Beginner's link: http://www.cyndislist.com/beginner.htm This is a fascinating hobby, sure to absorb your attention for years to come. Welcome and enjoy! Elizabeth Richardson "Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn@worldnet.att.net>

Naomah wrote: > Naomi Lee (S.m.i.t.h - MI) (M.o.r.r.i.s.o.n -TN) > (C.a.r.d.e.r - GA) (B.l.a.c.k - SC, NM) Now, here's a newbie with a clue! Welcome aboard, Naomi. Pity I don't need Haralson co. (g) Now, if you've got a friend in Habersham, lemmeno. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > > For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > > Anyone who can give me any info on this matter: yes, please! :) > > evert@meulie.net (Evert Meulie esq.) I looked in Rietstap's Armorial but could not find a Meulie coat of arms. It looks like a miller's arms. Meulen is the Dutch word for Mill and many people with this name have coat of arms that look like the one you received. According to Rietstap it is indeed the Meulman coat of arms. As your first name Evert is typically Dutch maybe you have Dutch ancestors. Please give me details of the place of origin of the Meulie Family. Maybe I can help. Klaas Padberg Evenboer "Klaas Padberg Evenboer" <vonpadberg@planet.nl>

Austin W. Spencer wrote in reply to Richard A. Pence: [Massive lop-offs occurred here) > to FHLC's description of that film's contents. Besides, any time > you resort to guessing, your first guess has only a random chance of > being more accurate than the result of a diligent search. (and a small snip there) Fiddlesticks. I promise you, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a physicist or even a mathematically literate human to "guess" correctly 95% of the time. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

Steve W. Jackson wrote: > > Patscga@aol.com wrote: > > :> jonesn8@attbi.com writes: > :> > :> > What types of records should I search to find an eighteen year old > :> > single male? > :> > :> I'm afraid I don't understand your problem. Why do you need to know > :> where he was living when he was 18 years old? > > Why not? If you don't find a direct ancestor in a census, aren't > you the least bit curious? Is there some reason why we should NOT > care to learn all the details that are available about the lives of > our ancestors? No, what I am when I don't find a direct in the census is annoyed, not curious. I have way too many people who were borned, married, and buried within a 10 mile radius who managed to be not-on the census. The cost/benefit ratio for figuring out where they were is unfavorable. (Especially since it'll probably turn out they were simply away visiting an already enumerated family on the day the enumerator showed up.) Cheryl singhals@erols.com

Frederick Powell Sr at powell@closecall.com wrote: > What is a turner? Google provided me with definition of turner as > one who uses a lathe. For what types of work would one use a lathe? > Carpentry? Anyone who uses a lathe can be called a TURNER. As such, the occupation could be related to either wood or metal working. If WOOD, it could be the making of architectural millwork such as spindles for railings, etc. If METAL, it would be in conjunction with a machine shop. HTH, Cheers -- <><><><><><><><><><><> Arrowhead Images <aepalmer@a-znet.com> <><><><><><><><><><><> You will find me old, tough and chewy !

> Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;)< May I suggest reading Dick Eastman's article on this subject? It can be found at: http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/columns/eastman/4133.asp?sourceid=00392187256981834119&key=Uhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eancestry%2Ecom%2Flibrary%2Fview%2Fcolumns%2Feastman%2F4133%2Easp&rc=locale%7E&us=0 If for any reason the link above does not work, please e-mail me privately and I will send the page. Hope it proves helpful. Beverly -- mailto:kngsldy@cableone.net Families are Forever!

Evert Meulie esq. wrote: > Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > > For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > > Anyone who can give me any info on this matter: yes, please! :) I see you've found rec.heraldry (crosspost cut out) - that would have been my first suggestion. I've seen several conversations which get cross-posted between r.h and soc.culture.scottish which I also read, and I suspect you'll get pretty good answers there. You don't tell us what country is involved. If the arms are Scottish, I can assure you that they aren't yours; arms in Scotland attach only to an individual. For other countries, you'll have to do more searching. British heraldry (including a section on Scotland): http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/ -- Joe Makowiec can be reached at: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe Joe Makowiec <makowiec@nycap.rEMOVECAPSr.com>

[ Hi all. I've removed the poster's identity because they hadn't intended this to be a public post, but I am posting their question for everyone because responses are likely to be of interest to many people. - Mod ] To the Moderator (for your eyes only), All these Root'sWeb Lists are very interesting, but very hard to read. Is there a format to follow? IE start at the bottom and read upward. That seems to be the only way I can make sense of them. I would like to contribute at times or make requests, but can't seem to get a handle on the protcol. There seems to be only a few that seem to post all the time and are sometime snippy with their answers. I have been able to harvest a few web sites and tidbits of infromation, but seems like a lot of repeated info. Please give me suggestions on how to get the best out of these lists. Thank you in advance for your assistance. A List Reader. "A Reader" <a.reader@nowhere.com>

> > > I understand some site, not SSA!, has some SS-5 images up. Anyone > > > familiar with the URL? > > > > > > Cheryl Singhals <singhals@erols.com> > > > > Here is a site that has some, quite a few actually: > > > > http://www.idreamof.com/ss5/surnames_a-l.html > > > > k727h@aol.com (Kimber) > > Now that is truly neat! I am inspired now to send for my great > grandmother's form now. How long does it take? > > Roxanne Koelpin <r.koelpin@verizon.net> Those are abstracts of SS-5 information, not images. Polly H

evert@meulie.net (Evert Meulie esq.) wrote: > Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > > For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > > Anyone who can give me any info on this matter: yes, please! :) Update: The coat of arms seems to have belonged to Meulman of Utrecht. The company who supplied me with it has not provided me with any proof that the Meulie family is related to Meulman of Utrecht though... Regards, Evert Meulie evert@meulie.net (Evert Meulie esq.)

"L. Witzig" <lwitz1967@hotmail.com> wrote: > The subject says it all. I am a true neophyte to genealogy and have > done some searching out on the net. However, I feel my searches > would be more fruitful if I had guidance or tips on how to search > for the best sites/groups. > > Do any of you have a short list of (a) books or (b) net sites that > would cover the basics of internet genealogy searches? I am loathe > to pay Ancestry.com $30 for an intro genealogical research on the > internet course. Which country are you searching? As sources, archives and availability are different in the assorted parts of the world, it's pointless making other than general recommendations without knowing. Lesley Robertson Lesley Robertson <l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl>

"Evert Meulie esq." <evert@meulie.net> wrote: > Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) I would be very surprised if this was genuine. Most of these companies blanket-sell the arms of one family to everyone of that name, which is about on the same level as saying that your house or car belongs to everyone who shares your surname. The polite term is scam. >From your name, I am guessing that you are dutch, in which case if you really want it verified, contact the Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie in den Haag (the repository for dutch heraldry) - http://www.cbg.nl/ If you are flemish or afrikaans, you should still be able to find links to their sites from the CBG one, or they should be able to advise. Lesley Robertson Lesley Robertson <l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl>

> Some days ago I came across an Internet company that researches/ > sells Coats of Arms via the 'no cure, no pay' principle. Since my > last name, Meulie, is very rare (only 4 living people in the whole > world) I thought it was worth the 'risk'. Great was my surprise when > I received an email, with attached to it the coat of arms of the > Meulie family, or so they say... > > Is there any way I can verify that the coat of arms I received is > actually that of the Meulie family, and not something that has been > made by some random coat of arms generator program? ;) > > For who is interested, the image received is visible at: > http://www.meulie.net/CoA/ > > Anyone who can give me any in Yes, you can check its authenticity yourself, simply research your family history, back to 14th century should do in most cases, and the achievement (coat of arms) will be revealed in that research. There is no shortcut, as to claim the right to display an existing achievement you have to be able to show the lineage from the original user. Cheers Guy -- Wakefield, England http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts -- not promises! http://www.archivecdbooks.org Assist genealogy lend a book to Archive CD Books http://gye.future.easyspace.com Worldwide Cemetery Links, Monumental Inscriptions, War Graves, etc. Guy Etchells <guy.etchells@virgin.net>

> The subject says it all. I am a true neophyte to genealogy and have > done some searching out on the net. However, I feel my searches > would be more fruitful if I had guidance or tips on how to search > for the best sites/groups. > > Do any of you have a short list of (a) books or (b) net sites that > would cover the basics of internet genealogy searches? I am loathe > to pay Ancestry.com $30 for an intro genealogical research on the > internet course. > > lwitz1967@hotmail.com (L. Witzig) It would be my suggestion to also check your local genealogy/ historical societies and Family History Centers. They often offer/ conduct workshops for genealogy internet search strategies and a whole lot more. Good luck with your family history adventure. A. John Birkholz brotherjohn@imt.net