Frank Cullison <fcullison@yahoo.com> wrote: Snipped: Also, since he had no pension, is it worthwhile to send in the form for just his service record. Compiled service records for both Union and Confederate soldiers and sailors have been microfilmed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Those microfilms are easily obtainable at local LDS Church Family History Centers and cost much less - $.3.25 to rent a film for six weeks - than the fee currently charged by the National Archives for compiled service records. The compiled service records are not as informative as pension records, but they can be useful. Looking for the children of one man, I found one had been captured in Virginia and sent to Fort Deleware, Del., where he died of typhic mal fever. And another, poor soul, had joined the same Confederate infantry unit on 1 June 1861 in Mississippi, was admitted to a hospital in Virginia suffering from measles and typhoid fever in June 1861 and died of pneumonia on 31 Aug. 1861. His file included letters from his father and his father's deposition that he (the dead soldier) was survived by neither wife nor child. His father evenually received $58 from the Confederacy: $11 a month pay for his son's three months of service plus a $25 clothing emollument. I don't know about you, but that's the kind of information I like to have. The compiled service record of one my Yankee great-grandfather, among other things, gave his age at the time of his enlistment and his birth place. This information eventually allowed me to find his parents, grandparents, etc. back to most of the original immigrants in his family. I also found out that he had become captain of a Union company of black soldiers about the time of the fall of Vicksburg. That was something he apparently didn't discuss when he settled in Texas after the war and was news to his descendants. The compiled service records have been indexed by the National Park Service and can be found by searching for "Civil War Soldiers and Sailors." You can plug in the information you have, service, name, place of enlistment, and see a list of people with that name who enlisted in a particular state. Usually people enlisted in the state where they lived. But occasionally they joined up in another state. Once you've found someone in the index that you would like to investigate, make a note of the company and the unit he is listed in. The microfilms are catalogued by state under the "military records" category. The compiled service records from each state are filed by regiment (1st Cavalry, 2nd Cavalry, 1st Infantry, 2nd Infantry and so forth) then by company and then by surname so they are fairly easy to locate. Janey E. Joyce in San Antonio, Texas Janey Joyce <jejoyce@sbcglobal.net>

"Dora Smith" <deanae@alltel.net> wrote: > Part of our family had > sent and got back about 50 pages of very interesting things. Then > another in the family wanted their own copy so they also sent. They > received 120 pages, including the names and birthdates of all of > their children and the names of all of the wife's siblings. Deana: This may reflect a change in pricing and policy at NARA. A couple years ago, the prices were increased and at that time the proposal was that for the new higher cost, one would get the entire file instead of "selected" material (i.e., the pages the clerks decided were pertinent to genealogy). I do recall that the original proposal wasn't totally adopted, but raise the issue in hopes that someone with a sharper memory than mine can confirm or refute my recollections. Regards, Richard "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com>

FamRSearch@aol.com wrote: > Matt > > Exactly. Union Pensions were paid by the federal govenment much > like soldiers today get pensions after 20+ years of service or > widows get pensions if their husband is killed while in the military > service. Those pensions were passed by an act of congress and were > administered by the War Department and the the Department of > Veterans Affairs. Pensions were also paid to the widows of disabled Union veterans (and the degree of disability could be very slight) even if the marriage did not take place until long after the war was over. Some Civil War widows pensions were still being paid in the 1940s. -- Don Aitken Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com>

> > I believe the occupation could be related to the Workhouse, Board > > of Guardians. Google search on Workhouses or Poor Law should give > > good result. > > > > "Ava Connelly" <aconnelly@blueyonder.co.uk> > > Thanks Ava, it appears that there were registrars at the workhouses > so there's more of a possibility of him being registrar there than > being the Superintendent Registrar for Liverpool. > > Peter Moulding <peter@xmouldingname.info> Actually, the combination of a workhouse job with the position of registrar of BMD was not uncommon - one famous example is Emmeline Pankhurst, who held both positions in Manchester for some years. -- Don Aitken Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com>

>I have the homestead land description of an ancestor's brother and >am having trouble translating it into something I can use. > >Before I dive into the details, I'd like to make it clear that I am >quite familiar with the system used on the Canadian prairies, and >while the U.S. system shares a lot of similarities with the Canadian >system, it turns out that there are a number of differences which >are combining to stop me dead. > >The land description is Secn 1 - Rg 73W - Twp 129N - 5P.M. > >I've been able to locate the 5th Principal Meridian, and thus can >locate the 73rd Range west of it. But where is the baseline that >Township 129 is North of? I've spent a couple of hours searching >the web but can't find a description of how or where baselines on >the American central prairies were determined. Were they on lines >of latitude? Tips, hints, clues gratefully accepted. > >"Donna Hrynkiw" <Donna.Hrynkiw@kwantlen.ca> Hi Donna, I have never heard of a Township number of 129!! If you do a google search for range and township you will find more than you ever want to know. Another source for you would the United States Geological Survey web page. There you can obtain maps of both North & South Dakota which should help you locate the township in question!! Good Luck, rfs in omaha, ne Richard F Strait <rfstrait@juno.com>

Julia said: > To qualify for a pension he would have to met the requirements set > up by the act passed by Congress. It is doubtful just age would > qualify him in 1886, I believe that came about in early 20th > century. He would have had to have been wounded and/or ill while in > service and had it affect his life after the war. > > If he came through unscathed then he just did not qualify. I suspect that is the case. Those files that I have where the soldier received money they had to tell a pitiful story of long time disability [constant diarerra seem to be an ailment of choice, probably hard to prove.] There was not much in the way of medical confirmation, rather neighbors testified about how debilitated the individual was. One mother's pension told how the father had gone to Knoxville from Illinois to nurse his son in the hospital. He had measles. When the son died the father brought both the body and the measles home. Everyone in the family had measles and a 10 year-old son also died, and, it was claimed, the family members could not work as hard or as long ever after. I have noticed that measles was a common ailment among Civil War pension records and that it was often fatal. Joan "Joan Best" <joanbest@earthlink.net>

G. M. Lupo wrote: > So, I guess I'm wondering if Union pensions were paid by the federal > government rather than the states as were Confederate pensions, and > is there a general uniformity in the type of information found in > Union pensions versus what's in a Confederate pension application? Flat-footed yes to the first part. A probably to the 2nd ... depending on your definition of "general uniformity." ALL will include some proof of his service; the longer he waited to claim a pension, the iffier that information is. All will include the veteran's then-current address; (all the ones I've seen asked about a wife); all will have information on whether approved or disallowed and if approved, how much $$ a month. Anything else is providential. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

> I have watched the list on the replies about sending for the files > and what might be in them. I not only recomend sending for them, I > recomend others in the family send also. Part of our family had > sent and got back about 50 pages of very interesting things. Then > another in the family wanted their own copy so they also sent. They > received 120 pages, including the names and birthdates of all of > their children and the names of all of the wife's siblings. This > was new to all of us and with this we found out the family group > these names went with and was able, at long last to learn her > parents names and gain one more rung on the ladder. You never know > what you will find in those files. You also can't be sure you get > everything the first time. > > Deana Smith "Dora Smith" <deanae@alltel.net> I understood NARA discontinued that "genealogical" packet; they lowered the cost of copying the entire packet, but if you order a copy of the file, you get the whole enchilada. Cheryl

Frank To qualify for a pension he would have to met the requirements set up by the act passed by Congress. It is doubtful just age would qualify him in 1886, I believe that came about in early 20th century. He would have had to have been wounded and/or ill while in service and had it affect his life after the war. If he came through unscathed then he just did not qualify. Julia FamRSearch@aol.com

Matt Exactly. Union Pensions were paid by the federal govenment much like soldiers today get pensions after 20+ years of service or widows get pensions if their husband is killed while in the military service. Those pensions were passed by an act of congress and were administered by the War Department and the the Department of Veterans Affairs. It makes sense the the Federal government did not grant pensions to the soldiers who fought against it. However, as they recovered from losing the war, many of the southern states offered pensions to the widows of soldiers from their units and later to some of the soldiers themselves. These were passed by the state legislature and amounts, who was eligible and what proof were required would vary from state to state. Julia Coldren-Walker FamRSearch@aol.com

I had a GG Grandfather that served in the Civil War for about 6 months. He would have been about 48, normally a bit old to join but he provided the horses for the cavalry. His service record said: Commission in Company Smith's, Indpt Cavalry Regiment Illinois on 23 September 1861. I was not able to find a pension file on him, even though he died in 1886 at the age of 70 years old. Was he not eligible for a pension because of his age at joining and the fact that it was an independent Regiment? Also, since he had no pension, is it worthwhile to send in the form for just his service record. And finally, What kind of information could a Bounty-Land Warrant Application contain, My gg grandfather moved to Kansas after the War and I think he may have received some land there. "Frank Cullison" <fcullison@yahoo.com>

> I have the homestead land description of an ancestor's brother and > am having trouble translating it into something I can use. > > Before I dive into the details, I'd like to make it clear that I am > quite familiar with the system used on the Canadian prairies, and > while the U.S. system shares a lot of similarities with the Canadian > system, it turns out that there are a number of differences which > are combining to stop me dead. > > The land description is Secn 1 - Rg 73W - Twp 129N - 5P.M. > > I've been able to locate the 5th Principal Meridian, and thus can > locate the 73rd Range west of it. But where is the baseline that > Township 129 is North of? I've spent a couple of hours searching > the web but can't find a description of how or where baselines on > the American central prairies were determined. Were they on lines > of latitude? Tips, hints, clues gratefully accepted. > > "Donna Hrynkiw" <Donna.Hrynkiw@kwantlen.ca> Donna, See if this url is of any help to you. http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmaga/landmaps/range_map.html -- Claude Claude J Ortega <cjortega100@hotmail.com>

I have watched the list on the replies about sending for the files and what might be in them. I not only recomend sending for them, I recomend others in the family send also. Part of our family had sent and got back about 50 pages of very interesting things. Then another in the family wanted their own copy so they also sent. They received 120 pages, including the names and birthdates of all of their children and the names of all of the wife's siblings. This was new to all of us and with this we found out the family group these names went with and was able, at long last to learn her parents names and gain one more rung on the ladder. You never know what you will find in those files. You also can't be sure you get everything the first time. Deana Smith "Dora Smith" <deanae@alltel.net>

The Wilson's wrote: > What software is your son using for the family web page?" I want to > start that kind of thing and you mentioned a lot of pictures. I > have a lot of family pictures and need help identifying them. Any > ideas you could pass along would be appreciated. "phpBB 2.0.4" © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group, at www.phpBB.com I believe he said he had to dig into the manual a bit to figure out how to get the photos to "behave" as if they were text posts, so that each could be its own "thread". Each photo has to be prepared in two sizes. The small one appears in the forum index. The reader can click on this and the full-size photo will open in a separate window, and he can also can post a reply message. > > I can't resist adding to the software question even though you > probably have already made a decision. If you narrow it down to one > or two programs monitor that program's mail list on RootsWeb. I am > watching RootsMagic myself and find the problems all come out. Of > course, every program will have it's supporters and detractors but > it appeals to me to be a good way to evaluate while you may be > trying a demo version. > > John I have just entered the 50th person in RM demo. I did briefly monitor a forum (at RM?) which, as you say, let it all hang out. Thank you.... Ol' Bab "Ol' Bab" <olbabNO-SPAM@rochester.rr.com>

"T&R Gowett" <TIM1776@webtv.net> wrote... : For what its worth-on my gggreat-grandfathers pension, the children : were listed as "all of age". : Most of my info on his children comes from cemetery records-and : that still leaves a few BIG gaps on info. What were some of the differences between Union and Confederate pensions? I have the pension application filed with the state of Georgia my g-g-grandmother on my g-g-grandfather who died during the war. It's very sparse and basically the only form of proof presented in it was that she listed the date and place of their marriage, stated she had not married since and statements were taken from three men who served with my g-g-grandfather during the battle in which he was killed. There also seems to be disagreement on that. Most records list his date of death as November 29, 1863, which corresponds with the assault on Fort Sanders in Knoxville, TN, but in other places it's listed that he was killed at "the battle of Knoxville" in October, 1863. I don't even think Confederate forces were in Knoxville at that time. But, these discrepancies could easily be chalked up to the ravages of time as the information was given nearly 30 years after the battle. The best evidence I have is that my g-g-grandmother was still living in the county where she married as were her children who would have all been "of age" at that time, but no mention is made of them in the application or the supporting documentation. I have been unable to locate her on the census in 1870 or 1880, though I've found other family members, including her sons and her mother and sisters. So, I guess I'm wondering if Union pensions were paid by the federal government rather than the states as were Confederate pensions, and is there a general uniformity in the type of information found in Union pensions versus what's in a Confederate pension application? Matt Lupo -- G. M. Lupo a.k.a. matt at lupo dot com Up on the hill, they think I'm okay Or so they say... "G. M. Lupo" <deaconblues@steelyspam.org>

> In January 1915 the Bureau of Pensions sent out a questionaire > including the following question; > > State the names and dates of birth of all your children living or > dead. > > Dave Mayall <dave@research-group.co.uk> Of the five pension files of which I have copies, none is of a veteran who was still living in 1915. All five left widows, and three of them were living in 1915. (One widow died in 1912. Another has no death date on file, but her pension was dropped in 1886 for "failure to claim," and she was described as deceased in her son's letter of 7 Aug 1912.) None of my three files pertaining to a widow living in 1915 includes a questionnaire. I suspect that I would have to have looked up a veteran who was himself living in 1915 to get a file with a questionnaire. Like your great-great-grandfather, he would have to have lived at least to his mid-seventies, and if he was born much before 1840 even advanced age is no guarantee of living to receive a questionnaire. I understand that filled questionnaires are included in the National Archives Pension Documents Packet, for those who desire only direct genealogical information and wish to save on the cost of a full pension file. Austin W. Spencer "Austin W. Spencer" <AustinWSpencer@sdc.cox.net>

Greetings from Canada, I have the homestead land description of an ancestor's brother and am having trouble translating it into something I can use. Before I dive into the details, I'd like to make it clear that I am quite familiar with the system used on the Canadian prairies, and while the U.S. system shares a lot of similarities with the Canadian system, it turns out that there are a number of differences which are combining to stop me dead. The land description is Secn 1 - Rg 73W - Twp 129N - 5P.M. I've been able to locate the 5th Principal Meridian, and thus can locate the 73rd Range west of it. But where is the baseline that Township 129 is North of? I've spent a couple of hours searching the web but can't find a description of how or where baselines on the American central prairies were determined. Were they on lines of latitude? Tips, hints, clues gratefully accepted. Darn, but you end up learning about the weirdest/neatest stuff doing genealogy. Donna Hrynkiw Researching (in this case) the brothers Felix (b. 1870), Josef (b. unknown), and Franz LUTZ (b. 1880), who all lived or owned land in or near North and South Dakota between about 1890 and 1910. I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers. "Donna Hrynkiw" <Donna.Hrynkiw@kwantlen.ca>

Snipping has occurred below... Dave Mayall wrote: > > "Austin W. Spencer" wrote: > > > > > any age. I said: the childern of my GGrandfather were listed BY > > > birth date and place AND by the mothers >>>>>>>> ALL THREE of them, > > > eight children in All. HE applied for a pension in 1898. The > > > question asked was "How many children do you have", he then lists > > > them ALL!!!!, Phil > > > > > > "Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com> > > > > Phil, this repetition is getting tiresome. Yes, your great- > > grandfather left a pension file with an uncommonly full description > > of his wives and children. Does this mean that our readers can and > > should expect the same from any given pension file search? Once > > again, I say no. For the third time this month, by my count. > > It is however something that MANY files do contain, and the > possibility that it might be there makes it well worth getting the > file. > In January 1915 the Bureau of Pensions sent out a questionaire > including the following question; > > State the names and dates of birth of all your children living or > dead. The two pension files (both Union) that I have found that relate to my family in any way did not contain these lists. Both did list the wife's maiden name and state she was dead. Both did mention, obliquely, one child each (in one, the daughter's husband sent in a bill for the funeral of "my father-in-law"; in the other, a letter from a son mentions "my father". Neither man lived until 1915. Both did contain the pensioner's own handwriting. I suspect the contents of the file depends on a number of variables, including whether the pension was disallowed on first try; if it was, there is likely to be a bunch more useful information than otherwise. Cheryl singhals@erols.com

"Ava Connelly" <aconnelly@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > I believe the occupation could be related to the Workhouse, Board > of Guardians. Google search on Workhouses or Poor Law should give > good result. Thanks Ava, it appears that there were registrars at the workhouses so there's more of a possibility of him being registrar there than being the Superintendent Registrar for Liverpool. All the best Peter http://www.mouldingname.info http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~moulding peter@xmouldingname.info

> I can't remember if I have seen this anywhere, but if a Union > solider was killed, did his widow get his pension? My > ggg-grandfather was killed in 1864 in Arkansas and although I have > his military papers, I don't have any pension info (the military > ones were sent to me by a cousin). Would he have any pension? > > Ellen <Vonkorn@aol.com> If she was still living when they began awarding U.S. Civil War pension and if she was not married to someone else (she could have married again and been widowed again and still have been eligible) she could have gotten a pension. Janey E. Joyce in San Antonio, Texas Janey Joyce <jejoyce@sbcglobal.net>