> Please, could someone tell me what this list is? I recognize it as a > Rootsweb genealogy list, but how did I get on it? Had I subscribed > to this? Or as I suspect, something that I have been getting got > changed and I am unaware of it. > Joan in Scottsdale, AZ > > [email protected] > > [ This is GENMTD-L, the oldest (more than a decade in continuous > operation) mailing list and gatewayed USENET group dedicated to > genealogical research methods. And having fun. ... - Mod ] For those who may be curious let me add that there is a very fine history (IMHO) at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~socgen/history.html A. John Birkholz [email protected]

> > Threaded archives are at: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENMTD > > and searchable archives at: > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=GENMTD > > <snip> > > Karen Isaacson Leverich <[email protected]> and Ms. Leverich included further instructions/comments. Thank you, Ms. Leverich, for the reply. At age 84, I view the instructions as a bit complicated and definitely time-consuming, so for now will stick with the list. Thanks for your time. Fred, Sr. "Fred Frederick" <[email protected]>

> Please, could someone tell me what this list is? I recognize it as a > Rootsweb genealogy list, but how did I get on it? Had I subscribed > to this? Or as I suspect, something that I have been getting got > changed and I am unaware of it. > > [ This is GENMTD-L, the oldest (more than a decade in continuous > operation) mailing list and gatewayed USENET group dedicated to > genealogical research methods. And having fun. (: You probably > subscribed yourself to the list at RootsWeb. If you don't want > to be here, just follow the unsubscribe directions (which are the > same as for any other RootsWeb list). - Mod ] > > Thanks for some clue. > > Joan in Scottsdale, AZ <[email protected]> then you better complain to the data-junky Dr Leverich at linkpendium who is apparently running an nntp news server from his hut in the jungle check the headers on your message > Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.linkpendium.com!news.linkpendium.com!not-for-mail > From: [email protected] > Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.methods > Subject: Re: GENMTD > Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 05:21:37 -0700 (PDT) > Organization: http://www.linkpendium.com/ | The definitive directory to genealogical resources > Lines: 18 > Sender: [email protected] > Approved: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > NNTP-Posting-Host: askin-17.linkpendium.com > X-Trace: askin-17.linkpendium.com 1162038097 7957 63.173.235.17 (28 Oct 2006 12:21:37 GMT) > X-Complaints-To: [email protected] > NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:21:37 +0000 (UTC) > Xref: uni-berlin.de soc.genealogy.methods:29410 [ Actually, it's a cabin on a mountainside, about 5600' up. We even have indoor plumbing that works most of the time, and a 800' square foot climate-controlled network operations center dug into the mountain with two T1s to the UUNET and Sprint Internet backbones. It's a lifestyle thing. - Mod ] Hugh W -- new phone = new daily blog http://upsrev622.blogspot.com/ family history http://hughw36.blogspot.com Hugh Watkins <[email protected]>

Please, could someone tell me what this list is? I recognize it as a Rootsweb genealogy list, but how did I get on it? Had I subscribed to this? Or as I suspect, something that I have been getting got changed and I am unaware of it. [ This is GENMTD-L, the oldest (more than a decade in continuous operation) mailing list and gatewayed USENET group dedicated to genealogical research methods. And having fun. (: You probably subscribed yourself to the list at RootsWeb. If you don't want to be here, just follow the unsubscribe directions (which are the same as for any other RootsWeb list). - Mod ] Thanks for some clue. Joan in Scottsdale, AZ [email protected]

> http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > it differs from ESM. > = > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. Is that > name-reversal common these days? > = > Cheryl Singhals Cheryl, = I have not checked the above site as yet, but would like to offer this observation. In Elizabeth Shown Mill's Quicksheet and in Evidence!, for bibliographic entries, the Surname is placed first, as is normal, or if the author is, say, an agency of the government, then in its generally accepted bibliographic citation sequence. However, for what I call footnotes and/or endnotes (called "Full Reference Note" in the QuickSheet, and "Primary Citation (Endnotes or Footnotes)" in Evidence!, an author's first name(s) precede(s) the surname. QuickSheet's "Short Reference Notes", Evidence!'s "Subsequent Citations (Endnotes or Footnotes)" the 2nd and following footnote or endnote reference to the same article, database, etc., then usually only the Surname is used (if unique i.e. only one author of this surname is being cited within the writeup), plus a title (article, book, database, etc.) most often shortened, but again unique, so there is no confusion as to what one is referring. Gwen Gwen P. King, B.Sc., M.L.I.S. Lorneville, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia e-mail: [email protected]

singhals wrote: > http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > it differs from ESM. > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > Is that name-reversal common these days? In fact, if I recall my ESM correctly, she does it both ways. Put the surname first when compiling a bibliographic list, and alphabetize the entries. This way, no bibliographic entry in the list will be "lost." But this advantage only applies (and is only necessary) to such a list. When writing footnotes to accompany text, lead off with given names the first time you cite a source. If you cite it again, substitute the author's surname only, followed by a brief title and page number(s). If your work is to appear in a major journal, the editor probably won't even bother with a bibliographic list. > I have no problem with my bibliography showing Allen Xavier, Barbara > Yurs, Charles Wier, David Urias, Elsie Truelove, and so on, but I > can't help thinking that as soon as I arrange them that way, someone > will have a cow when Xavier, Allen or Wier, Charles or Truelove, > Elsie isn't where they're looking ... The major point of unclarity that I see in the ProGenealogists page is that its author does not distinguish between footnotes and list entries. One style, the writer implies over and over again, should suffice for any citation we care to write. Never mind that ESM, whom the author endorses at the end of the guide, says something quite different. Nor does it help that where the surname comes first, the examples place a comma in every place where, according to the rules of bibliographic presentation, there should be a period. > Cheryl <[email protected]> Austin W. Spencer <[email protected]>

> Threaded archives are at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENMTD > and searchable archives at: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=GENMTD With the migration to MailMan, the searchable archives are no longer being maintained. (Translation: messages over the past few days, including this one, and future messages, will only be added to the threaded archives. The old searchable archives remain, with old messages, back to the beginning.) But before you get too grumpy about that, back up to the Mailing List Archives Home Page here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ And note that nifty little link to "BETA Search all of the archiver listings", here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search You can limit the search (or so it claims, ain't tried it) to single lists using the "Advanced" tab. For that purpose, I honestly don't know if we're GENMTD, GENMTD-L, genmtd, or genmtd-l. Well, so I tried it. GENMTD found matches from both SmartList and MailMan, so use that for the listname in the Advanced Archives Search. And they've also indexed the really old messages, from when we were served by "L-Soft list server at Apple (1.8c)" Karen [email protected]

I. At what age in NC 1771-1777, does a male begin to pay poll taxes? Is there an online site where might I find further information on the topic of males paying poll taxes? II. Does this list have an Archives? I did not find it in rootsweb. [ Threaded archives are at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENMTD and searchable archives at: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=GENMTD - Mod ] Thank you. Fred, Sr. "Fred Frederick" <[email protected]>

> > http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > > it differs from ESM. > > > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > > > Cheryl Singhals <[email protected]> > > I can't answer that, but I do wonder if this change is > because computers can search on just about anything...which is to > say, as long as everything is just on a computer, so what? But, I > think I prefer the traditional surname, given name because I may > remember FRAZIER, but will I remember that his first name is David, > for example. How many of us refer to Mr. GREENWOODs wonderful > research book using just his last name, but someone may not know his > first name is Val? > > The traditional way seems more efficient...but, maybe it is > because it is 'traditional', I don't know but I think I will stick > with the old way. It did seem to create more problems than it solved, that's for sure. Cheryl singhals <[email protected]>

> > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > > > Cheryl Singhals <[email protected]> > > I'm a librarian in a public library and deal with students of all > ages who are doing research. There are many different styles for > citing sources (MLA, APA, Turabian, etc), but ALL of the books show > the lastname, firstname format. I have never seen anything official > list given name first and think that would be very confusing. > > Kim <[email protected]> I thought it was odd enough to question, at least. (g) Cheryl

> > I'm a librarian in a public library and deal with students of all > > ages who are doing research. There are many different styles for > > citing sources (MLA, APA, Turabian, etc), but ALL of the books show > > the lastname, firstname format. I have never seen anything official > > list given name first and think that would be very confusing. > > > > Kim > > Given that some names are used as both forename and surname, > like Allen, Thomas, John, the use of either can be confusing. > > If a book were accredited to author, John, Thomas = > > would we know which was which? > > [ I think i would assume that he was Thomas John = > > but one might be in some doubt. ] > > Phil Warn Especially since ,,, seem to be out-of-favor. (g) If one could COUNT on the writer using his ,,, properly, ambiguity decreases. ;) Cheryl singhals <[email protected]>

> > http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > > it differs from ESM. > > > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > > > I have no problem with my bibliography showing Allen Xavier, Barbara > > Yurs, Charles Wier, David Urias, Elsie Truelove, and so on, but I > > can't help thinking that as soon as I arrange them that way, someone > > will have a cow when Xavier, Allen or Wier, Charles or Truelove, > > Elsie isn't where they're looking ... > > > > "Cheryl Singhals" <[email protected]> > > It'll get awfully complicated (especially for indexing) when the > citation list contains a mixture of refs from electronic and > hardcopy material. Surely it's better to come up with a single > format? > > I tend to use the same one I use professionally - Surname, Forename > (or initials), (other authors), year, title, location. Of course, > certificates are another matter. > > Lesley Robertson Yeah. Hard enough to remember whether the italics are newspaper names or journal articles, without having to figure out whether it's an e-article, or an e-copy of a hard-copy article, or a hard-copy of an e-article ... Cheryl singhals <[email protected]>

> > http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > > it differs from ESM. > > > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > > > "singhals" <[email protected]> > > I haven't seen that in practice. What's the reason for overturning > years of standard research practice? > > John Nichols If the website gave a reason, I missed seeing it. Cheryl singhals <[email protected]>

received. Thanks, Jeanell [email protected]

> I'm a librarian in a public library and deal with students of all > ages who are doing research. There are many different styles for > citing sources (MLA, APA, Turabian, etc), but ALL of the books show > the lastname, firstname format. I have never seen anything official > list given name first and think that would be very confusing. > > Kim Hi Kim, Given that some names are used as both forename and surname, like Allen, Thomas, John, the use of either can be confusing. If a book were accredited to author, John, Thomas = would we know which was which? [ I think i would assume that he was Thomas John = but one might be in some doubt. ] Phil P. S. Glad to see that [GM] PREFIX has = re-emerged today, its temporary loss was a bit confusing! Is this List being moderated - there seem to be so many comments within posts! [ Yup, this list and gatewayed newsgroups have been moderated for more than a decade now, since the great genealogy "split" on USENET. The moderator is usually very, very quiet, though. - Mod ] Phil Warn =C3=B4=C2=BF=C3=B4 Genealogists do it backwards Family Historians take all steps "The Warn family in Tetbury from 1722" = <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philwarn/FamHist1/index.htm> Phil Warn <[email protected]>

> Dr. Brian Leverich <[email protected]> > > Does this mean the list is now up and running? > > > [ Yup, we're back! - Mod ] > > > Thank you. > > Fred, Sr. <[email protected]> Thanks, Dr. L. I guess this also indicates I am still subscribed. This is the first time I have posted a message that was accepted---- [ Sorry about all the chatter from the moderator today, but if your posts aren't making it to the list that probably means they're getting trapped in a spam filter. Send messages daily directly to [email protected] about the problem until you get a response. I check the Linkpendium spam bucket, but it may take two or three tries until I see your mail. Once I know about the problem, I can whitelist you. ]

> http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > it differs from ESM. > > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > Cheryl Singhals <[email protected]> I can't answer that, but I do wonder if this change is because computers can search on just about anything...which is to say, as long as everything is just on a computer, so what? But, I think I prefer the traditional surname, given name because I may remember FRAZIER, but will I remember that his first name is David, for example. How many of us refer to Mr. GREENWOODs wonderful research book using just his last name, but someone may not know his first name is Val? The traditional way seems more efficient...but, maybe it is because it is 'traditional', I don't know but I think I will stick with the old way. JoAnn JoAnn <[email protected]>

> http://www.progenealogists.com/citationguide.htm > > offers numerous examples of citations for electronic sources. Yes, > it differs from ESM. > > > I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > I have no problem with my bibliography showing Allen Xavier, Barbara > Yurs, Charles Wier, David Urias, Elsie Truelove, and so on, but I > can't help thinking that as soon as I arrange them that way, someone > will have a cow when Xavier, Allen or Wier, Charles or Truelove, > Elsie isn't where they're looking ... > > "Cheryl Singhals" <[email protected]> It'll get awfully complicated (especially for indexing) when the citation list contains a mixture of refs from electronic and hardcopy material. Surely it's better to come up with a single format? I tend to use the same one I use professionally - Surname, Forename (or initials), (other authors), year, title, location. Of course, certificates are another matter. Lesley Robertson "Lesley Robertson" <[email protected]>

> This post is a test of RootsWeb's Mailman version of the > GENMTD-L mailing list. > > "Dr. Brian Leverich" <[email protected]> Does the Mailman version now not provide the [GM] in the subject line? If this is the new wave of the future, I am not happy about it. [GM] is a tool that is very convenient for me to determine whether I open an email or not - [GM] tells me that the message is from a "good guy" - a family tree climber. Familiar names are no problem but new or sporadic participants will fall by the wayside for me. Cheryl ("Singhais) is very familiar, but I note that a posting from her today about lunchtime was not so flagged and I had no idea what she was referring to. It appears to be a continuation of the thread "If they are not where they are supposed to be." [ The tags were turned off by the move. We should have that fixed now ... - Mod ] Also, I was not able to reply to the group. I had to resort to beginning a completely new email. Many of the General Methods subscribers are much more literate than I in the innerworkings of cyber space in this Wide World Web. I don't know that I want to know how the mail lists are created . . . . [ Like SmartList, Mailman passes "Reply-To: fields straight through without modification. I try to trim them out manually, but I miss them occasionally. I can probably modify the moderation software I use to remove them with certainty. Stay tuned ... - Mod ] Sharon Simnacher "Sharon Simnacher" <[email protected]>

> I note with interest, not necessarily approval, that these citations > begin with the author's given name, not the surname. > > Is that name-reversal common these days? > > Cheryl Singhals <[email protected]> I'm a librarian in a public library and deal with students of all ages who are doing research. There are many different styles for citing sources (MLA, APA, Turabian, etc), but ALL of the books show the lastname, firstname format. I have never seen anything official list given name first and think that would be very confusing. Kim Kim <[email protected]>