I have a couple of ancestors who "died at sea" - one in 1853 on a voyage from Massachusetts to Califonia, the other in Union service during the Civil War. Granted, these were not risk-free endeavors, but has anyone heard the term "died at sea" used to mean suicide? Also, where did deaths at sea get recorded (I haven't found a Massachusetts record for my first case above)? Thanks. Ray Scanlon rscanlon@naisp.net

On 28 Apr 2002 in soc.genealogy.misc, Ray Scanlon wrote: > I have a couple of ancestors who "died at sea" - one in 1853 on a > voyage from Massachusetts to Califonia, the other in Union service > during the Civil War. Granted, these were not risk-free endeavors, > but has anyone heard the term "died at sea" used to mean suicide? Nope. > Also, where did deaths at sea get recorded (I haven't found a > Massachusetts record for my first case above)? Thanks. I should think in the ship's log? Do you have any details about the death? Who owned the ship? The Massachusetts to California voyage in 1853 would have involved the trip around Tierra del Fuego, so would have passed by a number of different civil jurisdictions. -- Joe Makowiec can be reached at: makowiec(at)nycap(dot)rr(dot)com

In article <Xns91FEC69B6F6E5makowiecatnycapdotrE@24.24.0.10>, Joe Makowiec <makowiec@nycap.rEMOVECAPSr.com> wrote: > On 28 Apr 2002 in soc.genealogy.misc, Ray Scanlon wrote: > > > I have a couple of ancestors who "died at sea" - one in 1853 on a > > voyage from Massachusetts to Califonia, the other in Union service > > during the Civil War. Granted, these were not risk-free endeavors, > > but has anyone heard the term "died at sea" used to mean suicide? > > Nope. > > > Also, where did deaths at sea get recorded (I haven't found a > > Massachusetts record for my first case above)? Thanks. > > I should think in the ship's log? Do you have any details about the > death? Who owned the ship? The Massachusetts to California voyage in > 1853 would have involved the trip around Tierra del Fuego, so would have > passed by a number of different civil jurisdictions. Joe, thanks for your time. Ship's log certainly seems reasonable. If only I knew the ship! The only detail on the death I have is a line in an 1881 town history: "d. on voyage to Cal., Feb. 16, 1853." I was unclear above about what Mass. record I didn't get - I tried to get a Mass. death certificate, hoping that the death had been filed somewhere and reported back (an iffy proposition, but a place to start). The probate records film is on order; maybe I'll get lucky there. Haven't even begun to look for the maritime records, but having the exact day of death implies that *somebody* knew something about it at the time. Maybe there's a local newspaper account to be had. > > -- > Joe Makowiec can be reached at: > makowiec(at)nycap(dot)rr(dot)com

rscanlon@naisp.net (Ray Scanlon) wrote: >I have a couple of ancestors who "died at sea" - one in 1853 on a voyage >from Massachusetts to Califonia, the other in Union service during the >Civil War. Granted, these were not risk-free endeavors, but has anyone >heard the term "died at sea" used to mean suicide? Also, where did deaths >at sea get recorded (I haven't found a Massachusetts record for my first >case above)? Thanks. Curious why you suspect suicides? I've never heard 'died at sea' to mean anything other than 'died at sea'. It could be from several causes . .. violence by other humans- [pirates or enemies], accidents, illness, washed overboard . . . Both mens[?] deaths were most likely recorded in the Captains log. The sailor/soldier would also be recorded in his unit's records as well as his own service record. Union Army records are fairly complete, but I'm not sure of Navy/Marine records. [if you don't know th branch of service, don't assume Navy--- the Navy delivered both soldiers and Marines to battles.] Before I sent this, I gave my 'quick and dirty test of terms' to the two terms, 'died at sea' and suicide. I went to UMich's MOA site- http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/moa_adv.html , selected 1850-1865 & used 'suicide' as a search term. . . I got 827 matches. Using 'died at sea' as a term, I only got 12. So I'd say suicide was a pretty common term in that era & probably would have been used to describe a death if that was what it was. Jim