A few days ago some kind genealogists in Australia helped me to solve a genealogical problem concerning the author Frederick Joseph THWAITES. I have another problem, which I hope Australian (and other) expertise may help me to solve -- it concerns the grandmother of Frederick Joseph THWAITES (or rather her husband). Margaret Agnes Anne GREEN (known as Agnes) was born in Nova Scotia, Canada, She was about 11 when her widowed father, William GREEN, of the Commissariat, was transferred to the Cape Colony. She married a man named WILSON, known variously as William, Napoleon or John Wilson, allegedly in the Cape Colony, though no record of the marriage has been found. Wilson was drowned in the Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856, leaving her, aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she married Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more children (though there is some doubt about the fourth), and then he committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March 1864. The mystery attaches to her first two husbands, and especially Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS. One thing I want to establish is whether he was ever in Natal colony in the early 1850s. Shelagh Spencer has been publishing (over the last 30 years) a series of volumes on "British settlers in Natal", and in the D volume there is a description of an "Alfred Francis DAWSON" who seems to have been a mysterious character. No one knew quite where he came from. He had two teenage children, and a wife, Octavia, who was far too young to have borne either of them. There were a couple of younger children by his wife Octavia, and in the register at St Paul's Church Durban the surname DAWSON has been deleted and FRANCIS substituted, with a note that the cor- rect name of the family was FRANCIS. Alfred Francis DAWSON, or Alfred Dawson FRANCIS, played a quite prominent role in the social life of the colony, was a churchwarden, and was also cited as co-respondent in a divorce case, and seems to have had an eye for the ladies. His wife Octavia drowned in a boating accident, and DAWSON disappeared from the scene soon afterwards, leaving as mysteriously as he had arrived. Shelagh Spencer notes that a Mr Francis left on a boat to Port Elizabeth, accompanied by two children. Then a couple of years later an Alfred Dawson Francis turns up in New South Wales and marries a girl from the Eastern Cape, she a widow, and he a widower. His first wife appears to have been Christiana FOX, and they had two children, Dean and Alfred. Dean was witness at his wedding to Agnes Green. But at one of her weddings she gave her maiden name as GLASGOW, so it seems as if there was something strange going on (her grandmother's sister had married an artillery officer. George GLASGOW, in Canada). On another occasion her name was given as Agnes Eliot. There are a couple of other indications to suggest that the Alfred Dawson Francis of NSW may have been the same person as the Alfred Francis Dawson of Natal. One was that one of the children in Natal (the younger ones by Octavia) had the name FAIRFAX, and his eldest daughter by Agnes GREEN also had FAIRFAX in her name. There was also a family rumour (probably unreliable) that there was a family connection to the English Gothic novelist, Horace WALPOLE. The older children by the first wife are about the right age for the ones who were with the family in Natal. Anyway, what I was wondering was if there might be any evidence anywhere to suggest that the Alfred Dawson Francis who committed suicide in Sydney was ever in Natal. That would solve the mystery of that mysterious character. Another question is if there is anything to suggest what happened to his first wife, Christiana FOX. She does not seem to have died in Australia. Perhaps she died in the Cape Colony, or perhaps he abandoned her there. I hope this does not trespass too much on the generosity of people who helped so much with the THWAITES query! Here's a summary of the family information: Family History System 27 Dec 2005 Merged Group Reports NAME: GREEN, Margaret Agnes Ann, Born 8 Dec 1835 in Nova Scotia, Died 26 Dec 1902 in Marrickville, NSW, AUS at age 67; FATHER: GREEN, William John (Goodall), Born 28 Aug 1790, Died 9 Apr 1866 at age 75; MOTHER: GRAY, Margaret, Born 18 May 1795, Died 11 May 1844? at age 48 MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane; Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide, because Sydney marriage was bigamous. MARRIED 9 Jan 1858 in Gundary, NSW, to FRANCIS, Alfred John Dawson, Born ??? 1820? in Liverpool, England, Died 5 Mar 1864 in Sydney, NSW at age 44; FATHER: FRANCIS, John; Witness: Dean Francis. He was a widower, she a widow, both of Bodalla.; Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley MARRIED ??? 1851 in Cape Town, to WILSON, William, Born ??? 1823? in Camberwell, London, Died 21 Apr 1856 in Tuross River, NSW at age 33; According to W. Wilson's death certificate, he married Margaret Agnes Glasgow at the Cape of Good Hope at the age of 28. CHILDREN: 1. F WILSON, Caroline Agnes, born 20 Apr 1854 in Sydney, NSW, died 7 Dec 1946 in North Havelock, NZ; Married 21 Jul 1874 to BRATHWAITE, Robert Ashley Warre; 8 children 2. F WILSON, Emily Eleanora, born 23 Aug 1855 in New South Wales, died 18 Jun 1859 in Yarragee, NSW, AUS 3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar 1859 in Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, NSW, AUS; Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William 4. M FRANCIS, Arthur Walpole, born 7 Jan 1861 in Moruya, NSW, died 8 May 1921 in Mariental Dist. SWA; Married 2 Nov 1887 to DONOVAN, Ida Miranda Willoughby; 3 children 5. F FRANCIS, Edith Lilian, born 20 Aug 1862 in Yarragee, NSW, died 13 Oct 1926 in Melbourne, Vic. Aust.; Married 10 Oct 1885 to BRIDGES, William Throsby; 7 children 6. F FRANCIS, Louisa, born 3 Nov 1864 in Queanbeyan, NSW, died 18 Mar 1943 in Tenterfield, NSW; Married 24 Dec 1883 to COWLEY, Percy; 10 children 7. F THWAITES, Margaret Jane, born 20 Mar 1872 in Sydney, died ??? in Sydney 8. M THWAITES, Walter William Alfred, born 2 Jan 1874 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, died ???; Married 25 Jul 1895 to SAVAGE, Emily Victoria; 6 children 9. M THWAITES, Herbert Edward, born 28 Nov 1875 in Australia, died 28 Jan 1937 in Boksburg; Married to BRITTAIN, Motty Adeline; 2 children 10. F THWAITES, Elizabeth, born ??? 1876, died ??? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NAME: FRANCIS, Alfred John Dawson, Born ??? 1820? in Liverpool, England, Died 5 Mar 1864 in Sydney, NSW at age 44; FATHER: FRANCIS, John; Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley MARRIED 9 Jan 1858 in Gundary, NSW, to GREEN, Margaret Agnes Ann, Born 8 Dec 1835 in Nova Scotia, Died 26 Dec 1902 in Marrickville, NSW, AUS at age 67; FATHER: GREEN, William John (Goodall), Born 28 Aug 1790, Died 9 Apr 1866 at age 75; MOTHER: GRAY, Margaret, Born 18 May 1795, Died 11 May 1844? at age 48; Witness: Dean Francis. He was a widower, she a widow, both of Bodalla. MARRIED 14 Jul 1842 in Lancaster, LAN, ENG, to DEAN, Christiana Fox CHILDREN: 1. M FRANCIS, Dean, born ??? 1843, died ???; Married 24 Jan 1865 to BOOT, Eliza Angelina Hopkinson 2. M FRANCIS, Alfred, born ??? 1844, died ??? 3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar 1859 in Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, NSW, AUS; Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William 4. M FRANCIS, Arthur Walpole, born 7 Jan 1861 in Moruya, NSW, died 8 May 1921 in Mariental Dist. SWA; Married 2 Nov 1887 to DONOVAN, Ida Miranda Willoughby; 3 children 5. F FRANCIS, Edith Lilian, born 20 Aug 1862 in Yarragee, NSW, died 13 Oct 1926 in Melbourne, Vic. Aust.; Married 10 Oct 1885 to BRIDGES, William Throsby; 7 children 6. F FRANCIS, Louisa, born 3 Nov 1864 in Queanbeyan, NSW, died 18 Mar 1943 in Tenterfield, NSW; Married 24 Dec 1883 to COWLEY, Percy; 10 children -- Steve Hayes E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work) Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com... >> Hi Steve, I am read thru this a few times and am having trouble following the story in particular the Family History system merged group reports . I tried to find the surname Margt Agnes Ann died under ( d 1902 Marrickville ), but drew a blank ? . Did she marry this THWAITES bloke in Adelaide 1879 ? I am more than happy to help but this seems to be very muddled if you dont know anything about this family as I dont Wilson was drowned in the > Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856, > leaving her, > aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she > married > Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more > children > (though there is some doubt about the fourth), Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862 Broulee Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053 See NSW State Records on line indexes www.records.nsw.gov.au and then he > committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March > 1864. > There might be a surviving inquest file out at State Records ?????? Indexes to NSW Coronial inquests are on film from abt 1800 and something - 1942 in a lot of larger libraries . Might be a report in the Sydney Morning Herald too ? Bye -- MargM Beautiful Central Coast of NSW Australia

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:52:26 +1100, "MargM" <genknut@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com... >>> > > Hi Steve, > >I am read thru this a few times and am having trouble >following the story in particular the Family History >system merged group reports . I tried to find the >surname Margt Agnes Ann died under >( d 1902 Marrickville ), but drew a blank ? . Did she >marry this THWAITES bloke in Adelaide 1879 ? > >I am more than happy to help but this seems to be very >muddled if you dont know anything about this family as I >dont Yes, she died as "Agnes Margaret Anne Thwaites", father William Green, mother Margaret Gray, at 60 Shepherd Street, Marrickville. Informant on the death certificate was her son Walter Wm Thwaites. Born Nova Scotia, North America, 8 years in South Australia, 7 years in Victoria, 20 years in NSW. She married Thwaites twice, once in Sydney, and the second time in Adelaide, with four children being born in bertween (but his previous wife was still alive). . > Wilson was drowned in the >> Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856, >> leaving her, >> aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she >> married >> Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more >> children >> (though there is some doubt about the fourth), > Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862 >Broulee > Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS Well the missing one, Ada, was supposed to have been born in bodalla, but was apparently never mentioned again in the family after about 1865, when they bleft Queanbeyan for Sydney. Perhaps they dropped her off en route! >Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek >went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053 Now that is very interesting -- where was Dwyers Creek in relation to Moruya and neighbouring areas? > >See NSW State Records on line indexes >www.records.nsw.gov.au > > >and then he >> committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March >> 1864. >> > > >There might be a surviving inquest file out at State >Records ?????? > > Indexes to NSW Coronial inquests are on film from abt >1800 and something - 1942 in a lot of larger libraries >. > > Might be a report in the Sydney Morning Herald too ? Thanks very much! -- Steve Hayes E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work) Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

>>"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com... >>>> >> >> Hi Steve, > Yes, she died as "Agnes Margaret Anne Thwaites", father William Green, > mother > Margaret Gray, at 60 Shepherd Street, Marrickville. Informant on the death > certificate was her son Walter Wm Thwaites. Born Nova Scotia, North > America, 8 > years in South Australia, 7 years in Victoria, 20 years in NSW. > > She married Thwaites twice, once in Sydney, and the second time in > Adelaide, > with four children being born in bertween (but his previous wife was still > alive). . > >> Wilson was drowned in the >>> Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856, >>> leaving her, >>> aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she >>> married >>> Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more >>> children From http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm marriage 1518/1858 FRANCIS ALFRED J D WILSON MARGARET A A BROULEE Births 6076/1859 FRANCIS (FEMALE) ALFRED J D AGNES M A BROULEE 6162/1861 FRANCIS ARTHUR W ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE 6381/1862 FRANCIS EDITH L ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE 14090/1864 FRANCIS LOUISA ALFRED J D MARGARET A A QUEANBEYAN AGCI has a christening of Ada Francis at Gunning NSW on 3 Feb 1874 Source Parish Register Held by Heraldy & Genealogical Society Canberra >>> (though there is some doubt about the fourth), > >> Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862 >>Broulee >> Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS > > Well the missing one, Ada, was supposed to have been born in bodalla, but > was > apparently never mentioned again in the family after about 1865, when they > bleft Queanbeyan for Sydney. Perhaps they dropped her off en route! > > >>Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek >>went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053 > > Now that is very interesting -- where was Dwyers Creek in relation to > Moruya > and neighbouring areas? Dwyers Creek is part / near Moruya (shares same post code 2537 see map on following link http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_Regions.asp?regiontype=2&slacode=2750&region=SE Kind regards, Lynne

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com... Hi again Steve > The mystery attaches to her first two husbands, and > especially > Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS. > > > his eldest daughter by Agnes GREEN also had FAIRFAX in > her name. She is the 4th child ........... Found her later last night in the NSW birth indexes under 'unnamed' child of Alfred JD FRANCIS and Agnes MA > >> MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES, >> Walter William > McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died > 20 Mar > 1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER: > THWAITES, > Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; > MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane > > MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in > Adelaide, > SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841 > in > Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria, > Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William, > Born > ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN, > Jane; > Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide, > because > Sydney marriage was bigamous. ??? So would the South AUS marriage be!! If your married somewhere then you are married. Any subsiquent marriage if spouse still living would be bigamous where ever it occured > Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley I wondered if he's been in touch with the Eden Monaro FHS ?? > 3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar > 1859 in > Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, > NSW, AUS; > Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William Ada Anne WHITE was living at Eidleigh Station, Hoskinstown Eden - Monaro NSW 1903 Electoral roll Percy COWLEY was a stock Inspector at Tenterfeild NSW 1903 E roll Walter Wm Alfred THWAITES was a photographer of 123 Enmore Rd Newtown , 1903 E roll Could be more info on him in the 'Electronic Eye ' book Bye -- MargM Beautiful Central Coast of NSW