O.K., here's my rant of the day ... A few months ago I got an e-mail from someone claiming to be a distant cousin (based on the info on my web site). He wanted information about my ggg grandparents and their kids. I e-mailed him information. Then he asked for copies of pictures I have on my web site. I burned a CD and mailed it to him. Then he asked for a gedcom. I cut a gedcom containing the folks he's supposedly related to (minus ones born after 1900, for privacy reasons) and sent him that. Then he wrote back. "No no! I want a gedcom of your whole family tree - everyone on your web site!" This is over 4000 names, most of whom have not one shred of relationship to him. Actually, it hasn't been established to my satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME - probably because he has sent me NO information at all. Bearing in mind that it's the holiday season, and we're all supposed to be nice, please help me compose a message to this character informing him that I have absolutely no intention of sending him the entire results of my years of research, to do God knows what with. The language I would use right now would be, shall we say, less than tactful. Grrrrr!!!

Ignore the person. Stop all communication, immediately. They are what I call "genealogically immature." That is, they're new to the net; new to ideas like "copyright;" have no clue what they're doing; and they WON'T be willing to go crawling around on their knees in the attic looking at the backs of pictures when it comes time to _return_ the favor. I promise you that. They will disappear, and their e-mail address will suddenly begin to bounce back to you when they think they've gotten all that they can possibly squeeze from you. Meanwhile, put copyright info on each and every item that you've put up on the web. I warn you...it's not an "if," but a "when." There are too many internet newbies out there who have no clue, and who will cut and paste and provide no credit without a second thought about it. If people are so blah-brained as to ask you for everything that you have in the first place, then you should see the clue right there that they have absolutely nothing in their own database, that they're just beginning, and that they want you to do all the work for them....They want to take the "easy way out." That's not genealogy. Unfortunately, that's one of the side effects of the "immediate information gratification network" (which is what I jokingly call the Internet). It has created a new breed of people who think that everything in the world is now categorized and sorted for them - all available simply by asking. While that may be the case in a lot of situations on the Internet, it's really not the case in genealogy. For as much as there is in the records now, its never a complete database about YOUR family. 8^) You still have to do SOME leg work. And it's never "free." These people get frustrated by that and start looking around for all the people on the web who have already done the hard work and they ask them then for "everything that (they) have." You should be frightened when you get requests like that...and run the other way. In most every circumstance that you'll encounter like that, you will nearly always end up with _nothing_ in the end, and a changed e-mail address that bounces. If it makes you feel better, I've actually received three requests like that in the last year. They also learned what silence sounds like, too. I don't play that game, anymore. Been there; done that. I've learned the hard way, myself. Tell me what YOU have, too, and ask me what my mailing address is, or send me a attachment scan of something useful, or at least DISCUSS that possibility, THEN I'll trust you a little more. (Not "you" literally...) Those kinds of people never do that, though. However, they're never short on impossible tasks for you to do, or short of the otherwise rediculous requests. Stay away from them. It's easier. ...And forget the kind letter. There is never a kind letter that they will accept. Never. They'll relentlessly hound you until you cave (or until you or they finally get mad). Just know that you WILL meet again a few years later as your genealogical paths again cross somewhere; and hopefully, by that time, they'll have matured a bit, and become a lot more realistic, and more willing to actually share, and do some work. You're not alone. I'm willing to bet that just about every "hardened" genealogist in this newsgroup has had that happen to them in the past. Okay...here's the test. ...Ready? "Hi! Saw your web page. VERY nicely done, I might add! You're REALLY good at that! (wink-wink; batting lashes; cutsie, innocent smile) Listen...would you mind giving me everything that you have in your database...I mean everything? and expensively-done laser scans of ALL your old family photos? and photocopies of each and every page of ALL the old, historical books on your bookshelf which were handed down in your family? ...and...and...and..." (I'm sure I've left something out in the above, but someone in here will be able to add to the list of the usual requests, I'll bet.) Anyway... Quick...what's the correct response, now? "GET LOST, YOU!!!" (smacks the tiny, irritating mouse away so that it splats upon the wall) Oh! VERY good! Yer catching right on, there! 8^) Todd -------------------------------------------------------------- Todd L. Sherman/KB4MHH Gainesville, Alachua Co. FL E-mail: afn09444@afn.org Web: http://www.afn.org/~afn09444 -------------------------------------------------------------- Sazee <sarakay@cybercomm.net> wrote in message news:3c26a868.1796578@news.cybercomm.net... > O.K., here's my rant of the day ... > > A few months ago I got an e-mail from someone claiming to be a distant > cousin (based on the info on my web site). He wanted information > about my ggg grandparents and their kids. I e-mailed him information. > > Then he asked for copies of pictures I have on my web site. I burned > a CD and mailed it to him. > > Then he asked for a gedcom. I cut a gedcom containing the folks he's > supposedly related to (minus ones born after 1900, for privacy > reasons) and sent him that. > > Then he wrote back. "No no! I want a gedcom of your whole family > tree - everyone on your web site!" This is over 4000 names, most of > whom have not one shred of relationship to him. Actually, it hasn't > been established to my satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME > - probably because he has sent me NO information at all. > > Bearing in mind that it's the holiday season, and we're all supposed > to be nice, please help me compose a message to this character > informing him that I have absolutely no intention of sending him the > entire results of my years of research, to do God knows what with. > The language I would use right now would be, shall we say, less than > tactful. > > Grrrrr!!!

On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Sazee wrote: > O.K., here's my rant of the day ... > > A few months ago I got an e-mail from someone claiming to be a distant > cousin (based on the info on my web site). He wanted information > about my ggg grandparents and their kids. I e-mailed him information. > > Then he asked for copies of pictures I have on my web site. I burned > a CD and mailed it to him. > > Then he asked for a gedcom. I cut a gedcom containing the folks he's > supposedly related to (minus ones born after 1900, for privacy > reasons) and sent him that. > > Then he wrote back. "No no! I want a gedcom of your whole family > tree - everyone on your web site!" This is over 4000 names, most of > whom have not one shred of relationship to him. Actually, it hasn't > been established to my satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME > - probably because he has sent me NO information at all. > > Bearing in mind that it's the holiday season, and we're all supposed > to be nice, please help me compose a message to this character > informing him that I have absolutely no intention of sending him the > entire results of my years of research, to do God knows what with. > The language I would use right now would be, shall we say, less than > tactful. > > Grrrrr!!! Well, let's back up a minute. Let's try to give him the benefit of the doubt. It could be that he's making a legitimate request, but using less than precise or tactful language. Let's also examine your own reactions. I want all the information about all the descendants of all my ancestors. To me that is a fairly simple and a legitimate goal (not that I expect to finish it in my lifetime). This means that I often end up asking some new-found 4th cousin for "everything on your family". I try to explain why I want it and also that anything I post on the internet will have dates and locations of living people filtered out. This is usually sufficient to get the information I want. On the other hand, some people just can't understand why I want to information. Nor do they have any interest in the information I've already gathered on other branches of the family. If they don't want to give me the information, I don't make an issue of it. But I still want it. What exactly do you mean when you say "it hasn't been established to my satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME?" I think that my ancestor and my corespondent's ancestor were brother and sister. For me the evidence of this is sufficient. For her, it isn't. Does this mean I shouldn't have any interest in her family? Why are you reluctant to share your information? What could he do with it that you're afraid of? Just what are you planning on doing with "the entire results of my years of research" if not share it? Also, keep in mind that the results of your research do not necessarily belong to you. You cannot, for example, copyright your ancestor's birthdate. It doesn't matter how long it took or how much money you spent to learn it. Copyright on pictures belongs to the person who took it, not to the person who currently has the picture. If you have a 120 year old picture of your great-grandmother on your website, anybody can download it and do anything they want with it. But to your immediate question. If you don't want to deal with the guy, just ignore his emails. Don't try to write a tactful response. Just ignore him. Let him get his information off your website one name at a time. JMHO Steve http://users.ticnet.com/stevem/ --

Hi Steve, Thanks for your thoughtful response. Just to clarify, the person I'm referring to has asked for **ALL** of my research. He's related to me (if indeed he is related, see below) through my mother's grandmother. But he also wants information on all my other maternal lines, plus information on my paternal lines. I've already sent him everything I have on the line that I believe is his. He SAYS he is related, but has sent me no confirming information; in fact, he's sent me nothing at all. For all I know, he could be a troll just having a little fun. Or someone wanting to steal identities. (For that reason, I never share information on people born after 1900.) And no, I don't believe the information is **mine**. A lot of my data is already on my web site, free for the world to see. I respond readily to requests for information in other formats. As I indicated in my original message, I've already sent him the information that I think would apply to his line, plus copies of family photos. Happy holidays! Sazee On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:49:33 -0600, shmartonak@ticnet.com wrote: > >Well, let's back up a minute. Let's try to give him the benefit of the >doubt. It could be that he's making a legitimate request, but using less >than precise or tactful language. Let's also examine your own reactions. > >I want all the information about all the descendants of all my ancestors. >To me that is a fairly simple and a legitimate goal (not that I expect to >finish it in my lifetime). This means that I often end up asking some >new-found 4th cousin for "everything on your family". I try to explain >why I want it and also that anything I post on the internet will have >dates and locations of living people filtered out. This is usually >sufficient to get the information I want. On the other hand, some people >just can't understand why I want to information. Nor do they have any >interest in the information I've already gathered on other branches of the >family. If they don't want to give me the information, I don't make an >issue of it. But I still want it. > >What exactly do you mean when you say "it hasn't been established to my >satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME?" I think that my >ancestor and my corespondent's ancestor were brother and sister. For me >the evidence of this is sufficient. For her, it isn't. Does this mean I >shouldn't have any interest in her family? > >Why are you reluctant to share your information? What could he do with it >that you're afraid of? Just what are you planning on doing with "the >entire results of my years of research" if not share it? Also, keep in >mind that the results of your research do not necessarily belong to you. >You cannot, for example, copyright your ancestor's birthdate. It doesn't >matter how long it took or how much money you spent to learn it. Copyright >on pictures belongs to the person who took it, not to the person who >currently has the picture. If you have a 120 year old picture of your >great-grandmother on your website, anybody can download it and do anything >they want with it. > >But to your immediate question. If you don't want to deal with the guy, >just ignore his emails. Don't try to write a tactful response. Just >ignore him. Let him get his information off your website one name at a >time. > >JMHO > >Steve >http://users.ticnet.com/stevem/ >-- > > > >

In <BB8563051DFAF367.6440C0964B8A92DB.3150FF38F203EFB4@lp.airnews.net> shmartonak@ticnet.com writes: >I want all the information about all the descendants of all my ancestors. Which in theory would mean the entire human race... A bit ambitious ;-) -- Fridrik Skulason Frisk Software International phone: +354-5-617273 Author of F-PROT E-mail: frisk@complex.is fax: +354-5-617274 ========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======: Message-ID: <cancel.a0d5vs$akh$1@banani.complex.is> Control: cancel <a0d5vs$akh$1@banani.complex.is> Subject: cmsg cancel <a0d5vs$akh$1@banani.complex.is> From: frisk@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:13:11 GMT X-No-Archive: yes Newsgroups: microsoft.test,comp.lang.c,soc.genealogy.misc NNTP-Posting-Host: wonenara.ozemail.com.au 203.108.164.177 Lines: 1 Path: news.sol.net!spool1-nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!newsfeeds.sol.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspump.sol.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!sea-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!msrnewsc1!cppssbbsa01.microsoft.com!tkmsftngp01!tkmsftngp05!u.n.a.c.a.n.c.e.l.l.e.r This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.

In <BB8563051DFAF367.6440C0964B8A92DB.3150FF38F203EFB4@lp.airnews.net> shmartonak@ticnet.com writes: >I want all the information about all the descendants of all my ancestors. Which in theory would mean the entire human race... A bit ambitious ;-) -- Fridrik Skulason Frisk Software International phone: +354-5-617273 Author of F-PROT E-mail: frisk@complex.is fax: +354-5-617274

On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 04:15:34 GMT, sarakay@cybercomm.net (Sazee) wrote: >Bearing in mind that it's the holiday season, and we're all supposed >to be nice, please help me compose a message to this character >informing him that I have absolutely no intention of sending him the >entire results of my years of research, to do God knows what with. >The language I would use right now would be, shall we say, less than >tactful. I would send him a Christmas card with a picture of Santa descending a chimney. The pleasantry inside would be "Up Yours". Hugh

Think your "sharing" has gone much further that it should without something comming back. I'd tell that person I'm happy to help but if there is a family connection, I'd like to see what he has and perhaps be able to fill in gaps in your data. Father, how does what I've sent so far match his data and are there any discrepancies? I'd need more before I can consider additional information. I always offer sharing in the event any connections may be apparent. Searching: Houdek,King,Lames,Campbell,Croushorn, Gast,Roberts,Stevens, and lots of others. Bill Houdek bhoudek@swbell.net "Sazee" <sarakay@cybercomm.net> wrote in message news:3c26a868.1796578@news.cybercomm.net... > O.K., here's my rant of the day ... > > A few months ago I got an e-mail from someone claiming to be a distant > cousin (based on the info on my web site). He wanted information > about my ggg grandparents and their kids. I e-mailed him information. > > Then he asked for copies of pictures I have on my web site. I burned > a CD and mailed it to him. > > Then he asked for a gedcom. I cut a gedcom containing the folks he's > supposedly related to (minus ones born after 1900, for privacy > reasons) and sent him that. > > Then he wrote back. "No no! I want a gedcom of your whole family > tree - everyone on your web site!" This is over 4000 names, most of > whom have not one shred of relationship to him. Actually, it hasn't > been established to my satisfaction that he has any relationship to ME > - probably because he has sent me NO information at all. > > Bearing in mind that it's the holiday season, and we're all supposed > to be nice, please help me compose a message to this character > informing him that I have absolutely no intention of sending him the > entire results of my years of research, to do God knows what with. > The language I would use right now would be, shall we say, less than > tactful. > > Grrrrr!!!