If you are a newcomer to South African genealogy, you may have a lot of questions. Here are some answers to some of the most frequently asked questions: WHERE'S THE BEST PLACE TO BEGIN? If you're asking this on the Internet, presumably you have access to a web browser, and one of the best places to begin with South African genealogy is right here: http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/ WHERE CAN I FIND SOUTH AFRICAN CENSUS RECORDS? The short answer is: You can't. South African census returns are routinely destroyed after statistical information has been abstracted, so South African genealogists don't use them. WHAT DO SOUTH AFRICAN GENEALOGISTS USE THEN? One of the best places to begin is the records of deceased estates. These usually have a Death Notice, which should (but sometimes doesn't) give you the names of the parents, spouse and children of the deceased, or if the deceased was unmarried, the names of brothers and sisters. They have the wills, if any (except in the Cape, where wills and estate accounts have been filed separately from death notices in the older estates), and the estate accounts. The older ones are in the archives and have computer indexes, and you can search the indexes on the web here: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs_content.htm but be sure to read the introduction and explanatory text before searching. WHERE CAN I FIND SOUTH AFRICAN SHIPPING LISTS? First, they are not a good place to start looking. They are incomplete, and all over the place. If you want to know if some relative went to South Africa and died here, look in the deceased estates, not the shipping lists. In most cases, shipping lists are a last resort, or a means of providing "filler" information to round out the family history. Secondly, if you do want to try shipping lists, you need to know where your ancestor came from, and roughly when. If the answer is Germany 1859, the shipping lists have been published (Werner Schmidt-Pretoria, _Deutsche Auswanderung nach Sued-Afrika im 19 Jahrhundert_). Some other shipping lists have also been published, but they are fragmentary. If you are looking for ancestors who emigrated to Southern Africa in the period 1890-1925, one possible source is _South Africa_ magazine. This was published in London. The Johannesburg Public Library and the National Library in Tshwane have incomplete runs. You could try other libraries too. They published lists of passengers embarking at British ports for South Africa, and embarking at South African ports for the UK (and sometimes other places). _South Africa_ magazine is a useful source, if you can find it, as it also has birth, marriage and death announcements, and other personal news, usually of the richer members of society. WHERE CAN I FIND WILLS OR PROBATE RECORDS? With the deceased estates. See: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs_content.htm I did a search on the archives: what do the funny things like DEPOT and VOLUME mean? See the warning above: Be sure to read the introduction and explanatory text before searching. If you didn't, go here now: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/fields.htm HOW DO I GET A BIRTH CERTIFICATE? With some difficulty. First, to apply for one, you need to know the information you probably want to get from the certificate. That's Catch 22. Catches 1-21 are almost as bad. Birth cer- tificates are expensive. They take a long time to get. The indexes are not open to the public so you can't ask someone else to look them up. For more information, and applications forms, see: http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/ The good news is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS, Mormons) has microfilmed some of the registers, so that if you want the information in the register, as opposed to an official certificate, you can try there. If you want to know what the LDS has, go to their web site: http:// www.familysearch.com or http://www.familysearch.org , Click on LIBRARY, click on FAMILY LIBRARY HISTORY CATALOGUE, click on PLACE NAME enter South Africa Click on Civil Registration Click on HERE right at the bottom so you have a printable copy. HOW DO I GET A MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE? Marriage certificates are of little use to genealogists in South Africa. They do not give the names and occupations of parents. They are as difficult to get as birth certificates. For more information on getting marriage certificates see: http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/ Your best chance of seeing a marriage certificate, however, is if the couple got divorced, and you find a copy in the divorce records. SOME divorce records are in the archives, and you can find them here: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs_content.htm The archival references to divorces will sometimes speak of "illiquid cases" or "opposed applications", and sometimes there will be both. Make sure you order the right ones. They can be quite useful. Sometimes you can really get the dirt on your ancestors from these things - private detectives' reports on how many times they committed adultery, where and with whom, for example. Also, names and ages of minor children and who got the custody. If you still want a marriage certificate (or birth certificate), you need to apply to the Department of Home Affairs, Private Bag X114, Pretoria, 0001. Before they can issue a certificate, they usually want to know the kind of information you probably hope to get from the certificate. Marriages were registered nationally from 1923 to 1976, and after 1994. Between 1976 and 1994 some "homeland" marriages may have been registered separately. Before 1923 registrations were in the different provinces, and before 1910 in the different colonies. Before 1902 it was in the different republics and colonies. You still apply to the same place, but bear in mind that older registers are kept in the archives, and for a certificate to be written they have to be transferred from the archives to the Department of Home Affairs and then returned. This can take a long time. Also check the information above under "Birth Certificates" on how to find out if any of the marriage registers have been filmed by the LDS Church. Before about 1895 in many places marriages were only recorded in church registers. The situation is a lot more complex than described above, and the complexities are things you can ask about on the list, but the general description should give you some idea of the kind of questions that might be worth asking. WHERE CAN I FIND CHURCH RECORDS? With difficulty. There are well over 8000 separate religious denominations in South Africa, and many people change denominations 3 or more times during their lives. People move to a new town, and join a new denomination or religion, or become agnostics or atheists. The records of these denominations are all over the place too. Some of the older and larger denominations have centralised their records, but most have not. They are kept in local churches and can be damaged or destroyed by damp, acid paper or ink, insects, mice, fire or flood, or simply being tossed out in an over-zealous clean-up. Some of the smaller denominations keep very poor records. Forged marriage cer- tificates are common, especially in rural areas. If you know what denomination your ancestors were, and where they were living, when children were born or they were married, you can ask some specific questions on the SA Genealogy list like "Where are the Wesleyan Methodist Registers for Colesberg in the period 1860- 1880?" But general requests for look ups in church registers without mentioning a particular denomination, time and place are unlikely to get a useful response. WHERE CAN I FIND MILITARY RECORDS? Department of Defence DOCUMENTATION CENTRE Private Bag X289 Pretoria 0001 South Africa Tel 012-322-6350 ext 227 Fax 012-323-5613 The more info you can give the faster they can find details. They have a card index for military personnel who served in WWI and WWII. These give the service number, which can be used to find fuller service records. WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT? Go to: http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/sagen.htm and follow the links! -- This FAQ file is maintained by: Steve Hayes Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/ E-mail: [email protected] Last Updated: 2 November 2003 Suggestions for additions or improvements are welcome.

Published on: Thu Feb 19 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Carolyn Hammond --------- Where is Partutovie (?) Portutovie (?) Bohemia located? Grandfather Luis Mocka birthplace. Mother Anezka Balharka. Information came off Social Security. Any help would be appreciated! --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=42Q0ZUM0FE CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Wed Feb 18 23:55:01 EST 2004 Posted by: Donna Manuel --------- I am looking for some info on my great grandparents who supposedly came from Prague around 1903-4. Names were Susan and possibly Andras, or Andrew. Their daughter Amelia was my grandmother. Thanks for any help! --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=767NKOZV9G CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Mon Feb 16 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Joyce Horn --------- Trying to find lost relatives of Grandmather Hedwig Horak nee Blaha and Wilhelm Horak. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=91Q3OOJPJR CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

What type of clerk? Land and property http://www.okcabstract.com/glossary.asp Political http://bensguide.gpo.gov/9-12/glossary.html http://www.mcwdn.org/GOVERNMENT/Glossary.html http://www.apa.org/apags/advocacy/glossary.html legal http://www.browardclerk.org/bccoc2/faqglossary.asp "Don Saklad" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Around the web, would there be a glossary of city clerks professional > jargon?... > > or a professional jargon glossary of senate and house clerks > professional jargon of the state senate and state house of > representatives?...

Winnipeg is in Manitoba, Canada, Calgary is in Alberta, Canada There are some good records at http://64.141.101.191 "Ellen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > I'm searching for information about Christ Larsen, who was born i > 1894, Norway. > He emmigrated to Amerika in 1927 by boat from Kristiansund (the name > of the boat was: "Midnattsol") -> England -> Ellis Island. > > My ancestors recived a letter from him posted in Winnipeg, Calgary. > > In Amerika, he changed name from Kristian Fjøseide to Christ Larsen. > > His ticket to Amerika was bought in Trondheim. > > Thank you! > Ellen

When several organizations I belong to recently began offering remote access to Heritage Quest I remembered the positive things about it that I had read in these groups. After using it for several weeks, I must say that it pales by comparison to Ancestry.com. There are no primary marriage, probate, land or other records there, and the large section dedicated to "books" is largely useless for those of us who check the sources of secondary materials instead of taking them at face value. Worse still, the census records are shabbily indexed. For example, I have found several individuals in the Ancestry.com census index who do not show up at all in the Heritage Quest database. The only advantages I see are: 1.The few "indexed" census years HQ has, such as the 1860, that AC does not. (Although, let's face it, if we cannot trust the index what good is it really?) 2. The images are clearer on some of the earlier census records. I tried genealogy.com last month and found it ridiculously inadequate. All in all, I'd rather pay the $100 per year for Ancestry.com and get a tool I can use with confidence.

Thanks to all who replied, and thanks for the tips! SL On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:00:38 GMT, Scaly Lizard <[email protected]> wrote: >Hello, > >I have a book printed in 1793 in London, the Quinti Horatii >Flacci Opera, which has been gone over in two different >hands: the (presumably) first hand writ in ink, and dates >itself as 1815. This editor corrected typographical errors >and elucidated some points of the Latin usage and grammar >throughout the book. This editor did not sign a name. > >The second hand writ in pencil, and by the pattern of >marks and notes, this hand clearly used the book to >learn Latin. Although this scribe did not transmit a date, >he left his signature on the recto of (a), above the start of Q. >Horatii Flacci Vita E Suetonio. He also inscribed his initials, >"C. P. M." on the verso of (a2). Most tellingly, he also >inscribed the inside of the the front cover with "Greensboro >N.C.", and his signature again, "Cyrus P Mendenhall". > >His lineage and descendants are my concern. I have >identified the second scribe as Cyrus P. Mendenhall, >(1812(7?) - 1884), who married Nancy L. Staples (1828 - >1875). His mother was Mary Pegg, and his father was >Richard Mendenhall (1781 - 1851), his grandfather was >George Mendenhall ( 1751 - 1805), and greatgrandfather >was James Mendenhall (1718 - 1782). And of course, >James was a son of the Penn colony's Aaron Mendenhall >(1690 - 1765) who married Rose Pierson. > >Cyrus P. Mendenhall is listed as an attorney in Guilford >Co., North Carolina in 1850. He shows up as the Deputy >Grand Master of the Free And Accepted Masons of North >Carolina in 1850, 1851 and 1852. He later appears on >the Board of Directors of the North Carolina Railroad in >1863, 1864 and 1865. During this time, he is known to >have purchased three slaves for the NC Railroad in 1864, >when the NC Railroad was being rebuilt to serve the war >efforts of the Confederate States of America. > >As we all know, Jefferson Davis held some cabinet meetings >of the CSA in Greensboro NC, in 1865. It seems only too >likely that Cyrus, as a leading citizen of Greensboro, was >involved in Confederate national politics, if even only >for a brief moment in 1865. > >After Cyrus's death in 1884, his estate was subdivided >into housing for Greensboro College (today the UNC >Greensboro), as was the nearby large estate of the >Governor of North Carolina, John Motley Morehead. > >As a tantalizing extra, a Cyrus Mendenhall is listed among >those who negotiated the 1842 treaty with the Chippewa >which opened Minnesota and Lake Superior to settlement. >Not so coincidentally, a Mendenhall relation helped to >establish Minneapolis, with loans from the North Carolina >Bank in Greensboro. > >The above mentioned treaty contains a listing of recipients >of federal money for previous claims and operations, the >lion's share of which goes to John Jacob Astor, and i shouldn't >have to tell you who he is. Strangely enough, while the >outlays to JJA are listed as $37,994.98 of the congressionally >authorized total of $75,000, only $27,994.98 is accounted >in the "viz" entries. Most of the $28K went to JJA, but a >nice chunk went to a "Z. Platt esq.", who also represented >twelve other claimants to the $75,000 in reparations money >provided by the treaty. > >Cyrus P. Mendenhall is mentioned in two online sources as >a mayor of Greensboro in the 1870s, but the hard data is >not available online. Also unmentioned online is whether >Cyrus P. and Nancy L. Mendenhall had any offspring. > >So, i ask you, the learned and well-tread regs of s.g.m: where >can i turn for more info on Cyrus P. Mendenhall? I think it's >highly unlikely that i'd find any books on Greensboro NC >history in my local library, and i've hit a dead end online. > >My main question: how do i find out whether Cyrus and >Nancy had children? I know this seems unlikely due to >the estate being absorbed into Greensboro's College Hill >area soon after Cyrus's death, but is there any way to tell >for certain? > >Secondary question: I might be able to find 1 or 2 Greensboro >history books at the major library in my state, and might even >be able to have them loaned to my local branch for me, but >short of travelling to North Carolina on my limited budget, what >would be an online source that i could check for deeper info >on Greensboro, NC history? > >Tertiary question: Isn't the net amazing? I found a signature >in one of my old books and discovered a footnote of history. > >SL

Published on: Thu Feb 12 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Ruth Novotny --------- I am looking for any one related to my Mother Antonia Kolarik her Mother and Father came to America when she was four or five born 5-28 -08 in Prague she is deceased now and so is my Father and six siblings i am the only one left in my family my fathers name was Jan Novotny --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.muselik.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=96KMLPPOB7 CZECH INFO CENTER http://www.muselik.com/ Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Thu Feb 12 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Judy Broleman --------- The families - Hrebec, Bokor, Trcka, Hrach immigrated to the US between 1850 and 1880. If any of these family names are familiar to you I would like to hear from you to learn about the family. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.muselik.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=27YLX5XRV5 CZECH INFO CENTER http://www.muselik.com/ Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Thu Feb 12 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Shirley Rossmeisl --------- Looking for family or information from the Graslitz or Falkneau area. Emigrated to USA 1889. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.muselik.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=65D5RLXQOU CZECH INFO CENTER http://www.muselik.com/ Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Wed Feb 11 23:55:01 EST 2004 Posted by: Wayne Anderson --------- Looking for information on Wencel (Vaclau) Kvapil , born 1700 in Zales, Bohemia. Thank you in advance. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.muselik.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=49FKVBJ8CY CZECH INFO CENTER http://www.muselik.com/ Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Around the web, would there be a glossary of city clerks professional jargon?... or a professional jargon glossary of senate and house clerks professional jargon of the state senate and state house of representatives?...

Genjunkie wrote: > "Anne Chambers" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >>I understood Dave to mean the person the OP was referring to, not > > Arwin > >>Meiwes - seems pretty obvious. >> >>Anne >>South Australia >> >> > > > Great minds. I hardly think the girl needed to be told how to Google > someone. > Eight year olds do it every day. > > No, not great minds - I meant it seems pretty obvious that he was not advising her to google "Armin Meiwes". Anne -- The privacy.net address is a spam trap. Please reply to [email protected]

Genjunkie wrote: > "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message > news:[email protected] > >>On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:09:17 GMT, Türklopfer <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >>><[email protected]> >>> >>>>If anyone has any ideals or can help me out I would be greatful. >>> >>>If his name is Armin Meiwes, be cautious. >> >>Despite the not-helpful tone of the rest of that person's answer, >>it's not a bad idea to google for that person's name, just to see >>if there's anything you sould know. Put it in quotes and capitalize > > it > >>normally, something interesting might just come up. > > > Christ but you are naive. Your friendly troll is just that. Not some > magical source. Here is what you directed the young lady to, among > other garbage: > > "Armin Meiwes - The Homosexual Internet Sex Cannibal" > > Idiot. > > I understood Dave to mean the person the OP was referring to, not Arwin Meiwes - seems pretty obvious. Anne South Australia -- The privacy.net address is a spam trap. Please reply to [email protected]

Griffith’s Valuation This 1848-1864 valuation gives a complete list of occupiers of land, tenements and houses. Also known as the Primary Valuation of Ireland, it is arranged by counties and within counties by Poor Law, Union Divisions and within Unions by parishes. It includes the following information: townland address; householder's name; name of the person from whom the property was leased; description of the property; acreage; valuation. There are maps to accompany this valuation. On the maps are references to tenements and houses, which correspond to names listed on the valuation books. Thus it is possible to discover the homesteads of ancestors in the mid 19th century. Whenever a map reference is sent to me I will check for its exact location on the original Griffith’s Valuation maps. I can then proved an 1835 townland map with the location marked thereon. I can provide this service for any location in Ulster (nine counties). Further details from: [email protected] website: www.smccartan.utvinternet.com/INDEX.HTML

"Anne Chambers" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I understood Dave to mean the person the OP was referring to, not Arwin > Meiwes - seems pretty obvious. > > Anne > South Australia > > Great minds. I hardly think the girl needed to be told how to Google someone. Eight year olds do it every day.

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:09:17 GMT, Türklopfer <[email protected]> wrote: > ><[email protected]> > > > >> If anyone has any ideals or can help me out I would be greatful. > > > > If his name is Armin Meiwes, be cautious. > > Despite the not-helpful tone of the rest of that person's answer, > it's not a bad idea to google for that person's name, just to see > if there's anything you sould know. Put it in quotes and capitalize it > normally, something interesting might just come up. Christ but you are naive. Your friendly troll is just that. Not some magical source. Here is what you directed the young lady to, among other garbage: "Armin Meiwes - The Homosexual Internet Sex Cannibal" Idiot.

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Thanks for your help gang! You're welcome. Some good information came up in this thread regarding finding people--always useful to genealogists trying to find living relatives to interview. Better luck next time.

Published on: Mon Feb 9 23:55:01 EST 2004 Posted by: Frank Krischke --------- I am looking for any information about Krischke surname. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.muselik.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=52QWILLR0C CZECH INFO CENTER http://www.muselik.com/ Internet Premier Czech Information Resource