On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:58:00 +0000 (UTC), Guy Etchells <[email protected]> wrote: > >> My problems arise with details on paper. >> >> <snip> >> >> [email protected] > > >Oh how the world has filled with paranoid souls over the last 40 odd >years that I have been researching family history. >There was a time when we all shared full information freely no many >do not even acknowledge who they are. Not altogether -- think of the adoption acts that came in in the 1930s, which were hedged with secrecy. Things have become more open in recent years, largely as a result of children who were adopted in those conditions lobbying to have things changed. In the 1930s and 1940s people were sometimes never told they were adopted, and some only discovered when they had some hereditary disease that required a family medical history. >I was concerned when the UK government announced the proposal to >change the registration system in this country from a paper based >one to an online one, due to the restrictions placed on some >records. >Now I await the new system with longing, every new birth marriage >and death will be instantly online for all to access. >No longer will people fret that their birth details appear on a >website we will have returned to a situation lost for the last 20 or >so years a time of sense. > >In the UK there is nothing private about a wedding date, it is a >public ceremony if fact, if it is carried out behind locked doors >the wedding is not valid. >Birth details are not private, for years proud parents and >grandparents have taken out newspaper advertisements to advertise >the births & baptisms, everyone has a right to purchase everyone >else's birth certificates; why should we now be afraid of such >things? Agreed - in England, at least, marriages have been public affairs since 1754. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Guy Etchells wrote: >>... > There was a time when we all shared full information freely no many > do not even acknowledge who they are. You know what has happened to those days! > I was concerned when the UK government announced the proposal to > change the registration system in this country from a paper based > one to an online one, due to the restrictions placed on some > records. How long are the UK census records kept sealed? (In the USA it is 72 years.) > Now I await the new system with longing, every new birth marriage > and death will be instantly online for all to access. > No longer will people fret that their birth details appear on a > website we will have returned to a situation lost for the last 20 or > so years a time of sense. > > In the UK there is nothing private about a wedding date, it is a > public ceremony if fact, if it is carried out behind locked doors > the wedding is not valid. > Birth details are not private, for years proud parents and > grandparents have taken out newspaper advertisements to advertise > the births & baptisms, everyone has a right to purchase everyone > else's birth certificates; why should we now be afraid of such > things? > Have you ever heard of criminals "stealing" an identity (not to mention a bank account)? > Why is it acceptable to publish the pedigrees of the rich and famous > but not the everyday people? The well known are actually better protected against ID theft simply because they are well known! > As for the myth of fraud etc., secrecy is the haven for fraud, > openness is its enemy. "Myth"? Guy, you are still living in the 20th century, man. - RM

Hi all - I'm moving the "Living Person" discussion over to soc.genealogy.misc / GENMSC-L for a variety of reasons. While we won't be discussing the subject further in Methods, I would recommend all serious genealogists become sensitive to the issues involved. Be aware that we are losing access to genealogical data resources because the hysterical do not understand that "identity theft" is really just the media's euphemism for various banal crimes like stolen purses and credit card theft. These "identity theft" crimes have nothing to do with genealogical data. If we want courthouse information to stay open to us, the whole genealogical community needs to be debunking the "identity theft" hysteria and fighting to keep data open. ### Having said all that, do be aware that Aunt Sally may want to fib a bit about her age. She won't be totally thrilled if the industrious family historian posts her actual birthdate on a Website that the whole family visits. And there are dozens of even more legitimate reasons why living folks may not want details of their genealogy posted in a place where it's easily accessible. Please do be sensitive to the privacy concerns of the living. Irritating kinfolk is never a good idea. - Mod [email protected]

"Dr. Brian Leverich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Please do be sensitive to the privacy concerns of the living. > Irritating kinfolk is never a good idea. > Sure it is. There are times when it is good for them.

TINY TAFEL INFORMATION compiled by Steve Hayes, with acknowledgements to Christopher Long EXACTLY WHAT IS A TINY TAFEL? A Tiny Tafel is a condensed list of the surnames you aere researching, with information about the place and date of each line where it begins and ends, and an indication of your level of interest in that line. In a Tiny Tafel, an entry is made for each family line that is in the Ahnentafel Chart. It does not contain any personal details of those ancestors. Instead, it lists basic data about each family line - more specifically, a surname and then the years and places of the earliest and most recent persons. When looking for someone who's research might cross with your own, it would not be immediately helpful to be told all of the specifics of a list of per- sons. But, if you were told "I have research on the COLLINS family from 1700 to 1986, starting in England and ending in South Carolina" you would be able to immediately decide if there is a possibility of your lines crossing. This is the idea behind a Tiny Tafel. Tiny Tafels have a rigid format. This allows computers to more easily read and compare them. If you deviate from that format, it is very likely that your Tiny Tafel will not be able to be processed by matching programs such as the Tiny Tafel Editor and the Tafel Matching System. It is possible to create a Tiny Tafel using a word processor or a text editor (such as Windows notepad), but you need to know the specification and follow it exactly. This is why a special TT editor is useful, as it automatically checks for the correct format. If anyone would like a copy of the Tiny Tafel Editor, a shareware program by Chris Long, please e-mail me at [email protected] and ask for it. I will send it by e-mail attachment as a .zip file. WHY MAKE A TINY TAFEL? Think of it as a snapshot of what you are researching. At a glance, a person can immediately see your research and be able to tell you if any of your lines look like they might meet with their own. If they look promising, you both may benefit from sharing your research. Plus, there are ways to automate the process of comparing Tiny Tafels. The TT Editor program can be set to run fuzzy or exact matches on names,and places. SAMPLE OF A TINY TAFEL =========== SAMPLE TT BEGINS ============================= N Ronald Hickman A Villa Devereux A Route Orange A St Brelade A Jersey JE3 8GP A British Channel Islands T (0534) 43822 F Family History System (C:FAMILY .NAM) R No modem, but will answer snail mail R queries Z 40 Tiny Tafel Editor v2.2 --- This TT may be freely distributed! A350 1760*1760*ADAME\Cape Colony/Cape Colony A536 1860:1982:ANDERTON\Natal, South Africa/Natal, South Africa B340 1930.1951:BATAILLE\Natal, south Africa/UNKNOWN B552 1770*1953*BENINGFIELD\London, England/Durban, South Africa B552 1802 1802 BENNINGFIELD\Whitechapel, London/Whitechapel, London B632 1782*1800 BREEDSCHOE\Cape Town/Cape Town B632 1755*1755*BREITSCHUH\Eisleben, Germany/Eisleben, Germany B650 1940.1985:BRIAN\Chelmsford, Essex, ENG/Chelsmford, Essex, ENG B652 1829.1955:BRINK\Cape Town, South Africa/South Africa B655 1822*1866*BUEHRMANN\Amsterdam, Nederland/Ermelo, Transvaal B652 1940.1940:BURMEISTER\South Africa/South Africa B622 1881.1881:BURROUGHES\Holt, Norfolk, England/Holt, Norfolk, England B622 1919.1919:BURROUGHS\Pretoria, South Africa/Pretoria, South Africa C500 1942.1942:CAINE\Dundee, South Africa/Dundee, South Africa C516 1935.1967:CHAMBERLAIN\Natal, South Africa/UNKNOWN C430 1849.1882:CHILD\UK/UK D000 1883.1965:DEE\London, England/Durban, South Africa D146 1965.1973:DEVILLIERS\Pretoria, South Africa/Pretoria, South Africa D623 1916.1948:DURSTON\Plymouth, Devon, ENG/Durban, South Africa E452 1773*1773:ELLINGTON\London, England/London, England F450 1780*1825*FLAMME\Twiste, Hesse-Nassau/Cape Town, South Africa G431 1931*1931 GOLDBOLD\Umtata, South Africa/Umtata, South Africa H200 1868.1943:HAWKE\Natal, South Africa/Natal, South Africa H255 1797*1966*HICKMAN\England/Nazeing, Essex, ENG L162 1930.1930:LIVERSAGE\Natal, South Africa/Natal, South Africa L000 1903.1974:LOWE\Pietermaritzburg/Pietermaritzburg, South Africa L320 1910.1954:LUDIK\South Africa/South Africa M624 1907.1948:MARSHALL\Port Elizabeth, South Africa/South Africa M260 1935.1958:MCRAE\Natal, South Africa/UNKNOWN M460 1868.1961:MILLER\Kwelegha, E Cape, South Africa/Durban, South Africa N345 1826*1900:NEETHLING\Worcester, Cape Colony/UNKNOWN P456 1914.1945*PALMER\Pretoria, South Africa/Pretoria, South Africa P560 1888.1888.PIENAAR\South Africa/South Africa R534 1964.1970:RANDALL\Pietermaritzburg, South Africa/Johannesburg, RSA S363 1861.1894.STEWARD\South Africa/South Africa T250 1896.1926:THESEN\Knysna, south Africa/Knysna, RSA V536 1943.1946:VANDERPOEL\South Africa/South Africa V526 1900.1963:VONSORGENFREI\South Africa/South Africa W425 1905.1963:WILSON-YELVERTON\Natal, RSA/Natal, South Africa W623 1803.1803.WRIGHT\London, England/London, England W 01 Nov 1995 ============ SAMPLE TT ENDS =================================== Some notes on the structure: N Ronald Hickman <-- Name of person A Villa Devereux <-- Snail mail address A Route Orange A St Brelade A Jersey JE3 8GP A British Channel Islands T (0534) 43822 <-- phone number F Family History System (C:FAMILY .NAM) <-- genealogy software used R No modem, but will answer snail mail R queries S <-- for e-mail addresses etc Z 40 Tiny Tafel Editor v2.2 --- This TT may be freely distributed! Note that each of these "header" lines is preceded by a field letter: N for name, A for address, T for phone, S for electronic mail service (BBS, CompuServe, E-mail address etc). The last header field, Z, shows that it is the end of the header, and gives the number of lines that follow, and, optionally, the software used to edit the Tiny Tafel. Then follow the lines of the Tafel proper: D000 1883.1965:DEE\London, England/Durban, South Africa D146 1965.1973:DEVILLIERS\Pretoria, South Africa/Pretoria, South Africa D623 1916.1948:DURSTON\Plymouth, Devon, ENG/Durban, South Africa E452 1773*1773:ELLINGTON\London, England/London, England The first four characters are the SOUNEX code of the surname. Space Earliest date of Birth Interest level (* = high, : = moderate; . = low, blank = none) Latest date of birth Interest level Surname Earliest place of birth, preceded by \ Latest place of birth, preceded by / The interest level following the earliest year is usually taken as the interest in ANCESTORS of that surname. The interest level following the latest date of birth is usually taken as the interest level in DESCENDANTS of that surname. HINTS ON DRAWING UP A TINY TAFEL When you draw up your Tiny Tafel(s), here are some things to bear in mind: 1. Include the date If your genealogy program generates a Tiny Tafel, many dates may be left blank or be shown as 0000. Edit them to give a rough guess for the earliest and latest year of birth. A blank date will not help the matching system. A guess could at least get the century right. MOST MATCHING SYSTEMS IGNORE ENTRIES WITH NO DATES! 2. Include the place Many Tiny Tafels have a blank or "unknown" for the place field. This is of little use to other researchers. If you don't know anything else about the place, at least put the country. If your family travelled to many places, you may put in several surname lines to indicate some of the places. The dates should then relate to the family's association with those places. If a family emigrated from England to South Africa, for example, in the "South Africa" line you would put the date of the first and last members born there, not the date of the earliest ancestor born in England. DON'T FORGET THE COUNTRY! This seems to be a common failing with people in the USA who have compiled Tiny Tafels! One of the weaknesses of the Tiny Tafel system has been the lack of a thesaurus for place names. I suggest a good way of working around it is to use the abbreviations found in the Genealogical Research Directory, which are fairly widely known and used. For countries use USA (not U.S.A.), ENG for Eng- land, CAN for Canada, RSA for South Africa, WLS for Wales, SCT for Scotland, GER for Germany, BEL for Belgium, FRA for France, AUS for Australia, NZ for New Zealand, and so on. 3. Include family lines you have data on, but are not researching If you have information in your records on families that you are not researching, include them in your TT anyway, but indicate only interest in descendants, not ancestors. This will enable other researchers in those families to contact you. 4. Be careful what e-mail address you use If you post a Tiny Tafel on newsgroups, remember that spammers harvest addresses from newsgroups. It can be useful to get a webmail address (such as Hotmail) where spam can be automatically deleted. 5. You can use different Tiny Tafels for different purposes While it is good to have a comprehensive Tiny Tafel for matching purposes, if you want to post it in newsgroups, mailing lists etc, it is often better to create a smaller one for that purpose -- if a list, for example, deals with a single English county or US state, make a shorter list with just the names that have connections with that place for posting there. Above information compiled by Steve Hayes with acknowledgements to Chris Long E-mail: [email protected] Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/tafel.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/famhist2.htm

Published on: Mon Feb 23 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Barb Bradley --------- I am looking for any information on my paternal grandparents surname of Latal; Josphus, Ignac, Francisus Latal or Lattal. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=329YVNVDOR CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Mon Feb 23 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Barbara Giannavola --------- Looking for Czech relatives for my mother whose parents came to US from Czech. or Austria in early 1900s. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=19HZVR2C2H CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Mon Feb 23 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Frances Hrdina --------- I am looking for information on where in Bohemia my Czech Great Grandfather Josef Hrdina came from. His death notice and death certificate list only Bohemia. Not sure when he married my great grandmother Anna Viduna but between 1871 and 1875 when first child was born in Chicago. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=973FQ3PD2Y CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Mon Feb 23 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Richard Ruzicka --------- I am seeking info on Anton J Ruzicka born July 1834 to Joseph and Maria nee Frana of Briza. They arrived in St. Louis, Mo. in 1867, with sons Francis A. and Anton Jr. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=50XBFHLZSV CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Hi, all, If you are talking about Buffalo in New York state, see: http://www.bfn.org/~roots/vital.htm Good luck! On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, P & L wrote: > Hello group, > Please tell me where to order an USA deathcertificat Buffalo NY 1895. > Or perhaps an newspaper obituary concerning a Thomas White, and for > his whife Emma White nee D'Arcis died Buffalo 1892. > Thank you very much, from The Netherlands, > Patrick van Griethuysen > > -=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=- Webmaster: Cynthia Van Ness, MLS -- roots AT bfn DOT org Roots: The Buffalo NY Genealogy Forum -- http://www.bfn.org/~roots With obits, vital records, city directories & hundreds of local links

The Free Query Forums are now up and running at Lineages.co.uk. So start posting now

The Free Query forms at Lineages.co.uk is now up and running. Please start posting now

Published on: Sun Feb 22 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Randy Braunreiter --------- Looking for any family ties living or deceased. Any information appreciated. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=69RHPN3FWY CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Sun Feb 22 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Valerie Zak --------- Mu grandmother Marie Ververka was born Aug 28,1885. Grandfather Josef Zak of Libice born Nov 24 1877. I am looking for any information. Thank you! --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=10HTGHWJKO CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Sun Feb 22 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Michelle Moore --------- Canadian looking for Bohemia area Vrba or Smesny surnames. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=95DVVJ35SC CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Published on: Sat Feb 21 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Rose Haarth --------- My father Anton Snopek came from Kunovice u Uherske-Hradiste, Moravia in 1922, His sisters last name was Hrachova. Looking for anyone left from that family. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=591VHGBHNX CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

On 20 Feb 2004 in soc.genealogy.misc, P & L wrote: > Please tell me where to order an USA deathcertificat Buffalo NY 1895. > Or perhaps an newspaper obituary concerning a Thomas White, and for > his whife Emma White nee D'Arcis died Buffalo 1892. > Thank you very much, from The Netherlands, Cynthia Van Ness is a librarian in the Buffalo area, and runs the Buffalo, New York Genealogy Forum. You should find useful information at her website: http://bfn.org/~roots/ -- Joe Makowiec can be reached at: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe

Published on: Fri Feb 20 23:55:00 EST 2004 Posted by: Melvin Besthorn --------- I am searching for ancestors of these surnames. Any information you can provide is appreciated in advance. --------- For contact, please, visit this Bulletin Board posting published in category Find An Ancestor at http://www.czechinfocenter.com/bb/vw.cgi?recid=63M4IPQF45 CZECH INFO CENTER http://page2go2.com/jfloklnl Internet Premier Czech Information Resource

Hello group, Please tell me where to order an USA deathcertificat Buffalo NY 1895. Or perhaps an newspaper obituary concerning a Thomas White, and for his whife Emma White nee D'Arcis died Buffalo 1892. Thank you very much, from The Netherlands, Patrick van Griethuysen

The procedure varies by state and local community. In your case, death records from the late 1800's would be filed with state. Usually it is the Department of Health. The local community where the person died may also have death records from the 1800's. Your best bet is to visit the New York State Government web site. Here is a link. http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/consumer/vr.htm You can also see if the City of Buffalo has a web site and search out the city clerk's vital records section. "P & L" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Hello group, > Please tell me where to order an USA deathcertificat Buffalo NY 1895. > Or perhaps an newspaper obituary concerning a Thomas White, and for > his whife Emma White nee D'Arcis died Buffalo 1892. > Thank you very much, from The Netherlands, > Patrick van Griethuysen