Hi again, Just wanted to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate the day ! And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which came out of Scotland or England, but they were known as "Irishmen" in Canada or the US. That applies to my KERR and HENDERSON ancestors who left Ireland and came to Canada in the 1820's. And, William KERR came down to MA and married here in 1876. His wife had come to the US as an infant (in a basket). Her parents were a HANNAH / RITCHIE couple, and they had been born in Ireland, but married in Scotland. And, my (now) husband's grandparents were a GAVIN / WHELAN couple who came from Ireland and settled in Waltham and had ~8 children. I know about their parents' names, but don't know about siblings and / or cousins of them. So, I don't know if they had relatives in New England, or in Canada. And, James GAVIN married an Annie Mary Magdalene McLOUGHLIN, and it was thought that they both came from Ireland. But, last year I found out she was born in London, England. (or McLAUGHLIN) Betty (near Lowell, MA) FYI's: (My EX had a "Mary McCARTHY" mother.) I listened to a book-author being interviewed over the weekend, and he said, "In Ireland, every time you turn around, you will see a MURPHY !" (most popular name) (Book? "Shannon" ?????) (I adopted the GAVIN List last year.) (I'm still looking for descendants of Peter and Margaret GAVIN in early 1900's Waltham.) .. Don't forget that many of the "morning news shows" on TV this week are taking place in Ireland ! I think the TODAY show is in Inniskerry (sp?). Remember to check the archives of all the Lists and Boards for your surnames and place-names. And, please remember to check the on-line auctions for for your surnames and place-names.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:27 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] Surnames from IRELAND and Scotland (GAVIN,etc.) > Just wanted to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate the day ! In Ireland, only Roman Catholics celebrate this day, mainly by going to Mass. ONLY the Irish RCs quietly celebrate in the rest of the UK. It is only in North America that everyone celebrates, regardless of race, colour or creed. In the UK, especially in Ireland (according to our many Irish friends) they find this extremely odd. > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which > came out of Scotland or England, Very true! > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > Canada or the US. Pardon? Only if they themselves claimed to be. Please don't presume what may have occurred in the US, may have also taken place in Canada. Canadians would not automatically assume a Scots name was Irish or vice versa. They would rely on two things before making any definate assumption: 1) as I said, if the person told them they were Irish or Scots; 2) the accent. This is definately from my own experience of having lived in Scotland and England. In Devonshire I was asked repeatedly if I were Irish. The reason was I'd picked up a mixture of the accents from the girls I chummed with .. a lass from each of the following places, Dumbartonshire, Fifeshire, Yorkshire and Lancashire .. plus my husband was from the 'posh' Hove Sussex. I'd never stepped foot in Ireland, nor at the time did I know anyone with an Irish accent. After a year in Devon, folk elsewhere thought that is where I was born. In Canada, I was constantly asked if I was English, particularly if from the London area. Even my Scottish mother had a difficult time understanding me, when she visited. I am a Canadian, born and bred. My great-grannie was a nee MCCLUSKY. From all I've learned about her, she'd have 'decked' anyone who even suggested she was Irish. She only died in 1943 at age of 88, so there are many cousins and a few aunts/uncles who recall her vividly. She was a Scot through and through. Many people believe MCCLUSKY or MCLUSKY (& those with the 'E' included) are Irish names. Possibly in my case too, but there is an ancient Scots name of LUSKY, which eventually became M'LUSKY, MACLUSKY, MCLUSKY, so on and so forth. Unfortunately I may never know where mine originated, primarily due to the fact of how very common the name is in both Ireland and Scotland, and simply ... the records have not survived at all, in either country! There are/were no passenger lists between Ireland, Scotland and/or England. > That applies to my KERR and HENDERSON ancestors who left Ireland and came > to > Canada in the 1820's. And, William KERR came down to MA and married > here > in 1876. His wife had come to the US as an infant (in a basket). Her > parents were a HANNAH / RITCHIE couple, and they had been born in > Ireland, > but married in Scotland. In Canada, most Canadians wouldn't associate KERR, RITCHIE or HENDERSON with Ireland. Traditionally they are not Irish names. KERR & RITCHIE are considered Scottish names, whereas HENDERSON may be a toss-up with some believing it is English and some thinking Scots. I've all 3 of those surnames several times within my Scottish lines (time span - 1697 to 2000), plus my English husband has HENDERSON in his background (c1820) in West Sussex, which is in the very south of England. Your families of those names may have come over from Ireland, but were they really Irish? Many Scots went off to Ireland to live. Many Irish went to Scotland, changed their names. They may have bocame affiliated with or under the protection [after swearing alligence to] of a particular clan. Under those circumstances, many took other surnames. Remember .. the Irish were looked down on, and the Irish did everything they could to 'blend in' with the natives. Then in a generation or so, may have carried their 'new' name back to Ireland. Many a Scot changed their names too, for various reason including those already mentioned, although I've never heard of any taking on an "Irish" name. The constant changing of names is one of the reasons why research in Scotland, can be extremely difficult and one has to dig deeply if any hope of uncovering the correct families. Some families/clans were notorious for constantly changing their names, affliations. A father, son and grandson may each have a totally separate surname at the same time. On top of that, there was no standard of spelling for anything at all. When I lived in Scotland in the late 1960s, it was said at least one quarter of the population had Irish origins .. but it was hard to tell ... just as one of my neighbours was of West Indian ascent, one was Maltese, one was Korean, one was from British Guiana (as it was called then) and one was from Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) ... all had broad [Lowland] Scots accents. Do you have your families on passenger lists as coming from Ireland? What was the Irish port they sailed from? Did you know that many ships from both Scotland and England put into Ireland, before setting off across the Atlantic? The last port of call is the one listed on the manifests, so many ships carrying Scots or English, who boarded in those countries, appear to be from Ireland ... but are not. Toni