----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" <bbffrrpp@comcast.net> To: <genmassachusetts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:09 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] History Book for Canada: People Down to MA > Hi Trena, > > It was not just hearsay when I said that my ancestors were referred to as > "Irishmen." There is a very large, history book about 2 areas in > Canada, > and I was able to borrow it from my local library. (This Library > borrowed > it from a university in VT.) So, I was able to read that for myself: > > History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Quebec and Prescott, Ontario: From > the Earliest Settlement to the Present (1896) > Thomas, Cyrus (Author) > > Patrick KERR and William HENDERSON are both mentioned in that book, and it > says they were both "Irishmen." I did not say your KERR or HENDERSON weren't Irish. I was responding to the broad swath of your paint brush (below, from your original post): > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which > came out of Scotland or England, > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > Canada or the US. You did not say it was __ your __ family so described. To me, your comments were saying no one could tell the difference between an Irish, Scottish or English surname; that in Canada and the US all were considered Irish . I have no idea about the US, as I have almost zilch experience of researching in the US, but I certainly have more expierence in Canada and do most certainly know about Canada, and Canadians. I knew this simply was not true for Canadians, now, nor in the past, strictly with regards to your comments above. I was born in 'New Scotland', aka Nova Scotia, of a Scottish born (WWll Bride) mother. I lived in Scotland and England after I was married to an Englishman, who came here after we wed. 98% of my research is in Scotland and England. My Canadian research centres on NS, PEI and NB ... all that is connected to the same group of people, descending to one half of my grandmother's family (backwards from her mother) and involves Scottish, English, Irish, German and Mi'kmaq ancestors. Those ancestors, excepting the Mi'kmaq, on this side/line of my paternal grannie's family who were the first into Canada, were UEL. One of my 5 x g-gm was the first white female, third settler overall, on the Miramichi. She was the only one in that era/generation, who was not an UEL, but 2 of her husbands were, one of whom is my 5 x g-gf. By the time I was 7y old, I could have told you who my 5 x g-gf was in PEI, from my father's maternal grandmother's side. I didn't know he was my 5 x (thought he was around 9th), but I knew his full name and the name of his first wife, who never made it to PEI. I knew her background (mother's nee) and where they'd originated. I also could have given you the full names of my 2 x g-gp on Dad's paternal side, back in England and those on his mother's paternal side. My first 6+ years of life were spent in the house my g-gf built for his new bride who came from PEI. Each line kept family bibles ... although that was the norm for nearly everyone in those days. Three of our's survive, but are in other hands, not mine, but the basic info was passed down. On my mother's side, I could have given you more info by age 7, with more approx. dates. My mother is a fiercely proud Scot and when they are like that, they know their Scottish history and their ancestry! My father's paternal grannie was exactly the same. My parents met in Ireland, where my Mum was living at the time, though the wed in Scotland. I have lived most of my life in an area of Ontario where over 40,000 Irish arrived within just a few years during the famine. A good majority came during 1846-47-48. We had a great in-flux of Scots during the same time frame. In fact, today .. if you were to go to Perth or Lanark or Glengarry Ontario, you would find many (especially in the post-50y age range) with a Scottish accent ... none of whom have ever been out of Ontario, far less Canada. In other words, they have never been to Scotland. > (I've been researching them for 5-6 yrs. on-line, and another descendant > of > their family-group probably started researching them 20 years ago.) [[ If you had meant your comments to be in regard only to your own family surnames, you should have stated that fact. ]] Sorry, but what has your's and the other descendant's experience got to do with anything? Are you implying because you and another descendant have been searching for several years that makes you both experts ~ so it is OK to make sweeping comments about things and no one should not query them, or correct you, when they feel or know you have erred? Sorry again, but I do disagree. Not everyone claiming to be an experienced researcher of donkey's years is an expert in all things. Not too long ago, the Admin of a Can. list I'm on gave the wrong advice to a newbie, who had asked a question. From his question, I recognized right away he was in fact on the wrong list. His given data, within his post, pointed to an entirely different country. I garnered a great deal of data for him, actually finding his family in census, as well as a marriage for him in the other country. The List Admin told him I was wrong and sent him on a wild goose chase in Can. Why? Because of one little thing in his post that she was convinced meant something entirely different than it did. :Even when I proved her wrong, she would not say 'sorry'. Why? As she quoted to me, she was an experienced researcher of over 30y and in fact is a paid professional researcher. Since I've only been researching roughly 20y (mainly on trips to England and Scotland while visiting family and friends), and only 10y (now) on-line, plus I do not charge for helping other people (even when it costs me money to do so), she told me I was not as 'experienced' as she was. My whole family is ex-military, including my son, my husband, my father, my mother and myself. Attempting to 'pull rank' doesn't work with us. ... oft times one's life experiences and other hobbies (apart from family history research) also comes into play ... Toni

Trena, I suspect we are discussing apples and oranges. I do know Betty to be a very helpful individual when it comes to research. I also know she doesn't claim to be an expert and doubt she meant to come across with a definitive statement about Irish. I took her comment to mean that just because they came out of England and Scotland, they could be Irish and to be aware of that. I know from my own Canadian research that the nationality of a person was tracked much more in Canada than in the U.S. I would like to either drop the conversation or maybe change it to be more helpful for Irish descendants that might have ancestors immigrating from England or Scotland. Now, if I could just find descendants of my Scottish ancestors (Elliot, Falconer, Gibson, and Nelson) that went to Montreal and know something about their ancestors like yours did, I would be in seventh heaven. Sue Richart Chewelah, Washington On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Trena wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Betty" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:09 AM > Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] History Book for Canada: People Down to MA > > > > Hi Trena, > > > > It was not just hearsay when I said that my ancestors were referred to as > > "Irishmen." There is a very large, history book about 2 areas in > > Canada, > > and I was able to borrow it from my local library. (This Library > > borrowed > > it from a university in VT.) So, I was able to read that for myself: > > > > History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Quebec and Prescott, Ontario: From > > the Earliest Settlement to the Present (1896) > > Thomas, Cyrus (Author) > > > > Patrick KERR and William HENDERSON are both mentioned in that book, and > it > > says they were both "Irishmen." > > I did not say your KERR or HENDERSON weren't Irish. I was responding to > the > broad swath of your paint brush (below, from your original post): > > > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames > which > > came out of Scotland or England, > > > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > > Canada or the US. > > >