My ancestor Duncan STEWART(sp) arrived in Mass. in the mid 1600s, probably exiled as a result of war. 1. He supposedly was at the Iron Works and I don't know if this was at Saugus or Ipswich. 2. He married Anne Winchurst probably at Ipswich. 3. I'm interested in Their son James who married Elizabeth, surname unknown. Does anyone have Elizabeth's surname? thanks, Charles

Is there a book or online site that has compiled genealogies for the first settlers of Newbury, Mass.? thanks, Charles

----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" <bbffrrpp@comcast.net> To: <genmassachusetts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:09 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] History Book for Canada: People Down to MA > Hi Trena, > > It was not just hearsay when I said that my ancestors were referred to as > "Irishmen." There is a very large, history book about 2 areas in > Canada, > and I was able to borrow it from my local library. (This Library > borrowed > it from a university in VT.) So, I was able to read that for myself: > > History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Quebec and Prescott, Ontario: From > the Earliest Settlement to the Present (1896) > Thomas, Cyrus (Author) > > Patrick KERR and William HENDERSON are both mentioned in that book, and it > says they were both "Irishmen." I did not say your KERR or HENDERSON weren't Irish. I was responding to the broad swath of your paint brush (below, from your original post): > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which > came out of Scotland or England, > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > Canada or the US. You did not say it was __ your __ family so described. To me, your comments were saying no one could tell the difference between an Irish, Scottish or English surname; that in Canada and the US all were considered Irish . I have no idea about the US, as I have almost zilch experience of researching in the US, but I certainly have more expierence in Canada and do most certainly know about Canada, and Canadians. I knew this simply was not true for Canadians, now, nor in the past, strictly with regards to your comments above. I was born in 'New Scotland', aka Nova Scotia, of a Scottish born (WWll Bride) mother. I lived in Scotland and England after I was married to an Englishman, who came here after we wed. 98% of my research is in Scotland and England. My Canadian research centres on NS, PEI and NB ... all that is connected to the same group of people, descending to one half of my grandmother's family (backwards from her mother) and involves Scottish, English, Irish, German and Mi'kmaq ancestors. Those ancestors, excepting the Mi'kmaq, on this side/line of my paternal grannie's family who were the first into Canada, were UEL. One of my 5 x g-gm was the first white female, third settler overall, on the Miramichi. She was the only one in that era/generation, who was not an UEL, but 2 of her husbands were, one of whom is my 5 x g-gf. By the time I was 7y old, I could have told you who my 5 x g-gf was in PEI, from my father's maternal grandmother's side. I didn't know he was my 5 x (thought he was around 9th), but I knew his full name and the name of his first wife, who never made it to PEI. I knew her background (mother's nee) and where they'd originated. I also could have given you the full names of my 2 x g-gp on Dad's paternal side, back in England and those on his mother's paternal side. My first 6+ years of life were spent in the house my g-gf built for his new bride who came from PEI. Each line kept family bibles ... although that was the norm for nearly everyone in those days. Three of our's survive, but are in other hands, not mine, but the basic info was passed down. On my mother's side, I could have given you more info by age 7, with more approx. dates. My mother is a fiercely proud Scot and when they are like that, they know their Scottish history and their ancestry! My father's paternal grannie was exactly the same. My parents met in Ireland, where my Mum was living at the time, though the wed in Scotland. I have lived most of my life in an area of Ontario where over 40,000 Irish arrived within just a few years during the famine. A good majority came during 1846-47-48. We had a great in-flux of Scots during the same time frame. In fact, today .. if you were to go to Perth or Lanark or Glengarry Ontario, you would find many (especially in the post-50y age range) with a Scottish accent ... none of whom have ever been out of Ontario, far less Canada. In other words, they have never been to Scotland. > (I've been researching them for 5-6 yrs. on-line, and another descendant > of > their family-group probably started researching them 20 years ago.) [[ If you had meant your comments to be in regard only to your own family surnames, you should have stated that fact. ]] Sorry, but what has your's and the other descendant's experience got to do with anything? Are you implying because you and another descendant have been searching for several years that makes you both experts ~ so it is OK to make sweeping comments about things and no one should not query them, or correct you, when they feel or know you have erred? Sorry again, but I do disagree. Not everyone claiming to be an experienced researcher of donkey's years is an expert in all things. Not too long ago, the Admin of a Can. list I'm on gave the wrong advice to a newbie, who had asked a question. From his question, I recognized right away he was in fact on the wrong list. His given data, within his post, pointed to an entirely different country. I garnered a great deal of data for him, actually finding his family in census, as well as a marriage for him in the other country. The List Admin told him I was wrong and sent him on a wild goose chase in Can. Why? Because of one little thing in his post that she was convinced meant something entirely different than it did. :Even when I proved her wrong, she would not say 'sorry'. Why? As she quoted to me, she was an experienced researcher of over 30y and in fact is a paid professional researcher. Since I've only been researching roughly 20y (mainly on trips to England and Scotland while visiting family and friends), and only 10y (now) on-line, plus I do not charge for helping other people (even when it costs me money to do so), she told me I was not as 'experienced' as she was. My whole family is ex-military, including my son, my husband, my father, my mother and myself. Attempting to 'pull rank' doesn't work with us. ... oft times one's life experiences and other hobbies (apart from family history research) also comes into play ... Toni

Trena, I suspect we are discussing apples and oranges. I do know Betty to be a very helpful individual when it comes to research. I also know she doesn't claim to be an expert and doubt she meant to come across with a definitive statement about Irish. I took her comment to mean that just because they came out of England and Scotland, they could be Irish and to be aware of that. I know from my own Canadian research that the nationality of a person was tracked much more in Canada than in the U.S. I would like to either drop the conversation or maybe change it to be more helpful for Irish descendants that might have ancestors immigrating from England or Scotland. Now, if I could just find descendants of my Scottish ancestors (Elliot, Falconer, Gibson, and Nelson) that went to Montreal and know something about their ancestors like yours did, I would be in seventh heaven. Sue Richart Chewelah, Washington On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Trena wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Betty" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:09 AM > Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] History Book for Canada: People Down to MA > > > > Hi Trena, > > > > It was not just hearsay when I said that my ancestors were referred to as > > "Irishmen." There is a very large, history book about 2 areas in > > Canada, > > and I was able to borrow it from my local library. (This Library > > borrowed > > it from a university in VT.) So, I was able to read that for myself: > > > > History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Quebec and Prescott, Ontario: From > > the Earliest Settlement to the Present (1896) > > Thomas, Cyrus (Author) > > > > Patrick KERR and William HENDERSON are both mentioned in that book, and > it > > says they were both "Irishmen." > > I did not say your KERR or HENDERSON weren't Irish. I was responding to > the > broad swath of your paint brush (below, from your original post): > > > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames > which > > came out of Scotland or England, > > > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > > Canada or the US. > > >

Finding Your Ancestors in Court Records” Court records offer a wealth of information for genealogists tracing their ancestors, but these valuable resources remain underutilized. Learn how to find and use court records, from the 17th through the 20th centuries, in courthouses, archives, books, microfilm, and the latest digital/electronic sources. Diane Rapaport March 21, 2009 10:00AM Lecture and Book Signing New England Court Records POLLARD MEMORIAL LIBRARY PRESENTS Contact Susan Fougstedt for more information at sfougstedt@mvlc.org Pollard Memorial Library 401 Merrimack Street Lowell, MA 01852 978-970-4121 Sponsored by the Friends of the Pollard Memorial Library Diane Rapaport is a great speaker, this lecture is free and open to the public. Karen T.

Hi Trena, It was not just hearsay when I said that my ancestors were referred to as "Irishmen." There is a very large, history book about 2 areas in Canada, and I was able to borrow it from my local library. (This Library borrowed it from a university in VT.) So, I was able to read that for myself: History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Quebec and Prescott, Ontario: From the Earliest Settlement to the Present (1896) Thomas, Cyrus (Author) Patrick KERR and William HENDERSON are both mentioned in that book, and it says they were both "Irishmen." (I've been researching them for 5-6 yrs. on-line, and another descendant of their family-group probably started researching them 20 years ago.) Betty (near Lowell, MA) FYI: The family-group left Co. Sligo, Ireland, in 1823 and migrated to Canada; the group settled in Argenteuil Co., Province of Quebec (which is north of the St. Lawrence River). The group included: William and Mary (KERR) HENDERSON Samuel and Catherine (?) HENDERSON Patrick and Elizabeth (KERR?) KERR Miss Elizabeth KERR (married in Canada to Levi MILLER) John and Ann (HENDERSON) KERR (This group has been discussed on many Lists for ~7 years. They probably had 40+ children between them, and thus had many descendants; some came down to MA, including my gr-gr-grandparents, Robert and Elizabeth (HENDERSON) KERR, and her married sister (and husband) also came down.)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanmayo1053 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: theclown16 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Jean: C.R. is Church Record. In some of the the records actual church is shown ie C.R. 1 etc. These are from the MA "Tan Books" series which collected everything they could find including church and burial records. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:27 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] Surnames from IRELAND and Scotland (GAVIN,etc.) > Just wanted to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate the day ! In Ireland, only Roman Catholics celebrate this day, mainly by going to Mass. ONLY the Irish RCs quietly celebrate in the rest of the UK. It is only in North America that everyone celebrates, regardless of race, colour or creed. In the UK, especially in Ireland (according to our many Irish friends) they find this extremely odd. > And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which > came out of Scotland or England, Very true! > but they were known as "Irishmen" in > Canada or the US. Pardon? Only if they themselves claimed to be. Please don't presume what may have occurred in the US, may have also taken place in Canada. Canadians would not automatically assume a Scots name was Irish or vice versa. They would rely on two things before making any definate assumption: 1) as I said, if the person told them they were Irish or Scots; 2) the accent. This is definately from my own experience of having lived in Scotland and England. In Devonshire I was asked repeatedly if I were Irish. The reason was I'd picked up a mixture of the accents from the girls I chummed with .. a lass from each of the following places, Dumbartonshire, Fifeshire, Yorkshire and Lancashire .. plus my husband was from the 'posh' Hove Sussex. I'd never stepped foot in Ireland, nor at the time did I know anyone with an Irish accent. After a year in Devon, folk elsewhere thought that is where I was born. In Canada, I was constantly asked if I was English, particularly if from the London area. Even my Scottish mother had a difficult time understanding me, when she visited. I am a Canadian, born and bred. My great-grannie was a nee MCCLUSKY. From all I've learned about her, she'd have 'decked' anyone who even suggested she was Irish. She only died in 1943 at age of 88, so there are many cousins and a few aunts/uncles who recall her vividly. She was a Scot through and through. Many people believe MCCLUSKY or MCLUSKY (& those with the 'E' included) are Irish names. Possibly in my case too, but there is an ancient Scots name of LUSKY, which eventually became M'LUSKY, MACLUSKY, MCLUSKY, so on and so forth. Unfortunately I may never know where mine originated, primarily due to the fact of how very common the name is in both Ireland and Scotland, and simply ... the records have not survived at all, in either country! There are/were no passenger lists between Ireland, Scotland and/or England. > That applies to my KERR and HENDERSON ancestors who left Ireland and came > to > Canada in the 1820's. And, William KERR came down to MA and married > here > in 1876. His wife had come to the US as an infant (in a basket). Her > parents were a HANNAH / RITCHIE couple, and they had been born in > Ireland, > but married in Scotland. In Canada, most Canadians wouldn't associate KERR, RITCHIE or HENDERSON with Ireland. Traditionally they are not Irish names. KERR & RITCHIE are considered Scottish names, whereas HENDERSON may be a toss-up with some believing it is English and some thinking Scots. I've all 3 of those surnames several times within my Scottish lines (time span - 1697 to 2000), plus my English husband has HENDERSON in his background (c1820) in West Sussex, which is in the very south of England. Your families of those names may have come over from Ireland, but were they really Irish? Many Scots went off to Ireland to live. Many Irish went to Scotland, changed their names. They may have bocame affiliated with or under the protection [after swearing alligence to] of a particular clan. Under those circumstances, many took other surnames. Remember .. the Irish were looked down on, and the Irish did everything they could to 'blend in' with the natives. Then in a generation or so, may have carried their 'new' name back to Ireland. Many a Scot changed their names too, for various reason including those already mentioned, although I've never heard of any taking on an "Irish" name. The constant changing of names is one of the reasons why research in Scotland, can be extremely difficult and one has to dig deeply if any hope of uncovering the correct families. Some families/clans were notorious for constantly changing their names, affliations. A father, son and grandson may each have a totally separate surname at the same time. On top of that, there was no standard of spelling for anything at all. When I lived in Scotland in the late 1960s, it was said at least one quarter of the population had Irish origins .. but it was hard to tell ... just as one of my neighbours was of West Indian ascent, one was Maltese, one was Korean, one was from British Guiana (as it was called then) and one was from Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) ... all had broad [Lowland] Scots accents. Do you have your families on passenger lists as coming from Ireland? What was the Irish port they sailed from? Did you know that many ships from both Scotland and England put into Ireland, before setting off across the Atlantic? The last port of call is the one listed on the manifests, so many ships carrying Scots or English, who boarded in those countries, appear to be from Ireland ... but are not. Toni

Hi again, Just wanted to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate the day ! And I'd like to remind researchers that many ancestors have surnames which came out of Scotland or England, but they were known as "Irishmen" in Canada or the US. That applies to my KERR and HENDERSON ancestors who left Ireland and came to Canada in the 1820's. And, William KERR came down to MA and married here in 1876. His wife had come to the US as an infant (in a basket). Her parents were a HANNAH / RITCHIE couple, and they had been born in Ireland, but married in Scotland. And, my (now) husband's grandparents were a GAVIN / WHELAN couple who came from Ireland and settled in Waltham and had ~8 children. I know about their parents' names, but don't know about siblings and / or cousins of them. So, I don't know if they had relatives in New England, or in Canada. And, James GAVIN married an Annie Mary Magdalene McLOUGHLIN, and it was thought that they both came from Ireland. But, last year I found out she was born in London, England. (or McLAUGHLIN) Betty (near Lowell, MA) FYI's: (My EX had a "Mary McCARTHY" mother.) I listened to a book-author being interviewed over the weekend, and he said, "In Ireland, every time you turn around, you will see a MURPHY !" (most popular name) (Book? "Shannon" ?????) (I adopted the GAVIN List last year.) (I'm still looking for descendants of Peter and Margaret GAVIN in early 1900's Waltham.) .. Don't forget that many of the "morning news shows" on TV this week are taking place in Ireland ! I think the TODAY show is in Inniskerry (sp?). Remember to check the archives of all the Lists and Boards for your surnames and place-names. And, please remember to check the on-line auctions for for your surnames and place-names.

Hi again, Just wanted to offer some FYI's about the PACHECO name in MA from 1880 to 1930 census reports. >From HeritageQuest, I find the name first showing up in MA in 1900. There were 17 people that year, most in Bristol Co. In 1910, there were 111 people, with 93 of them in Bristol Co. In 1920, there were 244 people with 218 of them in Bristol Co., but 18 people were in Middlesex Co. (I can't check the 1930 census.) Several years ago I wasn't able to find my Antonio / Anthony PACHECO in 1920. Someone responded to my query and found him as Tony PACHICO in Cambridge. And there were several people with that spelling in 1900 to 1920. And there were several people with the PACHEKO spelling. So, as with all censos-searches, you need to use your imagination when thinking up various spellings of a particular surname. Also, Mrs. Elsie (MOURA) PACHECO arrived in the US ~1905 as a 12-yr-old, intending to become an indentured servant for 7 years for a family living on Beacon Hill in Boston. When she married in Cambridge in 1912, her parents were listed as Frank MORRIS and Phoebe MORRIS. Their names had been Americanized. They were actually Francisco MOURA and Philomena (ROSE) MOURA). Betty (near Lowell, MA) FYI: Many Azorean families settled on Martha's Vineyard, and there is a web site about them. On census reports, Azorean people are often said to have come from Portugal (and other places). I have not been able to find out which Antonio PACHECO was my (now) husband's grandfather at the Ellis Island Museum web site. There were about 10 of them arriving ~1905 and coming to New Bedford, MA. All coming from Sao Miguel (aka St. Michael's). The 1920 census says that "Tony" arrived in 1904. I think I found one in the search arriving in 1903 which is a possible man, but he was 17, and the family thinks he arrived at Age 20. (As I said in my other posting this morning, I'm beginning to think that his wife lied to her children and grandchildren, and, while researching the family, I should not believe the "family stories." I believe Elsie remained angry at her late husband for over 50 years - for abandoning her - pregnant with twins and with 5 young children. He had been killed in a car accident in Taunton in 1927. There were 3 other men in the car when it hit a trolley. There is information in the archives of the MA Lists. She never remarried and lived up to 1980. Actually her 2 MOURA sisters also were widowed early. The 3 lived in Cambridge up to 1980. (MEDEIROS, PERRY (prob. PEREIRA) ) (Within the last 6-8 months I have heard from other researchers who said that the other PACHECO's "were" related to Tony PACHECO in Cambridge, but they can't prove it. So, the families in Somerville and Arlington could be related, and the families in the New Bedford and Fall River area, also.)

Hello, I just discovered something while searching the archives of the MA List. When I went to look for some of my old postings on the PACHECO name, I searched for that in the Subject line (only), and only found ~6 old messages. When I changed and searched for that name in the Text area (only), several more old messages showed up. One surprised me. A message from 2005 had the name in the Subject line, but it didn't come up in my first search. The reason? There was no space between the surname and the next character. For instance: PACHECO&MORGAN. So, I'd like to remind researchers, when you are typing in the Subject line, you really need to separate the names, words, and characters with a space. Otherwise you could be missing a lot of old messages which might help you in your search. Also, other researchers might not find your old messages, and they could have information for you. As it turned out, this is an old message I had seen in 2005 and had forgotten about. It mentioned a PACHECO family in Somerville and Arlington. And, since 2005, it has come to my attention that my (now) husband's grandmother probably lied to her children and grandchildren. She told them that all the other PACHECO's in MA were "not" related to her late husband. I have heard from other researchers within the past 6-8 months that the families "were" related, but can't prove it. I now believe that "Grandma Elsie" probably remained angry at her late husband for over 50 years, and refused to talk about him. He had been killed in a car accident in Taunton ~1927, and left her pregnant with twins and with 5 young children. She never remarried. (From memory, there were 3 other men in that car in Taunton, all from Cambridge. I don't think I found out whether they all died, or were just seriously injured. The car came around a corner and crashed into a "trolley." (Family remembered it being a train.) Don't forget it would have been a car on the road in -- 1927. ) (Information is in archives of Lists.) Betty (near Lowell, MA) (It was nice to see a supermarket full of smiling people yesterday -- people out in their "spring" clothes !) :o) Remember to check the archives of all the Lists and Boards for your surnames and place-names. And, please remember to check the on-line auctions for for your surnames and place-names.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanmayo1053 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: You read my mind..thank you! Jean. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanmayo1053 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Mr. Clown, We meet again. Right now I am wondering if my Capt. John Day, born Dec. 19, 1751 in Manchester, MA., was possibly son of John Day, Jr. and Anna, like in your posting. Then I'm thinking that John Day, Jr. was born on May 13, 1721, son of John Day, Sr. and Hannah. And that John Day, Sr. is the one who died in 1752 in your posting. Do you per chance have a date of death for John Day, Jr., husband of Anna, in Manchester, MA.? Once I get that all straightened out, there are pretty good Roots Web World Connect Project files with good sources which will pick up from there Time for a REALLY stupid question: What does C.R. stand for in your postings? Is it a birth record..or a christening record? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Jean. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: theclown16 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Various Day Entries for manchester. DAY John [sr. int.], and Elizabeth Hanson, at Wenham, Nov, 20, 1744. * Marriage Manchester 1744 HANSON Elizabeth, and John Day [sr. int.], at Wenham, Nov. 20, 1744. * Marriage Manchester 1745 DAY Timothy, s. Richard and Abigail, bp. Oct. 28, 1745, C. R. Birth Manchester 1745 DAY John [jr. int.], and Anna Driver, Feb. 27, 1745-6. * Marriage Manchester 1745 DAY Thomas, of Glocester, and Mary Webber, Feb. 19, 1745-6. * Marriage Manchester 1745 DRIVER Anna, and John Day [jr. int.], Feb. 27, 1745-6. * Marriage Manchester 1745 WEBBER (see also Wabbar, Weebber, Weeber), Mary, and Thomas Day of Glocester, Feb. 19, 1745-6. * Marriage Manchester 1746 DAY Hannah, d. John, jr. and Anna, bp. Nov. 23, 1746. C.R. Birth Manchester 1748 DAY Hannah, d. John, jr. and Anna, Feb. 16, 1748/9. Birth Manchester 1748 DAY ----, ch. John, jr., May 10, 1748. C. R. Death Manchester Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: theclown16 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: 1751 DAY John, s. John [jr. C.R.] and Anna, Dec. 19, 1751. Birth Manchester 1752 DAY John, sr., Sept. 30, 1752, a. more than 60 y. C. R.Death Manchester Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanmayo1053 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6924/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am searching for information concerning Capt. John Day, a sea captain, who was born in Manchester, MA. in Dec., 1751. He fought in the Revolutionary War.He moved to Weare, N.H. in ca. 1798, married there in 1800, and his children were born there. Several generations of this Day line lived in Weare, N.H. I am searching for any information concerning Capt. John Day in 1798 or before in Manchester, MA. I am also searching for his parents and family origins. Any help at all would be very much appreciated. Jean Mayo Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: artvillage Surnames: FARRINGTON/LOVETT Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/6923/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Would appreciate any info about John Peter Farrington of St.Louis, orig from Indiana, who married Mary T. Lovett. They had 4 children. Need info on Mary Lovett's children who may have family history that we do not have. Mary's parents, Thomas and Ann Lovett, moved to St. Louis with them and died there, so I believe family records went with them. Hope to hear from someone with ties to this group. Thank you. Jo Lovett artvillage@centurytel.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Many thanks to Betty & Helen for the information regarding the newspaper article that states ".. a deal reverts 1660's farm back to owners' family.". The descendent of this family who now has this land also has the surname of Varnum. This might help me trace which branches of the family used the V, F. or B in their name, and where they settled. Isabelle

____________________________________ Hi Isabel, One more apology to Betty, Isabel and all, I sent by return mail, an email that said it was from Betty, regarding the two surnames (or one, as the case may be) VARNUM and BARNUM. Sorry to confuse people because of my confusion. My apologies, to Betty, from Helen actually one more, still. I sent this to myself, (duh) Hope this gets the point across to the ones who are interested. In a message dated 3/15/2009 8:16:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, HEChan@aol.com writes: Hi Isabel, "V" and "F", are linguistically in the same location of the mouth. One is with sound and one is the F is silent--actually with air blowing out, but considered silent. It is very likely that they are the same surnames beginning with either of those letters. You'd have to find some history with that. Keep looking, or maybe you have it. Find which generation made the change and somehow find that they were truly the children of the ones who spelled the name with "V". We all know that it can change from sibling to sibling, or from clerk to clerk. My family changed from Bickel to Pickel, with the same situation with the silent or letter with sound, but I think this could have been upon arrival in this country. Since that time everyone has been Pickel or variations of the spelling on the rest of the name--Pickell, Pickel, Bickle Beickel etc--all of us being from what is to me, the Pickel family. It creates a challenge to find them, though, but it's possible to do so. Good luck hunting. Helen In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:06:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bbffrrpp@comcast.net writes: Hi Isabel, Here is the article. When I did a search for "Varnum," it came up, but you need then to find the words: 1660's Lowell farm .. in the subject of the article: http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_11885945?IADID=Search-www.lowellsun.com-www.lowell sun.com If you are asking about how close Lowell is to Andover, I can say that, if you were driving on a major highway (Rt.495), it would probably be a 15-20 minute drive (depending on who was driving). :o) Someone else would need to tell if VARNUM and FARNUM are variations on the same name. Betty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isabel Gilmore" <iagilmore@sbcglobal.net> To: <genmassachusetts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] Varnum surname-Lowell newspaper > Betty, In my ancestry , I have a Francis Varnum Bradford b abt 1843 Wilton > NH & he has a paternal grandmother Phebe Farnum, & a maternal great x 3 > grandmother Hannah Farnum b 1668 ma. to Samuel Holt from the Andover MA > area, close to the Lowell area. ( I think this is nearby as I look at my > map, --Since I'm on the west coast this is what it looks like to me but I > really can't tell may because our state borders are farther away from each > moreso than back east ). But, my question is: how do I find the article > re: VARNUM in this newspaper?-I downloaded the website, but couldn't find > the right heading to click on. Thanks in advance, Isabelle P. S Are the > names Varnum & Farnum of the same name family? > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENMASSACHUSETTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp 00000005) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENMASSACHUSETTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________ Need a job? _Find employment help in your area_ (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005) . **************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)