This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It is a pleasure to respond to a questioner who has been diligent in their research. By "I'm trying to find his day of death" I presume you meant Isaac Ayers Holmes. The state copy of his death certificate shows that he died at Essex 05-Aug-1909. The details in the certificate correspond to the birth information that you posted, and the informant was his wife, Mary Holmes [MAVR 1909:34:122]. When I have a chance in the next couple of days I will see what other records I can find for this family that you may not have yet seen. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: nobler170 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Town of Essex - Essex vitals has him being baptized 29 May 1831 the son of Thomas Holmes and Sally Ayres. According to MA vitals on line, Isaac Ayres Holmes married Mary Noble 13 June 1863. They had a daughter Sarah Elizabeth born 19 March 1875. She died as Sadie M. 12 September 1889. Their daughter Mary E. died 13 January 1889. Ruhamah Holmes was born Sept. 1878 (1900 census), and she married 16 May 1900 at Essex. Solomon A. Parsons They had two children, Charles Cushing Parsons, born 01 June 1906 at Manchester, died 12 August 1906, and Allyn Holmes Parsons, born 23 July 1911. Solomon died March 1968 per the SSDI. I'm trying to find his day of death, and anything on Ruhamah and Allyn. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: More detail would be useful. Did you mean Essex County or the town of Essex, MA? What additional names, dates and locations can you provide? What source is each of those drawn from? We need to know whether or not you have explored reliable sources so that we don't try to duplicate good work. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: > 30 or so years from now the "genealogist" then will no doubt have > no idea what their actual lineage is because of all the wrong stuff > posted. Jim - Even then serious researchers will be in good shape. The major genealogical journals will continue to be published (some are already available electronically). Major genealogical volumes will continue to be published (although one may need a Kindle or the like to read them). The most respected genealogists will continue to have peers or a knowlegeable editor review their work before publishing. > I am finding about an 80% error rate on the trees posted on > WorldConnect of the families I am researching I seldom even look at such trees because of their error rate. Although there are relatively few of them there are sites which try to be well-researched and well-documented, such as my Packard site: http://plymouthcolony.net/families/packard1.html Some other sites, although not fully documented, are still useful and generally quite reliable if under the supervision of an eminent genealogist, such as the Alden Kindred site: http://www.alden.org/default.htm The later should be regarded as an index to information, but as with all good sites corrections are welcome if properly documented. Good information is available online if one has developed the discrimination to recognize it. An excellent way to try to find good information is to explore the resources of the USGenWeb Project: http://usgenweb.org/ Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: nobler170 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: On the subject of the Holmes family, I am interested in a man named Isaac Ayres Holmes (Essex, MA). He married a woman named Mary Noble in 1863 and had three daughters. Two of the daughters died young, while the third, Ruhamah Holmes married in 1900 to Solomon Parsons. Any information on Ruhamah and her family would be helpful. They lived in Manchester. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dale, thanks for taking time out to respond to these questions. I no longer have a car so don't get to the library as often as I would like, so when I see 300 trees posted with the same info I think have I missed something? Ergo the query. It is sad that genealogists today have so little concept of research and just simply copy everything from everybody with no regards to correctness. 30 or so years from now the "genealogist" then will no doubt have no idea what their actual lineage is because of all the wrong stuff posted. I am finding about an 80% error rate on the trees posted on WorldConnect of the families I am researching, this HOLMES is just one of them. Again thanks for your input. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Lynde - It is unfortunate that some of the most useful and reliable compiled reference works are not generally available online. That is because they are relatively recent (reflecting the work of some of today's most eminent genealogists) and so are not in the public domain. I would encourage everyome investigating any New Englanders who arrived by 1635 to consult: Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration Begins: Immigrants To New England 1620-1633," 3 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1995). Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration: Immigrants to New England 1634-1635," 7 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999-2011). Those ten volumes are thoroughly documented from contemporary records and, in cases, recent books and articles which themselves are documented from contemporary records. This enables a researcher to locate the contemporary records pertainining to ancestors so that the researcher can draw his own conclusions based upon sound sources. NEHGS members have online access to all but the last two volumes of the Great Migration series. The last two will be made available when they get a little older (but I have library access to those). Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Lynde_R Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks Dale for your note. It certainly looks like the information I forwarded to Jim is far from accurate. Thanks for the more proven info. Lynde Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: > shouldn't Elizabeth's death read 1698? Jim - Yes - those familiar with me know what an excruciatingly poor typist I can be. It is possible that it should be 1698/99, but it appears not certain whether the clerk intended double dating. Note that, even if her age at death (86) was somewhat off, she was still significantly younger than William. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dale, I think there is a typo, shouldn't Elizabeth's death read 1698? Thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

I have to ask, what is the story on all the question marks in emails from Betty? Fred .. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2011 8:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: GENMASSACHUSETTS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 303 Today's Topics: 1. ZIMMERMAN / SINCLAIR (Ms Betty Fredericks) 2. SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN couple (Ms Betty Fredericks) 3. Re: SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN couple ([email protected]) 4. HOLMES Family ([email protected]) 5. Re: HOLMES Family ([email protected]) 6. Re: HOLMES Family ([email protected]) 7. Re: HOLMES Family ([email protected]) 8. Re: HOLMES Family ([email protected]) 9. Re: HOLMES Family (Abigail Lumsden) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:02:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ms Betty Fredericks <[email protected]> Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] ZIMMERMAN / SINCLAIR To: MA List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi Barbara, ? I use HeritageQuest from my local library,? and I just checked and there were about 100? ZIMMERMAN people in MA in the 1920 census.?? And, about 75 people in MA in 1910.? *???? In both years there were a half-dozen or so people with the name in Worcester County.??? Most were in Suffolk County those years.???? I found one family which is a small possibility,? but in 1910 "Lizzie"? (?)? is 28. ? ZIMMERMAN, CHRISTOF ? (1910 U.S. Census) MASSACHUSETTS ,?WORCESTER,?CLINTON Age: 59, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: GERM Series: T624 Roll: 627 Page: 138 ? There were a little over 175 people with the SINCLAIR name in MA in 1920.??? But, I don't see any Elizabeth or Lizzie who is a wife or mother. ? I don't know why this lady doesn't show up in the Index for the 1920 census,?? but she does show up at?? www.familysearch.org ? Name: Elizabeth A Sinclair Residence: Haverhill City, Essex, Massachusetts Estimated Birth Year: 1881 Age: 39 Birthplace: Massachusetts Relationship to Head of Household: Wife Gender: Female Race: White Marital Status: Married Father's Birthplace: Mother's Birthplace: Film Number: 1820691 Digital Folder Number: 4301087 Image Number: 00504 Sheet Number: 9 ? Household Gender Age Spouse Percy L Sinclair M 43y ? Elizabeth A Sinclair F 39y Child Wendell B Sinclair M 11y Child Irene M Sinclair F 5y ? Here is another Elizabeth: ? Name: Elizabeth Sinclair Residence: Walden City Ward 4, Middlesex, Massachusetts Estimated Birth Year: 1884 Age: 36 Birthplace: Massachusetts Relationship to Head of Household: Granddaughter Gender: Female Race: White Marital Status: Married Father's Birthplace: Mother's Birthplace: Film Number: 1820713 Digital Folder Number: 4301110 Image Number: 00649 Sheet Number: 9 ? Household Gender Age Clarence Stickney M 70y Elvira Stickney F 61y Melvin Stickney M 20y Harry J Sinclair M 37y ? Elizabeth Sinclair F 36y Elizabeth Sinclair F 8y Elvira Sinclair F 7y Ruth Sinclair F 5y ? Betty??????? (near Lowell, MA) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:19:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ms Betty Fredericks <[email protected]> Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN couple To: MA List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi again, ? I'm still looking at www.familysearch.org?? and thinking about the 3 sons.????? I do find a? Bertrand SINCLAIR in Gardner, MA,? who is something to think about. ? Name: Bertrand N Sinclair Titles & Terms: Residence: Gardner town (south part), Worcester, Massachusetts Birth Date: Sep 1877 Birthplace: Massachusetts Relationship to Head of Household: Spouse: Spouse's Titles & Terms: Spouse's Birthplace: Father: Father's Titles & Terms: Father's Birthplace: Massachusetts Mother: Mother's Titles & Terms: Mother's Birthplace: Massachusetts Race or Color (expanded): White Head-of-household Name: George Hubbard Gender: Male Marital Status: Single Years Married: Estimated Marriage Year: Mother How Many Children: Number Living Children: Immigration Year: Enumeration District: 1631 Page: 10 Sheet Letter: B Family Number: 227 Reference Number: 76 Film Number: 1240692 Image Number: 00347 ? Household Gender Age George Hubbard M Phild A Hubbard F George E Hubbard M Grace E Hubbard F ? Bertrand N Sinclair M Lydia Hubbard F ? That is the 1900 census,? and the 1880 census has him listed as a 2 yr-old in the Merwin SINCLAIR family in Westminster, MA.???? That Bertrand died in MA in 1910.????? Oh, he married in Providence, RI, in 1909. ? With a couple only being married for one year,? you always wonder whether a child resulted from the short marriage. ? Betty????????????? (near Lowell, MA) ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:18:10 +0000 (UTC) From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN couple To: Ms Betty Fredericks <[email protected]> Cc: MA List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]r.pa.mail.c omcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Betty, thanks for the information, but I don't think any of them fit my criteria, as Paul was born in 1929, and Bertrand would have been his older brother, but not that much older! haha,? I will see if I can get any more information from my stepdaughter.? The family was kind of 'fractured' and this might be very difficult.? Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Betty Fredericks" <[email protected]> To: "MA List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:19:45 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN ?couple Hi again, ? I'm still looking at www.familysearch.org?? and thinking about the 3 sons.????? I do find a? Bertrand SINCLAIR in Gardner, MA,? who is something to think about. ? Name: Bertrand N Sinclair ? Titles & Terms: ? Residence: Gardner town (south part), Worcester, Massachusetts ? Birth Date: Sep 1877 ? Birthplace: Massachusetts ? Relationship to Head of Household: ? Spouse: ? Spouse's Titles & Terms: ? Spouse's Birthplace: ? Father: ? Father's Titles & Terms: ? Father's Birthplace: Massachusetts ? Mother: ? Mother's Titles & Terms: ? Mother's Birthplace: Massachusetts ? Race or Color (expanded): White ? Head-of-household Name: George Hubbard ? Gender: Male ? Marital Status: Single ? Years Married: ? Estimated Marriage Year: ? Mother How Many Children: ? Number Living Children: ? Immigration Year: ? Enumeration District: 1631 ? Page: 10 ? Sheet Letter: B ? Family Number: 227 ? Reference Number: 76 ? Film Number: 1240692 ? Image Number: 00347 ? ? Household Gender Age ?George Hubbard ?M ? ?Phild A Hubbard ?F ? ?George E Hubbard ?M ? ?Grace E Hubbard ?F ? ? ?Bertrand N Sinclair ?M ? ?Lydia Hubbard ?F ? ? That is the 1900 census,? and the 1880 census has him listed as a 2 yr-old in the Merwin SINCLAIR family in Westminster, MA.???? That Bertrand died in MA in 1910.????? Oh, he married in Providence, RI, in 1909. ? With a couple only being married for one year,? you always wonder whether a child resulted from the short marriage. ? Betty????????????? (near Lowell, MA) ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:25:31 -0000 From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unkno wn/7387/mb.ashx Message Board Post: lineage is given on about 102 trees (some with sources but no documentation), all which state that the gr-gr-grandfather is William HOLMES m. to Catherine HILYARD. However, the only source that I have found so far is the Yorkshire Visitation that states William HOLMES (the gr-gr-grandfather) was married to Ellen HILYARD and who had no son William (gr-grandfather) to my ancestor William who married Elizabeth and settled in MA. Can anyone provide documentation to this lineage if it really exists, thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:29:26 -0000 From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unkno wn/7387.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sorry, part of my message was cut off- I am searching for the maiden name of Elizabeth, wife of William HOLMES, b. c. 1591/2 in England, who settled in Plymouth Co., MA. There are a number of trees on WorldConnect giving Elizabeth's maiden name as MADDEN. Can anyone produce documentation for that? Also William's lineage is given on about 102 trees (some with sources but no documentation), all which state that the gr-gr-grandfather is William HOLMES m. to Catherine HILYARD. However, the only source that I have found so far is the Yorkshire Visitation that states William HOLMES (the gr-gr-grandfather) was married to Ellen HILYARD and who had no son William (gr-grandfather) to my ancestor William who married Elizabeth and settled in MA. Can anyone provide documentation to this lineage if it really exists, thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:34:09 -0000 From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unkno wn/7387.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: This must be the William Holmes who came on the Hercules in 1635 [NEHGR 75:219], settled first at Scituate [PCR 8:182], and removed by 1658 to Marshfield [PCR 8:201]. The maiden name of his wife Elizabeth is not known. Very little is known of her, mainly that she died at Marshfield 17-Feb-1798 at the age of 86 [Marshfield VR 19; MD 5:233]. William's ancestry is not known. Note that Rev. John Holmes. husband of Mary Wood/Atwood, was not a son of William. See the sketch of the family of William Holmes at 3:392-397 in Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration: Immigrants to New England 1634-1635," 7 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999-2011). Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:40:38 -0000 From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unkno wn/7387.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks very much, was afraid that was the case. Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:31:54 -0000 From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Lynde_R Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unkno wn/7387.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Jim, Nothing concrete in this information but might help you in your search or proving your line. Lots of checking for you. Lynde William Holmes Birth: 1600 - England Death: 9 Nov 1678 - Marshfield, Plymouth, Mass (Massachusetts) Parents: Stephen Holmes, Elizabeth Richardson Spouse: Elizabeth Madden The wife of William Holmes a Lt. of John Standish was accused of being a witch by Dinah Sylvester. Was asked what evidence she had, she replied that 'she came to me in the shape of a witch', when further questioned was determined that the shape was that of a bear. To discourage such nonsense, Dinah was fined 5 lbs and whipped. Copies from Gini.com notes regarding John Howland. Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s Name: William Homes Year: 1632 Place: Plymouth, Massachusetts Source Publication Code: 116.1 Primary Immigrant: Homes, William Annotation: Date and place of first residence in New England. Extracted from passenger lists, lists of freemen, colony and court records, notarial records, vital records, land records, church records, and journals and letters. Place of origin, occupation, and other genealogical and historical information may also be provided. Source Bibliography: ANDERSON, ROBERT CHARLES. The Great Migration Begins, Immigrants to New England, 1620-1633. Three Volumes. Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1995. 2386p. Page: 979 ------------------------------------ Parents: Robert Madden m. 1571 - Eliza Maria 1580 - Elizabeth Madden m. William New Holmes 1625 Yorkshire England. Birth 8 Jan 1595 in East Riding, Yorkshire, England Death 17 Feb 1698 in Marshfield, Plymouth, MA Children William Holmes 1592 - 1678 John Holmes 1638 - 1675 Josiah Holmes 1638 - 1679 Abraham Holmes 1640 - 1722 Josiah Holmes 1640 - 1721 Israel Holmes 1642 - 1684 Mary Holmes 1644 - 1705 Sarah Holmes 1646 - 1654 Nobenah HOLMES 1647 - Rebecca HOLMES 1648 - Elizabeth HOLMES 1661 - Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:35:41 -0500 From: Abigail Lumsden <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] HOLMES Family To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It would be lovely if someone knows the parents of Mercy Holmes. She was born at Horseneck, NY, April 7, 1731, and died May 20, 1823, at Rutland, VT. Abigail Lumsden [email protected] On Dec 20, 2011, at 3:34 PM, [email protected] wrote: > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: Dale_H_Cook > Surnames: > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts > .unknown/7387.1.1/mb.ashx > > Message Board Post: > > This must be the William Holmes who came on the Hercules in 1635 [NEHGR 75:219], settled first at Scituate [PCR 8:182], and removed by 1658 to Marshfield [PCR 8:201]. > > The maiden name of his wife Elizabeth is not known. Very little is known of her, mainly that she died at Marshfield 17-Feb-1798 at the age of 86 [Marshfield VR 19; MD 5:233]. William's ancestry is not known. Note that Rev. John Holmes. husband of Mary Wood/Atwood, was not a son of William. See the sketch of the family of William Holmes at 3:392-397 in Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration: Immigrants to New England 1634-1635," 7 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999-2011). > > Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; > Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of > http://plymouthcolony.net > > Important Note: > The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the GENMASSACHUSETTS list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the GENMASSACHUSETTS mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GENMASSACHUSETTS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 303 ************************************************

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: > Nothing concrete in this information but might help you in your > search or proving your line. Lots of checking for you. Lynde - Unfortunately most of what you provided can be disproved, cannot be proved, or pertains to a different William Holmes. Jim asked "Can anyone provide documentation to this lineage if it really exists" and what I quoted was either from cited contemporary records or, in the case of Anderson, is a compiled source citing contemporary records. There is absolutely no provable ancestry for Jim's ancestor William Holmes, and the surname of his wife is unknown. Any web page that claims to provide either cannot cite contemporary records as proof. Note that the William Holmes who is found in "The Great Migration Begins" 2:979-981 was the Lieutenant to Myles Standish, and was a different man than the one Jim was asking about. There are no records of marriage or children for the Lieutenant, and he died in 1649 [Suffolk Co. Probate Records 1:445; his will was also ordered to be recorded at Plymouth, found in Old Colony Wills 2:1:60-63] when William of Scituate and Marshfield (Jim's ancestor) was still having children. Also note that the list of children given for William Holmes incorrectly lists some children who were not his and is missing a son Isaac, named in William's will [Old Colony Wills 4:1:2-3]. There are no birth records for any of William's children, so their birth years are, at best, estimates. All of those children were baptized in Scituate in 1661 [NEHGR 57:178] when most of them were in their teens, and all were named in William's will. The assumed order of birth for the children and their estimated years of birth are based upon William's will and upon information such as their marriage dates Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

There are 2 Sinclair  males born in Cambridge in 1896 in the Mass Vital Records.  One is v-456 p-143 and the other one is v-458 p-145.  can someone look up these and tell me the parents?  I am specifically looking for 'born in Canada' ones. I'm thinking that one of them is the Howard H. Sinclair that I am looking for.  Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Betty Fredericks" <[email protected]> To: "MA List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:19:45 AM Subject: [GENMASSACHUSETTS] SINCLAIR / ZIMMERMAN  couple Hi again,   I'm still looking at www.familysearch.org   and thinking about the 3 sons.      I do find a  Bertrand SINCLAIR in Gardner, MA,  who is something to think about.   Name: Bertrand N Sinclair   Titles & Terms:   Residence: Gardner town (south part), Worcester, Massachusetts   Birth Date: Sep 1877   Birthplace: Massachusetts   Relationship to Head of Household:   Spouse:   Spouse's Titles & Terms:   Spouse's Birthplace:   Father:   Father's Titles & Terms:   Father's Birthplace: Massachusetts   Mother:   Mother's Titles & Terms:   Mother's Birthplace: Massachusetts   Race or Color (expanded): White   Head-of-household Name: George Hubbard   Gender: Male   Marital Status: Single   Years Married:   Estimated Marriage Year:   Mother How Many Children:   Number Living Children:   Immigration Year:   Enumeration District: 1631   Page: 10   Sheet Letter: B   Family Number: 227   Reference Number: 76   Film Number: 1240692   Image Number: 00347     Household Gender Age  George Hubbard  M    Phild A Hubbard  F    George E Hubbard  M    Grace E Hubbard  F      Bertrand N Sinclair  M    Lydia Hubbard  F     That is the 1900 census,  and the 1880 census has him listed as a 2 yr-old in the Merwin SINCLAIR family in Westminster, MA.     That Bertrand died in MA in 1910.      Oh, he married in Providence, RI, in 1909.   With a couple only being married for one year,  you always wonder whether a child resulted from the short marriage.   Betty              (near Lowell, MA)   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks Lynde, If you note Dale's response, no one knows Elizabeth's maiden name. Interesting, my George LILLIE's wife, Jane, was also accused of witchcraft. Thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Lynde_R Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Jim, Nothing concrete in this information but might help you in your search or proving your line. Lots of checking for you. Lynde William Holmes Birth: 1600 - England Death: 9 Nov 1678 - Marshfield, Plymouth, Mass (Massachusetts) Parents: Stephen Holmes, Elizabeth Richardson Spouse: Elizabeth Madden The wife of William Holmes a Lt. of John Standish was accused of being a witch by Dinah Sylvester. Was asked what evidence she had, she replied that 'she came to me in the shape of a witch', when further questioned was determined that the shape was that of a bear. To discourage such nonsense, Dinah was fined 5 lbs and whipped. Copies from Gini.com notes regarding John Howland. Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s Name: William Homes Year: 1632 Place: Plymouth, Massachusetts Source Publication Code: 116.1 Primary Immigrant: Homes, William Annotation: Date and place of first residence in New England. Extracted from passenger lists, lists of freemen, colony and court records, notarial records, vital records, land records, church records, and journals and letters. Place of origin, occupation, and other genealogical and historical information may also be provided. Source Bibliography: ANDERSON, ROBERT CHARLES. The Great Migration Begins, Immigrants to New England, 1620-1633. Three Volumes. Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1995. 2386p. Page: 979 ------------------------------------ Parents: Robert Madden m. 1571 - Eliza Maria 1580 - Elizabeth Madden m. William New Holmes 1625 Yorkshire England. Birth 8 Jan 1595 in East Riding, Yorkshire, England Death 17 Feb 1698 in Marshfield, Plymouth, MA Children William Holmes 1592 - 1678 John Holmes 1638 - 1675 Josiah Holmes 1638 - 1679 Abraham Holmes 1640 - 1722 Josiah Holmes 1640 - 1721 Israel Holmes 1642 - 1684 Mary Holmes 1644 - 1705 Sarah Holmes 1646 - 1654 Nobenah HOLMES 1647 - Rebecca HOLMES 1648 - Elizabeth HOLMES 1661 - Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks very much, was afraid that was the case. Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Dale_H_Cook Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: This must be the William Holmes who came on the Hercules in 1635 [NEHGR 75:219], settled first at Scituate [PCR 8:182], and removed by 1658 to Marshfield [PCR 8:201]. The maiden name of his wife Elizabeth is not known. Very little is known of her, mainly that she died at Marshfield 17-Feb-1798 at the age of 86 [Marshfield VR 19; MD 5:233]. William's ancestry is not known. Note that Rev. John Holmes. husband of Mary Wood/Atwood, was not a son of William. See the sketch of the family of William Holmes at 3:392-397 in Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration: Immigrants to New England 1634-1635," 7 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999-2011). Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sorry, part of my message was cut off- I am searching for the maiden name of Elizabeth, wife of William HOLMES, b. c. 1591/2 in England, who settled in Plymouth Co., MA. There are a number of trees on WorldConnect giving Elizabeth's maiden name as MADDEN. Can anyone produce documentation for that? Also William's lineage is given on about 102 trees (some with sources but no documentation), all which state that the gr-gr-grandfather is William HOLMES m. to Catherine HILYARD. However, the only source that I have found so far is the Yorkshire Visitation that states William HOLMES (the gr-gr-grandfather) was married to Ellen HILYARD and who had no son William (gr-grandfather) to my ancestor William who married Elizabeth and settled in MA. Can anyone provide documentation to this lineage if it really exists, thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jplalone Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387/mb.ashx Message Board Post: lineage is given on about 102 trees (some with sources but no documentation), all which state that the gr-gr-grandfather is William HOLMES m. to Catherine HILYARD. However, the only source that I have found so far is the Yorkshire Visitation that states William HOLMES (the gr-gr-grandfather) was married to Ellen HILYARD and who had no son William (gr-grandfather) to my ancestor William who married Elizabeth and settled in MA. Can anyone provide documentation to this lineage if it really exists, thanks, Jim. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

It would be lovely if someone knows the parents of Mercy Holmes. She was born at Horseneck, NY, April 7, 1731, and died May 20, 1823, at Rutland, VT. Abigail Lumsden [email protected] On Dec 20, 2011, at 3:34 PM, [email protected] wrote: > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: Dale_H_Cook > Surnames: > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.massachusetts.unknown/7387.1.1/mb.ashx > > Message Board Post: > > This must be the William Holmes who came on the Hercules in 1635 [NEHGR 75:219], settled first at Scituate [PCR 8:182], and removed by 1658 to Marshfield [PCR 8:201]. > > The maiden name of his wife Elizabeth is not known. Very little is known of her, mainly that she died at Marshfield 17-Feb-1798 at the age of 86 [Marshfield VR 19; MD 5:233]. William's ancestry is not known. Note that Rev. John Holmes. husband of Mary Wood/Atwood, was not a son of William. See the sketch of the family of William Holmes at 3:392-397 in Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration: Immigrants to New England 1634-1635," 7 Volumes (Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999-2011). > > Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; > Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project > Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net > > Important Note: > The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message