Hi guys, I have McAllister/(O)Kelly marriage in Dublin in 1924 at St Andrews Church, He lived in York Street/Road and she lived in St Anne's Cottages, anyone any idea where that may have been please? Regards Mick McAllister

<The_Chieftain@att.net> wrote in message news:1120194927.581590.176870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > > Tabby wrote: >> >> Have I got this right, that at this time, a Catholic priest could, >> without >> breaking the law, >> marry a Catholic to a Protestant as long as they were first married by a >> Protestant clergyman? >> >> Tabby > > Yes, of course. The point being that the second ceremony (the Catholic > one), would not technically be a marriage, as the participants were > already married! So, no problem with the law against a Catholic priest > marrying a Protestant, > > Regards, > The Chief Thanks Chief. That explains two things.....why two marriages would be repugnant and why some Catholic priests did'nt simply take the pragmatic route. I always wondered why they did'nt rationalise it by "Rendering unto Caesar what is Caesars".Principle v Sophistry ! Tabby

From The Cork Examiner, 2 June 1864 - KINSALE A PORT OF CALL.--KINSALE, TUESDAY EVENING.--Great excitement has been produced her by the intelligence that the company of the Inman line have some intention of making Kinsale a port of call for their steamers, instead of Queenstown ; but, although Kinsale harbour is evidently a statio bene fide carinis, yet this is not among the most probable events of the future, inasmuch as I conceive the company must in that case construct a suitable quay for their own accommodation, as quays are possessed by a few persons, their length in each case corresponding to and co-incident with the breadth of the rere of their premises ; and as to a public quay there is scarcely any.--From a Correspondent of the Irish Times. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Ireland Newspaper Abstracts Acton, Massachusetts | http://www.IrelandOldNews.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

BALLINA CHRONICLE Ballina, Mayo, Ireland Wednesday, March 13, 1850 SLIGO ASSIZES Murder Abraham Lawson, Archibald Lawson, and John Lawson, were indicted that they on the 18th of June in the 12th year of reign of her Majesty the Queen, at Ballymote, feloniously, willfully and of their malice aforethought, did kill and murder one James Callaghan; the said Abraham Lawson having given him upon the left side of the breast, a mortal wound, the said Archibald Lawson and John Lawson having then and there hiding and assisting against the peace and statute. The prisoners who are brothers and occupy a respectable position in life, appeared in front of the dock calm and collected. The manner of each was grave, cool and thoughtful; there was no bravado or daring got up for the occasion, and not a shade of fear could be detected in the countenance or bearing of any of them. When called upon by the clerk of the court to plead to the indictment, each of them replied in a firm voice, "Not Guilty." Mr. French, Q.C., Mr. Close, Q.C., and Mr. Walker, Q.C., appeared for the prosecution. For the prisoners Mr. Keogh and Mr. Blakeney - agent Mr. Pollock. Mr. Close wished to have all the witnesses put out of court, with the exception of magistrates or professorial men- which was acceded to. Michael Shannon swore and examined by Mr. French, Q.C.: - Knew a man named James Callaghan; he is dead; saw him last alive at the fair of Ballymote, in this county, on the 18th of June last; met him at the fair and went with him into Gurneen's public house; deceased went into the yard and witness turned into the kitchen to light his pipe; when witness had lighted his pipe he came into the hall and heard an argument; Lawson and Morrison had hold of the deceased; witness went to separate them and was struck by Lawson; saw Morrison and Lawson strike the deceased; Abraham Lawson them came in and struck witness with a whip when he was endeavouring to make peace; the third man then came in, Archibald Lawson [identifies him] and struck witness and deceased; the Lawsons struck them with sticks and stones; the young fellow in particular, struck witness repeatedly; Callaghan thought to make out of the yard, when Abraham Lawson pulled a knife or a dagger out of his pocket and followed deceased down with it; witness was going to the assistance of the deceased when young Lawson knocked him down; Callaghan then shouted out that he was stuck and murdered; a man named Morrison then called out to the Lawson's come away, that there was one man dead, and there was enough done, for the police were coming; witness did not see any other persons in the yard during the whole time. Cross-examined by Mr. Keogh- Knows where the Lawsons live now; they live about five miles from Ballymote; did not know them before the day Callaghan was killed, neither did the deceased know them; the house they went into on that day was full of people; doesn't know if people go to fairs in this country upon unlawful business; never knew the business of Captain of Ribbonmen; never met a Ribbonman to know him. Mr. Keogh - Now, on your oath, were you ever tried? Witness - I tell you I know nothing at all about it. Mr. Keogh - Are you one? Witness - I don't know. Mr. Keogh - You don't know whether you are a Ribbonman or not? Witness went up to take a glass of ale, but does not know if he was there six or seven minutes or half-an-hour; thinks he was something about half-an-hour; when he went out he saw John Lawson and a chap named Morrison striking at Callaghan; Morrison had nothing in his hand; neither had witness; saw Abraham Lawton pull out a knife or dagger and run after Callaghan and stab him with it; never called it by any other name; knows what a poker is, saw a poker; on his oath, he never swore it was a poker; sore it was a knife or dagger; knew it was because he saw the blade shining in his fist; would swear it was a dagger and not a poker; is certain of that (Here Mr. Keogh read witness's informations, in which it appeared that he swore distinctly that it was a knife or poker, and in which the "shining blade" was not all mentioned.) Mr. Keogh - There is nothing in that information about the "shining blade." The shining blade was get up for this occasion. Witness - There were not many blows struck until Callaghan was struck; witness was struck with a tone about a pound weight; went to Ballymote fair to sell a pig that day; did sell it to his brother, his brother might explain the question of "frying a man." Michael Brennan swore and examined by Mr. Walker, Q.C. - Recollects the June fair of Ballymote; was in the house of a man named James Curneen on that day; on coming out saw a row at the back door; saw Archibald Lawson and the deceased fighting; the deceased had a stick with which he struck Lawson, and kicked him out into the yard; saw the last witness (Shannon) knocked down by John Lawson; Lawson had a knife in his hand, and he gave Callaghan two stabs of it in the side; thinks it was in the left side; Callaghan said, "Oh! I'm stabbed;" he then walked out into the hall and in passing through it he dropped either a stick or a handkerchief; witness could not say which; on Callaghan's stooping to lift it the blood gushed out; witness then said to himself "your done" and immediately ran for Mr. Tighe to annoint him. Cross-examined by Mr. Blackeney - Is a chimney sweep, and used to sweep chimneys for the Rev. Mr. Tighe; saw Mr. Tighe in the town of Sligo on last Monday; can't say what he was talking about, but is quite certain it was not about cleaning the chimneys; is in the habit of going to mass; goes very often, but did not hear of any collection being made to pay witnesses to prosecute the Lawsons; never heard it from any of the boys; swears he does not know what counsel means by the "boys." Michael Kelly, Constable, examined by Mr. Close - Was on duty at Ballymote on that day; in consequence of a statement made to him by Shannon arrested Abraham Lawson; searched him and got a pistol on his person but no knife. Cross-examined by Mr. Keogh - Knows the Rev. Mr. O'Connor; is one of his congregation. John Cummisky examined by Mr. French - Was at the fair that day; did not know Callaghan previously; saw him that day; it was about five o'clock in the evening; saw Abraham Lawson with Callaghan; to the best of his opinion it was with a knife. Cross-examined by Mr. Keogh - Was examined on the inquest; saw Lawson afterwards in Sligo gaol; was brought by Mr. Kelly, police constable, to identify Lawson; had no conversation with Kelly after leaving gaol; but told him he knew the man; does not recollect any conversation only he was told that Mr. Kelly gave orders unless Lawson wore the same clothes he had on the fair day, witness could not identify him; it was after he heard that he identified Lawson. Dr. Lougheed was then called and gave testimony as to the nature of the wounds inflicted upon them; they were of a nature to cause death. Mr. Keogh then rose and addressed the jury at considerable length and with great force, after which he examined Bernard Owen Cogan, Esq., High Sheriff, Rev. Mr. Guinness, and E.J. Cooper, Esq., Markree Castle, who gave the prisoners excellent character. The learned Baron charged the jury, and went through the whole evidence, which he examined very minutely, pointing out the various discrepancies which appeared in it. The jury then retired and after a consultation of about two hours returned into court with a verdict of Not Guilty. Cathy Joynt Labath Ireland Old News http://www.IrelandOldNews.com/

My great great grandmother Elizabeth Weldon emigrated to West Australia in 1852.She was born in Dublin. On her birth certificate she lists her father as William Weldon (occupation painter)Mother is not listed. Elizabeth married James Taylor 1855 in Guildford W Australia, and died 1882. any information on elizabeths family life before emigration would be great. thnx,

Crispy is a troll, but some people do enjoy his antics. When he sticks to genealogy and history - like the rest of us have to do - the list is fine for that. When he is trying to get a rise out of those who don't know him or when he and his fans want to communicate, perhaps they could do so privately while we stick to genealogy on the list??? Too much to ask I guess, huh??? I find him tiresome. I also fear he will alienate people who have a real contribution to make. Surely there is somewhere that Crispy and his fans can romp and play and leave the rest of us to our research??? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat T To: GENIRE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: Riley got riled by Crispin I for one enjoy reading Sir Crispins messages. He is adroit at portraying the titled Englishman of old, and knows something of the history of the "good old days" of the Empire. Patrick Traynor. tray@lanset.com

Tabby wrote: > > Have I got this right, that at this time, a Catholic priest could, without > breaking the law, > marry a Catholic to a Protestant as long as they were first married by a > Protestant clergyman? > > Tabby Yes, of course. The point being that the second ceremony (the Catholic one), would not technically be a marriage, as the participants were already married! So, no problem with the law against a Catholic priest marrying a Protestant, Regards, The Chief

Budgie wrote: > How about the Islamist patriots who dropped in on the twin towers of > New York? Should we support them by contributing to their cause? So what country were they being patriotic on behalf of? -- SIABAIR (Old Irish) /shabba/ 'ghost', 'phantom', 'spectre'

I'm trying to track down one of those probably apocryphal family legends. I've come up dry on Google. Is anybody aware of a Bishop or Archbishop or Cardinal Nugent originally from Dublin in the first half of 10th Century ?

""conaught2"" <conaught2@charter.net> wrote in message news:00ce01c57d76$3b4c0d60$524dbd44@conaught2... > > The many Irish who fought throughout the centuries for Irish freedom and democracy, to overthrow tyranny, are most definitely patriots, no less than George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin and so many others are to Americans. > > Siochain agus Beannachtai (Peace and Blessings) > Margaret (Máiread) Lord, save us from Americans. How about the Islamist patriots who dropped in on the twin towers of New York? Should we support them by contributing to their cause? -- Budgie NB Reply to newsgroup. Email address will get you nowhere.

"Dennis Ahern" <ahern@world.std.com> wrote in message <snip> Those should cover it !! Thanks -- Budgie NB Reply to newsgroup. Email address will get you nowhere

"Edward Doyle" <ejd2@att.net> wrote in message news:42C2D90E.70CAFE68@att.net... > Hownhelcymru@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > On 27/06/2005 5:56 AM, Jim McCormick wrote: > > > I am trying to locate information about my g-uncle who participated in the > > rebellion (1916 - 1921). He was an active member of the IRA and was > > incarcerated by the British forces during that period. < > > > > I found my patriots names [McGinley] in the book "Frongoch, University of > > Revolution" by Sean O Mahony [first published 1987 by FDR Teoranta]. It is a > > very interesting book and it lists those [1,804] who were imprisoned in > > Frongoch. It is taken from the Camp Register maintained by the General Council. It > > is stated that the author would have liked to have had sight of the British > > Register but that he could find no such record in the Public Record Office in > > London [now the National Archives]. I can see no McCormack from Cavan in these > > lists; but there are two who give Dublin addresses > > > > There are also lists of names of those "prisoners deported and released" in > > 1916 in the book "1916 Rebellion Handbook" reprinted in 1998 by the Mourne > > River Press. There are several McCormacks in these lists. > > > > I have assumed that the name you were looking for was McCormick, as I missed > > the original posting. Hope this helps, > > > > Helenor > > > > > > Dear Helenor, > If you have the time/inclination and still have access to the books > you mention, I would be very grateful of you could lookup a great-uncle of mine, who > was deported/interned in 1916. He was Peter Smyth (Smith) of Enniscorthy Co Wexford. We > would love to obtain some details of where/when he was interned, etc. > Best regards, > Edward Doyle > > Dear Helenor, I would also be very grateful if you could loop up my grandfather and his brother who were interned in 1916: Thomas and Patrick Chapman, from Baldwinstown or Busherstown in Co. Wexford. Many thanks, E. O'Leary

> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Budgie" <pju@hotpop.com> > To: <GENIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:02 AM > Subject: Re: Patriots 1916 -1921 > > > > > > Lord, save us from Americans. ----and how fast THAT can change to Lord save us Americans, should the need arise wherever you are!!! > > How about the Islamist patriots who dropped in on the twin towers of New > > York? Should we support them by contributing to their cause? ---stupid, callous statement MDerry ---NOT an American

I for one enjoy reading Sir Crispins messages. He is adroit at portraying the titled Englishman of old, and knows something of the history of the "good old days" of the Empire. Patrick Traynor. tray@lanset.com

From The Limerick Evening Post, 6 November 1817 - MARRIED--At Eyrecourt Church, Walter Lambert, Esq., of Castle Lambert, Co. Galway, to Anne, eldest daughter of Giles Eyre, Esq., of Eyrecourt Castle, an Lieut.-Colonel of the Galway regiment. On this happy occasion the town of Eyrecourt was brilliantly illuminated.--A few days since, Bryan O'Donnell, of Laurenstown, in this County, Esq., to the truly agreeable Miss Bulkley--On Sunday Evening, Mr. John Unthank, of Mungret street, Woollen Draper, to Miss Ryan, daughter of Mr. Thomas Ryan, of this City, Architect. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Ireland Newspaper Abstracts Acton, Massachusetts | http://www.IrelandOldNews.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In case it might help further..... Thoms directory 1897 has an extract page, Valuation Of Property in Ireland as made to the House of Commons 1869 and this says.... Name of Union: Abbeyleix, Year printed 1850, Date issued for Rating Purposes 30th Jan 1852. Brian ""conaught2"" <conaught2@charter.net> wrote in message news:006401c57a50$c15124a0$524dbd44@conaught2... > Dear Ian, > > According to John Grenham's book, Tracing Your Irish Ancestors, the > Griffith's Valuation was taken in County Laois/Leix/ (Queens) between > 1851-1852. > > Beannachtai, > Margaret (Máiread) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ian Loiterton > To: GENIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:22 PM > Subject: Griffiths Valuation for Co. Leix- what years? > > > I am aware that Griffiths Valuation was conducted between 1848 and 1864. > One reference suggested that it was conducted for Co. Leix between 1851 > and 1852 while another said between 1858 and 1860. Can anyone verify > which of these is correct as it makes a significant difference to > identifying two people included in it for the town of Abbeyleix. >

Don Carter is wrong to class the 1916-1921 Nationalists as "terrorists". The Nationalist movement in this period involved the majority of the Irish population, whether they simply voted for Sinn Fein, attended political meetings, served with an IRA brigade, or were part of a unit involved with ambushes and booby trap bombs. Do we really want to class some of our ancestors as "terrorists" and some as "patriots"? Of course there were unjustified atrocities by both sides in Ireland in 1916-1921 - as there also were in France, Belgium etc. in 1914-1918. The majority of users of this group have some ancestors who served in one way or another the Irish Nationalist cause in 1916-1921, and also ancestors who fought in the WWI trenches for Britain.Certainly I have several ancestors on both sides. Genealogy/family history should be about finding out what our ancestors did, not categorising them as heroes or villains. > Call me picky, but I always understood patriots to be people who > loved their country, and worked politically for its betterment. I > believe the term for people who resort to bombing is terrorists. >

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:39:39 +0000 (UTC), Hownhelcymru@aol.com wrote: > > > >On 27/06/2005 5:56 AM, Jim McCormick wrote: >> I am trying to locate information about my g-uncle who participated in the >rebellion (1916 - 1921). He was an active member of the IRA and was >incarcerated by the British forces during that period. < > >I found my patriots names [McGinley] in the book "Frongoch, University of >Revolution" by Sean O Mahony [first published 1987 by FDR Teoranta]. It is a >very interesting book and it lists those [1,804] who were imprisoned in >Frongoch. It is taken from the Camp Register maintained by the General Council. It >is stated that the author would have liked to have had sight of the British >Register but that he could find no such record in the Public Record Office in >London [now the National Archives]. I can see no McCormack from Cavan in these >lists; but there are two who give Dublin addresses > >There are also lists of names of those "prisoners deported and released" in >1916 in the book "1916 Rebellion Handbook" reprinted in 1998 by the Mourne >River Press. There are several McCormacks in these lists. > >I have assumed that the name you were looking for was McCormick, as I missed >the original posting. Hope this helps, > >Helenor > > > Call me picky, but I always understood patriots to be people who loved their country, and worked politically for its betterment. I believe the term for people who resort to bombing is terrorists.

In a message dated 6/30/2005 6:47:55 AM GMT Daylight Time, GENIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Dear Helenor, I would also be very grateful if you could loop up my grandfather and his brother who were interned in 1916: Thomas and Patrick Chapman, from Baldwinstown or Busherstown in Co. Wexford. Many thanks, E. O'Leary Hello E. O'Leary, They are not listed in the Frongoch book; but are listed in 1916 Handbook. "203 to Stafford on 8th May; The following list of 203 prisoners who were removed from Richmond Barracks, Dublin, on the 18th May, 1916 and 'lodged in Stafford Detention Barracks on 9th May 1916, was issued on Sunday, 14th May:......... Chapman, T, Busherstown, Ballynetty, Co. Wexford: Chapman, P, Busherstown, Ballynetty, Co. Wexford: This is on Page 78. The only Chapman I can find under the lists of men released is: Chapman, Thomas, Duncormick and this is under the 2nd June announcement. One of the problems with these lists of men released is that they are alphabetical only as far as the first letter of the surname. I am pretty sure, however, that I have not missed them in these lists. As I understand it from page 67 of the book, they would then have been released at or near Christmas 1916. Best wishes Helenor

Dear Don, I don't know which country you live in, but in the U.S. our Declaration of Independence is the same as the Irish Proclamation made by Padraig Pearse on the steps of the GPO at Easter 1916. Those who fought the British to gain our independence in the U.S. are our patriots. I'm sure if the term "terrorist" was in vogue in the 1770s our patriots would have been labeled "terrorists" by the British government. In 1918 the Irish people overwhelming (over 70 % voted for Sinn Fein candidates) elected an independent parliament - Dail Eireann. These elections gave Dail Eireann the authority to set up a government. All the necessary ministries were set up to run the government, including a court system which during this time period (1919-1921) took the place of the one set up by the English government. Countess Constance Markievicz headed the Arbitration Court System. Included in the ministries was the Prime Minister (President) and the various departments including Department ! of Defense. The defense of the Irish government was the responsibility of the Irish Volunteers which became known as the Irish Republican Army - the army of the Irish Republic. Although Woodrow Wilson espoused "self determination" and the U.S. House of Representatives in a resolution overhwhelming instructed Wilson to recognize Ireland as an independent state, England's control was too powerful and the the leading world powers ignored Ireland's plight. The Irish leaders were constantly being imprisoned. Dublin Castle (the seat of the British government in Ireland) formed the Cairo Gang, an assassination squad to eliminate the Sinn Fein leaders. Michael Collins beat Dublin Castle at its own game and developed an intelligence network that finally surpassed Dublin Castle's spy network. The many Irish who fought throughout the centuries for Irish freedom and democracy, to overthrow tyranny, are most definitely patriots, no less than George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin and so many others are to Americans. Siochain agus Beannachtai (Peace and Blessings) Margaret (Máiread)