Wjhonson, RE: > "It is completely untrue that “improvements” in dna have exonerated anyone What is true is that dna has exonerated people where No DNA was ever taken originally There is NO example is all of Dna history that a positive match was later overturned Not one " Well, I don't have access to Lexis Nexis, so I can't give you a full summary. However... use in criminal cases is not well regulated, and defending yourself in such DNA based cases can be expensive. DNA companies could sell your data to a company that receives a court order for that DNA information. For example (links given below): CODIS markers have convicted the wrong people (see Chen Long-Qi, a bad DNA test derailed his life, below. A different type of case, but at a time when everybody thought DNA was the definitive answer.). "Five years later, Chen was exonerated when a second DNA test that found he was not a match after all. In the years he lived as a convicted rapist, he had lost his wife, his business and most of his life." Gizmodo: "When Bad DNA Tests Lead to False Convictions" https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convictions-1797915655 Another example along the same lines: "In 2014, a New Orleans filmmaker was identified in an Idaho murder based on a DNA sample that his father had given years earlier as part of a church-sponsored genealogy project. The father's DNA was sold to Ancestry(dot)com, and he was identified to police after Ancestry received a court order. The suspect was later cleared after his DNA didn't match evidence at the crime scene. " Not all people are wealthy film makers who can mount an adequate defense. Even for film makers, this probably took months or even years of effort, which could have been better spent on normal life activities. USA Today: "Took an ancestry DNA test? You might be a 'genetic informant' unleashing secrets about your relatives" https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2018/04/27/ancestry-genealogy-dna-test-privacy-golden-state-killer/557263002/ As I understand it, one case obtained discarded samples from the pizza store and got a 'match.' With microscopic DNA, and the thought of 'planting' DNA on another person (by handshake, back of stamps, etc.), I am sure the list can go on and on. Most folks in their seventies have little resources to hire an attorney to defend themselves. Most likely, a court appointed attorney would have little incentive to defend anybody in such a case. And then there's the problem with insurance companies, etc.  - Dave Hamm

The Y test you cited is not good evidence of anythingTHOUSANDS of men have the exact same Y results on 12 and even on 37Using a Y test for a crime scene is just utter stupidity on the part of the police The other example isn't actually an example of anything DNA relatedThe test in question was the father's, the subpoena was merely because he was a *close* matchAnd the *actual* test showed that he was not a match So once again, my claim, that no Autosomal DNA test has *ever* found a positive match, that was later overturned By the way, that you might be *present* at an event where a crime *later* took place is just sloppy police workNot evidence of an overturned DNA test -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hamm via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Cc: Dave Hamm <odoniv@yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2018 10:35 am Subject: [DNA] Re: Use of familial search by law enforcement Wjhonson, RE: > "It is completely untrue that “improvements” in dna have exonerated anyone What is true is that dna has exonerated people where No DNA was ever taken originally There is NO example is all of Dna history that a positive match was later overturned Not one " Well, I don't have access to Lexis Nexis, so I can't give you a full summary. However... use in criminal cases is not well regulated, and defending yourself in such DNA based cases can be expensive. DNA companies could sell your data to a company that receives a court order for that DNA information. For example (links given below): CODIS markers have convicted the wrong people (see Chen Long-Qi, a bad DNA test derailed his life, below. A different type of case, but at a time when everybody thought DNA was the definitive answer.). "Five years later, Chen was exonerated when a second DNA test that found he was not a match after all. In the years he lived as a convicted rapist, he had lost his wife, his business and most of his life." Gizmodo: "When Bad DNA Tests Lead to False Convictions" https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convictions-1797915655 Another example along the same lines: "In 2014, a New Orleans filmmaker was identified in an Idaho murder based on a DNA sample that his father had given years earlier as part of a church-sponsored genealogy project. The father's DNA was sold to Ancestry(dot)com, and he was identified to police after Ancestry received a court order. The suspect was later cleared after his DNA didn't match evidence at the crime scene. " Not all people are wealthy film makers who can mount an adequate defense. Even for film makers, this probably took months or even years of effort, which could have been better spent on normal life activities. USA Today: "Took an ancestry DNA test? You might be a 'genetic informant' unleashing secrets about your relatives" https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2018/04/27/ancestry-genealogy-dna-test-privacy-golden-state-killer/557263002/ As I understand it, one case obtained discarded samples from the pizza store and got a 'match.' With microscopic DNA, and the thought of 'planting' DNA on another person (by handshake, back of stamps, etc.), I am sure the list can go on and on. Most folks in their seventies have little resources to hire an attorney to defend themselves. Most likely, a court appointed attorney would have little incentive to defend anybody in such a case. And then there's the problem with insurance companies, etc.  - Dave Hamm _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

RE:  > "So once again, my claim, that no Autosomal DNA test has *ever* found a positive match, that was later overturned" No, you said DNA, as I had quoted previously. You did not originally say "autosomal" DNA. No matter, though, courts seek conviction on CODIS markers, not exclusively on Y-DNA, mtDNA, or autosomal DNA. One of my examples was regarding poor DNA work with CODIS markers. RE:  > "The Y test you cited is not good evidence of anything THOUSANDS of men have the exact same Y results on 12 and even on 37 Using a Y test for a crime scene is just utter stupidity on the part of the police" Well, that seems like a curious statement to me. In the case regarding the filmmaker, we had other genetic genealogists with the same aura of confidence way back when:    ------- 'Colleen M. Fitzpatrick, a well-known forensic genealogist, said a partial match of 34 of 35 alleles is “very close to a 100 percent” indication that the donor of the semen is an Usry. She suggested the authorities take a closer look at the family lineage. “There’s still a small percent chance that it’s not an Usry due to an adoption or illegitimate” child in the family lineage, she noted.'  --------- "Greg Hampikian, a professor at Boise State University who has worked on the Dodge case, also seemed impressed by the partial match. According to the search warrant application, he told police that Usry’s father “would probably be within three or four generations” of the unidentified suspect."     ------- Jan. 13, 2015 Usry received the email he’d been awaiting. His DNA, Hoffman wrote, did not match the semen from the scene of Dodge’s murder. See The New Orleans Advocate, " New Orleans filmmaker cleared in cold-case murder; false positive highlights limitations of familial DNA searching FALSE POSITIVE":   https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_1b3a3f96-d574-59e0-9c6a-c3c7c0d2f166.html Please educate yourself.  - Dave Hamm RE: On 11/26/2018 1:40 PM, Wjhonson wrote: > The Y test you cited is not good evidence of anything > THOUSANDS of men have the exact same Y results on 12 and even on 37 > Using a Y test for a crime scene is just utter stupidity on the part > of the police > > The other example isn't actually an example of anything DNA related > The test in question was the father's, the subpoena was merely because > he was a *close* match > And the *actual* test showed that he was not a match > > So once again, my claim, that no Autosomal DNA test has *ever* found a > positive match, that was later overturned > > By the way, that you might be *present* at an event where a crime > *later* took place is just sloppy police work > Not evidence of an overturned DNA test > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Hamm via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > Cc: Dave Hamm <odoniv@yahoo.com> > Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2018 10:35 am > Subject: [DNA] Re: Use of familial search by law enforcement > > Wjhonson, > > RE: > > > "It is completely untrue that “improvements” in dna have exonerated > anyone > > What is true is that dna has exonerated people where No DNA was ever > taken originally > > There is NO example is all of Dna history that a positive match was > later overturned > > Not one " > > Well, I don't have access to Lexis Nexis, so I can't give you a full > summary. > > However... use in criminal cases is not well regulated, and defending > yourself in such DNA based cases can be expensive. DNA companies could > sell your data to a company that receives a court order for that DNA > information. > > For example (links given below): > > CODIS markers have convicted the wrong people (see Chen Long-Qi, a bad > DNA test derailed his life, below. A different type of case, but at a > time when everybody thought DNA was the definitive answer.). > > "Five years later, Chen was exonerated when a second DNA test that found > he was not a match after all. In the years he lived as a convicted > rapist, he had lost his wife, his business and most of his life." > > Gizmodo: > > "When Bad DNA Tests Lead to False Convictions" > > https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convictions-1797915655 > > Another example along the same lines: > > "In 2014, a New Orleans filmmaker was identified in an Idaho murder > based on a DNA sample that his father had given years earlier as part of > a church-sponsored genealogy project. The father's DNA was sold to > Ancestry(dot)com, and he was identified to police after Ancestry > received a court order. The suspect was later cleared after his DNA > didn't match evidence at the crime scene. " > > Not all people are wealthy film makers who can mount an adequate > defense. Even for film makers, this probably took months or even years > of effort, which could have been better spent on normal life activities. > > USA Today: > "Took an ancestry DNA test? You might be a 'genetic informant' > unleashing secrets about your relatives" > > https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2018/04/27/ancestry-genealogy-dna-test-privacy-golden-state-killer/557263002/ > > As I understand it, one case obtained discarded samples from the pizza > store and got a 'match.' With microscopic DNA, and the thought of > 'planting' DNA on another person (by handshake, back of stamps, etc.), I > am sure the list can go on and on. > > Most folks in their seventies have little resources to hire an attorney > to defend themselves. Most likely, a court appointed attorney would have > little incentive to defend anybody in such a case. > > And then there's the problem with insurance companies, etc. > >  - Dave Hamm > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community