I like GEDMATCH, but it isn't a substitute for useful matches.  In my experience most matches just aren't useful.  They may masquerade as 2nd to 4th cousins, but they are actually more distant and either don't answer e-mails or don't know anything. I can't believe that my experience in this regard is unusual.   Lindsey ****************************** This is why you need to be using more specific tools like gedmatch

It’s not Lindsey. I have given up trying to contact people on GEDmatch. Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > On 24 Nov 2018, at 00:16, Lindsey Britton via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > I like GEDMATCH, but it isn't a substitute for useful matches. In my experience most matches just aren't useful. They may masquerade as 2nd to 4th cousins, but they are actually more distant and either don't answer e-mails or don't know anything. I can't believe that my experience in this regard is unusual. Lindsey

I no longer ask people who show up as my DNA relatives to join Gedmatch. Almost nobody joins. I do not know the reason. Must be somebody is circulating bad information about Gedmatch. Sam Sloan On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 9:37 AM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: > It’s not Lindsey. I have given up trying to contact people on GEDmatch. > > Andreas > > Andreas West > Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): > http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 > > Author of https://www.yourDNA.family > > Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - > https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > > > On 24 Nov 2018, at 00:16, Lindsey Britton via GENEALOGY-DNA < > genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > I like GEDMATCH, but it isn't a substitute for useful matches. In my > experience most matches just aren't useful. They may masquerade as 2nd to > 4th cousins, but they are actually more distant and either don't answer > e-mails or don't know anything. I can't believe that my experience in this > regard is unusual. Lindsey > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Sam, Those people that you ask don’t understand what they should do with GEDmatch and how this is going to help them in what they want to achieve. Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > On 24 Nov 2018, at 02:46, Sam Sloan <samhsloan@gmail.com> wrote: > > I no longer ask people who show up as my DNA relatives to join Gedmatch. > Almost nobody joins. I do not know the reason. Must be somebody is > circulating bad information about Gedmatch. > Sam Sloan > >> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 9:37 AM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: >> >> It’s not Lindsey. I have given up trying to contact people on GEDmatch. >> >> Andreas >> >> Andreas West >> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): >> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 >> >> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family >> >> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - >> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ >> >>> On 24 Nov 2018, at 00:16, Lindsey Britton via GENEALOGY-DNA < >> genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>> I like GEDMATCH, but it isn't a substitute for useful matches. In my >> experience most matches just aren't useful. They may masquerade as 2nd to >> 4th cousins, but they are actually more distant and either don't answer >> e-mails or don't know anything. I can't believe that my experience in this >> regard is unusual. Lindsey >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >> community >> > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

> > I no longer ask people who show up as my DNA relatives to join Gedmatch. > > Almost nobody joins. I do not know the reason. Must be somebody is > > circulating bad information about Gedmatch. > Those people that you ask don’t understand what they should do with > GEDmatch and how this is going to help them in what they want to achieve. Andreas' point's good. For most folks, it's simple: why bother? "Sounds like quite a bit of work for no obvious benefit." 5% get it. For another 5% of DNA cousins, obviating the "quite a bit of work" objection is easy: "I'll do it for you." For the other 90%, it's still: "Why?" ... which is especially hard to answer if you're on AncestryDNA (whose users need it most, right?), because, having no experience of chromosome browsers, and HIRs, and triangulation, we're just speaking Greek to them. (Apologies to the Greeks on our list.) I haven't found a one-size-fits-all answer. It depends on their age, their interests, their degree of curiosity (or paranoia), their technological competency, etc.

I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Eric S Johnson [mailto:crates@oneotaslopes.org] Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 3:42 PM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [DNA] Re: Linking DNA > > I no longer ask people who show up as my DNA relatives to join Gedmatch. > > Almost nobody joins. I do not know the reason. Must be somebody is > > circulating bad information about Gedmatch. > Those people that you ask don’t understand what they should do with > GEDmatch and how this is going to help them in what they want to achieve. Andreas' point's good. For most folks, it's simple: why bother? "Sounds like quite a bit of work for no obvious benefit." 5% get it. For another 5% of DNA cousins, obviating the "quite a bit of work" objection is easy: "I'll do it for you." For the other 90%, it's still: "Why?" ... which is especially hard to answer if you're on AncestryDNA (whose users need it most, right?), because, having no experience of chromosome browsers, and HIRs, and triangulation, we're just speaking Greek to them. (Apologies to the Greeks on our list.) I haven't found a one-size-fits-all answer. It depends on their age, their interests, their degree of curiosity (or paranoia), their technological competency, etc. _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote below, Joan. While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or more) suspects. Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a DNA match. Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to those who seek them for either: a) their genealogy hobby b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 <http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - <https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/>https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ <https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> > On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. > > Joan

That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: > I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and > asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our > app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the > answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote > below, Joan. > > While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly > prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said > practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or > more) suspects. > > Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are “suspects” > and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, most > media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State Killer” sells more > clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" and it’s questionable > if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found at the crime scene. To > my knowledge, not a single one is currently prosecuted which seems to > indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a DNA match. > > Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to > those who seek them for either: > > a) their genealogy hobby > > b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives > > > Andreas > > Andreas West > Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): > http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < > http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> > > Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> > > Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < > https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> > https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < > https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> > > > On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that > it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. > > > > Joan > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when I was looking up the URL. That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their GEDmatch kits public. https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a summary here: https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does begin. There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial takes place. Ann Turner On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: > That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB > > > https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: > >> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and >> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our >> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the >> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote >> below, Joan. >> >> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly >> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said >> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or >> more) suspects. >> >> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are >> “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. >> Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State >> Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" >> and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found >> at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently >> prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a >> DNA match. >> >> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to >> those who seek them for either: >> >> a) their genealogy hobby >> >> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives >> >> >> Andreas >> >> Andreas West >> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): >> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < >> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> >> >> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> >> >> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < >> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < >> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >> >> > On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >> > >> > I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that >> it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. >> > >> > Joan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >> community >> >

Sorry Ann, I didn’t read the post beyond the first survey which I referred to l. I ignored the more detailed and international survey results, which are indeed very different and the responders are closer to the subgroup they responded in our survey. I guess it’s all down to how you ask the questions and you can get different results. Let’s take an example: a) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime in your immediately and close family? b) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime? I assume (because this could only be tested with randomly showing either one of such type of questions) that the percentage saying “Yes” would be significantly different under the circumstances of anonymity of the internet. Because in public most of us would still say “Yes”, that’s the answer that social pressure urges us to give. Or we don’t answer at all and stay silent. I guess you all get my point. Anyway, the purpose of our app is clearly defined and GEDmatch is working with the law enforcements already, with a large database of 1 million or so. Seems perfectly ok that we do focus to use familial search for our hobby only and to help those who are in search of close family. Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when I > was looking up the URL. > > That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after > the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their GEDmatch > kits public. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ > > Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a > summary here: > > https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html > > I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does begin. > There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense > can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial takes > place. > > Ann Turner > > > > > >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB >> >> >> https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html >> >>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: >>> >>> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and >>> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our >>> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the >>> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote >>> below, Joan. >>> >>> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly >>> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said >>> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or >>> more) suspects. >>> >>> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are >>> “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. >>> Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State >>> Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" >>> and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found >>> at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently >>> prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a >>> DNA match. >>> >>> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to >>> those who seek them for either: >>> >>> a) their genealogy hobby >>> >>> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives >>> >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> Andreas West >>> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): >>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < >>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> >>> >>> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> >>> >>> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>> >>>> On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that >>> it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. >>>> >>>> Joan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>> Unsubscribe >>> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >>> community >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I did not go to this discussion at GGI led by Maurice - as my wife had broken her arm. Much to my great sadness, as I laid out the airfare and hotel expense. I think the point about establishing whether these cases lead to convictions is absolutely key to their credibility and longer-term use. There was one other point in Maurice's analysis which really did alarm me. "I was drawn to the unusual results for Ireland, which I can partially attribute to my own Irish bias as an Irishman. Only 64% of responders were "reasonably comfortable" with the use of their DNA results by law enforcement agencies, and only 4% felt that existing regulations were sufficient. In fact, 64% felt that additional regulation was essential. But why this stark contrast to other countries? I am mindful of the 1200 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland that could potentially be resolved through the use of these Genetic Genealogy techniques. But is that going to open a can of worms? Might old animosities be rekindled? Might it spark a resurgence of the violence? Is it better to let the dead rest?" Maurice has flagged these as questions. I would turn all these rhetorical questions around and say that it will not happen for those precise reasons in Northern Ireland. We have, and going to continue to have, ongoing issues with the DUP in Ireland and Brexit for the short-term foreseeable future. You tend not to be aware of those issues if you live outside of the UK. I would also go along with Maurice's comment at the end: "In short, there is a need to explore the pros and cons of additional regulation, and the pros and cons of no additional regulation ... country by country." If Maurice is seriously proposing to take that on - as an ongoing reporting situation for the foreseeable future - I wish him the very, very best of luck! We have not sampled properly the vast masses of scientifically illiterate members of our communities. We have sampled reasonably intelligent, reasonably scientifically literate folk - and are likely to be the most supportive of the use of DNA in such criminal scenarios. I think all this will run, and run, and run - as the amount of education required to reach an informed opinion is absolutely vast - in practice. We are only scratching the surface of the issues here. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> Sent: 25 November 2018 12:43 To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [DNA] Re: Linking DNA Sorry Ann, I didn’t read the post beyond the first survey which I referred to. I ignored the more detailed and international survey results, which are indeed very different and the responders are closer to the subgroup they responded in our survey. I guess it’s all down to how you ask the questions and you can get different results. Let’s take an example: a) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime in your immediately and close family? b) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime? I assume (because this could only be tested with randomly showing either one of such type of questions) that the percentage saying “Yes” would be significantly different under the circumstances of anonymity of the internet. Because in public most of us would still say “Yes”, that’s the answer that social pressure urges us to give. Or we don’t answer at all and stay silent. I guess you all get my point. Anyway, the purpose of our app is clearly defined and GEDmatch is working with the law enforcements already, with a large database of 1 million or so. Seems perfectly ok that we do focus to use familial search for our hobby only and to help those who are in search of close family. Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when I was looking up the URL. That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their GEDmatch kits public. https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a summary here: https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does begin. There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial takes place. Ann Turner On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote below, Joan. While I want that those who did these rapes & murders to be properly prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or more) suspects. Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a DNA match. Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to those who seek them for either: a) their genealogy hobby b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relative Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5

The Facebook poll was directed to people who already had kits on GEDmatch. I have another metric that might address response bias, since it's based on actions people actually took. I downloaded a snapshot of my match list the day that the use of GEDmatch was revealed and for several months thereafter. About 2% of my matches had dropped out, with about half of those converting the kit to Research only and the other half removing their kits entirely. I do think you're right about the visceral reaction depending on the closeness of the relatives used to generate the investigative leads. So far, it has been in the 2nd to 3rd cousin range, and the matches are most likely not even aware that their kit was used. It would be devastating to learn that a closer relative was involved, but that would be true no matter how the suspect was identified. Ann Turner On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:43 AM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: > Sorry Ann, I didn’t read the post beyond the first survey which I referred > to l. I ignored the more detailed and international survey results, which > are indeed very different and the responders are closer to the subgroup > they responded in our survey. > > I guess it’s all down to how you ask the questions and you can get > different results. > > Let’s take an example: > > a) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to > identify a suspect of a violent crime in your immediately and close family? > > b) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to > identify a suspect of a violent crime? > > I assume (because this could only be tested with randomly showing either > one of such type of questions) that the percentage saying “Yes” would be > significantly different under the circumstances of anonymity of the > internet. > > Because in public most of us would still say “Yes”, that’s the answer that > social pressure urges us to give. Or we don’t answer at all and stay silent. > > I guess you all get my point. > > Anyway, the purpose of our app is clearly defined and GEDmatch is working > with the law enforcements already, with a large database of 1 million or > so. Seems perfectly ok that we do focus to use familial search for our > hobby only and to help those who are in search of close family. > > > Andreas > > Andreas West > Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): > http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 > > Author of https://www.yourDNA.family > > Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - > https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > > > On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when > I > > was looking up the URL. > > > > That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after > > the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their > GEDmatch > > kits public. > > > > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ > > > > Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a > > summary here: > > > > > https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html > > > > I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does > begin. > > There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense > > can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial > takes > > place. > > > > Ann Turner > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB > >> > >> > >> > https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html > >> > >>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: > >>> > >>> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page > and > >>> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to > use our > >>> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the > >>> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you > wrote > >>> below, Joan. > >>> > >>> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly > >>> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said > >>> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 > (or > >>> more) suspects. > >>> > >>> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are > >>> “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. > >>> Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden > State > >>> Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer > case" > >>> and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was > found > >>> at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently > >>> prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as > getting a > >>> DNA match. > >>> > >>> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to > >>> those who seek them for either: > >>> > >>> a) their genealogy hobby > >>> > >>> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close > relatives > >>> > >>> > >>> Andreas > >>> > >>> Andreas West > >>> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): > >>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < > >>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> > >>> > >>> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> > >>> > >>> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < > >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> > >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < > >>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> > >>> > >>>> On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that > >>> it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. > >>>> > >>>> Joan > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > >>> Unsubscribe > >>> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > >>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > >>> community > >>> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

I don't accept that a person can't get a fair trial if their dna is found at a crime scene.  In the US, they can still question every step in the process of collecting, preserving, and matching their dna.  Overwhelming physical evidence against a defendant is simply proof of guilt, not a violation of anyone's rights. Ernie On 11/25/2018 4:43 AM, Andreas West wrote: > Sorry Ann, I didn’t read the post beyond the first survey which I referred to l. I ignored the more detailed and international survey results, which are indeed very different and the responders are closer to the subgroup they responded in our survey. > > I guess it’s all down to how you ask the questions and you can get different results. > > Let’s take an example: > > a) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime in your immediately and close family? > > b) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime? > > I assume (because this could only be tested with randomly showing either one of such type of questions) that the percentage saying “Yes” would be significantly different under the circumstances of anonymity of the internet. > > Because in public most of us would still say “Yes”, that’s the answer that social pressure urges us to give. Or we don’t answer at all and stay silent. > > I guess you all get my point. > > Anyway, the purpose of our app is clearly defined and GEDmatch is working with the law enforcements already, with a large database of 1 million or so. Seems perfectly ok that we do focus to use familial search for our hobby only and to help those who are in search of close family. > > > Andreas > > Andreas West > Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 > > Author of https://www.yourDNA.family > > Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > >> On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when I >> was looking up the URL. >> >> That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after >> the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their GEDmatch >> kits public. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ >> >> Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a >> summary here: >> >> https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html >> >> I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does begin. >> There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense >> can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial takes >> place. >> >> Ann Turner >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB >>> >>> >>> https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: >>>> >>>> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and >>>> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our >>>> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the >>>> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote >>>> below, Joan. >>>> >>>> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly >>>> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said >>>> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or >>>> more) suspects. >>>> >>>> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are >>>> “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. >>>> Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State >>>> Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" >>>> and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found >>>> at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently >>>> prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a >>>> DNA match. >>>> >>>> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to >>>> those who seek them for either: >>>> >>>> a) their genealogy hobby >>>> >>>> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives >>>> >>>> >>>> Andreas >>>> >>>> Andreas West >>>> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): >>>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < >>>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> >>>> >>>> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> >>>> >>>> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>>> >>>>> On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that >>>> it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. >>>>> Joan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>>> Unsubscribe >>>> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >>>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >>>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >>>> community >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

If only it were so that in every court in the US every step is questioned, even if the defendant is of a minority group. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Kapphahn [mailto:bookcollector@volcano.net] Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 12:27 PM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [DNA] Re: Linking DNA I don't accept that a person can't get a fair trial if their dna is found at a crime scene. In the US, they can still question every step in the process of collecting, preserving, and matching their dna. Overwhelming physical evidence against a defendant is simply proof of guilt, not a violation of anyone's rights. Ernie On 11/25/2018 4:43 AM, Andreas West wrote: > Sorry Ann, I didn’t read the post beyond the first survey which I referred to l. I ignored the more detailed and international survey results, which are indeed very different and the responders are closer to the subgroup they responded in our survey. > > I guess it’s all down to how you ask the questions and you can get different results. > > Let’s take an example: > > a) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime in your immediately and close family? > > b) Would you be ok that your DNA results is used by law enforcements to identify a suspect of a violent crime? > > I assume (because this could only be tested with randomly showing either one of such type of questions) that the percentage saying “Yes” would be significantly different under the circumstances of anonymity of the internet. > > Because in public most of us would still say “Yes”, that’s the answer that social pressure urges us to give. Or we don’t answer at all and stay silent. > > I guess you all get my point. > > Anyway, the purpose of our app is clearly defined and GEDmatch is working with the law enforcements already, with a large database of 1 million or so. Seems perfectly ok that we do focus to use familial search for our hobby only and to help those who are in search of close family. > > > Andreas > > Andreas West > Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 > > Author of https://www.yourDNA.family > > Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > >> On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:24, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sorry about the incomplete message, which "my mouse" must have sent when I >> was looking up the URL. >> >> That's an interesting contrast to a poll on Facebook about a month after >> the GSK arrest, where about 90% stated they planned to keep their GEDmatch >> kits public. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/permalink/419979728465733/ >> >> Maurice Gleeson conducted a more detailed poll recently and posted a >> summary here: >> >> https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html >> >> I imagine there will be a lot of media coverage when the trial does begin. >> There is a right to a speedy trial, but both the prosecution and defense >> can request continuances. I think it will be a while before the trial takes >> place. >> >> Ann Turner >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:13 AM Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB >>> >>> >>> https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: >>>> >>>> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and >>>> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our >>>> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the >>>> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote >>>> below, Joan. >>>> >>>> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly >>>> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said >>>> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or >>>> more) suspects. >>>> >>>> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are >>>> “suspects” and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. >>>> Unfortunately, most media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State >>>> Killer” sells more clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" >>>> and it’s questionable if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found >>>> at the crime scene. To my knowledge, not a single one is currently >>>> prosecuted which seems to indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a >>>> DNA match. >>>> >>>> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to >>>> those who seek them for either: >>>> >>>> a) their genealogy hobby >>>> >>>> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives >>>> >>>> >>>> Andreas >>>> >>>> Andreas West >>>> Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): >>>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 < >>>> http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5> >>>> >>>> Author of https://www.yourDNA.family <https://www.yourdna.family/> >>>> >>>> Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - < >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ < >>>> https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/> >>>> >>>>> On Nov25, 2018, at 05:53, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think the reason many people resist copying over to GEDmatch is that >>>> it doesn't have the privacy protection that most of the vendors have. >>>>> Joan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>>> Unsubscribe >>>> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >>>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >>>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >>>> community >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I don’t think so, Ann. My survey was done specifically with those people being so interested in DNA & genealogy, that follow our app’s page. So a very coherent and specific subgroup of the general population of the World! Whereas the survey you refer to was conducted with the following participants: “Participants were aged 18 years or older and were recruited from the general US population.” So we have two quite distinct groups here. Not only is the FB group more international which usually means a higher level of privacy is important to them (especially to Europeans). But it’s also a group of people who has actively submitted their time and DNA results for the purpose of their hobby. That’s there main motivation. Here is the link and 10% of our followers (back then) answered the poll: https://www.facebook.com/360575541023105/posts/442152139532111/ Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ > On 25 Nov 2018, at 20:13, Ann Turner <dnacousins@gmail.com> wrote: > > That's an interesting contrast to results of a poll on FB > > https://dnaandfamilytreeresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/how-do-you-feel-about-your-dna-being.html > >> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andreas West <ahnen@awest.de> wrote: >> >> I did run a survey with the 900 followers of our app’s Facebook page and >> asked them if they want that we explicitly DENY law enforcements to use our >> app by uploading DNA data that was found at a crime scene. 2/3 of the >> answers were “Yes”, 1/3 was a “No”. This seems to support what you wrote >> below, Joan. >> >> While I want that those who did these rape’s & murder’s to be properly >> prosecuted, we will follow the majority vote and not allow the said >> practice that law enforcements have used to identify now more than 14 (or >> more) suspects. >> >> Please do note that despite how most media calls them, they are “suspects” >> and suppose to be innocent until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, most >> media doesn’t use such terms (the term “Golden State Killer” sells more >> clicks than “suspect in the Golden State Killer case" and it’s questionable >> if they ever get a fair trial as their DNA was found at the crime scene. To >> my knowledge, not a single one is currently prosecuted which seems to >> indicated that things aren’t as easy as getting a DNA match. >> >> Our app is for the purpose of finding close relatives and ancestors to >> those who seek them for either: >> >> a) their genealogy hobby >> >> b) to identify their birth parent(s) or birth parents of close relatives >> >> >> Andreas