The case based on database size is fine, from a practical standpoint; but in the absence of any other benefit, the argument basically boils down to: "I am recommending you test at FTDNA because I and most others have been recommending FTDNA previously." Personally, I think it would be stupendous if someone was able to set up an independent matching system (analogous to GEDMATCH) for Y-STRs (and mtDNA for that matter). With such a tool, prospective testers wouldn't have to worry so much about having to pay a significantly higher price in order to get that "ticket" into a large database. Your post also raises the question: how much is that "ticket" worth to a prospective tester? 50% extra cost? 100% higher cost? 200% higher cost? Personally, I think that is a decision that should be made by the prospective tester (or the person paying for the test), based on financial considerations, goals, etc. From my perspective, it is not as simple as "there is only one choice". I'm glad you raised the issue about results living on for posterity, which I also think is an important consideration. But I think testers at all labs, including FTDNA, would be wise to take appropriate safegaurds in this respect. An organization or business will typically only have a finite lifespan, and there are no guarantees that results will be hosted/maintained in perpetuity, FTDNA included. Again, just my two cents. Greg On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Mike W via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recruiting others to test, project and results sharing systems is critical. > This is the essence of genetic genealogy as comparisons between people and > sharing of results are needed. > > If possible, it is good in Y DNA testing to recruit get your most distant > male cousin to test so you can estimate the DNA information for the > family's most distant known ancestor (MDKA). However, it is hard to recruit > people on the other side of your genealogical brickwalls and you may not > want to pay for someone's tests you may not be related too. Ideally, you > want people who are inclined towards DNA testing to find you or for you to > find them through a matching database. > > The importance of a consistent set of test results available in a large > matching database can not be understated. This is FTDNA's most dominant > advantage for Y DNA, the largest accessible database. There hundreds of > thousands of Y DNA records already available in FTDNA's database. These are > records of real people, not just anonymous results. For more details, > please read this web page. > https://www.familytreedna.com/why-ftdna.aspx > > Cost is a factor, but when you get your Y STRs tested with FTDNA you are > also getting a ticket into that large database and project management > system with all of those surname projects. FTDNA allows you to join > projects without cost and there is no annual subscription fee for support > in their database and matching systems as well. > > Genetic test results data without the accompanying web based project and > matching systems is not as useful and may not live on for prosperity. When > you order STR and SNP tests from FTDNA your data is supported by a growing > company with a 15 year, self-sustaining operation. You don't have to send > your DNA sample to multiple labs. You and your recruits' samples all go to > Houston's lab and are stored there subject to published privacy policies. > This is particularly important if you think you only have one shot to get a > DNA sample from a recruit. > > The central lab and DNA storage support is complemented by a full product > line. Besides Y DNA testing up to 111 STRs, there is Y SNP testing and even > Y Next Generation SNP discovery testing (Big Y) along with an array of > autosomal and mitochondrial DNA tests. You have "one stop shopping" for > your DNA sample. > > I'm not known for political correctness and we do not want to scare you off > newbies but it is important that we acknowledge - It is very, very likely > that 37 Y STRs is not enough. I recommend you starting with a minimum of 67 > STRs. Most of the male large haplogroup branches of Europe started their > great expansions during the Bronze Age. That means that it is very hard to > discern who fits where at 37 STRs. 67 may not even be enough. Probably many > of the people posting here, even those who prefer niche vendors, have 67 > and even 111 STRs tested with FTDNA. > > Regards, > Mike W > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greg, I agree with your point that an alternative, company independent and open to all sorts of Y-DNA and mtDNA testing results would be good, if not needed (see the other now closed/destroyed databases at Ancestry). What kind of features would you expect from such a service? Comparing STR results sounds like an easy to feature, I have never looked at my results (not even sure if FTDNA allows for download of the raw Y-DNA data) but the resulting number of STR's must be very small in comparison to SNP's (given the larger effort to get them by hand). What else would you see as absolutely necessary, nice-to-have? That list should include features that might not exist today? I'm thinking about offering this maybe in the future but I haven't spend much time with it (Y-DNA) so I don't know how big of an effort it would be. Andreas > On 7 Dec 2015, at 03:47, G. Magoon via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > The case based on database size is fine, from a practical standpoint; but > in the absence of any other benefit, the argument basically boils down to: "I > am recommending you test at FTDNA because I and most others have been > recommending FTDNA previously." > > Personally, I think it would be stupendous if someone was able to set up an > independent matching system (analogous to GEDMATCH) for Y-STRs (and mtDNA > for that matter). With such a tool, prospective testers wouldn't have to > worry so much about having to pay a significantly higher price in order to > get that "ticket" into a large database. > > Your post also raises the question: how much is that "ticket" worth to a > prospective tester? 50% extra cost? 100% higher cost? 200% higher cost? > Personally, I think that is a decision that should be made by the > prospective tester (or the person paying for the test), based on financial > considerations, goals, etc. From my perspective, it is not as simple as > "there is only one choice". > > I'm glad you raised the issue about results living on for posterity, which > I also think is an important consideration. But I think testers at all > labs, including FTDNA, would be wise to take appropriate safegaurds in this > respect. An organization or business will typically only have a finite > lifespan, and there are no guarantees that results will be > hosted/maintained in perpetuity, FTDNA included. > > Again, just my two cents. > > Greg > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Mike W via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > >> Recruiting others to test, project and results sharing systems is critical. >> This is the essence of genetic genealogy as comparisons between people and >> sharing of results are needed. >> >> If possible, it is good in Y DNA testing to recruit get your most distant >> male cousin to test so you can estimate the DNA information for the >> family's most distant known ancestor (MDKA). However, it is hard to recruit >> people on the other side of your genealogical brickwalls and you may not >> want to pay for someone's tests you may not be related too. Ideally, you >> want people who are inclined towards DNA testing to find you or for you to >> find them through a matching database. >> >> The importance of a consistent set of test results available in a large >> matching database can not be understated. This is FTDNA's most dominant >> advantage for Y DNA, the largest accessible database. There hundreds of >> thousands of Y DNA records already available in FTDNA's database. These are >> records of real people, not just anonymous results. For more details, >> please read this web page. >> https://www.familytreedna.com/why-ftdna.aspx >> >> Cost is a factor, but when you get your Y STRs tested with FTDNA you are >> also getting a ticket into that large database and project management >> system with all of those surname projects. FTDNA allows you to join >> projects without cost and there is no annual subscription fee for support >> in their database and matching systems as well. >> >> Genetic test results data without the accompanying web based project and >> matching systems is not as useful and may not live on for prosperity. When >> you order STR and SNP tests from FTDNA your data is supported by a growing >> company with a 15 year, self-sustaining operation. You don't have to send >> your DNA sample to multiple labs. You and your recruits' samples all go to >> Houston's lab and are stored there subject to published privacy policies. >> This is particularly important if you think you only have one shot to get a >> DNA sample from a recruit. >> >> The central lab and DNA storage support is complemented by a full product >> line. Besides Y DNA testing up to 111 STRs, there is Y SNP testing and even >> Y Next Generation SNP discovery testing (Big Y) along with an array of >> autosomal and mitochondrial DNA tests. You have "one stop shopping" for >> your DNA sample. >> >> I'm not known for political correctness and we do not want to scare you off >> newbies but it is important that we acknowledge - It is very, very likely >> that 37 Y STRs is not enough. I recommend you starting with a minimum of 67 >> STRs. Most of the male large haplogroup branches of Europe started their >> great expansions during the Bronze Age. That means that it is very hard to >> discern who fits where at 37 STRs. 67 may not even be enough. Probably many >> of the people posting here, even those who prefer niche vendors, have 67 >> and even 111 STRs tested with FTDNA. >> >> Regards, >> Mike W >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message