One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters?

I would think that the difference between descendants through Mary would be greater than the differences between descendants of Mary's daughters... one generation's worth. On Nov 19, 2015 4:05 PM, "Wesley Johnston via" <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several > daughters. > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow > and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at > home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about > 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's > parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor > church records. > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would > like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know > who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult > daughters? > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. > Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more > recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his > cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

If Sam's mother was Mary, then Sam's son should have no DNA matches who share ancestors with Joe, whereas if Sam's mother was one of the daughters, you would expect him to have inherited some of Joe's DNA. Are there any cousins available who are descendants of Joe's siblings, assuming he had some? On Nov 19, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Wesley Johnston via wrote: > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brilliant. On Nov 19, 2015 4:39 PM, "Elizabeth Harris via" <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > If Sam's mother was Mary, then Sam's son should have no DNA matches who > share ancestors with Joe, whereas if Sam's mother was one of the daughters, > you would expect him to have inherited some of Joe's DNA. Are there any > cousins available who are descendants of Joe's siblings, assuming he had > some? > > > > On Nov 19, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Wesley Johnston via wrote: > > > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several > daughters. > > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow > and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at > home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about > 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's > parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor > church records. > > > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would > like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to > know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult > daughters? > > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. > Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more > recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches > his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

If Sam was Mary's son, he will be half-sib to Mary's other children. So Sam's son will be half first cousin to Mary's other grandchildren. If Sam was the son of one of Mary's children, Sam's son will be half-sib to the other children of that child. Sam's son will be half first cousin to the children of Mary's other children. So, using FF autosomal results, if Sam's son is related at half first cousin level (6.25% on average or between 3.3% and 8.5%) to one of Mary's grandchildren you won't know which way it might have happened. If he shows up as an apparent half-sib to any of the grandchildren you will know they share the mother, who is Mary's daughter. I think. Belinda -----Original Message----- From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wesley Johnston via Sent: Friday, 20 November 2015 11:04 AM To: Genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DNA] Real Mother - the Mother or adult Daughter? One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message