There must be some explanation somewhere on the FTDNA web site to explain this, but I cannot find it if there is one. The new format of Y-DNA matches includes a new column "Big Y-500 STR Differences" which is thus a genetic distance column. I clearly do not understand how best to interpret and use the Big Y-500 information. Comparing the prior and new genetic distance columns, some things do not make sense, which almost certainly means that my understanding of the Big Y-500 is flawed. 1 - Some Y-111 matches have a genetic distance that that is greater than the Big Y-500 difference. For example, one matching kit has a Y-111 genetic distance of 6, but a Big Y-500 of "1 of 442". And another is Y-111 at 5 and Big Y-500 at "2 of 437". I had thought that the Big Y-500 STRs included those in the Y-111 plus some more. If that were the case, then the Y-111 genetic distance would always be less than or equal to the number of differences in the Big Y-500. But clearly that is not the case. So what is the relationship of the STRs in the Y-111 test to those in the Big Y-500 STR results? 2 - The other thing that sticks out very noticably is that the closeness of matches at Y-111 genetic distance is sometimes the exact opposite of the number of Bug Y-500 differences. For example, three kits match at a Y-111 genetic distance of 3 (call it Kit A), 5 (B) and (6). But in the Big Y-500 STR differences, they are 5 (A), 2 (B) and 1 (C). How should I interpret and use this significant difference in order? And which order is the "real" order"?  

This article by Durand et al and others that reference it maybe of interest: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104314/ On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:47 AM McDonald, J Douglas <jdmcdona@illinois.edu> wrote: > I have a question. Its usually said that a HIR smaller than say 7 cM is > frequently not really from > shared descent. > > I presume this means that just by accident its half identical ... and that > if we actually had truely > phased (from a physical measurement, which I have of myself) data of one > person we could be > surer of a real match with the other person. This is because the "other > person" would have > some markers that are homozygous and don't match the same side as the > supposedly matching > side of me. I'm sorry if this is unclear, but that's the best I can say it. > > If indeed this is the case, then smaller segments should be "real". This > is important since I > don't have parents available to "genealogically" phase me, and have to use > not coly close > cousins but some more distant ones. How small a block should I trust, > given that a different LARGE > block on the other person has a known, triangulated relation to me, has > the same relation to me? > > > Doug McDonald > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

The table from John Walden shows the dropout rate when the other party is also phased: https://isogg.org/wiki/Identical_by_descent#False_positive_matches Ann Turner On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 9:47 AM McDonald, J Douglas <jdmcdona@illinois.edu> wrote: > I have a question. Its usually said that a HIR smaller than say 7 cM is > frequently not really from > shared descent. > > I presume this means that just by accident its half identical ... and that > if we actually had truely > phased (from a physical measurement, which I have of myself) data of one > person we could be > surer of a real match with the other person. This is because the "other > person" would have > some markers that are homozygous and don't match the same side as the > supposedly matching > side of me. I'm sorry if this is unclear, but that's the best I can say it. > > If indeed this is the case, then smaller segments should be "real". This > is important since I > don't have parents available to "genealogically" phase me, and have to use > not coly close > cousins but some more distant ones. How small a block should I trust, > given that a different LARGE > block on the other person has a known, triangulated relation to me, has > the same relation to me? > > > Doug McDonald > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

I have a question. Its usually said that a HIR smaller than say 7 cM is frequently not really from shared descent. I presume this means that just by accident its half identical ... and that if we actually had truely phased (from a physical measurement, which I have of myself) data of one person we could be surer of a real match with the other person. This is because the "other person" would have some markers that are homozygous and don't match the same side as the supposedly matching side of me. I'm sorry if this is unclear, but that's the best I can say it. If indeed this is the case, then smaller segments should be "real". This is important since I don't have parents available to "genealogically" phase me, and have to use not coly close cousins but some more distant ones. How small a block should I trust, given that a different LARGE block on the other person has a known, triangulated relation to me, has the same relation to me? Doug McDonald

Thanks guys, that’s exactly my problem as well. It’s like killing a bad guy with a drone. Too bad we killed a couple of good guys as well because they were in his car at that moment (suggesting they must be bad guys as well or why did they hang out with him) or who were at the gas station working when they dropped the drone. Who cares about one Syrian or Pakistani live as long as we got the terrorist or ISIS member, right? There cannot be any collateral damage in familial search. As Dave pointed out, the film maker’s reputation is harmed forever. One quick search on the internet will bring up old news. It doesn’t matter that later he was cleared. The internet never forgets. He might have trouble financing when banks do checks, or even traveling to another country which does checks on tourists and his name pops up in their database that he was a suspect in a rape case. Or he moves to a neighborhood, some neighbor doesn’t like him and spreads the rumor that he’s a rapist based on internet search. For all those of you that are so Gung Ho of testing “suspects” based on 3rd of 4th cousins triangulation done in GEDmatch (and we all know how quickly there can be an error), just imagine police shows up at your workplace or home and takes you for a DNA test in a rapist or serial murder case. No matter the outcome, your life will never be the same from that moment onwards. Enough said, Andreas Andreas West Meine Vorfahren / my ancestors (8 generations): http://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Basso-23/5 Author of https://www.yourDNA.family Follow us on Facebook for latest updates on our progress - https://www.facebook.com/yourDNAfamily/ On 30 Nov 2018, at 23:59, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >> I am in support of catching the bad guys, but I do have a problem with throwing a good person behind bars and calling them a bad guy. > > - Dave Hamm< > > I couldn't agree more! > > Joan Lince

It can be done. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote: > > That doesn’t make any sense > > The matches have no tree > How do you figure out who their families are without contacting them > > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail > Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com > > On Friday, November 30, 2018, Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> wrote: > > Use a combination of the the matches, regular genealogy, and people Research to figure out who the parent is then contact the parent first. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 30, 2018, at 5:53 PM, Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote: >> >> How do you *go through the parent* of an adopted son? >> You don't know who they are >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> >> To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> >> Cc: Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> >> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 4:58 pm >> Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. >> >> I deeply disagree. >> >> The traditional adoption search community has repeatedly proven that the best practice is to Always go to the parent first for the highest probability of a positive outcome. >> >> Going through someone prevents the parent for being able to handle the situation in their own way. When the parent can’t, there often is anger which lowers the probability of a positive outcome. >> >> There are effective methods of contact that many don’t know. >> >> Best to get help from reputable organizations that have that decades of best practices. It is provided for free. >> >> Concerned United Birth Parents >> American Adoption Congress >> First Mother’s Forum >> >> All the best >> Richard >> DNAAdoption Team >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> > >> > That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> >> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm >> > Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. >> > >> > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to >> > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 >> > and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. >> > >> > >> > >> > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, >> > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com >> > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

That doesn’t make any sense The matches have no treeHow do you figure out who their families are without contacting them  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, November 30, 2018, Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> wrote: Use a combination of the the matches, regular genealogy, and people Research to figure out who the parent is then contact the parent first. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 30, 2018, at 5:53 PM, Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote: How do you *go through the parent* of an adopted son?You don't know who they are -----Original Message----- From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Cc: Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. I deeply disagree. The traditional adoption search community has repeatedly proven that the best practice is to Always go to the parent first for the highest probability of a positive outcome. Going through someone prevents the parent for being able to handle the situation in their own way.  When the parent can’t, there often is anger which lowers the probability of a positive outcome. There are effective methods of contact that many don’t know. Best to get help from reputable organizations that have that decades of best practices. It is provided for free. Concerned United Birth Parents American Adoption Congress First Mother’s Forum All the best Richard DNAAdoption Team Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm > Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 > and 521.  I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Use a combination of the the matches, regular genealogy, and people Research to figure out who the parent is then contact the parent first. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 5:53 PM, Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote: > > How do you *go through the parent* of an adopted son? > You don't know who they are > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > Cc: Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 4:58 pm > Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > I deeply disagree. > > The traditional adoption search community has repeatedly proven that the best practice is to Always go to the parent first for the highest probability of a positive outcome. > > Going through someone prevents the parent for being able to handle the situation in their own way. When the parent can’t, there often is anger which lowers the probability of a positive outcome. > > There are effective methods of contact that many don’t know. > > Best to get help from reputable organizations that have that decades of best practices. It is provided for free. > > Concerned United Birth Parents > American Adoption Congress > First Mother’s Forum > > All the best > Richard > DNAAdoption Team > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> > > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm > > Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to > > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 > > and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, > > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

How do you *go through the parent* of an adopted son?You don't know who they are -----Original Message----- From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Cc: Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. I deeply disagree. The traditional adoption search community has repeatedly proven that the best practice is to Always go to the parent first for the highest probability of a positive outcome. Going through someone prevents the parent for being able to handle the situation in their own way.  When the parent can’t, there often is anger which lowers the probability of a positive outcome. There are effective methods of contact that many don’t know. Best to get help from reputable organizations that have that decades of best practices. It is provided for free. Concerned United Birth Parents American Adoption Congress First Mother’s Forum All the best Richard DNAAdoption Team Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm > Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 > and 521.  I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I deeply disagree. The traditional adoption search community has repeatedly proven that the best practice is to Always go to the parent first for the highest probability of a positive outcome. Going through someone prevents the parent for being able to handle the situation in their own way. When the parent can’t, there often is anger which lowers the probability of a positive outcome. There are effective methods of contact that many don’t know. Best to get help from reputable organizations that have that decades of best practices. It is provided for free. Concerned United Birth Parents American Adoption Congress First Mother’s Forum All the best Richard DNAAdoption Team Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> > To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm > Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 > and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

That level is more likely something like a first cousin once removed, or perhaps the child of a half-siblingYou should contact that person or have your son contact them, and share your story -----Original Message----- From: vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> To: genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 3:18 pm Subject: [DNA] Help for DNA results for my adopted son. My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 and 521.  I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I am not convinced that uploading the results from Ancestry to FTDNA and MyHeritage give you the same quality of information. I prefer to become a big time spender and blow $49 on the real Family Tree DNA test. Sam Sloan On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 3:44 PM vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> wrote: > I have now done that. Many thnaks. > > Mrs Valerie B Garton > Dip FHS and Assoc. Dip L & A H. > Guild of One-Name Studies representative for CULLODEN & HIGGINSON Worldwide > - member no: 4825 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> > Sent: Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:35 AM > To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. > > Valerie > > Please go to www.DNAAdoption.org and join our group for free help and > support. > > Cheers > Richard Weiss > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 30, 2018, at 3:18 PM, vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> wrote: > > > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded > > to FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close > > matches eg 607 and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from > now. > > > > > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - > > A086848, T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe > > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > > RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is > funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

I have now done that. Many thnaks. Mrs Valerie B Garton Dip FHS and Assoc. Dip L & A H. Guild of One-Name Studies representative for CULLODEN & HIGGINSON Worldwide - member no: 4825 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Weiss <1navy.gator@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, 1 December 2018 10:35 AM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [DNA] Re: Help for DNA results for my adopted son. Valerie Please go to www.DNAAdoption.org and join our group for free help and support. Cheers Richard Weiss Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 3:18 PM, vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> wrote: > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded > to FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close > matches eg 607 and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - > A086848, T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Valerie Please go to www.DNAAdoption.org and join our group for free help and support. Cheers Richard Weiss Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2018, at 3:18 PM, vbgarton <vbgarton2@bigpond.com> wrote: > > My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to > FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 > and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. > > > > Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, > T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

My adopted son has done a DNA test with Ancestry which I have uploaded to FTDNA, MyHeritage and gedmatch. There are several very close matches eg 607 and 521. I am wondering how to handle this situation from now. Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney. DNA - A086848, T756083, H947365, MyHeritage & gedmatch

Right. They did not have autosomal DNA or Gedmatch back in 1990. They had very primitive DNA testing back then by today's standards.. Also, the prosecutors statement about 10% DNA was ridiculous. Still the man was convicted and is in jail. You can look him up. On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 9:13 AM Wjhonson <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote: > But again I’m speaking of autosomal dna and gedmatch > > This case is neither > > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail > Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com > > On Friday, November 30, 2018, Sam Sloan <samhsloan@gmail.com> wrote: > > I knew of an especially bad case of wrongful conviction due to DNA > evidence. He was named Willie Moore. He was serving a life sentence for > murder in Powhatan State Farm Prison in Virginia. This happened in 1990 in > Petersburg Virginia. The prosecuting Commonwealth Attorney was Casandra > Byrnes. The murder victim was an elderly man who dealt in counterfeit > cigarettes. Counterfeit cigarettes may be cigarettes in which the Virginia > State Tobacco tax has not been paid. I believe the murder victim was going > to North Carolina where the tax was less. He stayed up all night selling > cigarettes and slept all day. The evidence produced in court showed that > the saliva on one of the cigarettes found at the crime scene showed that it > had DNA characteristics of less than 10% of the Black population. There was > no doubt that Willie Moore had visited the crime victim in the night of the > murder but he was just one of the many customers. Willie Moore was an > absolute schizophrenic who used to yell and scream all day and all night > long in his prison cell and he probably did yell “Yess I killt the mother” > or words to that effect. I filed a habeas corpus petition for him but I > knew he had no chance because those petitions are never granted in > Virginia. He is probably still in prison 28 years later. > > Sam Sloan > >

But again I’m speaking of autosomal dna and gedmatch  This case is neither  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, November 30, 2018, Sam Sloan <samhsloan@gmail.com> wrote: Iknew of an especially bad case of wrongful conviction due to DNAevidence. He was named Willie Moore. He was serving a life sentencefor murder in Powhatan State Farm Prison in Virginia. This happenedin 1990 in Petersburg Virginia. The prosecuting Commonwealth Attorneywas Casandra Byrnes. The murder victim was an elderly man who dealtin counterfeit cigarettes. Counterfeit cigarettes may be cigarettesin which the Virginia State Tobacco tax has not been paid. I believethe murder victim was going to North Carolina where the tax was less.He stayed up all night selling cigarettes and slept all day. Theevidence produced in court showed that the saliva on one of thecigarettes found at the crime scene showed that it had DNAcharacteristics of less than 10% of the Black population. There was no doubtthat Willie Moore had visited the crime victim in the night of themurder but he was just one of the many customers. Willie Moore was anabsolute schizophrenic who used to yell and scream all day and allnight long in his prison cell and he probably did yell “Yess Ikillt the mother” or words to that effect. I filed a habeas corpuspetition for him but I knew he had no chance because those petitionsare never granted in Virginia. He is probably still in prison 28years later. SamSloan

I knew of an especially bad case of wrongful conviction due to DNA evidence. He was named Willie Moore. He was serving a life sentence for murder in Powhatan State Farm Prison in Virginia. This happened in 1990 in Petersburg Virginia. The prosecuting Commonwealth Attorney was Casandra Byrnes. The murder victim was an elderly man who dealt in counterfeit cigarettes. Counterfeit cigarettes may be cigarettes in which the Virginia State Tobacco tax has not been paid. I believe the murder victim was going to North Carolina where the tax was less. He stayed up all night selling cigarettes and slept all day. The evidence produced in court showed that the saliva on one of the cigarettes found at the crime scene showed that it had DNA characteristics of less than 10% of the Black population. There was no doubt that Willie Moore had visited the crime victim in the night of the murder but he was just one of the many customers. Willie Moore was an absolute schizophrenic who used to yell and scream all day and all night long in his prison cell and he probably did yell “Yess I killt the mother” or words to that effect. I filed a habeas corpus petition for him but I knew he had no chance because those petitions are never granted in Virginia. He is probably still in prison 28 years later. Sam Sloan

However there is no way to do this with gedmatch  Just more fake news  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, November 30, 2018, Joan Lince <joanklince@earthlink.net> wrote: >I am in support of catching the bad guys, but I do have a problem with throwing a good person behind bars and calling them a bad guy. - Dave Hamm< I couldn't agree more! Joan Lince -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hamm via GENEALOGY-DNA [mailto:genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 10:20 AM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Cc: Dave Hamm Subject: [DNA] Re: Use of familial search by law enforcement Wjhonson, Well, this thread had been talking about a number of issues, one of which included lab "mixups." (Such as the lab mixups in New York, one of the more recent issues that had been mentioned.) Another issue was poor quality samples at the scene of the crime. For Chen Long-Qi, the DNA samples at the scene of the crime were mixed, and Y-DNA was used. He was convicted, and 5 years later, he took another test with more markers that exonerated him. We had also mentioned the filmmaker. If you just happen to be innocent, few people are the same after event like this. I think the main issue here was the use of public databases, such as GEDMatch. So, you see, if you had tested all of your relatives, and posted to GEDMatch, then you have already given the sample to law enforcement. (Because GEDMatch has seemed to escape our Constitutional rights.) Which means, your family will be the first that law enforcement looks at, simply because it is already there, and easy to access. (A bias toward selecting your relatives.) In the case of the Golden State Killer, my understanding is that the last archive sample of the crime scene DNA was fully sequenced, then converted to a format (such as Ancestry) suitable to upload to GEDMatch. Then using GEDMatch to find a match on the autosomal DNA. Then, collecting discarded objects from the suspect(s) in order to determine if there would be a CODIS match, etc. When law enforcement found something that could be a match, they then issued a warrant, a process that Doug had mentioned. A long chain of events and a lot of detective work. In this example, a lab mixup is not the issue. I was just trying to point out that there are a lot of issues with using what is considered to be a public database, such as GEDMatch. (I think only a couple of States have laws against that.) For example, the Golden State Killer went back to the 4th cousin level, if memory serves me. For me, only half of the 4th and 5th cousins (known in my Y-DNA group) show up as a match from most vendors. If the vendors are not picking up all of your 4th cousins, then how does law enforcement know that they have the correct 4th cousin? Another issue (as I see it) is that we really have no evidence on how many 4th cousins may match on a CODIS test. Most people think DNA evidence is very good to use, but as we have seen with the Y-DNA, there are strange things going on, (such as parallel mutations) that we do not fully understand (when it comes to identification). A third issue would be that a jury would consider the DNA to be the ultimate measure of guilt, and tend to disregard whether or not the DNA would match anybody else. So much so that any other evidence from the defense would tend to be ignored, not only be the jury, but also by the public. I am in support of catching the bad guys, but I do have a problem with throwing a good person behind bars and calling them a bad guy. - Dave Hamm RE: On 11/29/2018 3:46 PM, Wjhonson  wrote: >  You're doubling back to something which makes no sense.Originally you claimed that DNA can be used to prove guilt and then reversed when the science improves.So the case we are talking about is *exactly* that case where DNA is *already being used* > In that case you know who the suspect is, you have their DNA.To *prove* that the DNA test was the result of a lab mixup, you then test their sibling, parent, etc. > That is the case of which we are speaking.  Not any other. >  >  > -----Original Message----- > From: McDonald, J Douglas <jdmcdona@illinois.edu> > > That's absurd. We're talking samples which are unknown ... you know, the unknown rapist. > > There's no problem with the suspect's DNA once a search warrant for it is issued. > > Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > > This objection is easily overcome > Not only do you test the subject, you also test their parent, sibling, nephew, etc to prove that the original kit was not contaminated. >  >  > al RootsWeb community -- _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

It is notwithstanding all of the below still impossible to have a positive match at gedmatch without being the person being looked for  Not possible You can be a close match and I am all in favor of convicting any murderers in my family  I guess you’re not So scaremongering is the motive of the day  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com On Friday, November 30, 2018, Dave Hamm via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: Wjhonson, Well, this thread had been talking about a number of issues, one of which included lab "mixups." (Such as the lab mixups in New York, one of the more recent issues that had been mentioned.) Another issue was poor quality samples at the scene of the crime. For Chen Long-Qi, the DNA samples at the scene of the crime were mixed, and Y-DNA was used. He was convicted, and 5 years later, he took another test with more markers that exonerated him. We had also mentioned the filmmaker. If you just happen to be innocent, few people are the same after event like this. I think the main issue here was the use of public databases, such as GEDMatch. So, you see, if you had tested all of your relatives, and posted to GEDMatch, then you have already given the sample to law enforcement. (Because GEDMatch has seemed to escape our Constitutional rights.) Which means, your family will be the first that law enforcement looks at, simply because it is already there, and easy to access. (A bias toward selecting your relatives.) In the case of the Golden State Killer, my understanding is that the last archive sample of the crime scene DNA was fully sequenced, then converted to a format (such as Ancestry) suitable to upload to GEDMatch. Then using GEDMatch to find a match on the autosomal DNA. Then, collecting discarded objects from the suspect(s) in order to determine if there would be a CODIS match, etc. When law enforcement found something that could be a match, they then issued a warrant, a process that Doug had mentioned. A long chain of events and a lot of detective work. In this example, a lab mixup is not the issue. I was just trying to point out that there are a lot of issues with using what is considered to be a public database, such as GEDMatch. (I think only a couple of States have laws against that.) For example, the Golden State Killer went back to the 4th cousin level, if memory serves me. For me, only half of the 4th and 5th cousins (known in my Y-DNA group) show up as a match from most vendors. If the vendors are not picking up all of your 4th cousins, then how does law enforcement know that they have the correct 4th cousin? Another issue (as I see it) is that we really have no evidence on how many 4th cousins may match on a CODIS test. Most people think DNA evidence is very good to use, but as we have seen with the Y-DNA, there are strange things going on, (such as parallel mutations) that we do not fully understand (when it comes to identification). A third issue would be that a jury would consider the DNA to be the ultimate measure of guilt, and tend to disregard whether or not the DNA would match anybody else. So much so that any other evidence from the defense would tend to be ignored, not only be the jury, but also by the public. I am in support of catching the bad guys, but I do have a problem with throwing a good person behind bars and calling them a bad guy. - Dave Hamm RE: On 11/29/2018 3:46 PM, Wjhonson  wrote: >  You're doubling back to something which makes no sense.Originally you claimed that DNA can be used to prove guilt and then reversed when the science improves.So the case we are talking about is *exactly* that case where DNA is *already being used* > In that case you know who the suspect is, you have their DNA.To *prove* that the DNA test was the result of a lab mixup, you then test their sibling, parent, etc. > That is the case of which we are speaking.  Not any other. >  >  > -----Original Message----- > From: McDonald, J Douglas <jdmcdona@illinois.edu> > > That's absurd. We're talking samples which are unknown ... you know, the unknown rapist. > > There's no problem with the suspect's DNA once a search warrant for it is issued. > > Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: Wjhonson via GENEALOGY-DNA <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> > > This objection is easily overcome > Not only do you test the subject, you also test their parent, sibling, nephew, etc to prove that the original kit was not contaminated. >  >  > al RootsWeb community -- _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community