There's also the Who Do You Think You Are symposiums. ISOGG usually has a table there, and you can tell them you'll sponsor a test for a particular surname. To do that, you'll need to post on ISOGG your surname search, and whether you're willing to sponsor surname tests. Posting on ISOGG is a good plan, anyway.

Thanks very much for your responses on this. This has allowed me to see two different ways forward on this. 1 - Elizabeth and Tim's method - Find descendants of Mary's husband Joe's siblings who are willing to test and see if they match Sam's son. If they do, the Sam's mother is one of the daughters of Joe and Mary. If they do not match, then it is evidence for Mary being Sam's mother (although we would really need to test several people and have them all not match in order to be sure it was not some fluke of atDNA inheritance). 2 - Belinda's method - See what the existing cousins' level of relationship is to Sam's son in terms of shared DNA, maybe identifying and testing a few other relatives who could shed more light on this. I am going to try method 2 first, since we have 7 relatives on Sam's mother's side who have already tested. So we might have enough to make a preliminary determination that way. But I ultimately see that method 1 is something we have to eventually do.     Wesley

One thing I've discovered recently is that many people who don't live/breathe genealogy & DNA think they'll have to give a blood sample! What we take for granted as "common knowledge" is not, and that little misunderstanding might count for some reservation. You can buy a 12 marker test, with minimal investment, to send to them with instructions...and a big Thank You. I've learned to do that anyway, after wasting a few 37 marker tests on men who -- for whatever reason -- were not in the same direct line as we both thought. Sounds like an excellent "case study" for yDNA, especially with documentation going pretty far back. On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 1:12 AM, Wesley Johnston via < genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I have been following this very relevant thread, since I have a very > frustrating -- and thus far unsuccessful -- experience in this. > One of our family lines split in Cornwall, probably in the 1500's -- where > the parish registers do not go back that far. Or at least that is what we > think. The St. Agnes branch probably originated in the Padstow/St. Merryn > branch, with this one member moving from Padstow to St. Agnes, which is > just down the north coast of Cornwall from Padstow. > I have met a cousin from each branch, direct-line male descendants. In > fact, we were all together in the home of the one in St. Agnes parish. So I > know these cousins, and they know each other. And we all have a significant > interest in our ancestry. > And I have told them (via e-mail after returning home -- how I wish I had > thought of it when we were all there together) that if they would each do > the y-DNA test, then we could at least confirm with DNA what we all believe > to be true but for which we will probably never find documentation. > And I even told them that I would be willing to pay for both of their > y-111 tests on FTDNA. > That was several months ago, and neither of them has responded to my > e-mail on this, although one of them has responded on other topics since > then. > It really is frustrating, since it seems such an obvious solution to > confirming what we all believe but cannot prove. I don't know what more I > can do to accomplish this. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello everyone- I can desperately use some help. 1. Where should someone match on the ISOGG chart if they share 40.3 on X and 92.5 auto? 2. Is there a list similar to the ISOGG relationship-DNA cM chart, but that includes half siblings higher up? Does it matter past 3 gens up? Is there any way to estimate, or is it just too far off exponentially? The scenario: I have three matches. Underlined are the matches to the DNA donor who does not know paternity. (Maternal side known & excluded). GH has 15 kids, 12 with MJ, 3 with MB. Endogamy is happening amongst these lines. DNA submitter b 1965 same era as WD and MJ. TB born 1924. How does one get that much X, but so little cM? MJ wife 1----------GH------------MB wife 2 EH CH FH HC GJ TB* VF GJ 92.5 & X 40.3 WD* MJ* 57.6 44.6 TB matches 92.5cM (35.6 largest segment) Also 40.3 X match. WD matches 57.6 cM (28.5) no X MJ matches 44.6 cM (22.9) no X WD matches TB 64cM (26.3) MJ matches TB 75.7 (32.5) WD and MJ do NOT match each other I would be grateful for any insight. I have looked at these folks too long and aside from documenting descendancy from everyone, I have no other tactic for exclusion or directing my focus, and I feel I am missing something significant in these numbers. Many of these descendants had 10+ kids. I am beyond overwhelmed. GH, MJ, and MB were are immigrant pioneers, with many parents and siblings coming to the same area. Results/matches from gedmatch, 23andme, and familytreedna. Ancestry still processing. I also have two other matches with a different MRCA pair that lives about 30 miles away in the pioneer time frame. Unfortunately some families had 20+ kids. DNA donor kit F427838. Thank you in advance to anyone reviewing or responding. I am certainly appreciative of any help and ideas. I am feeling pretty dumb right now. Regards, Patti Easton

Wesley, one point that I love to make to potential participants is that we are only looking at the Y chromosome- that is, only one out of 46! Hopefully, that will help to allay any privacy concerns... And yes it does seem like a good idea to attend family functions armed with a few tests! Best of luck...

Does anyone know what the fate of Family Traits app is on the new 23?  I ask since it's the only place where it was easy to visualize where siblings had 100% IBD.  I say easy. That's despite the fact that it ran really cr__py even when you had the latest OS and now it ran hardly at all.  For those who haven't noticed, 100% IBD segments are non-corroborative for siblings since the sibs are virtual identical twins at that 1/4th of their genome. And does anyone know if they're going to have more apps that round down to closer than just the millions of base pair sites where a segment starts or ends.  (If anyone has found the 2 places where that was true, don't let 23 know lest they screw that up too.) John L

If Sam was Mary's son, he will be half-sib to Mary's other children. So Sam's son will be half first cousin to Mary's other grandchildren. If Sam was the son of one of Mary's children, Sam's son will be half-sib to the other children of that child. Sam's son will be half first cousin to the children of Mary's other children. So, using FF autosomal results, if Sam's son is related at half first cousin level (6.25% on average or between 3.3% and 8.5%) to one of Mary's grandchildren you won't know which way it might have happened. If he shows up as an apparent half-sib to any of the grandchildren you will know they share the mother, who is Mary's daughter. I think. Belinda -----Original Message----- From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wesley Johnston via Sent: Friday, 20 November 2015 11:04 AM To: Genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DNA] Real Mother - the Mother or adult Daughter? One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, the amount of atDNA shared with closed relatives of the mum and daughters should give the answer. Andreas > On Nov 20, 2015, at 08:04, Wesley Johnston via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well the way to target those people would be to suggest (however wrong it might be) that their results could help determine from what English village their line came. "Then you could visit that village on your next trip and they will give you a parade!" -----Original Message----- From: Mary E Hall via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> To: Janis L Gilmore <janis.gilmore@gmail.com>; genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 20, 2015 5:17 am Subject: Re: [DNA] yDNA Recruiting Tips Thanks for some feedback. As mentioned in the original post, >>> Of course, I'll try via Ancestry and Family Tree DNA to try to find >>> candidates we don't have to "beg to spit" (nod to Blaine Bettinger) but >>> would like to find a good representation of descendant lines. I can do the research to find living descendants of the lines I'm interested in, but am curious if anyone has recent experience -- now that DNA testing is perhaps a bit more mainstream -- in requesting a DNA sample from people who may not have the slightest interest in genealogy or family history, as they have lived in the same communities for generations. Those are the surname candidates whose yDNA it would be good to get, I think. It's probably not coincidental that all 5 in this particular surname group (Barnes) reside far outside the New England communities where the original immigrant lived (Brookfield, Worcester, MA; Marlborough, Middlesex, MA). I've also been very interested in trying to obtain some targeted yDNA from across the pond in Lancashire, ENG for another surname, Sherburne. Not a common surname but one with a long recorded history. Thank you for the ideas. Mary ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here is the address of the PGP Blog: http://blog.personalgenomes.org/ -- Steven C. Perkins SCPerkins@gmail.com http://stevencperkins.com/ Indigenous Peoples' Rights http://intelligent-internet.info/law/ipr2.html Indigenous & Ethnic Minority Legal News http://iemlnews.blogspot.com/ Online Journal of Genetics and Genealogy http://jgg-online.blogspot.com/ S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Page http://stevencperkins.com/genealogy.html S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Blog http://scpgen.blogspot.com/

>From the PGP newsletter: *Ever wanted a public genotype + phenotype dataset? The Harvard PGP has you covered!* We have phenotype surveys galore <https://my.pgp-hms.org/google_surveys> (including a recently released one that includes blood type and eye color), with responses available in CSV form. The questions on the survey forms are available on github for now <https://github.com/PGPHarvard/pgp-surveys>. I hope you all enjoy! Untap is on github <https://github.com/abeconnelly/untap> *https://github.com/abeconnelly/untap <https://github.com/abeconnelly/untap>* and Abram welcomes feature requests / issue reporting. We hope this is beneficial to the GA4GH working groups <http://ga4gh.org/> specifically and other researchers in general. -- Steven C. Perkins SCPerkins@gmail.com http://stevencperkins.com/ Indigenous Peoples' Rights http://intelligent-internet.info/law/ipr2.html Indigenous & Ethnic Minority Legal News http://iemlnews.blogspot.com/ Online Journal of Genetics and Genealogy http://jgg-online.blogspot.com/ S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Page http://stevencperkins.com/genealogy.html S.C. Perkins' Genealogy Blog http://scpgen.blogspot.com/

Thanks for some feedback. As mentioned in the original post, >>> Of course, I'll try via Ancestry and Family Tree DNA to try to find >>> candidates we don't have to "beg to spit" (nod to Blaine Bettinger) but >>> would like to find a good representation of descendant lines. I can do the research to find living descendants of the lines I'm interested in, but am curious if anyone has recent experience -- now that DNA testing is perhaps a bit more mainstream -- in requesting a DNA sample from people who may not have the slightest interest in genealogy or family history, as they have lived in the same communities for generations. Those are the surname candidates whose yDNA it would be good to get, I think. It's probably not coincidental that all 5 in this particular surname group (Barnes) reside far outside the New England communities where the original immigrant lived (Brookfield, Worcester, MA; Marlborough, Middlesex, MA). I've also been very interested in trying to obtain some targeted yDNA from across the pond in Lancashire, ENG for another surname, Sherburne. Not a common surname but one with a long recorded history. Thank you for the ideas. Mary

DNA tests are on sale at some of the testing companies.allen

One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters?

You mean 1/2 a generation since the daughter would be different but not the cousin. Stephanie R wrote Subject: Re: [DNA] Real Mother - the Mother or adult Daughter? To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <CAFN4c_g1NOUJvW=vKaodbTbYzBWsh_--9tWJmjz9ipgVwRN5ZA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I would think that the difference between descendants through Mary would be greater than the differences between descendants of Mary's daughters... one generation's worth. On Nov 19, 2015 4:05 PM, "Wesley Johnston via" <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several > daughters. > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow > and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at > home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about > 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's > parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor > church records. > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would > like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know > who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult > daughters? > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. > Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more > recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder).

If Sam's mother was Mary, then Sam's son should have no DNA matches who share ancestors with Joe, whereas if Sam's mother was one of the daughters, you would expect him to have inherited some of Joe's DNA. Are there any cousins available who are descendants of Joe's siblings, assuming he had some? On Nov 19, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Wesley Johnston via wrote: > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What you want to find is matches between Sam and another tester who *do not* match any other of his cousins -----Original Message----- From: Wesley Johnston via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> To: Genealogy-dna <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2015 4:05 pm Subject: [DNA] Real Mother - the Mother or adult Daughter? One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not sure I understand, Stephanie. I just contact the person posting a tree that includes my person of interest—so a living person. But I don’t try to find them outside of the Ancestry messaging. I do occasionally, however, use Veromi or other services when I have built a tree that leads down to an obit recent enough that the individual can be searched in current records. And stop doing anything while you’re driving. : - ) Janis On Nov 19, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Stephanie Ray via <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Sorry, Janis, I meant this question for you! Shouldn't be doing this stuff > while I drive! > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Stephanie Ray <stephanieray52@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Maranne, what time frame are you talking about? Post-1940, >> peoplefinders.com can help, as it groups together people living at the >> same address (you can guess at the family relationships by their ages). >> >> Also, Facebook sometimes shows family and friends... >> On Nov 19, 2015 2:24 PM, "Janis L Gilmore" <janis.gilmore@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I have had success in recruiting DNA candidates through *Ancestry*, by >>> culling the tree pages for entries for the ancestor in question. I then >>> send the owner of each pertinent tree an *Ancestry* message explaining >>> my objective and asking if they are descendants. Many don’t reply. Many >>> have the individual in their tree only as a collateral, with no blood >>> relationship—but the balance of them are usually interested in testing. >>> >>> Particularly when/if I offer to pay for it. The latter is, of course, >>> more doable with atDNA (my project) than with the more expensive Y-DNA. But >>> when you really need that data, it’s worth it. >>> >>> Mysteriously, one of the lines for which I need more tests is one of the >>> most prolific couples. Surely, out of 14 children, more than 2 descendants >>> can be located on Ancestry or somewhere. The only two I’ve found had >>> already been tested, which was nice. But where are the rest of them? :-| >>> >>> Janis Walker Gilmore >>> Pawleys Island, SC, & Seattle, WA >>> >>> >>> On Nov 19, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Stephanie Ray via < >>> genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>> Good stuff, Marianne- thanks! >>> On Nov 19, 2015 9:18 AM, "Marianne Granoff via" < >>> genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I would also recommend looking on Facebook and even using Google for >>> people with your surname. I have been successful in finding people >>> with the surname I was researching and then sending them a short >>> message about why I am looking for people with that surname to be DNA >>> tested. You can offer to pay for part of a test as an >>> incentive. Keep a list of those you have contacted. Sometimes they >>> will get back to you months later. >>> >>> I have also kept up correspondence with some of the people I have >>> found, and sent them email or messages when someone new joined the >>> surname group or was tested. In one case, it took over five years >>> for the person to be tested, but that was the person who broke >>> through my roadblock because he was a perfect match to my second >>> cousin (my closest male relative with that surname), and he had a lot >>> of information about his family history. >>> >>> It only takes one person if it is the right person :-) >>> >>> Marianne Manley Granoff >>> Albuquerque, NM >>> >>> At 06:46 AM 11/18/2015 -0800, you wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone have any recent successes in recruiting candidates for >>> yDNA/Surname testing? There are 5 of us in a "group" within a surname but >>> 3 of us have paper trails that fall short of the probable common ancestor. >>> We need some New Englanders who probably feel no need to do DNA testing as >>> they've been in the same area for generations and all KNOW how they're >>> related. I'm assuming some good candidates are not genealogists or family >>> historians, so cannot be reached through traditional genealogical >>> >>> channels. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course, I'll try via Ancestry and Family Tree DNA to try to find >>> candidates we don't have to "beg to spit" (nod to Blaine Bettinger) but >>> would like to find a good representation of descendant lines. >>> >>> Thoughts or suggestions? >>> >>> >>> Mary E Hall >>> Santa Barbara, CA >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4460/11025 - Release Date: 11/18/15 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brilliant. On Nov 19, 2015 4:39 PM, "Elizabeth Harris via" <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> wrote: > If Sam's mother was Mary, then Sam's son should have no DNA matches who > share ancestors with Joe, whereas if Sam's mother was one of the daughters, > you would expect him to have inherited some of Joe's DNA. Are there any > cousins available who are descendants of Joe's siblings, assuming he had > some? > > > > On Nov 19, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Wesley Johnston via wrote: > > > One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. > > Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several > daughters. > > Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow > and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at > home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about > 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's > parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor > church records. > > > > Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would > like to known who Sam's unknown father was. > > But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to > know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult > daughters? > > I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. > Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more > recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). > > > > Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches > his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters? > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Wesley, The simplest way to approach this problem is to do autosomal testing of descendents of siblings of Mary's husband, who is presumably the father of the two daughters. If analysis of the data indicates that Sam's son shares the appropriate amount of autosomal DNA with descendents of siblings of Mary's husband, then you know that one of the daughters was the mother of Sam. If analysis of the data indicates that Sam's son doesn't share any significant amounts of autosomal DNA with descendents of siblings of Mary's husband, then you know that Mary may have been the mother of Sam. Determining the parents of ancestors using autosomal DNA testing can be quite challenging, particularly if the ancestor is relatively far back on one's family tree. In this case, 25% of Sam's son's autosomal DNA came from an unknown man. You want to try to figure out which of segments of his DNA came from that man. Testing known cousins on his maternal side would help with chromosome mapping and would bring you closer to determining which portions of his autosomal DNA came from his unknown paternal grandfather. Sam's son's Y chromosome results may well be helpful to you in this quest as well. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wesley Johnston via Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 4:04 PM To: Genealogy-dna Subject: [DNA] Real Mother - the Mother or adult Daughter? One of our family members has a situation with his father's parents. Mary was married to Joe. They had several children, including several daughters. Joe died. And three years later, when his wife was an un-remarried widow and several of his adult daughters were unmarried and single and living at home, a son Sam was born and raised as Mary's son. This all happened about 100 years ago, and no one now living has actual knowledge of who Sam's parents really were. Sam's birth was never recorded, neither in civil nor church records. Clearly Sam's son (who has DNA tested for all 3 types - y, mt, at) would like to known who Sam's unknown father was. But -- and this is the subject of this post -- he would also like to know who Sam's mother was. Was it really Mary or was it one of her adult daughters? I have been rolling this around in my head -- with no breakthrough. Several of the relatives (all of the generation of Sam's son or more recent) have tested their atDNA (FTDNA Family Finder). Is there some way that we could figure out from how Sam's son matches his cousins whether his father's mother was Mary or one of Mary's daughters?