Thanks Ann! On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > That is about the time frame for the change-over: some who purchased their > kits on Amazon Prime Day (and sent their kits in right away) were processed > on v4 and some on v5. It doesn't matter where you purchased the kit (which > is just for mailing in the sample). It depends on when your sample arrived > at the lab. I plan to test myself to see how my results compare, and I was > advised to wait until this week to be sure it would be v5. > > Currently the version number appears as part of the file name when you > download your raw data; I assume (but don't know for certain) that will > apply to v5. > > Ann Turner > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:35 AM, LeeAnn Stebbins <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > How will we know what chip we tested on? I tested my mother last year, > but > > bought myself a kit on Amazon Prime day, which was July 11th. Do we have > a > > date they started using the new chip? Would it matter if the kit came > from > > Amazon? > > > > LeeAnn > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > LivingDNA and 23andMe v4 are very similar, using the same base GSA chip > > of > > > ~600K SNPs but with their own custom SNPs added for various reasons. > > > Segment matching across those two platforms should be roughly > comparable > > to > > > comparing two Illumina 700K chips and better than comparing say FTDNA > vs > > > AncestryDNA v2 or 23andMe v4. The GSA chip is probably the wave of the > > > future; LivingDNA has said that they expected the 700K chip to be > phased > > > out at some point, so they chose to use the GSA chip from the get-go. > > > > > > Ann Turner > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Michael Fisher < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > I was thinking of testing at 23andMe already having AncestryDNA and > > FTDNA > > > > but will give it a miss now. > > > > > > > > How does LivingDNA compare ? > > > > > > > > How do these new tests perform in the terms of matches to each other > > with > > > > the same provider or to a similar new type test provider ? > > > > > > > > Mike Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Eric Whilst we are talking about the new V5 - may I just mention the mtDNA SNPs. Unfortunately, it would seem V5 is not as good as V4 for mtDNA analysis; and 23andMe are currently only reporting on 14.7% of mtDNA bases (whereas the V4 chip results very usefully reported on 19.7%) And to make things worse, there appears to be around an 8.3% 'no call' level; which knocks the coverage back even further. Overall, 23andMe appear to have missed the opportunity to improve their mtDNA reporting -  and in fact seem to have gone backwards. I hope future analysis of the Autosomal results do not prove to disappoint also. Ian --------------------- > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Eric S Johnson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> GEDmatch has this announcement at the top of my login page: >> >> >> >> “Aug 10 2017 NOTICE to 23andMe Customers: 23andMe is now using the GSA >> chip for their new V5 raw DNA file results. This format is not compatible >> with the regular GEDmatch upload, but can be used with the GEDmatch Genesis >> upload. Use the link in the lower right column of this page.” >> >> >> >> Is our ability to “compare everyone with everyone” on GEDmatch now broken? >> I.e. all new 23andMe kits can’t be compared to any of the tens of thousands >> of existing GEDmatch kits? >> >> >> >> Genesis says “GEDmatch Genesis database will be separate from the main >> GEDmatch database, and comparisons for one will not show entries made in >> the other. Eventually, the 2 databases will be merged, and results will >> include entries from both” … but I wonder how long it’ll take for the >> merge; and it sounds like, for the moment, the schism is real ☹ >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Eric

How will we know what chip we tested on? I tested my mother last year, but bought myself a kit on Amazon Prime day, which was July 11th. Do we have a date they started using the new chip? Would it matter if the kit came from Amazon? LeeAnn On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > LivingDNA and 23andMe v4 are very similar, using the same base GSA chip of > ~600K SNPs but with their own custom SNPs added for various reasons. > Segment matching across those two platforms should be roughly comparable to > comparing two Illumina 700K chips and better than comparing say FTDNA vs > AncestryDNA v2 or 23andMe v4. The GSA chip is probably the wave of the > future; LivingDNA has said that they expected the 700K chip to be phased > out at some point, so they chose to use the GSA chip from the get-go. > > Ann Turner > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Michael Fisher <[email protected] > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I was thinking of testing at 23andMe already having AncestryDNA and FTDNA > > but will give it a miss now. > > > > How does LivingDNA compare ? > > > > How do these new tests perform in the terms of matches to each other with > > the same provider or to a similar new type test provider ? > > > > Mike Fisher > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That is about the time frame for the change-over: some who purchased their kits on Amazon Prime Day (and sent their kits in right away) were processed on v4 and some on v5. It doesn't matter where you purchased the kit (which is just for mailing in the sample). It depends on when your sample arrived at the lab. I plan to test myself to see how my results compare, and I was advised to wait until this week to be sure it would be v5. Currently the version number appears as part of the file name when you download your raw data; I assume (but don't know for certain) that will apply to v5. Ann Turner On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:35 AM, LeeAnn Stebbins <[email protected]> wrote: > How will we know what chip we tested on? I tested my mother last year, but > bought myself a kit on Amazon Prime day, which was July 11th. Do we have a > date they started using the new chip? Would it matter if the kit came from > Amazon? > > LeeAnn > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > LivingDNA and 23andMe v4 are very similar, using the same base GSA chip > of > > ~600K SNPs but with their own custom SNPs added for various reasons. > > Segment matching across those two platforms should be roughly comparable > to > > comparing two Illumina 700K chips and better than comparing say FTDNA vs > > AncestryDNA v2 or 23andMe v4. The GSA chip is probably the wave of the > > future; LivingDNA has said that they expected the 700K chip to be phased > > out at some point, so they chose to use the GSA chip from the get-go. > > > > Ann Turner > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Michael Fisher < > [email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I was thinking of testing at 23andMe already having AncestryDNA and > FTDNA > > > but will give it a miss now. > > > > > > How does LivingDNA compare ? > > > > > > How do these new tests perform in the terms of matches to each other > with > > > the same provider or to a similar new type test provider ? > > > > > > Mike Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

LivingDNA and 23andMe v4 are very similar, using the same base GSA chip of ~600K SNPs but with their own custom SNPs added for various reasons. Segment matching across those two platforms should be roughly comparable to comparing two Illumina 700K chips and better than comparing say FTDNA vs AncestryDNA v2 or 23andMe v4. The GSA chip is probably the wave of the future; LivingDNA has said that they expected the 700K chip to be phased out at some point, so they chose to use the GSA chip from the get-go. Ann Turner On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Michael Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi > > I was thinking of testing at 23andMe already having AncestryDNA and FTDNA > but will give it a miss now. > > How does LivingDNA compare ? > > How do these new tests perform in the terms of matches to each other with > the same provider or to a similar new type test provider ? > > Mike Fisher > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The same restriction applies to LivingDNA -- it can be used in the beta Genesis site, but not the main GEDmatch database. The problem is the reduced number of SNPs available for cross-platform comparisons. You can upload a file to the regular GEDmatch and use it for one-to-one comparisons, however. The results seem fine for larger segments. Ann Turner On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Eric S Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > GEDmatch has this announcement at the top of my login page: > > > > “Aug 10 2017 NOTICE to 23andMe Customers: 23andMe is now using the GSA > chip for their new V5 raw DNA file results. This format is not compatible > with the regular GEDmatch upload, but can be used with the GEDmatch Genesis > upload. Use the link in the lower right column of this page.” > > > > Is our ability to “compare everyone with everyone” on GEDmatch now broken? > I.e. all new 23andMe kits can’t be compared to any of the tens of thousands > of existing GEDmatch kits? > > > > Genesis says “GEDmatch Genesis database will be separate from the main > GEDmatch database, and comparisons for one will not show entries made in > the other. Eventually, the 2 databases will be merged, and results will > include entries from both” … but I wonder how long it’ll take for the > merge; and it sounds like, for the moment, the schism is real ☹ > > > > Best, > > Eric > > <https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/DownloadKey.event?keyid=0xE0F58E0F1AF7E6F2> > OpenPGP: 0x1AF7E6F2 ● Skype: oneota ● XMPP/OTR: <mailto: > [email protected]> [email protected] ● Silent Circle: +1 312 > 614-0159 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm with Doug Karla, no _reason_ at all to spend the money, but I'm in the I want to know camp. And am running out of willing "cousins" of assorted flavours for FamilyFinder. The brickwall that got me into DNA testing all those years ago remains unbroken - where did Archibald HENDERSON come from?. My 2nd cousin guinea pig tested (yDNA37 back then) and had no matches beyond 25 markers. In frustration, some years ago I tested another 2nd cousin, 2nd cousin to us both, but at yDNA67 - and thankfully got a match - GD2 (the first cousin had been upgraded to yDNA67 during a sale). I've now even BigY tested both. Which created a new branch on the (R) tree for them, estimated time from YFull for the MRCA of their branch, 225 ybp (1725), a sub branch of R-S7361 (mrca 1150 ybp) Regards Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com On 18/08/17 04:54, Karla Huebner wrote: > I don't know that I'd quite call myself a DNA test addict yet. Generally > speaking, I'm focused on testing more and more relatives, not on confirming > what's already known to be true. This means that on MOST days I figure > there's not a pressing need to do a Y test on my father's cousin... but the > thought does come up from time to time. > > Oddly enough, I don't have a lot of readily available Y candidates for > other parts of my family, or at least not among people I'm in touch with. > That's probably why I think at all about testing this cousin. > > Karla Huebner > calypsospots AT gmail.com > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:43 PM, McDonald, J Douglas <[email protected] >> wrote: >> With a proven male line cousin relation, and a BigY, there is absolutely no >> reason to spend money on any Y test of the cousin. >> >> OF course, there are such people as DNA test addicts, I'm one. If you are, >> its just money, and you will be happier if you test him. >> >> Doug McDonald >> >> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

List Just 4 new mtDNA sequences on the GenBank database from FTDNA customers who have made their own submissions. The sequences belong to Haplogroups: HV15, M30-C16234T, T2, T2a1b1a1 As usual I have added the results to my 'Checker' program to ensure accuracy of transcription. Ian www.ianlogan.co.uk -------------- MF614761(Sweden) FTDNA Haplogroup T2 16-AUG-2017 A73G G185A A263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C G709A A750G A1438G G1888A A2706G A3395G T4216C A4769G A4917G G6260A C7028T G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A C16108T T16126C 16188.1C C16239T C16294T C16296T C16301T T16519C MF615390(Sweden) FTDNA Haplogroup HV15 16-AUG-2017 T195C A200G A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G G5746A C7028T A8860G C10581T A15326G C16234T T16311C T16362C MF621131(Australian) FTDNA Haplogroup M30-C16234T 16-AUG-2017 A73G T195A A263G 309.1C 315.1C T489C C522- A523- A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A8701G A8860G T9540C A10398G C10400T T10873C G11719A G12007A C12705T C14766T T14783C G15043A T15287C G15301A A15326G G15431A C16223T C16234T T16519C MF626400(Sweden) FTDNA Haplogroup T2a1b1a1 12-AUG-2017 A73G A215G A263G 309.1C 315.1C G709A A750G A1438G G1888A T2141C A2706G T4216C A4769G A4917G C7028T G8697A A8860G T9117C T10463C A11251G A11380G G11719A A11812G C12741T G13368A T13965C A13966G A14233G A14687G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C C16294T C16296T T16324C T16519C

Karla, I followed your brother by a couple of years, also primarily for science rather than immediate personal benefit, and that was true when I was asked to take the DYF399X test. The R1a Project team are remarkable in intellect and work ethic, something to help. Haplogroup was appropriate at first, but things move so fast it's perhaps at haplotype now. Your words "something I know how to do much with" are also perhaps dated. Profound insights aren't associated with small sample statistics, but there's getting to be lot of data now. There's enough for very nasty questions to be asked about how it's being analysed. Sometimes people with deep understanding of underlying methodology are at a disadvantage. It needs a good statistician with no preconceptions to just look at the data and see what it does and does not say. One with more than just competence to see what it might say. Perhaps with novel statistical treatment... kb

List A very large set of 2,790 complete mtDNA sequences from Madagascar has appeared on the GenBank database. The sequences come from a variety of Haplogroups; and in the first 200 sequences there are examples from: The African Haplogroups: L0a1b1a1, L0a2, L0a2a1b, L0a2a2a, L0d1c, L0f L1b2, L1c1d, L1c2a2, L1c3a, L1c3c, L2a1a2, L2a1b1a, L2b1a3 L3a-G709A, L3b1a, L3b1a1a, L3d1a1a, L3d1a1a1 L3e1a3a, L3e1d1, L3e3a, L3e3b1, L3f1b4a1 And the Asian Haplogroups: B4a1a1b, E1a1a1, F3b1b, F4b1, M7c1c3, M23, M32c The sequences accompany the paper: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2017 Aug 8;114(32) 'Genomic landscape of human diversity across Madagascar' Pierron D, et al. Abstract given below, It is difficult to present the data from such a large set of sequences; but the details for the first 200 sequences MF055747-MF055946 are given on my website at: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/lists/pierron-1.htm and my 'Checker' program also gives the mutation lists: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/checker/checker-pierron.htm More results will appear as I work through the data. Ian www.ianlogan.co.uk ------------------------------- Abstract Although situated ∼400 km from the east coast of Africa, Madagascar exhibits cultural, linguistic, and genetic traits from both Southeast Asia and Eastern Africa. The settlement history remains contentious; we therefore used a grid-based approach to sample at high resolution the genomic diversity (including maternal lineages, paternal lineages, and genome-wide data) across 257 villages and 2,704 Malagasy individuals. We find a common Bantu and Austronesian descent for all Malagasy individuals with a limited paternal contribution from Europe and the Middle East. Admixture and demographic growth happened recently, suggesting a rapid settlement of Madagascar during the last millennium. However, the distribution of African and Asian ancestry across the island reveals that the admixture was sex biased and happened heterogeneously across Madagascar, suggesting independent colonization of Madagascar from Africa and Asia rather than settlement by an already admixed population. In addition, there are geographic influences on the present genomic diversity, independent of the admixture, showing that a few centuries is sufficient to produce detectable genetic structure in human populations.

Thanks, Keith--my brother's data has been on YFull since almost the start, but I'm no expert at the niceties of Y, so it is useful getting your take on what can be learned there. His results were seen as very useful for work on his general haplogroup (or is it haplotype?), but I myself just take it as useful for science rather than something I know how to do much with. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Keith Britton <[email protected]> wrote: > If your brother's BAM hasn't been sent to YFull for analysis, that's cheap > at a little over $50. From my experience, his STR report should fill in > all but 4 of those values beyond 37 in the FTDNA 111 list, missing DYS487, > 716 and 413ab. DYF399 has been informative within R1a. His SNP matches > may be helpful, as may ancestral values from recent common ancestors. > According to the latest from YFull, his ID should appear, correctly > positioned, within a few hours of BAM downloading. > > DYF399 is a fast mover, so potentially discriminatory for dating and recent > branching. My values reported by kittler test are 21.1t 22t 22t 26c while > YFull reports 21.1 23? 27?. The Kittler test is inexpensive but still > wasted money if taken without a particular purpose. What Yfull reports > seems sufficient to evaluate potential value of better testing and would > have sufficed for exclusionary purposes in my case. > > The YFull Ytree (now version 5.05) is sparse compared to the STR > assemblages in haplogroup projects, but complementary. It's far easier to > see the big picture, relative dating, and something of sampling locations. > With caveats, one can go back up the tree to estimate ancestral values, and > that's 370 or so STRs rather than FTDNA's 111. > > Location information is poor in both STR and SNP trees, so geo/historical > insights benefit from their combination. Further, the certainty of SNP > structure greatly helps structural evaluation by STR, with the latter > strengthened and dominating in late dating. > > kb > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Karla Huebner <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I don't know that I'd quite call myself a DNA test addict yet. Generally > > speaking, I'm focused on testing more and more relatives, not on > confirming > > what's already known to be true. This means that on MOST days I figure > > there's not a pressing need to do a Y test on my father's cousin... but > the > > thought does come up from time to time. > > > > Oddly enough, I don't have a lot of readily available Y candidates for > > other parts of my family, or at least not among people I'm in touch with. > > That's probably why I think at all about testing this cousin. > > > > Karla Huebner > > calypsospots AT gmail.com > > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:43 PM, McDonald, J Douglas < > > [email protected] > > > wrote: > > > > > With a proven male line cousin relation, and a BigY, there is > absolutely > > no > > > reason to spend money on any Y test of the cousin. > > > > > > OF course, there are such people as DNA test addicts, I'm one. If you > > are, > > > its just money, and you will be happier if you test him. > > > > > > Doug McDonald > > > > > > > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email& > > utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > Virus-free. > > www.avg.com > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email& > > utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

With a proven male line cousin relation, and a BigY, there is absolutely no reason to spend money on any Y test of the cousin. OF course, there are such people as DNA test addicts, I'm one. If you are, its just money, and you will be happier if you test him. Doug McDonald -----Original Message----- My brother has done Y-37 and Big Y, as well as autosomal testing. He has no very close matches with 37 markers--they come to a distance of 2 at 25 markers. He belongs to the appropriate Y project, which has an updated map ... My father's first cousin has done Family Finder and is clearly related just as expected. So far we have not bothered to test his Y, on the theory that it is likely to be exactly the same, although the possibility does exist that there is a mutation either in his line or my grandfather's. Thoughts on whether to get his Y tested?

You bet I'm interested! I would love to test them. I need the raw data files send as email attachments, with NATIVE AMERICAN in the subject line. Doug McDonald [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: GENEALOGY-DNA [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DNA] A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia I have tested 3 NAs....an PaiPai elder from northern Baja California, a Kumiai (also from Baja California) and a Navajo...if anyone is interested....all with FTDNA. Teddi Montes On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:50:38 -0400, Jan Campbell <[email protected]> wrote: > Ian, > > Your continued illumination of genes from around our world is fascinating, > thank you for taking the time to send to this group. > > I noticed the Amazonians from Columbia represent A, B, C, and D mtDNA, but > no X that I noticed. They have also cleverly avoided the european > contributions, while still inducing genetic diversity outside of the > linguistic groups locally. > > Do you know if there is a way to get this type of data included in the > "reference populations" used by ancestryDNA, 23andme, ftDNA, Nat Geneo, > etc? I know so many folks with extensive "family history" stories of > native american heritage where it does not show up in test results. > > I understand the problem is so few native testers from USA, so a small pool > for reference populations. With the decreasing contributions of ancient > relatives, we should not be surprised that the evidence diminishes, at > least until full genome tests are the norm. > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > genetic native roots? > > Thanks for all your contributions! > > Janeth A Campbell > > Retired Researcher and Educator > PO Box 13877 > Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 > > *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If your brother's BAM hasn't been sent to YFull for analysis, that's cheap at a little over $50. From my experience, his STR report should fill in all but 4 of those values beyond 37 in the FTDNA 111 list, missing DYS487, 716 and 413ab. DYF399 has been informative within R1a. His SNP matches may be helpful, as may ancestral values from recent common ancestors. According to the latest from YFull, his ID should appear, correctly positioned, within a few hours of BAM downloading. DYF399 is a fast mover, so potentially discriminatory for dating and recent branching. My values reported by kittler test are 21.1t 22t 22t 26c while YFull reports 21.1 23? 27?. The Kittler test is inexpensive but still wasted money if taken without a particular purpose. What Yfull reports seems sufficient to evaluate potential value of better testing and would have sufficed for exclusionary purposes in my case. The YFull Ytree (now version 5.05) is sparse compared to the STR assemblages in haplogroup projects, but complementary. It's far easier to see the big picture, relative dating, and something of sampling locations. With caveats, one can go back up the tree to estimate ancestral values, and that's 370 or so STRs rather than FTDNA's 111. Location information is poor in both STR and SNP trees, so geo/historical insights benefit from their combination. Further, the certainty of SNP structure greatly helps structural evaluation by STR, with the latter strengthened and dominating in late dating. kb On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Karla Huebner <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't know that I'd quite call myself a DNA test addict yet. Generally > speaking, I'm focused on testing more and more relatives, not on confirming > what's already known to be true. This means that on MOST days I figure > there's not a pressing need to do a Y test on my father's cousin... but the > thought does come up from time to time. > > Oddly enough, I don't have a lot of readily available Y candidates for > other parts of my family, or at least not among people I'm in touch with. > That's probably why I think at all about testing this cousin. > > Karla Huebner > calypsospots AT gmail.com > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:43 PM, McDonald, J Douglas < > [email protected] > > wrote: > > > With a proven male line cousin relation, and a BigY, there is absolutely > no > > reason to spend money on any Y test of the cousin. > > > > OF course, there are such people as DNA test addicts, I'm one. If you > are, > > its just money, and you will be happier if you test him. > > > > Doug McDonald > > > > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email& > utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email& > utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I don't know that I'd quite call myself a DNA test addict yet. Generally speaking, I'm focused on testing more and more relatives, not on confirming what's already known to be true. This means that on MOST days I figure there's not a pressing need to do a Y test on my father's cousin... but the thought does come up from time to time. Oddly enough, I don't have a lot of readily available Y candidates for other parts of my family, or at least not among people I'm in touch with. That's probably why I think at all about testing this cousin. Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:43 PM, McDonald, J Douglas <[email protected] > wrote: > With a proven male line cousin relation, and a BigY, there is absolutely no > reason to spend money on any Y test of the cousin. > > OF course, there are such people as DNA test addicts, I'm one. If you are, > its just money, and you will be happier if you test him. > > Doug McDonald > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Ted and others, Please do share the basic genome info (like Ian does) of ANY north american indian DNA test. It is the only way we will eventually know about the genes of true natives from the north american area. I understand why many will not test, they have so much to loose if the test does not confirm their tribal identity, so please keep their names safe from the public eye. THANKS to all who have commented. EagleLittle Janeth A Campbell Retired Researcher and Educator PO Box 13877 Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:08 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send GENEALOGY-DNA mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists3.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mailman/listinfo/genealogy-dna > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of GENEALOGY-DNA digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia (Jan Campbell) > 2. Re: A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia (McDonald, J Douglas) > 3. Re: A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia ([email protected]) > 4. Re: A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia (Sam Sloan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:50:38 -0400 > From: Jan Campbell <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DNA] A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia > Message-ID: > <[email protected] > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Ian, > > Your continued illumination of genes from around our world is fascinating, > thank you for taking the time to send to this group. > > I noticed the Amazonians from Columbia represent A, B, C, and D mtDNA, but > no X that I noticed. They have also cleverly avoided the european > contributions, while still inducing genetic diversity outside of the > linguistic groups locally. > > Do you know if there is a way to get this type of data included in the > "reference populations" used by ancestryDNA, 23andme, ftDNA, Nat Geneo, > etc? I know so many folks with extensive "family history" stories of > native american heritage where it does not show up in test results. > > I understand the problem is so few native testers from USA, so a small pool > for reference populations. With the decreasing contributions of ancient > relatives, we should not be surprised that the evidence diminishes, at > least until full genome tests are the norm. > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > genetic native roots? > > Thanks for all your contributions! > > Janeth A Campbell > > Retired Researcher and Educator > PO Box 13877 > Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 > > *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:59:26 +0000 > From: "McDonald, J Douglas" <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DNA] A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia > Message-ID: > <[email protected] > uillinois.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Certainly, it is possible. It just requires autosomal testing lots and > lots of people from > present-day descendants. This means over 200 reasonably unrelated (more > than 2nd cousins) > people from each group, several thousand in toto. > > Then it would be possible to identify segments with ancestral groups. > These could be used > either as-is in some sorts of computer algorithms, or assembled into > several unrelated > "synthetic people" for each group. > > >From over 40 US (east of the Rockies) and SE Canadian "natives" I have > now assembled > 4 unrelated synthetic people. Other testees tested since I did the assembly > do indeed fit this group when they are expected to. > > The problem is getting that many. Due to partisan politics it can't be > done by academics, > only by ad-hoc group amateurs. I suspect, and only suspect with zero > evidence, that > the testing companies are afraid to do it. > > Doug McDonald > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > genetic native roots? > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:43:21 -0700 > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DNA] A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have tested 3 NAs....an PaiPai elder from northern Baja California, a > Kumiai (also from Baja California) and a Navajo...if anyone is > interested....all with FTDNA. > > Teddi Montes > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:50:38 -0400, Jan Campbell <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ian, > > > > Your continued illumination of genes from around our world is > fascinating, > > thank you for taking the time to send to this group. > > > > I noticed the Amazonians from Columbia represent A, B, C, and D mtDNA, > but > > no X that I noticed. They have also cleverly avoided the european > > contributions, while still inducing genetic diversity outside of the > > linguistic groups locally. > > > > Do you know if there is a way to get this type of data included in the > > "reference populations" used by ancestryDNA, 23andme, ftDNA, Nat Geneo, > > etc? I know so many folks with extensive "family history" stories of > > native american heritage where it does not show up in test results. > > > > I understand the problem is so few native testers from USA, so a small > pool > > for reference populations. With the decreasing contributions of ancient > > relatives, we should not be surprised that the evidence diminishes, at > > least until full genome tests are the norm. > > > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > > genetic native roots? > > > > Thanks for all your contributions! > > > > Janeth A Campbell > > > > Retired Researcher and Educator > > PO Box 13877 > > Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 > > > > *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:08:51 -0400 > From: Sam Sloan <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DNA] A, B, C, D from natives in Amazonia > Message-ID: > <CAEaNpcdqK1Ph+fpmAaUrJ65vHzuBWkvsR_CoYCMRzN_ > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Can you please give us their Gedmatch numbers. > > Do not neglect to upload to gedmatch. > > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:43 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I have tested 3 NAs....an PaiPai elder from northern Baja California, a > > Kumiai (also from Baja California) and a Navajo...if anyone is > > interested....all with FTDNA. > > > > Teddi Montes > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:50:38 -0400, Jan Campbell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Ian, > > > > > > Your continued illumination of genes from around our world is > > fascinating, > > > thank you for taking the time to send to this group. > > > > > > I noticed the Amazonians from Columbia represent A, B, C, and D mtDNA, > > but > > > no X that I noticed. They have also cleverly avoided the european > > > contributions, while still inducing genetic diversity outside of the > > > linguistic groups locally. > > > > > > Do you know if there is a way to get this type of data included in the > > > "reference populations" used by ancestryDNA, 23andme, ftDNA, Nat Geneo, > > > etc? I know so many folks with extensive "family history" stories of > > > native american heritage where it does not show up in test results. > > > > > > I understand the problem is so few native testers from USA, so a small > > pool > > > for reference populations. With the decreasing contributions of > ancient > > > relatives, we should not be surprised that the evidence diminishes, at > > > least until full genome tests are the norm. > > > > > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > > > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > > > genetic native roots? > > > > > > Thanks for all your contributions! > > > > > > Janeth A Campbell > > > > > > Retired Researcher and Educator > > > PO Box 13877 > > > Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 > > > > > > *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > To contact the GENEALOGY-DNA list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the GENEALOGY-DNA mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > ------------------------------ > > End of GENEALOGY-DNA Digest, Vol 12, Issue 582 > ********************************************** >

Seems to me the answer depends on whether you can afford the additional test. Confirming that the two men have the same Y DNA profile would remove one possible source of uncertainty in the genealogy. If they don't match, you have a new set of genealogical problems to explore. If they do match, you are no closer to breaking through the brick wall in Poland, but at least you would know it is the right wall. John McCoy ([email protected]) In a message dated 8/17/2017 8:02:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: What with the sales currently on at FTDNA, I'm wondering about my options... here's the situation: My brother has done Y-37 and Big Y, as well as autosomal testing. He has no very close matches with 37 markers--they come to a distance of 2 at 25 markers. He belongs to the appropriate Y project, which has an updated map here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1Wev1XRrmyzQl5v12SRiIp8hmqK8&hl=pl& ll=51.031354920586296%2C19.846628250000094&z=4 . My father's first cousin has done Family Finder and is clearly related just as expected. So far we have not bothered to test his Y, on the theory that it is likely to be exactly the same, although the possibility does exist that there is a mutation either in his line or my grandfather's. Thoughts on whether to get his Y tested? He and other surviving males descended from my great-grandfather are the only people we know of in the lineage--we haven't discovered my great-great-grandfather's parents or siblings, as he first appears in the records we have seen as a parent in Polajewo in the Posen/Poznan region of what's now Poland. In other words, great-great born in the 1820s is now the top brick wall ancestor as all the other lines go into the 18th century or earlier. Sifting through all the neighboring parish records seems like our next and daunting step to trace him. I have probably asked this question before, but as prices drop and list membership changes a bit, it can't hurt to pose it again. Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My vote is yes. Father's first cousin, has three points where a special mutation could occur. If it happened, he might match your brother *also* at 23/25 and yet suddenly match someone else at 25/25 and there you go. -----Original Message----- From: Karla Huebner <[email protected]> To: genealogy-dna <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 8:02 am Subject: [DNA] Y DNA question What with the sales currently on at FTDNA, I'm wondering about my options... here's the situation: My brother has done Y-37 and Big Y, as well as autosomal testing. He has no very close matches with 37 markers--they come to a distance of 2 at 25 markers. He belongs to the appropriate Y project, which has an updated map here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1Wev1XRrmyzQl5v12SRiIp8hmqK8&hl=pl&ll=51.031354920586296%2C19.846628250000094&z=4 . My father's first cousin has done Family Finder and is clearly related just as expected. So far we have not bothered to test his Y, on the theory that it is likely to be exactly the same, although the possibility does exist that there is a mutation either in his line or my grandfather's. Thoughts on whether to get his Y tested? He and other surviving males descended from my great-grandfather are the only people we know of in the lineage--we haven't discovered my great-great-grandfather's parents or siblings, as he first appears in the records we have seen as a parent in Polajewo in the Posen/Poznan region of what's now Poland. In other words, great-great born in the 1820s is now the top brick wall ancestor as all the other lines go into the 18th century or earlier. Sifting through all the neighboring parish records seems like our next and daunting step to trace him. I have probably asked this question before, but as prices drop and list membership changes a bit, it can't hurt to pose it again. Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What with the sales currently on at FTDNA, I'm wondering about my options... here's the situation: My brother has done Y-37 and Big Y, as well as autosomal testing. He has no very close matches with 37 markers--they come to a distance of 2 at 25 markers. He belongs to the appropriate Y project, which has an updated map here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1Wev1XRrmyzQl5v12SRiIp8hmqK8&hl=pl&ll=51.031354920586296%2C19.846628250000094&z=4 . My father's first cousin has done Family Finder and is clearly related just as expected. So far we have not bothered to test his Y, on the theory that it is likely to be exactly the same, although the possibility does exist that there is a mutation either in his line or my grandfather's. Thoughts on whether to get his Y tested? He and other surviving males descended from my great-grandfather are the only people we know of in the lineage--we haven't discovered my great-great-grandfather's parents or siblings, as he first appears in the records we have seen as a parent in Polajewo in the Posen/Poznan region of what's now Poland. In other words, great-great born in the 1820s is now the top brick wall ancestor as all the other lines go into the 18th century or earlier. Sifting through all the neighboring parish records seems like our next and daunting step to trace him. I have probably asked this question before, but as prices drop and list membership changes a bit, it can't hurt to pose it again. Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Can you please give us their Gedmatch numbers. Do not neglect to upload to gedmatch. On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:43 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I have tested 3 NAs....an PaiPai elder from northern Baja California, a > Kumiai (also from Baja California) and a Navajo...if anyone is > interested....all with FTDNA. > > Teddi Montes > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:50:38 -0400, Jan Campbell <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ian, > > > > Your continued illumination of genes from around our world is > fascinating, > > thank you for taking the time to send to this group. > > > > I noticed the Amazonians from Columbia represent A, B, C, and D mtDNA, > but > > no X that I noticed. They have also cleverly avoided the european > > contributions, while still inducing genetic diversity outside of the > > linguistic groups locally. > > > > Do you know if there is a way to get this type of data included in the > > "reference populations" used by ancestryDNA, 23andme, ftDNA, Nat Geneo, > > etc? I know so many folks with extensive "family history" stories of > > native american heritage where it does not show up in test results. > > > > I understand the problem is so few native testers from USA, so a small > pool > > for reference populations. With the decreasing contributions of ancient > > relatives, we should not be surprised that the evidence diminishes, at > > least until full genome tests are the norm. > > > > Is there a solution to american tribal descendants, who were forced to > > intermix with europeans for survival over the centuries, to find their > > genetic native roots? > > > > Thanks for all your contributions! > > > > Janeth A Campbell > > > > Retired Researcher and Educator > > PO Box 13877 > > Tallahassee, Florida 32317-3877 > > > > *J*[email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >