GOSH you and me both - I am in a big mess Cheers from Valerie Garton [nee Vaughan] in sunny Sydney -----Original Message----- From: GENEALOGY-DNA [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Webster Sent: Tuesday, 26 September 2017 3:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DNA] Contact template I am looking for examples, suggestions for keeping a record of people contacted for DNA matches. Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am looking for examples, suggestions for keeping a record of people contacted for DNA matches. Bill

Bill I use a spreadsheet. You can put anything in a cell: a date; a copy of a whole message; etc. My spreadsheet has a row for each match with a column called sent. I have a word document with many standard messages - each with a code. When I send a message, I add the code and date in the spreadsheet in the sent cell. Also a Receive column to tract dates of replies. With thousands of Matches, this helps me keep track of which ones I've contacted and who replied. My spreadsheet also has segment info (Chr, Start, End, cM, SNP) which lets me sort by Chr and Start. This puts overlapping segments next to each other, and makes it easier to Triangulate. I can then better see the discussion with Triangulated Groups in the spreadsheet - and note any MRCAs with Matches. I need to do some blog posts on the spreadsheet system I've developed over the past 7 years... Jim Bartlett - atDNA blog: www.segmentology.org > On Sep 26, 2017, at 1:48 AM, Bill Webster <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am looking for examples, suggestions for keeping a record of people contacted for DNA matches. > Bill > >

The settlement applies to US residents only -- item 4 in this FAQ http://www.23andmesettlement.com/faqs.aspx Ann Turner On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Andreas West <[email protected]> wrote: > What about non US residents? > > Andreas > > > On 25 Sep 2017, at 16:05, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > You are automatically included as a member of the class (which I find > > objectionable, BTW -- I don't feel the suit has merit). > > > > Are you using the same email address currently that you used when you > > purchased the kits? Have you checked your spam folder? The administrator > is > > supposed to eventually follow up with US Mail if emails bounce. > > > > Ann Turner >

What about non US residents? Andreas > On 25 Sep 2017, at 16:05, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > > You are automatically included as a member of the class (which I find > objectionable, BTW -- I don't feel the suit has merit). > > Are you using the same email address currently that you used when you > purchased the kits? Have you checked your spam folder? The administrator is > supposed to eventually follow up with US Mail if emails bounce. > > Ann Turner > > >> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:27 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> My sis got an email that she's a member of a class action lawsuit >> settlement against 23.&nbsp; My wife and I got no such letter.&nbsp; >> Supposedly the 1st date is the date 23 started to accept specimens.&nbsp; >> And my sis got her kit way after my wife and I did.&nbsp; My wife and I >> could use the discounted kits.&nbsp; I just got a blow off letter from the >> company handling the dispersal.&nbsp; Anyone know why some of us are not >> included?&nbsp; (My sis has V4 and wife and I have V2.) >> John L >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here was my letter: LEGAL NOTICE If You Purchased the 23andMe Personal Genome Service (the "PGS") Between October 16, 2007 and November 22, 2013, You Are Entitled To Compensation Davis-Hudson, et al. v. 23andMe, Inc., AAA Case No. 74-20-1400-0032 WHAT IS THIS NOTICE ABOUT? An arbitration is pending before the American Arbitration Association (the "Arbitration") that may affect your rights. The Arbitration claims that 23andMe, Inc. ("23andMe") ("Respondent") sold the Personal Genome Service (the "PGS") to consumers based on inaccurate information regarding the PGS's specifications and capabilities, and compliance with applicable federal and state laws. 23andMe denies these claims. The Arbitrator, Robert L. Brent, did not rule in favor of Claimants or 23andMe. Instead, the parties agreed to a proposed settlement. AM I A MEMBER OF THE CLASS? The class is defined as all persons who reside in the United States of America who purchased for personal use a PGS from 23andMe between October 16, 2007 and November 22, 2013 ("Class Period") other than for purposes of resale or distribution or to provide to third parties for purposes of research or education. WHAT DOES THE SETTLEMENT PROVIDE? Subject to Arbitrator approval, all Settlement Class Members will be entitled, for each PGS unit(s) they purchased, to receive either a Certificate for $40.00 off the cost of a 23andMe Genetic Testing Kit ("Certificate"), or to receive $12.50 in cash (the "Cash Compensation") for each qualifying purchase. Settlement Class Members will be entitled to make an election for the Cash Compensation for each PGS unit they purchased during the Class Period. If they do not make the Election to receive the Cash Compensation, they will receive the Certificate after the settlement is final. Ex. 1 to the Settlement Agreement, located at www.23andMesettlement.com <http://echo.bluehornet.com/ct/9528650:N49q63QuN:m:1:274587027:77D98C2024388 CB0E3392EA78ED4F772:r> , provides details on the terms and conditions of the Certificate. WHAT ARE MY RIGHTS ? You have a choice of whether to stay in the Class or not, and you must decide this now. 1. You Can Accept the Settlement. Class Members who wish to receive Cash Compensation must elect to do so by December 6, 2017. You can download an Election Form or submit it online at www.23andMesettlement.com <http://echo.bluehornet.com/ct/9528650:N49q63QuN:m:1:274587027:77D98C2024388 CB0E3392EA78ED4F772:r> . Read the instructions carefully, and submit it online on or before December 6, 2017. Alternatively, you may also submit an Election Form by mailing it to the following address: 23andMe Settlement Administrator, P.O. Box 404000, Louisville, KY 40233-4000. It must be received no later than December 6, 2017. Election Forms may also be e-mailed or faxed to [email protected] or 1-866-536-0135. They must be received by the Administrator no later than 11:59 p.m. Pacific Time on December 6, 2017 to be considered valid. If you fail to submit a timely Election and do not exclude yourself from the settlement, then you will be bound by the settlement but will not receive Cash Compensation, and will instead receive the Certificate. All consideration will be distributed after the settlement becomes final. If you stay in the Class, you will be legally bound by all orders and awards of the Arbitrator, and you won't be able to sue, or continue to sue, 23andMe as part of any other arbitration or lawsuit involving the same claims that are in this arbitration. 2. You Can Object to the Settlement. You can ask the Arbitrator to deny approval by filing an objection with the Arbitrator. You can't ask the Arbitrator to order a larger settlement; the Arbitrator can only approve or deny the settlement. If the Arbitrator denies approval no settlement payments will be sent out and the arbitration will continue. If that is what you want to happen, you must object. You may hire your own lawyer to appear before the Arbitrator for you if you wish; however, if you do, you will be responsible for paying that lawyer on your behalf. Objections to the proposed settlement will be considered by the Arbitrator only if such objections are filed in writing and emailed to [email protected], or postmarked by October 20, 2017 to the American Arbitration Association, 950 Warren Avenue, East Providence, RI 02914, Re: Davis-Hudson v. 23andMe, Inc., Robert L. Brent, Arbitrator. Objections must clearly state your name, e-mail and U.S. mail address, telephone number, the title of this Arbitration, approximate date you purchased the PGS, and provide a detailed description of the grounds for each objection you make. 3. You Can "Opt Out" of the Settlement. If you exclude yourself from the Class - which is sometimes called "opting-out" of the Class - you won't get a payment from the settlement but won't be barred from asserting claims against 23andMe. Such notice shall include your name, e-mail and U.S. mail address, telephone number, approximate date you purchased the PGS, and a statement that you want to be excluded from the arbitration Davis-Hudson v. 23andMe, Inc., AAA Case No. 74-20-1400-0032. Send the written notice to 23andMe Settlement Administrator, P.O. Box 404000, Louisville, KY 40233-4000 postmarked no later than October 20, 2017. THE FAIRNESS HEARING On November 15, 2017, at 11:00 a.m. at The Orrick Building, 405 Howard Street, San Francisco, California 94105, the Arbitrator will hold a hearing to determine: (1) whether the proposed settlement is fair, reasonable, and adequate and should receive final approval; and (2) whether the application for Claimants' attorneys' fees and expenses of up to $2,250,000, and payment of up to $10,000 to each of the two named Class Representatives should be granted. Class Members who support the proposed settlement do not need to appear at the hearing or take any other action to indicate their approval. HOW CAN I GET MORE INFORMATION? This is only a summary of the settlement. If you have questions or want to view the detailed notice or other documents about this arbitration, including the Settlement Agreement, you may visit www.23andMesettlement.com <http://echo.bluehornet.com/ct/9528650:N49q63QuN:m:1:274587027:77D98C2024388 CB0E3392EA78ED4F772:r> . You may also contact Class Counsel through www.whatleykallas.com <http://echo.bluehornet.com/ct/9528651:N49q63QuN:m:1:274587027:77D98C2024388 CB0E3392EA78ED4F772:r> , or call the Settlement Administrator at: 1-866-645-6923. By Order of Robert L. Brent, American Arbitration Association. -----Original Message----- From: GENEALOGY-DNA [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DNA] class action lawsuit Ann, Would you please tell us what the lawsuit is about. Thanks, Marleen Van Horne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I received that letter also -----Original Message----- From: GENEALOGY-DNA [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 5:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DNA] class action lawsuit My sis got an email that she's a member of a class action lawsuit settlement against 23.&nbsp; My wife and I got no such letter.&nbsp; Supposedly the 1st date is the date 23 started to accept specimens.&nbsp; And my sis got her kit way after my wife and I did.&nbsp; My wife and I could use the discounted kits.&nbsp; I just got a blow off letter from the company handling the dispersal.&nbsp; Anyone know why some of us are not included?&nbsp; (My sis has V4 and wife and I have V2.) John L ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree I don't think the suit has merit; but IMO 23 has jacked up their price in anticipation that they would have to back it down in order to pay off this kind of thing.&nbsp; IOW I'm planing on using the coupon the way 23 intended from the start (IMO).&nbsp; Although I'd have rather there was a 3rd option of upgrading one's own kit to a newer chip for a bigger discount. Ann T wrote ... (which I find objectionable, BTW -- I don't feel the suit has merit). ... Ann Turner

My sis got an email that she's a member of a class action lawsuit settlement against 23.&nbsp; My wife and I got no such letter.&nbsp; Supposedly the 1st date is the date 23 started to accept specimens.&nbsp; And my sis got her kit way after my wife and I did.&nbsp; My wife and I could use the discounted kits.&nbsp; I just got a blow off letter from the company handling the dispersal.&nbsp; Anyone know why some of us are not included?&nbsp; (My sis has V4 and wife and I have V2.) John L

Ann, Would you please tell us what the lawsuit is about. Thanks, Marleen Van Horne

You are automatically included as a member of the class (which I find objectionable, BTW -- I don't feel the suit has merit). Are you using the same email address currently that you used when you purchased the kits? Have you checked your spam folder? The administrator is supposed to eventually follow up with US Mail if emails bounce. Ann Turner On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:27 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > My sis got an email that she's a member of a class action lawsuit > settlement against 23.&nbsp; My wife and I got no such letter.&nbsp; > Supposedly the 1st date is the date 23 started to accept specimens.&nbsp; > And my sis got her kit way after my wife and I did.&nbsp; My wife and I > could use the discounted kits.&nbsp; I just got a blow off letter from the > company handling the dispersal.&nbsp; Anyone know why some of us are not > included?&nbsp; (My sis has V4 and wife and I have V2.) > John L > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

List Final page. Haplogroups on this page: H1, H1j2a, H2a1, J1c, K1a, K1a-T195C, K1a1b1g, K1a2a, R1, U5a1i1, U5b1c, U5b1c2, U5b2a, V1a Ian www.ianlogan.co.uk ----------------------- MF498721(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V1a 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N G4580A T4639C A4769G C7028T A8860G A8869G A15326G C15904T T16298C G16390A T16519N MF498722(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H1j2a 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N G316A A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G A1821G 2404.1N G3010A C3107N T4733C A4769G T5508N G5741N A7304N A8860G G13708A A15052G A15326G C16291T T16519N MF498723(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a-T195C 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G G6260A C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G T11485C G11719A C11840T A12308G G12372A T13740C C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498724(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a2a 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G G5773A C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11025C T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G G16145A T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498725(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5a1i1 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G C4796T C7028T A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A C12103A A12308G G12372A T13617C C14003T C14766T A14793G A14893G T14971C A15218G A15326G C16192T C16256T C16270T A16399G T16519N MF498726(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G G6260A C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G T11485C G11719A C11840T A12308G G12372A A13153G T13740C C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498727(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b2a 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G C1721T 2404.1N A2706G A2757G C3107N T3197C C3212T A4732G A4769G C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C A13637G T14182C C14766T A15326G T16189C C16192T C16270T G16398A G16474C T16519N MF498728(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H1 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N T477C A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N G3010A C3107N A4769G A8860G A15326G T16519N MF498729(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a-T195C 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16093C T16224C T16311C G16390A T16519N MF498730(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a-T195C 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16093C T16224C T16311C G16390A T16519N MF498731(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup J1c 12-SEP-2017 A73G G185A G228A A263G C295T C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C462T T489C A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G G3010A C3107N T4216C A4769G C7028T A8860G C10040T A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G G13708A C14766T T14798C A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C T16519N MF498732(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H2a1 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G G951A 2404.1N C3107N A8860G A15326G C16354T T16519N MF498733(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a1b1g 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C5583T C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G A11470G G11719A G11914A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14659T C14766T T14798C A15326G A15924G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498734(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b1c 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G A5656G C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C T14182C C14766T T15191C A15326G C16174T T16189C C16192T C16270T T16311C T16519N MF498735(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b1c 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G A5656G G5741A G5745N G5746N A5747N A5748N A5749N A5750N A5751N A5752N G5753N G5754N C5755N G5756N G5757N G5758N A5759N G5760N A5761N C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C T14182C C14766T T15191C A15326G C16174T T16189C C16192T C16270T T16311C T16519N MF498736(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b1c2 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G A5656G C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C T14182C C14766T T15191C A15326G C16174T T16189C C16192T C16270T T16311C T16519N MF498737(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup R1 12-SEP-2017 A73G A189G A263G C295A C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1391C A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3360G A4026G A4769G A4917G A5378G C5586T A5823G C6557T T6671C C7028T A7424G T7547C T8388C A8860G A8887G A10658G A10825G G11719A C13948T C14632T C14766T A15326G T15721C T16311C T16519N

List 2nd. page. Haplogroups on this page: H, H1b1, H1e, H41a, HV0, J2b1a, K1a, K1a-T195C, K1a3a, K1a4a1, K2a5, T1a1, T2, T2b33, U4a, U5a1a1-T16362C, U5b2, V7, X2b, X2b-T226C Ian www.ianlogan.co.uk ----------------- MF498691(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T2b33 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A385G A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G G930A A1438G A1530G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4216C A4769G A4917G G5147A C7028T G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C C16266T C16294T T16304C T16519N MF498692(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H1b1 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G T1809C 2404.1N G3010A C3107N A3796G A4769G A8860G A15326G T16189C T16356C T16519N MF498693(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G G16129A T16311C T16519N MF498694(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K2a5 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C324T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G T4561C A4769G G5745N C5755N G5756N G5757N G5758N A5759N G5760N A5761N C5764N C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C T9716C A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T T14208C C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498695(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a4a1 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G G6260A C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G T11485C G11719A C11840T A12308G G12372A A13153G T13740C C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C C16264T T16311C T16519N MF498696(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T2 12-SEP-2017 A73G G207A A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4216C A4769G C4843T A4917G C7028T G8697A A8860G T10463C T11087C A11251G G11719A A11812G G13368A G14040A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C C16294T C16296T T16519N MF498697(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H41a 12-SEP-2017 C262T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N C3107N A4769G G5460A A8860G T10124C A14118G G15617A T16519N MF498698(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H1e 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N G3010A C3107N A4769G G5460A A8860G A15326G T16189C T16519N MF498699(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a3a 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C7028T A7559G A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A A13117G G13928T C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16093C T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498700(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K2a5 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C324T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G G4296N T4561C A4769G T5090N T5091N A5092N T5093N T5508N C7028T A7307N T7579N A8860G G9055A T9698C T9716C G10054N A10055N G10056N T10057N A10058N A10059N T10060N C10067N A10080N T10081N A10082N A10083N T10084N C10085N A10086N A10097N G10098N C10099N C10100N T10101N T10102N A10103N C10104N T10105N A10106N C10107N T10108N C10475N C10476N T10477N C10478N A10479N T10480N T10481N T10482N A10483N C10484N A10485N T10486N A10487N A10488N A10489N A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T T14208C C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498701(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup J2b1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T T152C A263G C295T C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N T489C A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4216C A4769G C5633T C7028T C7476T A8860G G10172A A10398G A11251G G11719A A12397G A12612G G13708A C14766T G15257A A15326G C15452A G15812A C16069T T16126C C16193T C16278T T16519N MF498702(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T1a1 12-SEP-2017 A73G T152C T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4216C A4769G A4917G C7028T G8697A A8860G T9899C T10463C A11251G G11719A C12633A G13368A C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C A16163G C16186T T16189C C16294T T16519N MF498703(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup HV0 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G A1842G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3565G A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G T16172C T16298C T16519N MF498704(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V7 12-SEP-2017 T72C A93G A214N A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3639G G4580A A4769G T5087N A5088N T5089N A5505N T5506N C5507N T5508N T5509N A5510N T5511N A5512N C7028T G7444A A7552N A7553N G7554N T7555N T7556N A7557N G7565N A8860G A10004N A10005N A10006N T10007N A10008N G10009N T10010N A10011N C10012N C10013N T10077N T10078N A10079N A10080N T10081N G10098N C10099N C10100N T10101N T10102N A10103N C10473N A10487N A15326G C15904T A15924G T16298C T16519N MF498705(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U4a 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N G499A A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4646C T4688C A4769G T4907C T5999C A6047G C7028T C8818T A8860G C11332T A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C T16356C T16519N MF498706(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K2a5 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C324T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G T4561C A4769G C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C T9716C A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T T14208C C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498707(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5a1a1-T16362C 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G T1700C 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G T5495C C7028T A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C C14766T A14793G A15218G A15326G A15924G T16154C C16256T C16270T T16362C A16399G T16519N MF498708(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V7 12-SEP-2017 T72C A93G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3639G G4580A A4769G C7028T G7444A A8860G A15326G C15904T A15924G T16298C T16519N MF498709(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b2 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A896G A1438G C1721T 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4732G A4769G C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C A13637G T14182C C14766T A15326G T15511C C16192T T16311C T16519N MF498710(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a-T195C 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C7028T T8400C A8521G A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16093C C16214A T16224C T16311C C16354T T16519N MF498711(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N G3010A C3107N A4769G A8860G A15326G C16270T T16519N MF498712(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A3547G A4769G C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A A13117G G13708A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498713(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup X2b 12-SEP-2017 A73G A153G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G G1719A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4769G T6221C C6371T C7028T C8393T A8860G G11719A C12705T G13708A A13966G T14470C C14766T A15326G G15927A T16093C C16179T T16189C C16223T C16278T T16362C T16519N MF498714(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup X2b 12-SEP-2017 A73G A153G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G G1719A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4769G T6221C C6371T C7028T C8393T A8860G G11719A C12705T G13708A A13966G T14470C C14766T A15326G G15927A T16093C C16179T T16189C C16223T C16278T T16362C T16519N MF498715(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup X2b-T226C 12-SEP-2017 A73G A153G T195C G225A T226C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G G1719A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4769G T6221C C6371T C7028T C8393T A8860G G11719A C12705T G13708A A13966G T14470C C14766T A15326G G15927A T16189C C16223T C16278T T16519N MF498716(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V7 12-SEP-2017 T72C A93G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3639G G4580A A4769G C7028T G7444A A8860G A15326G C15904T A15924G T16298C T16519N MF498717(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup X2b-T226C 12-SEP-2017 A73G A153G T195C G225A T226C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G G1719A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4769G T6221C C6371T C7028T C8393T A8860G G11719A C12705T G13708A A13966G T14470C C14766T A15326G G15927A T16189C C16223T C16278T T16519N MF498718(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N C3107N A4769G A8860G G11719A A15326G T16093C G16129A A16316G T16519N MF498719(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A3547G A4769G C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A A13117G G13708A C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498720(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G G6260A C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G T11485C G11719A C11840T A12308G G12372A A13153G T13740C C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16224C T16311C T16519N

List A very special set of mtDNA sequences has appeared on the GenBank database. The sequences come from German-Neolithic-remains that predates the predominence of the HV-Haplogroups in Europe. The sequences accompany a paper with the title: 'Female exogamy and gene pool diversification at the transition from the Final Neolithic to the Early Bronze Age in central Europe' Knipper C., et al. PNAS 2017 114 (38) 10083-10088    -  Abstract given below. The sequences belong to the different European groups HV, JT, UK, R & X ; and shows that many labelled subhaplogroups have existed for several thousands of years. Haplogroups on this 1st. page are: H, H2a1, H4a1a1a, H13a2b2a, H15a1, H23, J1c2, J1c3g, K1a1b1g. T2c1d, T2f8a, U4a1b, U4d3, U5a1a1, U5b2b, U5a2b3, U5b2b3a, V On the 2nd. page are: H, H1b1, H1e, H41a, HV0, J2b1a, K1a, K1a-T195C, K1a3a, K1a4a1, K2a5, T1a1, T2, T2b33, U4a, U5a1a1-T16362C, U5b2, V7, X2b, X2b-T226C On the 3rd. page are: H1, H1j2a, H2a1, J1c, K1a, K1a-T195C, K1a1b1g, K1a2a, R1, U5a1i1, U5b1c, U5b1c2, U5b2a, V1a As usual I have added the sequences to my 'Checker' program (allowing for the C3107N problem) to ensure correct transcription of the sequences. There are 3 sequences that are too incomplete to allow for processing. Ian www.ianlogan.co.uk ----------------------------------- Abstract Human mobility has been vigorously debated as a key factor for the spread of bronze technology and profound changes in burial practices as well as material culture in central Europe at the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age. However, the relevance of individual residential changes and their importance among specific age and sex groups are still poorly understood. Here, we present ancient DNA analysis, stable isotope data of oxygen, and radiogenic isotope ratios of strontium for 84 radiocarbon-dated skeletons from seven archaeological sites of the Late Neolithic Bell Beaker Complex and the Early Bronze Age from the Lech River valley in southern Bavaria, Germany. Complete mitochondrial genomes documented a diversification of maternal lineages over time. The isotope ratios disclosed the majority of the females to be nonlocal, while this is the case for only a few males and subadults. Most nonlocal females arrived in the study area as adults, but we do not detect their offspring among the sampled individuals. The striking patterns of patrilocality and female exogamy prevailed over at least 800 y between about 2500 and 1700 BC. The persisting residential rules and even a direct kinship relation across the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age add to the archaeological evidence of continuing traditions from the Bell Beaker Complex to the Early Bronze Age. The results also attest to female mobility as a driving force for regional and supraregional communication and exchange at the dawn of the European metal ages. ---------------------- MF498661(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H23 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G A1555G 2404.1N C3107N A4769G A8860G C10211T A15326G T16519N MF498662(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U4a1b 12-SEP-2017 A73G T152C T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N G499A A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A745G A750G A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N C3204T T4646C A4769G T5999C A6047G C7028T C8818T A8860G C11332T A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A A12937G C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C C16134T T16356C T16519N MF498663(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H4a1a1a 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N C3107N C3992T A4024G A4769G T5004C G8269A A8860G G9123A A10044G C13545T C14365T A14582G A15326G T16519N MF498665(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T2c1d 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C T152C A189G A263G T279C C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N C310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T4216C A4769G A4917G C5187T G5753N G5756N G5757N G5758N A5759N G5760N A5761N A5762N C5766N C5767N G6261A C7028T C7873T G8697A A8860G T10463C C10475N C10822T A11251G G11719A A11812G A12358G G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C C16292T C16294T T16519N MF498666(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H15a1 12-SEP-2017 T55C T57C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N C3107N A4769G T6253C A8860G T11410C C14953T A15326G T16519N MF498667(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H2a1 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G G951A 2404.1N C3107N A5504N A5505N T5506N C5507N T5508N T5509N A5510N T5511N A5512N G5513N A5514N A5515N A5516N T5517N T5518N T5519N A5520N A6714C T7302N T7303N A7304N A7305N T7306N A7307N A7308N T7309N T7310N T7311N T7312N C7313N A7314N T7315N G7316N A7317N T7318N A8860G A8918G A10489N C10497N A15326G C16354T T16519N MF498668(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup J1c2 12-SEP-2017 A73G G185A A188G G228A A263G C295T C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C462T T489C A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G G3010A C3107N T4216C A4769G C7028T A8860G C8922T A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G G13708A C14766T T14798C A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C T16519N MF498670(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T2c1d 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C T152C A189G A263G T279C C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G T2744N C3107N T4216C G4292N G4298N A4769G A4917G C5187T A5505N T5506N C5507N T5508N T5509N A5510N T5511N A5512N G5513N A5514N A5515N A5516N T5517N T5518N T5519N A5520N G5521N G5522N T5523N T5524N A5525N C5739N C5740N G5741N C5742N C5743N G5744N G5745N A5762N G5763N G5780N C5825N G6261A C7028T G7293N T7545N T7546N T7547N G7548N T7549N C7550N A7551N A7552N A7553N G7554N T7555N T7556N A7557N A7558N A7559N T7560N T7561N A7562N T7563N A7564N G7565N G7566N C7567N T7568N A7569N A7570N A7571N T7572N C7573N C7574N T7575N A7576N T7577N A7578N T7579N C7873T G8697A A8860G T10463C C10822T A11251G G11719A A11812G A12358G G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C C16292T C16294T T16519N MF498671(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a1b1g 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C5583T C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G A11470G G11719A G11914A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14659T C14766T T14798C A15326G A15924G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498673(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H 12-SEP-2017 C151T C198T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N C3107N A4769G A8860G A15326G T16519N MF498674(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup K1a1b1g 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C497T A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3480G A4769G C5583T C7028T A8860G G9055A T9698C A10398G A10550G T11299C A11467G A11470G G11719A G11914A A12308G G12372A C14167T C14659T C14766T T14798C A15326G A15924G T16224C T16311C T16519N MF498675(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H13a2b2a 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G C2259T 2404.1N C3107N A4769G A8860G T10463C C13575T T13762G C14872T A15326G T15713G T16519N MF498676(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H13a2b2a 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G C2259T 2404.1N C3107N A4769G A8860G T10463C C13575T T13762G C14872T A15326G T15713G T16519N MF498677(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N G4580A A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G C15904T T16298C T16519N MF498678(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N G4580A A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G C15904T T16298C T16519N MF498679(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup V 12-SEP-2017 T72C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A4301N A4302N T4303N G4580A A4769G A5084N A5085N T5087N A5088N T5089N T5090N A5747N A5748N A5749N A5750N A5751N A5752N G5753N C7028T T7302N T7303N A7304N A7305N T7306N A7307N A7308N T7309N T7310N T7311N T7312N C7313N A7314N T7315N G7316N A7317N T7318N T7319N T7320N G7321N A7322N G7323N A7324N A7325N G7326N C7327N C7328N T7329N T7330N A7532N C7534N A7535N T7536N T7537N T7538N C7539N A7540N T7541N A7542N A7543N C7544N T7545N T7546N T7547N G7548N T7549N C7550N A7551N A7552N A7553N G7554N T7555N T7556N A7557N A7558N A7559N T7560N T7561N A7562N T7563N A7564N G7565N A8860G C10475N C10476N T10477N C10478N A10479N T10480N T10481N T10482N A10483N C10484N A10485N T10486N A10487N A10488N A10489N T10490N A10491N T10492N T10493N T11370N A15326G C15904T T16298C T16519N MF498680(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b2b3a 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G T279C C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G C1721T 2404.1N A2706G A2755G C3107N T3197C T3338C A4769G G5261A C7028T A7768G A8860G G9477A A11467G A11653G G11719A A12308G G12372A A12634G T13617C A13630G A13637G T14182C C14766T A15326G T15905C T16224C A16265C C16270T T16311C T16519N MF498681(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H 12-SEP-2017 A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N G3010A C3107N A4769G A8860G T10410C A15326G C16193T T16519N MF498682(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5a2b3 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G C7028T A8860G G9477A G9548A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C C14684T C14766T A14793G A15326G C16168T C16192T C16256T C16270T T16304C T16519N G16526A MF498683(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5a2b3 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C C3442N C3920T C3932N A4769G G5756N C6029N C7028T A8860G G9477A G9548A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C C14684T C14766T A14793G A15326G C16168T C16192T C16256T C16270T T16304C T16519N G16526A MF498684(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup T2f8a 12-SEP-2017 A73G T146C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N G709A A750G A1438G G1888A 2404.1N A2706G C3107N A3243G T4216C A4769G A4917G A5322C C7028T C8270T C8278G G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G13368A A14118G A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C T16189C C16294T C16296T T16519N MF498685(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U4d3 12-SEP-2017 A73G T195C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N G499A A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 573.1C T629C A750G A1438G A1811G 2405.1C A2706G C3107N T4646C A4769G T5999C A6047G C7028T A8860G C11332T A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T14577C C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C T16189C T16356C T16519N MF498686(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5a1a1 12-SEP-2017 A73G A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G T1700C 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G T5495C C7028T T8705C A8860G G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C C14766T A14793G A15218G A15326G A15924G C16256T C16270T A16399G T16519N MF498687(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b2b 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G C1721T 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G C7028T G7419A A7768G A8860G G9477A A10750G A11467G A11653G G11719A A12308G G12372A A12634G T13617C A13630G A13637G T14182C C14766T A15326G T16189C G16213A C16270T T16519N MF498688(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup U5b2b 12-SEP-2017 A73G C150T A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G C1721T 2404.1N A2706G C3107N T3197C A4769G C7028T G7419A A7768G A8860G G9477A A10750G A11467G A11653G G11719A A12308G G12372A A12634G T13617C A13630G A13637G T14182C C14766T A15326G T16189C G16213A C16270T T16519N MF498689(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup J1c3g 12-SEP-2017 A73G G185A G228A A263G C295T C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N C462T T489C A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N 567.1N A750G A1438G 2404.1N A2706G G3010A C3107N T4216C A4769G C7028T C7313N A8860G G9755A A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G G13708A C13934T C14766T T14798C A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C T16519N MF498690(Germany-ancient) Knipper Haplogroup H2a1 12-SEP-2017 T152C A263G C303N C304N C305N C306N C307N C308N C309N T310N C311N C312N C313N C314N C315N A515N C516N A517N C518N A519N C520N A521N C522N C568N 573.1C A750G G951A 2404.1N C3107N C6173T A8860G T13095C A15326G C16354T T16519N

Sam, I think you are confusing two different things, the generation estimate that you see for autosomal DNA on gedmatch, and the genetic distance reported for a Y-DNA test. A generation number of 4.0 on gedmatch would be a reasonably close match (around 3rd cousin), but a distance of 4 differences on a 37 marker Y-DNA test is a much more distant relationship. The person you found on FTDNA has a genetic distance of 4 on a 37-marker Y_DNA test, and doesn't show any match at all on the autosomal test. So I think Letha is correct - even if she did upload at gedmatch, it is very unlikely that you would see anything useful, the relationship is probably too distant for you to see a gedmatch autosomal match at all. Summary: genetic distance on a Y-DNA test is not the distance in generations. Paul Rakow > > From: Sam Sloan <[email protected]> > Subject: [DNA] Problems with Those Reluctant or Unwilling to Join > Gedmatch > > ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I?m a cousin of Michael?s and manage > his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and are > not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder > testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because > your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the > likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is > only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in > assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn?t pay attention to any that > have less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a > common ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic > distance range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty > finding a DNA match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no > matches there. Even your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup > R-M198 and Michael is from > haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined > any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the > Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I > don?t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from > Maryland and your surname isn?t Bishop. > ===== > > MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the > person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on > it for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody > 2.0 > for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. If > I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. >

Sam, Sometimes we forget that it was just as hard to get responses from people using just surnames. Or they would want all our information and never share and would disappear. Janet On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Sam Sloan <[email protected]> wrote: > I am having a debate regarding gedmatch. I think many members of this group > have had similar problems. > > The problem starts because a close personal friend of mine is adopted. He > was born in Singapore. His adoption records show his father was a British > military officer stationed in Singapore. His mother was a Filipina, > probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > As he is a friend and knows nothing about DNA testing I paid for his Family > Finder test. > > The results came back with a lot of Philippines matches but very few > British matches. > > A friend of his convinced him to take the Y-DNA37 test. > > The result just came back showing only one Y-DNA37 match who is also on > Family Finder. > > I fear his money will be wasted on the Y-DNA37 test so I wrote to his one > match asking this person to join gedmatch. > > This resulted in a heated exchange. This person said he would not join > gedmatch. This person wrote back: “In the past, I have had opportunities to > consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are not > inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal privacy.” > > I replied: “If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not > have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined > FTDNA.” > > He replied back that he is reporting me and blocking me. > > I admit that perhaps I was too strident and I should have been more polite, > but this is the result of frustration with people who are pigheaded and > stupid. > > What concerns me is she says she is in contact with people who are high > authorities on DNA testing so this leads me to wonder whether there are > some high people in the background who are telling people not to join > gedmatch because of “matters of ethics and personal privacy.” > > Here is the email exchange: > > ME: I see you are a Y-DNA relative of Arnout. You are also in Family > Finder. > > Do you have a gedmatch number. If you do, can you provide it so we can > calculate how we are related. > > Arnout is on Family Tree DNA at 431192 > > ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I’m a cousin of Michael’s and manage > his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and are > not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder > testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because > your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the > likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is > only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in > assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn’t pay attention to any that have > less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a common > ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic distance > range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty finding a DNA > match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no matches there. Even > your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup R-M198 and Michael is from > haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined > any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the > Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I > don’t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from > Maryland and your surname isn’t Bishop. > > MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the > person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on it > for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody 2.0 > for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. If > I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. > > Arnout was adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records only > show that his father was British military stationed in Singapore and his > mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > Arnout just got his Y-DNA results back an you are his only link that is > also on Family Finder. > > We would greatly appreciate it if you would join gedmatch because you are > his only chance of finding his father through Y-DNA testing. > All serious DNA genealogy researchers use gedmatch because gedmatch > combines results from all of the DNA testing services and puts them in one > place so you can compare them all against each other. > HER ANSWER: Thank you again for your letter. The information that I gave > you about genetic distance came to me directly from a DNA expert at FTDNA > and an anthropologist/college professor friend of mine whose work with the > ancient Inca civilizations is well known. I can assure you that both are > “serious researchers.” > > In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in > other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It > is a matter of ethics and personal privacy. > > MY REPLY: I do not care how great and famous your "experts" are, if you do > not use gedmatch you will never find your links to your relatives. > > There are three DNA testing discussion groups. > [email protected] > [email protected] > [email protected] > > Every regular member to each of these groups is on gedmatch because they > all know what I am trying to tell you that you need gedmatch to find your > relatives through chromosome matching. > > If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a > DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA. > > HER ANSWER: I am reporting your continued harrassment to FTDNA and blocking > your emails. You have been given my answer. Live with it. > > > > I admit that I went too far but I did it because this was his ONLY MATCH. > > I think group members here have had similar experienced. > > Sam Sloan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sam, I taught communication courses in higher ed for 10 years and am certain from your comments that you used the wrong communication medium (email) as a form of interpersonal communication with someone you don’t know about a topic (DNA) that is or can be a sensitive subject for many. You were more than “strident,” your “heated exchange” appears to be insensitive to the member’s personal values, forceful in your language tone, and likely perceived as arrogant and rude. Did you consider a phone conversation? You and Letha would have been able to listen to each other’s nonverbal cues, i.e., tone, rate of delivery, pauses, pitch, volume, etc., and more likely to modulate you responses. You would have had more meaning in the conversation needed to empathize with her and opportunities to offer her your appreciation through active listening and feedback. Please consider offering Letha an apology then move on to another more effective strategy. GEDmatch is an excellent tool but it’s certainly not the only tool nor is it an absolute. I know how you feel and I’m sure many others on this list feel the same. However, respect the privacy of all and do no harm to those not wishing to explore their ancestry. Respectfully, Gregory > On Sep 23, 2017, at 5:42 AM, Sam Sloan <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am having a debate regarding gedmatch. I think many members of this group > have had similar problems. > > The problem starts because a close personal friend of mine is adopted. He > was born in Singapore. His adoption records show his father was a British > military officer stationed in Singapore. His mother was a Filipina, > probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > As he is a friend and knows nothing about DNA testing I paid for his Family > Finder test. > > The results came back with a lot of Philippines matches but very few > British matches. > > A friend of his convinced him to take the Y-DNA37 test. > > The result just came back showing only one Y-DNA37 match who is also on > Family Finder. > > I fear his money will be wasted on the Y-DNA37 test so I wrote to his one > match asking this person to join gedmatch. > > This resulted in a heated exchange. This person said he would not join > gedmatch. This person wrote back: “In the past, I have had opportunities to > consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are not > inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal privacy.” > > I replied: “If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not > have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined > FTDNA.” > > He replied back that he is reporting me and blocking me. > > I admit that perhaps I was too strident and I should have been more polite, > but this is the result of frustration with people who are pigheaded and > stupid. > > What concerns me is she says she is in contact with people who are high > authorities on DNA testing so this leads me to wonder whether there are > some high people in the background who are telling people not to join > gedmatch because of “matters of ethics and personal privacy.” > > Here is the email exchange: > > ME: I see you are a Y-DNA relative of Arnout. You are also in Family Finder. > > Do you have a gedmatch number. If you do, can you provide it so we can > calculate how we are related. > > Arnout is on Family Tree DNA at 431192 > > ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I’m a cousin of Michael’s and manage > his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and are > not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder > testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because > your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the > likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is > only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in > assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn’t pay attention to any that have > less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a common > ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic distance > range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty finding a DNA > match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no matches there. Even > your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup R-M198 and Michael is from > haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined > any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the > Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I > don’t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from > Maryland and your surname isn’t Bishop. > > MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the > person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on it > for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody 2.0 > for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. If > I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. > > Arnout was adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records only > show that his father was British military stationed in Singapore and his > mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > Arnout just got his Y-DNA results back an you are his only link that is > also on Family Finder. > > We would greatly appreciate it if you would join gedmatch because you are > his only chance of finding his father through Y-DNA testing. > All serious DNA genealogy researchers use gedmatch because gedmatch > combines results from all of the DNA testing services and puts them in one > place so you can compare them all against each other. > HER ANSWER: Thank you again for your letter. The information that I gave > you about genetic distance came to me directly from a DNA expert at FTDNA > and an anthropologist/college professor friend of mine whose work with the > ancient Inca civilizations is well known. I can assure you that both are > “serious researchers.” > > In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in > other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It > is a matter of ethics and personal privacy. > > MY REPLY: I do not care how great and famous your "experts" are, if you do > not use gedmatch you will never find your links to your relatives. > > There are three DNA testing discussion groups. > [email protected] > [email protected] > [email protected] > > Every regular member to each of these groups is on gedmatch because they > all know what I am trying to tell you that you need gedmatch to find your > relatives through chromosome matching. > > If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a > DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA. > > HER ANSWER: I am reporting your continued harrassment to FTDNA and blocking > your emails. You have been given my answer. Live with it. > > > > I admit that I went too far but I did it because this was his ONLY MATCH. > > I think group members here have had similar experienced. > > Sam Sloan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sam, it sounds as though you've run into a brick wall that many adoptees (and those trying to help them) do. I seem to recall that FTDNA was sued because a customer's kit number was somehow extrapolated from their GEDMatch user ID, which may be why some people remain leery of them. Why in this case though do you feel the need for GEDMatch (as opposed to the FTDNA tools)? This person is a Family Finder match, correct? That means that he is a pretty close match. Pity that he himself cannot be reached. in any event, rest assured that the odds are good that this mystery will be solved. There is a group of "search angels" in a Facebook group that specialize in this very thing (CeCe Moore and DNA Detectives). Other family members will test, and there is a tremendous amount of information online now e.g. Peoplefinders.com. Also, she has given you some clues with the Bishop and Maryland projects... perhaps Arnout can join and those admins can be of assistance. Your frustration was palpable but understandable, and it is his birthright, I believe, to find out who he is. Best regards, Stephanie Admin, Cobb DNA project Member #5587, Guild of One Name Studies On Saturday, September 23, 2017, Sam Sloan <[email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > I neglected to mention that his gedmatch number is T150765 > You can look him up and understand the problem. > Virtually all his top matched are Philippinos even though many have > European names. I have already written them. > However, his Y-DNA37 shows his only Y-DNA match to be British confirming > his belief that his father was British. > I am concerned by the fact that the person answering me is obviously > experienced and not a beginner yet refuses to join gedmatch. > Sam Sloan > > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Sam Sloan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I am having a debate regarding gedmatch. I think many members of this > > group have had similar problems. > > > > The problem starts because a close personal friend of mine is adopted. He > > was born in Singapore. His adoption records show his father was a British > > military officer stationed in Singapore. His mother was a Filipina, > > probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > > > As he is a friend and knows nothing about DNA testing I paid for his > > Family Finder test. > > > > The results came back with a lot of Philippines matches but very few > > British matches. > > > > A friend of his convinced him to take the Y-DNA37 test. > > > > The result just came back showing only one Y-DNA37 match who is also on > > Family Finder. > > > > I fear his money will be wasted on the Y-DNA37 test so I wrote to his one > > match asking this person to join gedmatch. > > > > This resulted in a heated exchange. This person said he would not join > > gedmatch. This person wrote back: “In the past, I have had opportunities > to > > consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are > not > > inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal > privacy.” > > > > I replied: “If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not > > have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined > > FTDNA.” > > > > He replied back that he is reporting me and blocking me. > > > > I admit that perhaps I was too strident and I should have been more > > polite, but this is the result of frustration with people who are > pigheaded > > and stupid. > > > > What concerns me is she says she is in contact with people who are high > > authorities on DNA testing so this leads me to wonder whether there are > > some high people in the background who are telling people not to join > > gedmatch because of “matters of ethics and personal privacy.” > > > > Here is the email exchange: > > > > ME: I see you are a Y-DNA relative of Arnout. You are also in Family > > Finder. > > > > Do you have a gedmatch number. If you do, can you provide it so we can > > calculate how we are related. > > > > Arnout is on Family Tree DNA at 431192 > > > > ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I’m a cousin of Michael’s and manage > > his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and > are > > not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder > > testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because > > your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the > > likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is > > only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in > > assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn’t pay attention to any that > have > > less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a common > > ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic distance > > range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty finding a > DNA > > match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no matches there. > Even > > your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup R-M198 and Michael is > from > > haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined > > any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the > > Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I > > don’t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from > > Maryland and your surname isn’t Bishop. > > > > MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the > > person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on > it > > for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody 2.0 > > for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. > If > > I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. > > > > Arnout was adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records only > > show that his father was British military stationed in Singapore and his > > mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > > > Arnout just got his Y-DNA results back an you are his only link that is > > also on Family Finder. > > > > We would greatly appreciate it if you would join gedmatch because you are > > his only chance of finding his father through Y-DNA testing. > > All serious DNA genealogy researchers use gedmatch because gedmatch > > combines results from all of the DNA testing services and puts them in > one > > place so you can compare them all against each other. > > HER ANSWER: Thank you again for your letter. The information that I gave > > you about genetic distance came to me directly from a DNA expert at FTDNA > > and an anthropologist/college professor friend of mine whose work with > the > > ancient Inca civilizations is well known. I can assure you that both are > > “serious researchers.” > > > > In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in > > other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It > > is a matter of ethics and personal privacy. > > > > MY REPLY: I do not care how great and famous your "experts" are, if you > do > > not use gedmatch you will never find your links to your relatives. > > > > There are three DNA testing discussion groups. > > [email protected] > > [email protected] > > [email protected] > > > > Every regular member to each of these groups is on gedmatch because they > > all know what I am trying to tell you that you need gedmatch to find your > > relatives through chromosome matching. > > > > If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a > > DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA. > > > > HER ANSWER: I am reporting your continued harrassment to FTDNA and > > blocking your emails. You have been given my answer. Live with it. > > > > > > > > I admit that I went too far but I did it because this was his ONLY MATCH. > > > > I think group members here have had similar experienced. > > > > Sam Sloan > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I neglected to mention that his gedmatch number is T150765 You can look him up and understand the problem. Virtually all his top matched are Philippinos even though many have European names. I have already written them. However, his Y-DNA37 shows his only Y-DNA match to be British confirming his belief that his father was British. I am concerned by the fact that the person answering me is obviously experienced and not a beginner yet refuses to join gedmatch. Sam Sloan On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Sam Sloan <[email protected]> wrote: > I am having a debate regarding gedmatch. I think many members of this > group have had similar problems. > > The problem starts because a close personal friend of mine is adopted. He > was born in Singapore. His adoption records show his father was a British > military officer stationed in Singapore. His mother was a Filipina, > probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > As he is a friend and knows nothing about DNA testing I paid for his > Family Finder test. > > The results came back with a lot of Philippines matches but very few > British matches. > > A friend of his convinced him to take the Y-DNA37 test. > > The result just came back showing only one Y-DNA37 match who is also on > Family Finder. > > I fear his money will be wasted on the Y-DNA37 test so I wrote to his one > match asking this person to join gedmatch. > > This resulted in a heated exchange. This person said he would not join > gedmatch. This person wrote back: “In the past, I have had opportunities to > consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are not > inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal privacy.” > > I replied: “If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not > have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined > FTDNA.” > > He replied back that he is reporting me and blocking me. > > I admit that perhaps I was too strident and I should have been more > polite, but this is the result of frustration with people who are pigheaded > and stupid. > > What concerns me is she says she is in contact with people who are high > authorities on DNA testing so this leads me to wonder whether there are > some high people in the background who are telling people not to join > gedmatch because of “matters of ethics and personal privacy.” > > Here is the email exchange: > > ME: I see you are a Y-DNA relative of Arnout. You are also in Family > Finder. > > Do you have a gedmatch number. If you do, can you provide it so we can > calculate how we are related. > > Arnout is on Family Tree DNA at 431192 > > ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I’m a cousin of Michael’s and manage > his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and are > not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder > testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because > your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the > likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is > only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in > assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn’t pay attention to any that have > less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a common > ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic distance > range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty finding a DNA > match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no matches there. Even > your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup R-M198 and Michael is from > haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined > any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the > Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I > don’t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from > Maryland and your surname isn’t Bishop. > > MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the > person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on it > for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody 2.0 > for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. If > I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. > > Arnout was adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records only > show that his father was British military stationed in Singapore and his > mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. > > Arnout just got his Y-DNA results back an you are his only link that is > also on Family Finder. > > We would greatly appreciate it if you would join gedmatch because you are > his only chance of finding his father through Y-DNA testing. > All serious DNA genealogy researchers use gedmatch because gedmatch > combines results from all of the DNA testing services and puts them in one > place so you can compare them all against each other. > HER ANSWER: Thank you again for your letter. The information that I gave > you about genetic distance came to me directly from a DNA expert at FTDNA > and an anthropologist/college professor friend of mine whose work with the > ancient Inca civilizations is well known. I can assure you that both are > “serious researchers.” > > In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in > other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It > is a matter of ethics and personal privacy. > > MY REPLY: I do not care how great and famous your "experts" are, if you do > not use gedmatch you will never find your links to your relatives. > > There are three DNA testing discussion groups. > [email protected] > [email protected] > [email protected] > > Every regular member to each of these groups is on gedmatch because they > all know what I am trying to tell you that you need gedmatch to find your > relatives through chromosome matching. > > If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a > DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA. > > HER ANSWER: I am reporting your continued harrassment to FTDNA and > blocking your emails. You have been given my answer. Live with it. > > > > I admit that I went too far but I did it because this was his ONLY MATCH. > > I think group members here have had similar experienced. > > Sam Sloan >

I am having a debate regarding gedmatch. I think many members of this group have had similar problems. The problem starts because a close personal friend of mine is adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records show his father was a British military officer stationed in Singapore. His mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. As he is a friend and knows nothing about DNA testing I paid for his Family Finder test. The results came back with a lot of Philippines matches but very few British matches. A friend of his convinced him to take the Y-DNA37 test. The result just came back showing only one Y-DNA37 match who is also on Family Finder. I fear his money will be wasted on the Y-DNA37 test so I wrote to his one match asking this person to join gedmatch. This resulted in a heated exchange. This person said he would not join gedmatch. This person wrote back: “In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal privacy.” I replied: “If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA.” He replied back that he is reporting me and blocking me. I admit that perhaps I was too strident and I should have been more polite, but this is the result of frustration with people who are pigheaded and stupid. What concerns me is she says she is in contact with people who are high authorities on DNA testing so this leads me to wonder whether there are some high people in the background who are telling people not to join gedmatch because of “matters of ethics and personal privacy.” Here is the email exchange: ME: I see you are a Y-DNA relative of Arnout. You are also in Family Finder. Do you have a gedmatch number. If you do, can you provide it so we can calculate how we are related. Arnout is on Family Tree DNA at 431192 ANSWER: My name is Letha Chunn, and I’m a cousin of Michael’s and manage his DNA testing. No, we do not have any connection with GedMatch, and are not likely to. We also show no match to Arnout in our Family Finder testing. His name simply does not exist there. That is likely because your Y-DNA match shows a genetic distance of 4. In other words, the likelihood of a common ancestor for you and Michael at 4 generations is only 11.7%. At 8 generations, it is only 46.37%. The rule of thumb in assessing Y-DNA matches is that one doesn’t pay attention to any that have less than a genetic distance of two because you will never find a common ancestor. The matches to pursue are those in the 0-2 genetic distance range. That having been said, we are having great difficulty finding a DNA match on Y-DNA in the 0-2 range. In fact, we have no matches there. Even your match shows that Arnout is from haplogroup R-M198 and Michael is from haplogroup R-M512. Our surnames are different as well. Have you joined any groups? Our Bishop line is from Maryland, and we have Michael in the Maryland and Bishop Projects. His DNA is listed on those two sites. I don’t know if you would qualify for membership if your family is not from Maryland and your surname isn’t Bishop. MY REPLY: I disagree. I can almost always find the link as long as the person is 4.0 or closer away. This is probably because I have working on it for a long time and I have a full family tree. I do not have anybody 2.0 for less except for close relatives where I paid for them to be tested. If I took your standard I would never have gotten off the ground. Arnout was adopted. He was born in Singapore. His adoption records only show that his father was British military stationed in Singapore and his mother was a Filipina, probably a maid or a domestic servant. Arnout just got his Y-DNA results back an you are his only link that is also on Family Finder. We would greatly appreciate it if you would join gedmatch because you are his only chance of finding his father through Y-DNA testing. All serious DNA genealogy researchers use gedmatch because gedmatch combines results from all of the DNA testing services and puts them in one place so you can compare them all against each other. HER ANSWER: Thank you again for your letter. The information that I gave you about genetic distance came to me directly from a DNA expert at FTDNA and an anthropologist/college professor friend of mine whose work with the ancient Inca civilizations is well known. I can assure you that both are “serious researchers.” In the past, I have had opportunities to consider and reject GEDmatch in other cases, and am afraid that we are not inclined to reconsider it. It is a matter of ethics and personal privacy. MY REPLY: I do not care how great and famous your "experts" are, if you do not use gedmatch you will never find your links to your relatives. There are three DNA testing discussion groups. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Every regular member to each of these groups is on gedmatch because they all know what I am trying to tell you that you need gedmatch to find your relatives through chromosome matching. If you are so concerned about "privacy" then you should not have taken a DNA test in the first place and you should not have joined FTDNA. HER ANSWER: I am reporting your continued harrassment to FTDNA and blocking your emails. You have been given my answer. Live with it. I admit that I went too far but I did it because this was his ONLY MATCH. I think group members here have had similar experienced. Sam Sloan