Saybrook Land Records, Book 1, Pages 101-107, & 117-118 are now on line thanks to the transcribing efforts of Janece Streig. If anyone has access to the missing pages of 108-116 & 119-120 and can provide electronic scans or hard copies, please let me know. Jane Devlin Lake Orion, MI [email protected] DUNHAM - WILCOX - TROTT - KIRK website Over 2000 data files for CT, MA, RI, NJ, NY & MI http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jdevlin/

'..The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy" 3rd edition. You would no doubt find the surrounding material about the subject of probate, and probate courts interesting as well...' Thank you. ec

There are several citations re: dower right, administration, etc. in the excellent book on genealogy by Val Greenwood, The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy" 3rd edition. You would no doubt find the surrounding material about the subject of probate, and probate courts interesting as well. Carol Boggs

IS THERE SOMEONE WHO COULD LOOK UP THE NAME OF MARY ZION SOULEIMAN'SOLOMON AND GEORGE JOHN SOLOMON IN BETHEL CT CITY DIRECTORIES FOR THE YEARS 1920 TO 1932. IT WOULD BE GREATLY APPREICATED. JOYCE DEBELLE SOLOMON [email protected]

You probably need to ask a lawyer. The dower rights pertain to the typically 1/3 interest a wife had in her husband's property while she was living. In most places, if he sold land etc, she would need to sign away her rights so it could be sold. If you found such a document, the husband probably sold some property at that time. You might be able to find that transaction, and learn more about this woman. http://www.rootsweb.com/~flholmes/300713.doc This page mentions several items peculiar to CT and dowery rights. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights > he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her > husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property ........ > > So Dower Rights could come from the husband. > The Rights in the case I mentioned were given up long before her husband ever > wrote his will. > Do you think that means her dower rights came from another source? I.E. her > father or other member of her family? > EC >

Here is an article by William Dollarhide about Dowry and Dower Rights http://www.genealogybulletin.com/archives/HTML/current70.html Here's another that mentions Connecticut http://www.rootsweb.com/~flholmes/300713.doc If you search at google.com for "dower rights" +connecticut +historical or something similar, you will find that as Ralph says, as time went on each state adopted different laws, so you really need to find out what was in force in CT at the time the documents were drawn up. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Oser" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights > Folks I think we're a little off track. I don't recall the exact distinctions any more, but think what were talking about here is dower rights (for women) not dowery. You can get a general definition of the term if you do an advanced google search with dower and Blacks Law Dictionary. My recollection is that Dower rights are the rights a married woman has in her husband's real estate acquired during their marriage which matures if he predeceases her. Men have a comparable right in his wife's property known as Curtsy. > > To determine exactly what was meant by dower rights in Connecticut at the time the issue first was known, you'd probably have to go to a law library with a good set of old state law reports, and look up cases written around that period in Connecticut. The names of the state law reporters changed over time, so your best bet would be to ask the law librarian where to look. The same would be true about what constituted "real estate" at the time. > > Because both words are easily confused with dowery and curtesy, respectively, it's understandable that both terms cause us trouble. > > It's been more than 30 years since I first learned about both set of rights in law school so please don't rely on my all to human memory. > > I can get the definitions from Blacks if you have trouble finding it for some reason, but you're on your own re. the state reporters. > > Hope this help some. > > Ralph Oser > [email protected] > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Margaret Davis" <[email protected]> > Sent: 10/16/2004 02:58 > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights > > I have a similar situation in my family. In this case, the lady was the second wife of my ggrandfather. They had no children of their own but he had 4 sons by his first wife. His Will bequeathed to her (the second wife) a room in the home, bedding, wood for the winter, food etc. The eldest son was appointed executor of his father's will. Within a few days, he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property although she could live there until her death, as long as she didn't remarry. Margaret in NV > > [email protected] wrote:In the early 18th century--did "Right of Dowery" refer only to property a > woman had received from her father/mother/family? > > Did it always refer to a sort of prize--or bribe--for the groom? > > I had a theory about an ancestress being sort of an 'unwed mother in the > snow', abandoned by her family, but then I found a deed in which she gave up her > Right of Dowery" to the land involved. So I assume that she was probably given > that land by her father when she married. Now I'm not sure why her maiden name > was not mentioned in the record of her marriage. > Any help would be appreciated. > EC >

My guess my previous answer botched it. I'm not sure what is meant by "property." Again it sort of depends on the local usage at the time, because the term is inexact, at best, varies from place to place, and morphs over time. Sorry if that doesn't clear things up, it's a little confusing. But I think you're still confusing the dowery (personal articles a young woman made or was given by her family prior to marriage) with dower rights, where were the unripened rights she gained upon getting married. Again, my recollection is fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the rights were called inchoate rights, that is rights which hadn't matured yet because some event (the death of a woman's husband here) hasn't happened yet. I don't recall if they were enforceable before they matured, but guess probably not. The rights are a function of the marriage, which if ended by means other than death would probably be extinguished. Ordinarily a daughter wouldn't get dower rights from her family. A dowery (bedding, kitchen thingies and the like) yes, for sure, if she and her husband were fortunate. Dower, no. I believe dower rights are part of the package one gets she weds without a pre-nuptial agreement, which ripen on the death of a womans husband. That makes sense if I understand what you're looking into, because -over time- a girl would bring her dowery to a marriage, and once married gain inchoate dower rights, waived or tinkered with after the wedding perhaps, followed by a will which would probably have written assuming the rights of the wife had been waived (unless it had been forgotten). Gotta run, and not sure how much this helps, but drop me a line if things are still murky. I guess I need to add here that this is not legal advice, and we have not entered into an attorney-client relationship, and that you should seek competent legal help to review the situation. Sorry, this has gone into more detail than I'm competent to address, so please don't rely on my recollection. I am not now, nor have I ever been licensed in Ct. I'm just a newbie to this list with family from Ct on both my and my bride's side trying to get the lay of the land. Surely there's a Ct. Attorney with a better background in real property and marital law out there lurking that can correct me where I'm wrong. We know you're out there. Come out with your hands up and nobody will get hurt...... Best, R -----Original Message----- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: 10/16/2004 12:23 To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property ........ So Dower Rights could come from the husband. The Rights in the case I mentioned were given up long before her husband ever wrote his will. Do you think that means her dower rights came from another source? I.E. her father or other member of her family? EC

Folks I think we're a little off track. I don't recall the exact distinctions any more, but think what were talking about here is dower rights (for women) not dowery. You can get a general definition of the term if you do an advanced google search with dower and Blacks Law Dictionary. My recollection is that Dower rights are the rights a married woman has in her husband's real estate acquired during their marriage which matures if he predeceases her. Men have a comparable right in his wife's property known as Curtsy. To determine exactly what was meant by dower rights in Connecticut at the time the issue first was known, you'd probably have to go to a law library with a good set of old state law reports, and look up cases written around that period in Connecticut. The names of the state law reporters changed over time, so your best bet would be to ask the law librarian where to look. The same would be true about what constituted "real estate" at the time. Because both words are easily confused with dowery and curtesy, respectively, it's understandable that both terms cause us trouble. It's been more than 30 years since I first learned about both set of rights in law school so please don't rely on my all to human memory. I can get the definitions from Blacks if you have trouble finding it for some reason, but you're on your own re. the state reporters. Hope this help some. Ralph Oser [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: "Margaret Davis" <[email protected]> Sent: 10/16/2004 02:58 To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights I have a similar situation in my family. In this case, the lady was the second wife of my ggrandfather. They had no children of their own but he had 4 sons by his first wife. His Will bequeathed to her (the second wife) a room in the home, bedding, wood for the winter, food etc. The eldest son was appointed executor of his father's will. Within a few days, he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property although she could live there until her death, as long as she didn't remarry. Margaret in NV [email protected] wrote:In the early 18th century--did "Right of Dowery" refer only to property a woman had received from her father/mother/family? Did it always refer to a sort of prize--or bribe--for the groom? I had a theory about an ancestress being sort of an 'unwed mother in the snow', abandoned by her family, but then I found a deed in which she gave up her Right of Dowery" to the land involved. So I assume that she was probably given that land by her father when she married. Now I'm not sure why her maiden name was not mentioned in the record of her marriage. Any help would be appreciated. EC Humor is a rubber sword - it allows you to make a point without drawing blood. Mary Hirsch --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

Hi Ralph & EC I have a book here - "Searching American Probate Records" by Fran Carter. It has a glossary of terms related to probrate Dower - Land and tenements to which a widow has claim, in her life estate, after the death of her husband, for the support of herself and her children. Usually, one third of the value of all lands which her husband owned. There is no dower in community property states in the United States. Dower Release - An agreement which forfeited a wifes right to any of her deceased husband's land that he had sold to someone else. In some cases a widow is able to reclaim land that her husband had acquired in fee simple and subsequently sold, even some 50 years later, unless the buyer has acquired a dower release from the owner's wife on the deed. Hope this helps, Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Oser" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights > My guess my previous answer botched it. > > I'm not sure what is meant by "property." Again it sort of depends on the local usage at the time, because the term is inexact, at best, varies from place to place, and morphs over time. Sorry if that doesn't clear things up, it's a little confusing. > > But I think you're still confusing the dowery (personal articles a young woman made or was given by her family prior to marriage) with dower rights, where were the unripened rights she gained upon getting married. Again, my recollection is fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the rights were called inchoate rights, that is rights which hadn't matured yet because some event (the death of a woman's husband here) hasn't happened yet. I don't recall if they were enforceable before they matured, but guess probably not. The rights are a function of the marriage, which if ended by means other than death would probably be extinguished. > > Ordinarily a daughter wouldn't get dower rights from her family. A dowery (bedding, kitchen thingies and the like) yes, for sure, if she and her husband were fortunate. Dower, no. I believe dower rights are part of the package one gets she weds without a pre-nuptial agreement, which ripen on the death of a womans husband. That makes sense if I understand what you're looking into, because -over time- a girl would bring her dowery to a marriage, and once married gain inchoate dower rights, waived or tinkered with after the wedding perhaps, followed by a will which would probably have written assuming the rights of the wife had been waived (unless it had been forgotten). > > Gotta run, and not sure how much this helps, but drop me a line if things are still murky. I guess I need to add here that this is not legal advice, and we have not entered into an attorney-client relationship, and that you should seek competent legal help to review the situation. Sorry, this has gone into more detail than I'm competent to address, so please don't rely on my recollection. I am not now, nor have I ever been licensed in Ct. I'm just a newbie to this list with family from Ct on both my and my bride's side trying to get the lay of the land. > > Surely there's a Ct. Attorney with a better background in real property and marital law out there lurking that can correct me where I'm wrong. We know you're out there. Come out with your hands up and nobody will get hurt...... > > Best, > > R > -----Original Message----- > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sent: 10/16/2004 12:23 > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GenCT] Question on Dowery Rights > > > he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her > husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property ........ > > So Dower Rights could come from the husband. > The Rights in the case I mentioned were given up long before her husband ever > wrote his will. > Do you think that means her dower rights came from another source? I.E. her > father or other member of her family? > EC > > > >

he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property ........ So Dower Rights could come from the husband. The Rights in the case I mentioned were given up long before her husband ever wrote his will. Do you think that means her dower rights came from another source? I.E. her father or other member of her family? EC

Dear Colleagues: Our library has developed a family tree chart that you can use. We would be happy to send you a copy (they're free). One side is a family tree chart and the reverse is a family tree chart. These charts are fundamental for to organize your family history. They will save you a lot of time. Just your name and the address where you want us to mail them. Onward, Tom Thomas Jay Kemp, Director Godfrey Memorial Library 134 Newfield Street Middletown, CT 06457-2534 Tel. 860.346.4375 Cell: 860.218.5479 FAX 860.347.9874 [email protected] www.Godfrey.org

I have a similar situation in my family. In this case, the lady was the second wife of my ggrandfather. They had no children of their own but he had 4 sons by his first wife. His Will bequeathed to her (the second wife) a room in the home, bedding, wood for the winter, food etc. The eldest son was appointed executor of his father's will. Within a few days, he had her sign away her 'dower' rights, leaving with that which her husband had mentioned in the Will but none of the property although she could live there until her death, as long as she didn't remarry. Margaret in NV [email protected] wrote:In the early 18th century--did "Right of Dowery" refer only to property a woman had received from her father/mother/family? Did it always refer to a sort of prize--or bribe--for the groom? I had a theory about an ancestress being sort of an 'unwed mother in the snow', abandoned by her family, but then I found a deed in which she gave up her Right of Dowery" to the land involved. So I assume that she was probably given that land by her father when she married. Now I'm not sure why her maiden name was not mentioned in the record of her marriage. Any help would be appreciated. EC Humor is a rubber sword - it allows you to make a point without drawing blood. Mary Hirsch --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

15 Oct 2004 - added New Haven, New Haven Co., CT, Early Baptisms, 1639-1666 This file will be found at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jdevlin/ Jane Devlin Lake Orion, MI DUNHAM - WILCOX - TROTT - KIRK over 2200 data files from CT, MA, RI, NJ, NY & MI

In the early 18th century--did "Right of Dowery" refer only to property a woman had received from her father/mother/family? Did it always refer to a sort of prize--or bribe--for the groom? I had a theory about an ancestress being sort of an 'unwed mother in the snow', abandoned by her family, but then I found a deed in which she gave up her Right of Dowery" to the land involved. So I assume that she was probably given that land by her father when she married. Now I'm not sure why her maiden name was not mentioned in the record of her marriage. Any help would be appreciated. EC

Good evening from Australia. This is my first post to this list, and I am hoping someone on the list can tell me what information is available on birth certificates in 1867. My great-aunt Susan was born on 25th May 1867 in Ct, but I don't know where. One of the family lived in Stafford Springs and it is possible this was the place. Her mother, Martha Crawford had arrived in her homeland USA, and gave birth not too long after. It was only a few nights ago and with the generosity of a lister on Ma list that I found out the birth was in Ct. Up until that I didn't even know for sure it was in the US. The father Hiram Crawford was in Australia. It showed up on the 1870 Census that Susan was living with her grandparents in NH. Her parents were in Australia. I guess this is another story to unravel(g). Can anyone please let me know the amount of information that is available and how I go about finding this out and I would love confirmation mainly that the birth is the right one. regards Denise Australia.

I have family photos taken from 1850s through 1880s with one being labeled "Mrs. Pinney" East Canaan CT. I am trying to figure out who she is and if related in any way to my Scoville family. I *have* looked through the various census records and there are a number of Pinney/Phinney families. "Mrs. Pinney" looks to be in her 40's. If anyone has knowledge of Scoville/Pinney families that may have a connection please let me know. Jan

I just added the following cemeteries for Stonington to my web site Wheeler - Bentley Cemetery #1 Private Cemetery #2 Old St. Michael's Cemetery 3# all from the Hale Collection found at the CT State Library in Hartofrd Ct. there are 61 Cemeteries in Stonington, beside these numbers 23 through 61 from the Hale Collection are online, the rest will be added later when I can copy them. for these and other cemeteries just go to my web site and click on the Cemetery Listings link http://www.rays-place.com Cheers Ray Brown

Just a quick note to researchers....... I am getting phony emails that appear to be from members of my SHERMAN research group, coming from GERMANY with a virus attached. Address looks good, but ends with "/ws"....Thank goodness for "Norton". J Wilson - CT (Researching - Sherman, Bixby, Dring, Wilson, Hurlburt) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [GenCT] Re: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123 > Thanks, Dick, I'll check it out. Just for some reassurance -- I have Norton > antivirus in place that checks outgoing email and a firewall for anything I > download, in addition. I don't even remember sending anything, but I'll > look. > Melody > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard maginnis [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 8:28 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [GenCT] Re: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123 > > When we tried to view the attachment you sent, Outlook Express gave us the > following > message: > Outlook Express removed access to the following unsafe attachments in you > mail > > I don't know why the attachments were deemed unsafe, but you may want to > check for > viruses. > Dick Maginnis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:00 PM > Subject: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123 > > > > >

Thanks, Dick, I'll check it out. Just for some reassurance -- I have Norton antivirus in place that checks outgoing email and a firewall for anything I download, in addition. I don't even remember sending anything, but I'll look. Melody -----Original Message----- From: richard maginnis [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 8:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [GenCT] Re: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123 When we tried to view the attachment you sent, Outlook Express gave us the following message: Outlook Express removed access to the following unsafe attachments in you mail I don't know why the attachments were deemed unsafe, but you may want to check for viruses. Dick Maginnis ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123

When we tried to view the attachment you sent, Outlook Express gave us the following message: Outlook Express removed access to the following unsafe attachments in you mail I don't know why the attachments were deemed unsafe, but you may want to check for viruses. Dick Maginnis ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: GenConnecticut-D Digest V04 #123