On Feb 18, 10:59 am, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote: > In message of 18 Feb, Jim <goget...@rogers.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 17, 4:17 am, cosfordpar...@gmail.com wrote: > > > There used to be a shareware genealogy program (wish I could remember > > > the name of it!) with a timeline capability to include every > > > individual in the database and their dated events.  The format was > > > vertical - terrific for seeing ancestor peer-groups and understanding > > > the relativity of the various ancestors' life events. > > > > Does anyone know of a current program that 1) produces a vertical time > > > line and 2) can include the entire database (as opposed to just > > > individuals and singular family groups)? > > > > Thanks!  -- SCP > > > An old DOS program called Cherry Tree had this feature -- and I loved > > it! > > What might 'vertical time line' mean?  Does it mean that time is on the > X-axis or on the Y-axis? > > If time is on the x-axis, dates go from left to right and the people are > listed vertically. > > If time is on the y-axis, then the people are on the x-axis and go from > left to right. > > Or is it something completely different? > > -- > Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          t...@powys.org >              For a miscellany of bygones:http://powys.org/ On a page, the time line runs from top to bottom. Dates are "listed" on the left and corresponding people/events are "listed" on the right (Sorry - math is not my strong point!)

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:27:58 -0600, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote: >In our last episode, <47b851c4.5237220@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, the lovely >and talented J. Hugh Sullivan broadcast on soc.genealogy.computing: > >> My problem, and that of so many, is: (1) fire, flood and war destroyed >> many essential records (2) poor dirt farmers didn't leave much of a >> trail. > >> I have every Sullivan in the 1790 census in NC. I have eliminated all >> but 5 as possibly being the father of my gg grand. In theory I should >> be able to choose one of the 5. But what if his father was not even >> included in the 1790 census - and I know several Sullivans that were >> not. > >> From this thread I gather several people would have no problem >> selecting the father that looked best - whether he was right or wrong >> does not matter. That's certainly one way to do it. > >I do not believe I have read a post in which anyone suggested any such >thing. Based on the wording and apparent philosophy, that is the impression I got. I gather some posters consider social fatherhood the same, or a replacement, of actual fatherhood. I find social "facts" to be about the least reliable of facts. They are often hearsay, passed from generation to generation. Align 20 people in chairs and whisper a fact from one to the next all down the line and discover how little resemblance there is at the end to the original statement. Social facts are why 99% of all white USAers have Indian blood but don't have black blood. I'll delete to the last paragraph for purposes of my reply. >You may call it a fraud all you want, but it >is a truth that long served humanity well: there is more of being a father >in hearts and minds than there is in testicles. I agree with your statement. But the point is whether we are tracing bloodlines or what is in our heart. Adoptive parents love the adopted child as much, or perhaps even more, than one of their own. There is no question. But to deliberately say adoptive parents are the birth parents, without noting the facts when known, is deception - nothing more and nothing less. That is placing more importance on dishonesty than honesty. I am not saying which way a person should record his family history. I'm saying that knowingly misleading others needs to be explained to be honest. Why has openness and honesty suddenly become so reviled? We don't have to lie because things are not the way we want them to be. It appears that some disagree with me. C'est la vie. Hugh

In article <47b851c4.5237220@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, J. Hugh Sullivan <Eagle@bellsouth.net> wrote: [trim] >My problem, and that of so many, is: (1) fire, flood and war destroyed >many essential records (2) poor dirt farmers didn't leave much of a >trail. > >I have every Sullivan in the 1790 census in NC. I have eliminated all >but 5 as possibly being the father of my gg grand. In theory I should >be able to choose one of the 5. But what if his father was not even >included in the 1790 census - and I know several Sullivans that were >not. >From this thread I gather several people would have no problem >selecting the father that looked best - whether he was right or wrong >does not matter. That's certainly one way to do it. > >One cousin went to Ireland, saw a tombstone with the name Russell >Sullivan, and for 10 years said she saw the burial place of our >ancestor. Today it seems that anything is okay if it makes you feel >good. > >Am I chastising a deceased equine? Rather. That issue of the 5 known candidates for a slot in your tree, and an unknown number of unknown candidates, is why my annoyance with software that tries to push conclusions rather than evidence. One should be able to collect and work with candidates, rather than having the choice only of 'leave it blank' and 'pick one'. The candidates, some at least, you may well be able to run a tree back farther, reliably (for however you define reliability). While it may turn out that the candidate whose tree you've run back another 3 generations is not _your_ ancestor, he quite possibly is _someone's_, so a service to others (if you share your work, which you've mentioned you don't, but for those who do). One ancestor of mine, relatively recent even, prompted my interest in method of multiple hypotheses (written up by T. C. Chamberlin for geology in the 1880s) for genealogy. Common first name and common last name, and was born in a large city/county. About a dozen candidates. More than I'm going to try to handle without some support. -- Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

In message of 18 Feb, Jim <gogetjim@rogers.com> wrote: > On Feb 17, 4:17 am, cosfordpar...@gmail.com wrote: > > There used to be a shareware genealogy program (wish I could remember > > the name of it!) with a timeline capability to include every > > individual in the database and their dated events.  The format was > > vertical - terrific for seeing ancestor peer-groups and understanding > > the relativity of the various ancestors' life events. > > > > Does anyone know of a current program that 1) produces a vertical time > > line and 2) can include the entire database (as opposed to just > > individuals and singular family groups)? > > > > Thanks!  -- SCP > > An old DOS program called Cherry Tree had this feature -- and I loved > it! What might 'vertical time line' mean? Does it mean that time is on the X-axis or on the Y-axis? If time is on the x-axis, dates go from left to right and the people are listed vertically. If time is on the y-axis, then the people are on the x-axis and go from left to right. Or is it something completely different? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Dennis <nobody@nowhere.com> writes: > (Everett M. Greene) wrote: > >Chad Hanna <chad@chadhanna.co.uk> writes: > > > >>There > >> are many such questions that perplex those outside the country, e.g. > >> what exactly is the mid-west? > > > >Good luck in getting an exact answer to what is considered > >to be the mid-western U.S. > > Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States. Oh, boy! Even more opinions...

On Feb 17, 4:17 am, cosfordpar...@gmail.com wrote: > There used to be a shareware genealogy program (wish I could remember > the name of it!) with a timeline capability to include every > individual in the database and their dated events.  The format was > vertical - terrific for seeing ancestor peer-groups and understanding > the relativity of the various ancestors' life events. > > Does anyone know of a current program that 1) produces a vertical time > line and 2) can include the entire database (as opposed to just > individuals and singular family groups)? > > Thanks!  -- SCP An old DOS program called Cherry Tree had this feature -- and I loved it! Jim

Thanks fior taking the time to respond, Gene! I have tried or explored the majority of the programs listed - it's the verticality that's the problem, I think. But I'll keep looking! --Sali

I think you are making a semantic mistake. Any copy of your data (in whatever format) that you are storing somewhere else, that would allow you to reconstruct your data in the event of loss of your primary computer (including everything from a HD crash to theft to your home burning down) is a type of backup. Even paper printouts can be backups. Gary Templeman "Helen Castle" <helenlcastle@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:47adbc3e$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > Does you computer recognise that there is a drive attached when you plug > it in? > > If it does press F1 when at the desktop, do a search on backup and read > how to use Windows backup to backup to the drive > > But frankly I have never backed anything up in 19 years of using > computers - I keep a copy of everything important in the native format > that it was created in and then in an exported format of some sort plus a > lot of my important stuff is on websites - so that if I have to I can > recreate my files all over again very easily - backups only work while you > have the program that you used to backup. > > I generally have a major rebuild every 2 years, with minor reformats in > between and I have never lost anything important - sometimes I forget > minor stuff that doesnt matter but I have had some files since Windows 3.1 > and they are still readable. If the had been backed up files I wouldnt be > able to access them by now. > > If you copy stuff you can compress into a zip file - right click, sent to > zip (compressed) file. copy to Maxtor. > > Or use Windows Explorer to copy and paste to the Maxtor drive. > > -- > Helen Castle > Narangba

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 01:17:23 +0000, Ian Goddard <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >J. Hugh Sullivan wrote: >> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:11:46 +0000, Ian Goddard >> <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> J. Hugh Sullivan wrote: >>>> I can prove my ancestors "beyond a reasonable doubt" back to Adam and >>>> Eve using the Bible and Irish Mythology - published and respected >>> I think the word "Mythology" might be a slight problem there - though >>> maybe not with an Irish jury. >>> >>> -- >>> Ian >> >> "The Annals of the Four Masters" begins "when darkness was upon the >> face of the earth". > >Sounds like Belfast c AD 1970 > >> "Milesian Kings" begins in 3501 BC. "Japhet was > >Somewhat later than the C-14 date for the Ballynagilly house. > >> the eldest son of Noah. He had fifteen sons, amongst whom he divided >> Europe and the part of Asia which his father had allotted to him." - >> that's from Milesian Genealogies. >> > >The Four Masters would be tricky to check. Better stick to the Four Courts. > >-- >Ian Doing the genealogies of the Bible and the Irish reference works was fun. Until I did I did not know how we descended after the flood when, if you accept the Bible, only Noah's family was left alive. Tracking that to Milesius, then Suilebhain (Sullivan), and to the 1655 immigrant, John O'Sullivan, was a challenge. It doesn't matter how factual the line may be, it's just whether I, or anyone, could do it. To my knowledge no one else has. At my age the brain needs constant challenge to function. I have the time, my own research was at a standstill - why not? I've been through John O'Hart's "Origin and Stem...", too - and the Eochanacht. My problem, and that of so many, is: (1) fire, flood and war destroyed many essential records (2) poor dirt farmers didn't leave much of a trail. I have every Sullivan in the 1790 census in NC. I have eliminated all but 5 as possibly being the father of my gg grand. In theory I should be able to choose one of the 5. But what if his father was not even included in the 1790 census - and I know several Sullivans that were not. >From this thread I gather several people would have no problem selecting the father that looked best - whether he was right or wrong does not matter. That's certainly one way to do it. One cousin went to Ireland, saw a tombstone with the name Russell Sullivan, and for 10 years said she saw the burial place of our ancestor. Today it seems that anything is okay if it makes you feel good. Am I chastising a deceased equine? Hugh

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:25:37 PST, mojaveg@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com (Everett M. Greene) wrote: >Chad Hanna <chad@chadhanna.co.uk> writes: > >>There >> are many such questions that perplex those outside the country, e.g. >> what exactly is the mid-west? > >Good luck in getting an exact answer to what is considered >to be the mid-western U.S. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States. -- Dennis

In our last episode, <47b851c4.5237220@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, the lovely and talented J. Hugh Sullivan broadcast on soc.genealogy.computing: > My problem, and that of so many, is: (1) fire, flood and war destroyed > many essential records (2) poor dirt farmers didn't leave much of a > trail. > I have every Sullivan in the 1790 census in NC. I have eliminated all > but 5 as possibly being the father of my gg grand. In theory I should > be able to choose one of the 5. But what if his father was not even > included in the 1790 census - and I know several Sullivans that were > not. > From this thread I gather several people would have no problem > selecting the father that looked best - whether he was right or wrong > does not matter. That's certainly one way to do it. I do not believe I have read a post in which anyone suggested any such thing. The issue was whether genealogy should proceed as if pedigreeing a prize sow. There was, of course, no ability to do such a thing with any degree of confidence until late in the 20th century, while genealogy --- by that name --- has proceeded in other ways in at least the six centuries that went before. You pose a false choice: it is not genetics or fraud. Historic, social, and legal facts are facts, so much as DNA is. Lands, title, surname, caste and class, trades and tools, and much else has passed for centuries without anyone doing a cheek swab or knowing what to do with one if they had. That was not fraud or whim. We know the presumption of Western common law, that the husband of the mother is the father of the child does not, in many cases, coincide with genetics --- now that genetic facts can be tried. Rarely is maternity an issue, but --- so it is written --- even Solomon tried such a case. For most common folk, for most of human history, the facts were never tried in courts --- and it is hard to say what evidence courts might have admitted, since many times even the mother was not sure of the biologic truth, even if she alone did know whether there were any grounds for doubt. Yet children were born. They took the names of the men they called father. They learned his trade or rejected it. They took their place in order of inheritance for his lands, titles, tools, and chattels. That is history, and it is the history with which genealogy has been concerned from the time the word genealogy entered the English language until just the last couple of decades. Now it is true that genetic information has some medical application. But for most of human history there was neither remedy or prophylaxis for genetic diseases. Information on genetic parentage would have been medically useless to our ancestors if they had it. The questions they could answer were such as "Who shall have Jack's bellows and anvil now that he is dead?" And they did not need DNA to find those answers. Is it really up to us to determine whether they decided rightly or wrongly because our DNA test now shows that Jack's boy was not Jack's? Of course when you are entertaining picking one of five men with a given surname to celebrate as your ancestor, just because they are the ones that show up on the census, you are not doing pedigree. But you are not doing historical genealogy either. You don't get pick your history any more than you get to pick your pedigree. Social facts and legal facts are facts as much a genetic facts. From now forward, we have a chance to make them all coincide if we desire to do so. But we cannot work that choice, if we make it, in reverse: we cannot change the award of Jack's legacy no matter how well DNA proves that the boy who got his hammer was not his biological son. We can also choose to ignore the biological facts, except in the very few cases and limited circumstances in which they are relevant to some medical issue. That is we can choose to proceed as people did when they had no choice: to make place for bastards and orphans and yard children. You may call it a fraud all you want, but it is a truth that long served humanity well: there is more of being a father in hearts and minds than there is in testicles. -- Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com Countdown: 337 days to go.

Haines Brown wrote: > Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> writes: > >> Haines Brown <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com> wrote: >>> Incidentally, I was once interested in how >>> to render a descendant report entirely in CSS. Here's my little >>> experiment: www.hartford-hwp.com/genealogy/Brown/brown-1.html . I didn't >>> try to develop this little rendition experiment because no one seemed >>> particularly interested. > >> I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to do, but it doesn't >> display correctly in my browser (IE7). > > Thanks for alerting me to this disastor. One reason I didn't pursue the > project is because I had no IE browers (in their various versions) with > which to test it. Because MS says it is not much interested in IE > development to bring it into conformity with standards, designing a web > site that is really cross platform can be a real challenge. I had little > reason to tackle it because my aim was only to see if it could be done > in pure CSS. > It might be worth looking at gramps which uses Python to draw SVG charts. -- Ian Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard at nildram co uk

Baldy wrote: > I'm fairly versed in PAF 5 but have never really understood how to > find someone using the Subject technique. E.g., how do I find a > female when all I have is her married name like Mrs. Barbara Jones. I > know she's in my files simply can't find her by that handle. > Thanks... In the interests of locking the barn door? -- I had to go back and put it into the MARRIED NAME field (as Jones, Barbara) not as (Barbara Jones). That helps when tripping over cemetery inscriptions too, since the stone DOES insist on using the name-at-death instead of name-in-my-files. (g) Other than that, in Advanced focus, select ALL and filter for Name (given only) includes Barbara; marriage exists; then tick the SHOW MATCHES ONLY box and scroll through the list with an eye on the SPOUSE line on the right. There are other things you cannot do with advanced focus but sometimes can if you back in (f'instance ... I'm looking for a woman named Mary whose son is Zachariah ... but what I have to search for is a Zachariah and then scroll for one whose mother is mary...) HTH if not, drop by > paf-5-users@rootsweb.com Cheryl

Chad Hanna wrote: > singhals wrote: > >> Chad Hanna wrote: >> >>> rsegoly wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I am looking for relative who immigrated from Dorohoi Romania to US >>>> sometime between 1900-1915. He was married and his family followed him >>>> later. >>>> >>>> I know his surname was Schleifer. >>>> >>>> I found on Ellis island only one possible candidate (Mortiz) >>>> immigrated 1904 and his age was 24, but it say he was still single. >>>> >>>> I am not sure I can read the hand writing as English is not my mother >>>> tongue, can someone have a look at the record? >>>> >>>> Did all immigrants come via Ellis island? >>>> >>>> In case he's the guy, any advice how do I find his relatives in US? >>>> >>>> Roni >>> >>> >>> >>> Not all immigrants came via Ellis island. >>> >>> Some will have arrived via other ports on the Eastern seaboard (the >>> main alternatives being Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore and New >>> Orleans) and some will have travelled via Canada and crossed the >>> Canadian border. It might be worth reading John P Colletta's book - >>> They came in Ships >>> >>> Note that many European immigrants will have travelled via the UK and >>> outgoing passenger lists can be found at >>> http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/ >>> >>> As a Brit, I feel unqualified to offer advice about this, but I'd be >>> tempted to look at the Federal Census for 1920, 1930 to try and find >>> the family together. >>> >>> Chad >>> >>> >> >> >> Ummm ahhh... PURELY in the spirit of paying forward some of the grief >> given non-British asking questions on soc.gen.british ... ;) >> >> LOOK at a map! New Orleans is many things, but "Eastern Seaboard" >> isn't among 'em. It's one of a half-dozen or so Gulf ports. >> >> Among the Eastern Seaboard ports not mentioned would be Savannah and >> Miami and in some time periods, Alexandria VA. >> >> Cheryl > > > John Colletta's book mentions that there were over a hundred ports of > entry, ranging from Portland, Maine to Galveston, Texas. I'm sorry if my > shorthand offended you but I meant to include the Gulf of Mexico. There > are many such questions that perplex those outside the country, e.g. > what exactly is the mid-west? > > My main concern was that the OP's original question wasn't being fully > addressed. > > Chad > John quit too soon -- there are a couple ports between Galveston and Mexico too. Actually, the REAL problem is, there are beaucoups "ports" into which one could tender or row to one's own dock. Who would know if Mr Richy-Rich got off the ship outside his cove and was met by his servants in a row-boat? Mid-West. To me, Midwest is everything between the Alleghany Mountains and the Rocky Mountains. I've heard other definitions from people born in some of those states -- Texas in particular disapproves of it. (g) Cheryl

Chad Hanna <chad@chadhanna.co.uk> writes: > John Colletta's book mentions that there were over a hundred ports of > entry, ranging from Portland, Maine to Galveston, Texas. I'm sorry if my > shorthand offended you but I meant to include the Gulf of Mexico. There > are many such questions that perplex those outside the country, e.g. > what exactly is the mid-west? Good luck in getting an exact answer to what is considered to be the mid-western U.S. You'll probably get as many answers as you have people answering. [My definition of "midwest" is (very) roughly anything between the Alleghany and Rocky Mountains.]

Steven Stone wrote: > In article <28856fc7-cc96-40f1-935f-2bbb60828c53 > @n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, roni.segoly@gmail.com says... > > | > |Did all immigrants come via Ellis island? > | > > http://www.castlegarden.org is a good place to start for pre Ellis > Island immigrants. > some came from from UK via Canada or Mexico as today http://search.ancestry.com/search/default.aspx?cat=40 229 databases test it out and ask for details if you need help as anion subscriber or use ancestrylibrary edition for free at any good library Hugh W -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote: snip > I can prove my ancestors "beyond a reasonable doubt" back to Adam and > Eve using the Bible and Irish Mythology - published and respected > works. But the links from my gg grandfather to my probable ggggg > grandfather is theory that can't be disproved. My problem is that I > have no proof other than no disproof. > > I understand that those who have disagreed with my methods here would > quickly adopt my theory as gospel if they were of the line. I'm not > ready to submit to mediocrity so quickly. But I have no problem if > they do. > > DNA will make fools of a lot of us. if born a fool . . . welcome to the 'bin Hugh W -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

cosfordparker@gmail.com wrote: > There used to be a shareware genealogy program (wish I could remember > the name of it!) with a timeline capability to include every > individual in the database and their dated events. The format was > vertical - terrific for seeing ancestor peer-groups and understanding > the relativity of the various ancestors' life events. > > Does anyone know of a current program that 1) produces a vertical time > line and 2) can include the entire database (as opposed to just > individuals and singular family groups)? > > Thanks! -- SCP Googling "genealogy timeline vertical" gave numerous results, including: 1. Genelines by Progeny Software, Inc. A timeline charting companion that works with most programs and GEDCOM files and has specific versions for Legacy and Ancestral Quest. The program lets you place the names and lives of your family's past into historical context. http://www.progenygenealogy.com/genelines.html Genelines 2.0 Review by Dick Eastman Reviewed on Sept 5, 2002. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=5647 data 2. Timeline Maker Professional A more comprehensive program, also by Progeny Software, designed for professional timelines for more than just genealogy. http://www.timelinemaker.com/ home 3. Timeline Maker Basic The basic version of TimelineMaker Pro. http://www.timelinemakerbasic.com/ 4. The Genealogy Timeline by Computer Management Corporation of the South (Mary Parker) A genealogical / historical event and research organizer. http://home.netcom.com/~genealogy/ You'll have to do the rest of the legwork yourself. There are more out there, you just have to look. -- Gene Y. n2kvs Researching Young, Zies, Harer & Cox with Legacy Family Tree http://h1.ripway.com/egptech/

Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> writes: > Haines Brown <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com> wrote: >>Incidentally, I was once interested in how >>to render a descendant report entirely in CSS. Here's my little >>experiment: www.hartford-hwp.com/genealogy/Brown/brown-1.html . I didn't >>try to develop this little rendition experiment because no one seemed >>particularly interested. > I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to do, but it doesn't > display correctly in my browser (IE7). Thanks for alerting me to this disastor. One reason I didn't pursue the project is because I had no IE browers (in their various versions) with which to test it. Because MS says it is not much interested in IE development to bring it into conformity with standards, designing a web site that is really cross platform can be a real challenge. I had little reason to tackle it because my aim was only to see if it could be done in pure CSS. -- Haines Brown, KB1GRM

Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> writes: > Haines Brown wrote: >> There are surely practical difficulties, but the notion of increasing >> transparency or fading (quite different things) are easily handled in >> CSS. > > Or Javascript or Java. In my view Javascript is best avoided in the world of web design, although someone might well disagree. I"m not sure how Java would be relevant. > Fading is interesting--what if the grandfather in the on-screen tree, > along with all his ancestors, cycled, fading from one possibility to > the next? > > I've seen images doing that, and acting as variable links at the same > time, so that if you click on it, it knows which image you clicked on. It is perhaps likely that the fading images you have seen were created with Flash. I don't have the computor environment (or the money) to play with Flash, so I'm not sure if it can couple a sequence of images with different links. Someone with knowledge of Flash might chime in with better guidance. People who work in web design might point out that a lot of images that change on screen can quickly give the viewer a headache and is a distraction best avoided along with popups. -- Haines Brown, KB1GRM