On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:11:24 -0600, Bob Melson wrote: > The problem is that you won't know in advance which programs will run > and which won't. Well, actually, most of the time you can just look in Wine's AppDatabase (http://appdb.winehq.org/) to see if your particular program will work. Todd

On 2011-06-03, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:59:46 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 11:49:10 +0100, "Roger Donne" >><[email protected]> declaimed the following in >>soc.genealogy.computing: >> >>> I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating all >>> my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All is going >>> well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP to run. The >>> CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this to be a very >>> useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone help? >>> Roger >> >> 1997 is still possibly in the time frame of 16-bit applications. >>Such applications could be run on 32-bit Windows 9x/XP... I do not >>believe any 64-bit processor can support 16-bit applications. > > My laptop came with Windows 7 64-bit installed, but with a DVD with the 32-bit > version. When it wouldn't run most of my most frequently-used programs, I > installed the 32-bit version PDQ. > > But it bodes ill for the preservation of information collected on computers in > the last 60 years or so. So much of it will become inaccessible. Not necessarily. Lots of newer and older software works quite well under WINE, including Ohana's GetMyAncestors, PAF4, PAF5, and two versions of the (LDS) Scriptures on CDROM. PAF5 has the most difficulties, but it's easy to find a WINE version that runs it at least well enough to convert the data to some other format (like GEDCOM). -- Robert Riches [email protected] (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On Friday 03 June 2011 22:40, Steve Hayes ([email protected]) opined: > On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 21:48:58 -0600, Bob Melson <[email protected]> > wrote: <snip> >>The other shoe that Robert hasn't mentioned is that WINE runs under >>Unix, Linux and Mac/OS-X operating systems. It will normally run "well >>behaved" Windows programs but seems to have problems with the bleeding >>edge stuff. See http://www.winehq.org for more details. > > It's not the bleeding edge stuff I'm concerned about. It's what Microsoft > is pleased to call "legacy" programs. In my case, many of them run under > MS DOS. Understood. My point was - if point I had - that WINE is not the answer to every maiden's prayer. IF you run an appropriate o/s (see above) it'll do a workmanlike job for most programs but by no means all, which includes not only the bleeding edge stuff but the moldy-oldies, as well. The problem is that you won't know in advance which programs will run and which won't. WINE is free, as are many versions of Linux and all versions of BSD Unix. There was a free version of x86 Solaris - dunno if it still exists now that Oracle has bought Sun - and, of course, OS-X has never been free. You _might_ be able to run WINE under a live-CD linux distro and be able to test things in that manner; I'm unable to say as I've had no occasion to do so myself. I'd suggest you look at the web-site I mentioned above for more details and answers to your questions. (oomphalo)Skeptic Ol' Bob -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes -- Thomas Paine

On Friday 03 June 2011 21:36, Robert Riches ([email protected]) opined: > On 2011-06-03, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:59:46 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 11:49:10 +0100, "Roger Donne" >>><[email protected]> declaimed the following in >>>soc.genealogy.computing: >>> >>>> I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am >>>> migrating all >>>> my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All is >>>> going >>>> well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP to >>>> run. The CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this >>>> to be a very >>>> useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone help? >>>> Roger >>> >>>1997 is still possibly in the time frame of 16-bit applications. >>>Such applications could be run on 32-bit Windows 9x/XP... I do not >>>believe any 64-bit processor can support 16-bit applications. >> >> My laptop came with Windows 7 64-bit installed, but with a DVD with the >> 32-bit version. When it wouldn't run most of my most frequently-used >> programs, I installed the 32-bit version PDQ. >> >> But it bodes ill for the preservation of information collected on >> computers in the last 60 years or so. So much of it will become >> inaccessible. > > Not necessarily. Lots of newer and older software works quite > well under WINE, including Ohana's GetMyAncestors, PAF4, PAF5, > and two versions of the (LDS) Scriptures on CDROM. PAF5 has the > most difficulties, but it's easy to find a WINE version that runs > it at least well enough to convert the data to some other format > (like GEDCOM). > The other shoe that Robert hasn't mentioned is that WINE runs under Unix, Linux and Mac/OS-X operating systems. It will normally run "well behaved" Windows programs but seems to have problems with the bleeding edge stuff. See http://www.winehq.org for more details. Superb Ol' Bob -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes -- Thomas Paine

On 2-Jun-2011 8:49 pm, Roger Donne wrote: > I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating > all my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All > is going well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP > to run. The CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this > to be a very useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone > help? > Roger You can download and install the Win 7 version of Microsoft Virtual PC along with XP Mode. Go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/default.aspx The Tutorials section is very useful - read it carefully. Paul

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:59:46 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber <[email protected]> wrote: >On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 11:49:10 +0100, "Roger Donne" ><[email protected]> declaimed the following in >soc.genealogy.computing: > >> I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating all >> my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All is going >> well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP to run. The >> CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this to be a very >> useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone help? >> Roger > > 1997 is still possibly in the time frame of 16-bit applications. >Such applications could be run on 32-bit Windows 9x/XP... I do not >believe any 64-bit processor can support 16-bit applications. My laptop came with Windows 7 64-bit installed, but with a DVD with the 32-bit version. When it wouldn't run most of my most frequently-used programs, I installed the 32-bit version PDQ. But it bodes ill for the preservation of information collected on computers in the last 60 years or so. So much of it will become inaccessible. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 04:31:07 +0000 (UTC), Todd Carnes <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing: >On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:44:16 +0100, John Bennett wrote: > >> Sorry but there is a workaround. Win 7 can run a "Virtual Machine" >> within the operating system so a Windows XP virtual computer can run >> within it (and obviously the 1851 census). I am doing this myself and >> also running an older version of FTM plus lots of other non 64 bit >> compatible programs. >> >> Check out http://www.virtualbox.org/ > >I use VirtualBox all the time - great program! :) Can you give some hints about installing it ? First of all, how to find a working iso file for say Windows 98 or Windows XP, and having it **installing** on the computer and not installing each time I use it. I have a Windows 98 working computer on the same LAN (I tried copying a 20 MB file and it needed many hours so I decided to burn a CD-RW to copy files, but otherwise, I have an installed Windows 98 (on a very slow 200 MHz PC) besides. I understand I can't use the Windows 98 CD-ROM because of the foreign character set (from a German message) but I damnly need that VBox to run for my own homemade genealogy software !!! Denis -- Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG) Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom à 1780 - On CD-ROM to 1780

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:49:18 -0400, Denis Beauregard wrote: > Also, I was told that the virtual disk is somewhat difficult to build > (you will have to exchange the data in your virtual box and the data on > the disk). Naw, just set up a shared folder (assuming we're talking about virtualbox), then your virtual machine will be able to see and use anything you put in there (and vice versa). Todd

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:49:18 -0400, Denis Beauregard wrote: > First of all, the professional version of Windows 7 has its own virtual > machine. Yeah, but Microsoft's virtual machine s**ks. :) Todd

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:44:16 +0100, John Bennett wrote: > Sorry but there is a workaround. Win 7 can run a "Virtual Machine" > within the operating system so a Windows XP virtual computer can run > within it (and obviously the 1851 census). I am doing this myself and > also running an older version of FTM plus lots of other non 64 bit > compatible programs. > > Check out http://www.virtualbox.org/ I use VirtualBox all the time - great program! :)

On 02/06/2011 11:49 AM, Roger Donne wrote: > I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating > all my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All > is going well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP > to run. The CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this > to be a very useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone > help? > Roger thanks for the info John, I shall give that a try myself

On Thu 02 Jun 2011, Dunno <[email protected]> wrote: > On 02/06/2011 11:49 AM, Roger Donne wrote: >> I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am >> migrating all my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP >> machine. All is going well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I >> can't even get SETUP to run. The CD was produced some time ago >> (1997) but I still find this to be a very useful resource for my >> Devon families research. Can anyone help? Roger > > I assume you are using the Family History Resource File Viewer v4 to > try view the disc contents? it will not work on 64bit Windows 7 & > there is no workaround, Sorry but there is a workaround. Win 7 can run a "Virtual Machine" within the operating system so a Windows XP virtual computer can run within it (and obviously the 1851 census). I am doing this myself and also running an older version of FTM plus lots of other non 64 bit compatible programs. Check out http://www.virtualbox.org/ that statement comes direct from the LDS, I > emailed them regarding this very problem & that was there answer, > they also said they are not looking to make the viewer compatible > with 64bit Windows 7. I tried compatibility mode on my pc without > success, its worth a try though as it may work for you It won't work. Try the virtual box! Cheers John -- John Bennett johndotbennettatsmartemaildotcodotuk

On 02/06/2011 11:49 AM, Roger Donne wrote: > I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating > all my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All > is going well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP > to run. The CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this > to be a very useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone > help? > Roger I assume you are using the Family History Resource File Viewer v4 to try view the disc contents? it will not work on 64bit Windows 7 & there is no workaround, that statement comes direct from the LDS, I emailed them regarding this very problem & that was there answer, they also said they are not looking to make the viewer compatible with 64bit Windows 7. I tried compatibility mode on my pc without success, its worth a try though as it may work for you Graham

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:44:16 +0100, John Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing: >Check out http://www.virtualbox.org/ VM Ware is an alternative but I don't know if it already can be run on a Win 7 computer. I failed to install too but perhaps I was too lazy to read all the documentation (it is more complicated than the virtual box in my opinion). Denis -- Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG) Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom à 1780 - On CD-ROM to 1780

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:44:16 +0100, John Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing: >Sorry but there is a workaround. Win 7 can run a "Virtual Machine" >within the operating system so a Windows XP virtual computer can run >within it (and obviously the 1851 census). I am doing this myself and >also running an older version of FTM plus lots of other non 64 bit >compatible programs. > >Check out http://www.virtualbox.org/ First of all, the professional version of Windows 7 has its own virtual machine. Second, I tried to install a virtual box and failed. I found a site with iso copy of DOS 6 (failed) and Linux (was working but had to be installed each time). I read that the Win 98 I tried to install was not working because VB doesn't support foreign characters. I would like to run VB on my computer (I need DOS to compile my database into a web-style format) but failed until now. Also, I was told that the virtual disk is somewhat difficult to build (you will have to exchange the data in your virtual box and the data on the disk). Denis -- Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG) Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom à 1780 - On CD-ROM to 1780

I've just got a new computer running Windows 7 64 bit and I am migrating all my genealogy data and programs from my old Windows XP machine. All is going well except for the LDS 1851 census CD - I can't even get SETUP to run. The CD was produced some time ago (1997) but I still find this to be a very useful resource for my Devon families research. Can anyone help? Roger

On 06-01-2011 06:16, Harrison Genealogy wrote: > I think Custodian can be adapted to your requirements ... see how it can be > used by looking at the way it catalogues Probate records and by blocking > names you can send them to the main names index. What I've often wishes for (but not strongly enough to write it) is a program that displays text and allows you to select and drag items form the text into fields on the side. If the text is a format it recognizes, it converts it to standard format¹ but you can also edit it directly. Click a button, and what's in the boxes gets put into a GEDCOM record, with the text file as the source (filename, unless you provide more info). Version two: You can edit and select templates for the GEDCOM or other text formats. Version three: Output options for various genealogy programs. Version four: Drag an item to the box for fact X, and not only does it process that item, it wraps the source item in XML or HTML tags to make the source file "interactive" with the genealogy DB. -- Wes Groleau There are two types of people in the world … http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157

Steve Hayes wrote: > A document-based program is one where you enter the information found in > source documents, one document at a time. There is no single event record, or > list of events. > > An example of this is a person's death. There can be several sources: a death > certificate, an obituary, a newspaper death announcement, an obituary, a > gravestone inscription, a church burial record, probate documents. In a > document-based program each docuyment is entered as a separate record, even if > they all relate to the same event. The event as such does not have its own > record. This does not have to be the case. The document may record a number of events. I'd consider the appropriate use of the document would be to create event objects in the database relating to that document. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

In recent discussions on soc.genealogy.computing there have been some discussions about recording sources, event-based programs and the like. I mentioned the lack of a decent event-based program, and someone suggested Custodian, which is not actually an event-based program at all. But the discussion prompted me to have another look at Custodian, which I had tried about 2004/5, along with Clooz and Bygones, but never really used. The main kinds of programs used (or desired) by genealogists seem to me to be in four classes: 1. person-based programs (including lineage-linked) 2. document-based programs 3. event-based programs 4. miscellaneous programs, such as note-taking programs, word-processors The first two classes are specialised for genealogists, the last two would have wider uses. The difference between document-based programs and event-based programs perhaps needs to be clarified, because it was not clear to at least one person in the recent discussion. An event-based program is one where you begin by entering events, and can later link people and documents to the event. The minimum reporting requirement would be a chronologically-sorted list of events. A document-based program is one where you enter the information found in source documents, one document at a time. There is no single event record, or list of events. An example of this is a person's death. There can be several sources: a death certificate, an obituary, a newspaper death announcement, an obituary, a gravestone inscription, a church burial record, probate documents. In a document-based program each docuyment is entered as a separate record, even if they all relate to the same event. The event as such does not have its own record. On looking again at Clooz and Custodian in particular (I haven't been looking at Bygones again) it seems to me that Clooz might be better for keeping track of source documents, and Custodian might be better for analysing the data from source documents. Clooz is also oriented more to records from the USA. Custodian is oriented more towards records from the UK. I'll need to play with them quite a bit more before I can give a more detailed review, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people who have used them think. What do they do that you like? And what are the things that you wish they could do, but they don't? T -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve I think Custodian can be adapted to your requirements ... see how it can be used by looking at the way it catalogues Probate records and by blocking names you can send them to the main names index. It can be any document not just Probate records there are plenty of empty fields you can use for your specific info. Email Phil Smith whose Prog it is and ask the question ... If it can't go to the depths you want I know from the Custodian Forum he is always open to a wish list ! He can be reached at his wifes email address which is [email protected] Regards Bill NB I have no ties to this programme except being a user for a considerable time. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes Sent: 01 June 2011 10:50 To: [email protected] Subject: Document-based programs: Clooz, Custodian, Bygones and ... In recent discussions on soc.genealogy.computing there have been some discussions about recording sources, event-based programs and the like. I mentioned the lack of a decent event-based program, and someone suggested Custodian, which is not actually an event-based program at all. But the discussion prompted me to have another look at Custodian, which I had tried about 2004/5, along with Clooz and Bygones, but never really used. The main kinds of programs used (or desired) by genealogists seem to me to be in four classes: 1. person-based programs (including lineage-linked) 2. document-based programs 3. event-based programs 4. miscellaneous programs, such as note-taking programs, word-processors The first two classes are specialised for genealogists, the last two would have wider uses. The difference between document-based programs and event-based programs perhaps needs to be clarified, because it was not clear to at least one person in the recent discussion. An event-based program is one where you begin by entering events, and can later link people and documents to the event. The minimum reporting requirement would be a chronologically-sorted list of events. A document-based program is one where you enter the information found in source documents, one document at a time. There is no single event record, or list of events. An example of this is a person's death. There can be several sources: a death certificate, an obituary, a newspaper death announcement, an obituary, a gravestone inscription, a church burial record, probate documents. In a document-based program each docuyment is entered as a separate record, even if they all relate to the same event. The event as such does not have its own record. On looking again at Clooz and Custodian in particular (I haven't been looking at Bygones again) it seems to me that Clooz might be better for keeping track of source documents, and Custodian might be better for analysing the data from source documents. Clooz is also oriented more to records from the USA. Custodian is oriented more towards records from the UK. I'll need to play with them quite a bit more before I can give a more detailed review, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people who have used them think. What do they do that you like? And what are the things that you wish they could do, but they don't? T -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message