On Saturday 18 June 2011 16:46, Ian Goddard ([email protected]) opined: > john wrote: >> On 18/06/2011 22:25, Ian Goddard wrote: >>> john wrote: >>>> Personally, I can't find anything special in Gramps which would make >>>> me want to use it - not even the price! I do not find it very >>>> intuitive or easy to use (but then I've only played with it for a >>>> couple of hours). >>> >>> OK, there's one navigational issue which is a PITA and I've suggested >>> changing it as a feature request. But I do use it a lot. >>> >>>> It may be some operating systems have very little choice of genealogy >>>> programs so some users have to use Gramps? >>> >>> The other side of the coin is would I switch OS just to use some other >>> genealogy program? Shudders.... >>> >> >> And the OP was using Family Tree Maker on Windows ....... >> > And newsgroup threads have been known to drift OT..... > > -- > Ian > > The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang > at austonley org uk OP was asking for recommendations for a replacement for FTM on windows. Gramps for windows would certainly fall into that category. As well, because gramps runs on multiple operating systems, Ian's comment is perfectly appropriate. True, there are very few genealogy programs available for real operating systems; as a result, it's doubly pleasurable to recommend one that is truly multi-platform or, to use a now ancient term, architecturally neutral. I'd suggest that, notwithstanding gramps doesn't take you by the hand and lead you step-by-step, it's neither more nor less "intuitive" than most similar programs. The documentation is reasonable and the user-group helpful, with input from the developers on most questions. I find little to dislike about it and believe it to be worth a look by the OP. Sweaty Ol' Bob -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes -- Thomas Paine

Bob Melson wrote: > Following the gramps-users mailing list, however, I do > see that there's an "aio installer" for gramps 3.2.1 and will soon be one > for 3.3.0. As I understand it, the "aio installer" installs everything > needed to run gramps on a windows box. Keep in mind, however, that the > foregoing is worth exactly what you paid for it. Further deponent saith > not. And, FWIW, do you have a download link for that, Bob? It will be useful if the attendees at next term's FH workshop can run the same genealogical S/W as me without having to make the great leap from darkness into light. In fact, I might even see if I can get the library IT staff to install it on their machines. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:11:09 +0100, Baldy Man <[email protected]> wrote: >On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:31:45 -0400, singhals <[email protected]> >wrote: > >/snip/ > > >I use Family Historian 4 having tried every one of the programmes >mentioned. > >I came to this decision for a number of reasons. I took the FH4 tour... but I have not dl'ed the free trial yet. Being unable to decide which of two programs I like best seems to be less demanding than deciding which of three! The problem with always making your own decisions is that you never have anyone else to blame. In Legacy one must switch to several screens to enter data and sources. By the tour data entry in FH seems much simpler. FH was ranked 5th by an independent review group because it doesn't have some of the features the higher ranked programs have. However, everyone may not need all the bells and whistles available in some programs. One appears to need an installer and make several other adjustments to install Gramps on a Windows computer. That may be a little much although the price is right. Hugh

On Saturday 18 June 2011 10:06, Ian Goddard ([email protected]) opined: > Bob Melson wrote: >> Following the gramps-users mailing list, however, I do >> see that there's an "aio installer" for gramps 3.2.1 and will soon be >> one >> for 3.3.0. As I understand it, the "aio installer" installs everything >> needed to run gramps on a windows box. Keep in mind, however, that the >> foregoing is worth exactly what you paid for it. Further deponent saith >> not. > > And, FWIW, do you have a download link for that, Bob? It will be useful > if the attendees at next term's FH workshop can run the same > genealogical S/W as me without having to make the great leap from > darkness into light. In fact, I might even see if I can get the library > IT staff to install it on their machines. > > -- > Ian > > The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang > at austonley org uk Ian: I'm not quite so negative as John is in a follow-on post. However, it does appear that installing gramps on a windoze box is not something for the faint-hearted. See the following: http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Download to get started. The rest seems fairly well documented in the links for windows. HTH, Swelterin' Ol' Bob -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes -- Thomas Paine

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:31:45 -0400, singhals <[email protected]> wrote: >If I were limited to /just/ one, it would be PAF because I'm >used to it and it does a magnificent job of storing my >factual data. For most people I think that is the basis for a recommendation. Even though I make the effort to try every known genealogy program, seems like I always return to the ones I am used to. Hugh

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:48:46 +0100, "Harrison Genealogy" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hugh et al > >I only tend to import my Legacy file into Rootsmagic because I love RM's >search facilities ... any changes or additions I make to Legacy only. > >I keep this procedure with all other Progs I use ! > >Bill > >PS I use the de-luxe edition of Legacy 7.5 Moi aussi - both times. I assure you the hard way is an effective learning tool. Hugh

singhals wrote: > My crusader gene timed-out about in the Y2K non-crisis. (g) You mean the Y2K opportunity ;). Actually my gig at the time was for a client to upgrade the server on which they ran their business admin including accounts. But their accounting year ended on 31 Dec & the accountants refused to allow us to go live on the new platform until they'd finalised the year which took them about two or three weeks into 2000. The non-Y2K version still ran - sort of. We had to have the package's authors dial in every couple of days or so during those weeks to fix the errors. The reason why Y2K was a non-crisis was that a lot of work went on to avert it. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

"Bob Melson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > On Friday 17 June 2011 18:45, Bob Melson ([email protected]) opined: > >> On Friday 17 June 2011 18:35, Dave C ([email protected]) opined: >> >>> >>> "Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message >>> news:[email protected] >>>> On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:39:47 +1200, "Dave C" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Thanks Todd - I will have a look at Legacy. Hadn't heard of that one >>>>>prior to asking the question here. >>>> >>>> I'm quite surprised at that, since the basic version is free, so you >>>> can try >>>> it to see if you like it, and paqy for the additions if you need them. >>>> >>>> I've been using it since 2002 as my main program, and find it adequate >>>> for my >>>> needs, so try it and see if it meets yours. >>>> >>>> >>> Definately going to do that Steve. Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to >>> [email protected] --- >> >> Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's >> 3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for >> Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's >> free. >> >> Surly Ol' Bob > > I should add that I've been using it for 4-5 years now, primarily as a > backup for phpGedView, and have found it to be capable and competent. > Like all the others, it does have its quirks, but it's capable of > exporting either gedcom or xml, will produce (static) web-pages from a > database and doesn't whimper much when importing a gedcom from another > app. Has a full range of text and graphic reports, does maps when > suitably configured and has a number of useful 3d-party add-ons that > extend its usefulness/utility. I haven't played with the > latest'n'greatest just yet, but it promises to push the envelope. For a > current review, see Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter at: > http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2011/06/gramps-330-is-now-available.html > > SOB > > -- > Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas > ----- > The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated > in the name of the noblest causes -- Thomas Paine > Thankyou Bob - I will take a look. No aversion to free <grin>. --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

On 18/06/2011 10:53, Ian Goddard wrote: > Bob Melson wrote: >> Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's >> 3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for >> Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's > > Thanks for that heads-up, Bob. I hadn't seen that. Now I need to find > time to back everything up & upgrade.... > > However, the .exe isn't very big so, unlike the all-singing all-dancing > installer project from some time ago, it seems unlikely that it will > install all the dependencies such as Python which are apt to be absent > from Windows. Looking back to the comments on the 2.6 release it seems > that as ever Windows users were finding it just too difficult to set up. > They really do need to build and keep up-to-date all-in-one installer. > I just tried installing the Win 32 version. I needed to install: 1. python 2.72 (15 Mb) from python 2.7.2 http://www.python.org/download/ 2. gtk-2.12.9-win32-2.exe (7 Mb) from http://sourceforge.net/projects/gladewin32/files/gtk%2B-win32-runtime/2.12.9/ 3. pygtk-all-in-one-2.24.0.win32-py2.7.msi (32 Mb) from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/binaries/win32/pygtk/2.24/ before installing Gramps 3.3 (7 Mb) from http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/3.3.0/ There is more information at http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Windows_installer#Installation and more installation help at http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GRAMPS_and_Windows When I ran Gramps for the first time it asked whether I wanted to install some additional components. All but one installed without problems after a program restart. With all the components and dependencies, I don't think most Windows users would be able to maintain/upgrade the Win version of Gramps with any ease.

Steve Hayes wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:15:09 -0400, Bob LeChevalier<[email protected]> wrote: > >> Steve Hayes<[email protected]> wrote: >>> You see this list of trees that all have things like "10472 >>> individuals" - so which one is the original and which ones are the copies? >> >> Why would it matter? The data is the same. I can't find the post where someone wrote the last line above. ONE of the reasons it matters is to trace the earliest assertion to assess the potential accuracy. If a family in New Orleans says their daughter married Gen. Benjamin Butler's son in 1876, they're only saying it because it's true and they can't plausibly deny it. If the General says it, same thing. But if the great-granddaughter of the New Orleans girl married a Connecticutite whose family history in 1995 says it -- probably wants looking into. Cheryl

john wrote: > On 18/06/2011 10:53, Ian Goddard wrote: >> Bob Melson wrote: >>> Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's >>> 3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for >>> Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's >> >> Thanks for that heads-up, Bob. I hadn't seen that. Now I need to find >> time to back everything up & upgrade.... >> >> However, the .exe isn't very big so, unlike the all-singing all-dancing >> installer project from some time ago, it seems unlikely that it will >> install all the dependencies such as Python which are apt to be absent >> from Windows. Looking back to the comments on the 2.6 release it seems >> that as ever Windows users were finding it just too difficult to set up. >> They really do need to build and keep up-to-date all-in-one installer. >> > > I just tried installing the Win 32 version. I needed to install: > 1. python 2.72 (15 Mb) from python 2.7.2 http://www.python.org/download/ > 2. gtk-2.12.9-win32-2.exe (7 Mb) from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/gladewin32/files/gtk%2B-win32-runtime/2.12.9/ > > 3. pygtk-all-in-one-2.24.0.win32-py2.7.msi (32 Mb) from > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/binaries/win32/pygtk/2.24/ > > before installing Gramps 3.3 (7 Mb) from > http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/3.3.0/ > > There is more information at > http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Windows_installer#Installation > > > and more installation help at > http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GRAMPS_and_Windows > > When I ran Gramps for the first time it asked whether I wanted to > install some additional components. All but one installed without > problems after a program restart. > > With all the components and dependencies, I don't think most Windows > users would be able to maintain/upgrade the Win version of Gramps with > any ease. > > > Quite. This was why someone started the project at http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gramps4win/index.php?title=Main_Page It's somewhat misleading in describing it as a beta in that the version of Gramps installed wasn't, it's just the overall packaging which was beta AIUI. I tried it on W2K under VirtualBoxand, beta or not, it worked fine. But it's frozen as of two years ago at Gramps 3.1.1. It's quite likely that some later versions of Gramps could be used to update it but without updating the dependencies I doubt it could have been brought up-to-date. What's needed is to bring the installer up-to-date with current dependencies and Gramps and then maintained. I wish open source developers would read the first chapter of The Mythical Man-Month and understand the difference between a project and a product. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:39:47 +1200, "Dave C" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>Thanks Todd - I will have a look at Legacy. Hadn't heard of that one prior >>to asking the question here. > > I'm quite surprised at that, since the basic version is free, so you can > try > it to see if you like it, and paqy for the additions if you need them. > > I've been using it since 2002 as my main program, and find it adequate for > my > needs, so try it and see if it meets yours. > > Definately going to do that Steve. Thanks Dave --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

"Baldy Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:31:45 -0400, singhals <[email protected]> > wrote: > > /snip/ > > > I use Family Historian 4 having tried every one of the programmes > mentioned. > > I came to this decision for a number of reasons. > > (a) it has some very good charts qhich met my needs perfectly. > > (b) it's native file format is GEDCOM so it imports into any other > programme almost seamlessly (although I have only regularly do this > into FTM because some of the family use this software) > > (c) you can adapt the fields to suit your own use if you need anything > non regular > > (d) There is a very active User Group, frequented by the authors and > several add on writers where custom charts, diagrams, searches and > reports are uploaded and free. (www.fhug.org.uk) > > (e) it has a graphical query page which does what looks like SQL on > the database and generates data subsets. This is very powerful and > just about the main reason I bought the software. > > (f) There is an add on called Ancetral Sources which makes entering > censuses (the UK, Canada Ireland & USA ones at present), and has just > been upgraded to also enter baptisms. The author has stated plans to > include all BMD events. > > (g) Output can be sent to the in built pdf writer so sending diagrams > to others is a doddle. > > (h) Unfortunately, the web site generator uses HTML which is good for > CD's but a bit clunky if you have many thousands of people and > families. But as the file format is Gedcom it can be read by > phpgedview which makes a relational database which is both small, > quick and works well. > > For the record, I found FTM very easy to use but you have to do things > the Ancestry way. It is great if you want to interface with Ancestry > but only did what it says on the box. No real customisation available. > > Legacy works but was clunky nh my opinion. Again I prefered the > queries in FH4. > > The others lacked the output in terms of customisable diagrams that FH > does and always felt the need to transfer datat from prog to prog to > get the features I needed. As already stated, data transfer is rarely > faultless so the less you do it the better. > > Hope that helps. Thankyou yes it does <grin>. Looks like I need to look at FH4 as well. Dave --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

"singhals" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] <snip> > As a rule of thumb (and yes, some thumbs are shorter than others), if the > box/ad doesn't specifically SAY it does x, y, or z, better assume it > doesn't do it. (Possible exceptions would include the box not specifying > you can SAVE or SAVE_As, but if it doesn't SAY you can import/export via > GEDCOM, you can't; if it doesn't SAY you can color-code the data, you > can't but even if it does say so, you may not be able to color-code the > data you want color-coded). > > I've used PAF, Legacy, Roots/UFT, FTM, TFE, RM/FO, and others. Each > had/has a feature the others lack. The "legacy" software from DOS-days I > keep functional on an old computer; some of the newer ones I use at my > FHC. > > If I were limited to /just/ one, it would be PAF because I'm used to it > and it does a magnificent job of storing my factual data. I'll have to > move to something else one day, because LDS is not developing it further > and one day in the not-far-distant future it will quit running on new > computers. At that time, I'll probably go to Ancestral Quest as it's what > PAF3 et seq are based on. > > FWIW. Opinions of others will vary wildly. (g) > > Cheryl Thankyou Cheryl - I appreciate your response. You are right about the feature spread among various packages, I also find that the (G)UI varies from enabling to restrictive, or perhaps enabling to frustrating! Dave --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote: [snip] > The problem with always making your own decisions is that you never > have anyone else to blame. > I /hear/ that! (g) OTOH, you'n'I can always blame one another -- as the saying goes, I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you. [snip] > everyone may not need all the bells and whistles available in some > programs. I have a cousin, born and raised where a quarter-inch of snow closes down the freeways/interstates and everything else in town. Moved to Philadelphia, bought a 4-wheel-drive to help deal with the driving-in-a-foot-of-it. By the time she figured out 5 forward gears and the transition to 4-wheel, winter was over and by the next winter she was in Los Angeles where she needed neither the expertise or equipment. All the bells, whistles, nook, crannies, and templates in most programs today are remarkably similar to her situation -- by the time one figures out how to use them correctly, there's a new/better version that does it ever-so-slightly differently or changes the location of the icon or whatever. Then again, maybe I'm just jaded? Cheryl

Steve Hayes wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:45:48 -0600, Bob Melson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's >> 3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for >> Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's >> free. > > I installed Linux on my computer mainly so I could try it out, but I don't > know how to install it if it didn't come with the Linux distro. > > I've tried asking for help on the Linux ngs, but there's no use asking how to > do something unless you already know how to do it. > > If you don't know how to do it the response is "Don't feed the troll" > > If the distro is Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis or one of the other Debian derivatives the default package would be a .deb and the command to install some_package.deb is dpkg -i some_package.deb This assumes you're root which is OK in Debian but Ubuntu and its children don't like you being root so the command becomes sudo dpkg -i some_package.deb If dpkg complains that some_other_package is needed then, assuming its in your distro's repository you can install that with apt-get install some_other_package again prefixing it with sudo as required. Once apt-get has installed the dependencies it will automatically complete the pending dpkg install. All this assumes you're working from the command line. However both the KDE and Gnome window managers should recognise the .deb suffix and offer to do the install. If there are unmet dependencies you'll need to install them through the command line or through Synaptic. For other distros you'll need the .tar.gz version, AKA a tarball (Gramps doesn't appear to offer a .rpm alternative). You can open a tarball with tar xvf filename which should, if it's been put together nicely, expand into a single directory with all the related files in it. cd into the directory and look for instructions. If the tarball isn't put together nicely it will splurge its contents all over your current directory. You can list the contents with tar tvf filename to check whether all the files start with the_same_directory_name/ HTH "Why tar?" you may ask. It goes way back to early Unix and stands for "tape archiver" which is, of course, one step up from "ar". -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:45:48 -0600, Bob Melson <[email protected]> wrote: >Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's >3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for >Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's >free. I installed Linux on my computer mainly so I could try it out, but I don't know how to install it if it didn't come with the Linux distro. I've tried asking for help on the Linux ngs, but there's no use asking how to do something unless you already know how to do it. If you don't know how to do it the response is "Don't feed the troll" -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:58:44 -0400, Wes Groleau <[email protected]> wrote: >On 06-16-2011 14:45, Bob LeChevalier wrote: >> I've heard that there is another social media site centered on >> genealogy (though I've never looked), and Mundia may merely be > >geni.com And MyHeritage -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:33:51 +0300, Renia <[email protected]> wrote: >As with the others, it wanted me to log in. As a subscriber to Ancestry, >I logged in with what I thought was my Ancestry login. But it was the >login for one particular tree which a correspondent had "invited" me to >ages ago. I can't get away from this particular tree or search for any >others. The only other option, is for me to start my own new family >tree, which I will not do. > >Useless. Thanks to you and everyone else who commented. I hope you all click on the "feedback" link on the site, and tell them how you think it can be improved! I've now written a review of the site on my blog at: http://su.pr/2kjHyK -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Bob Melson wrote: > Notably missing from all this has been gramps, which just released it's > 3.3.0 version. While originally a Linux/Unix app, it's available for > Windows. See http://gramps-project.org/ for details. And, BTW, it's Thanks for that heads-up, Bob. I hadn't seen that. Now I need to find time to back everything up & upgrade.... However, the .exe isn't very big so, unlike the all-singing all-dancing installer project from some time ago, it seems unlikely that it will install all the dependencies such as Python which are apt to be absent from Windows. Looking back to the comments on the 2.6 release it seems that as ever Windows users were finding it just too difficult to set up. They really do need to build and keep up-to-date all-in-one installer. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk