In message <b4al0sFsvhcU1@mid.individual.net>, Geoff Pearson <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> writes: [] >The use of Lady Fulton without a forename suggests she was the wife of >someone. If it had been her own title it would be normal to give her >forename cf Lady Antonia Fraser daughter of the Earl of Longford and >Lady Thatcher, wife of Sir Denis Thatcher Baronet. Margaret Thatcher >later became a life peer and was properly called Baroness Thatcher. For >Thatcher, neither produced Lady Margaret Thatcher. So I guess Lady >Fulton has to be found by finding a Sir or Lord Fulton. Unfortunately, "suggests" is the right word to use here: these matters of etiquette are often not known (I didn't, though will try to remember from your example - though I'd forgotten or didn't know Dennis was a baronet). This lack of knowledge almost certainly extends to journalists, especially on smaller papers, so I don't think one can _rely_ on how a name is given, though it can indeed suggest. > >In my family it was always said my great-grandfather was a partner of >William Morris in his cycle shop and they parted when Morris decided to >build new-fangled cars. There was no truth in it, except they lived in >the same street in Cowley - but the story grew because no one checked. >We still have nothing to connect JDBF to a Lady Fulton or RAF Cosford. (I just walked past the blue plaque that said William Morris "lived and made bicycles here" last night [I'm visiting my brother in Oxford for the weekend]. Ordinary house in an ordinary street - or is now, anyway.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf What is the point of a really good degree, if you're just like Harold Wilson? That really cut me down to size. - Sister Wendy Becket, on DIDs 2012-12-16 (She, like he, got one of the best degrees at Oxford in her year.)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:Y2g2QrGdhm4RFw$C@soft255.demon.co.uk... > In message <b4al0sFsvhcU1@mid.individual.net>, Geoff Pearson > <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> writes: > [] >>The use of Lady Fulton without a forename suggests she was the wife of >>someone. If it had been her own title it would be normal to give her >>forename cf Lady Antonia Fraser daughter of the Earl of Longford and Lady >>Thatcher, wife of Sir Denis Thatcher Baronet. Margaret Thatcher later >>became a life peer and was properly called Baroness Thatcher. For >>Thatcher, neither produced Lady Margaret Thatcher. So I guess Lady Fulton >>has to be found by finding a Sir or Lord Fulton. > > Unfortunately, "suggests" is the right word to use here: these matters of > etiquette are often not known (I didn't, though will try to remember from > your example - though I'd forgotten or didn't know Dennis was a baronet). > This lack of knowledge almost certainly extends to journalists, especially > on smaller papers, so I don't think one can _rely_ on how a name is given, > though it can indeed suggest. >> >>In my family it was always said my great-grandfather was a partner of >>William Morris in his cycle shop and they parted when Morris decided to >>build new-fangled cars. There was no truth in it, except they lived in >>the same street in Cowley - but the story grew because no one checked. We >>still have nothing to connect JDBF to a Lady Fulton or RAF Cosford. > > (I just walked past the blue plaque that said William Morris "lived and > made bicycles here" last night [I'm visiting my brother in Oxford for the > weekend]. Ordinary house in an ordinary street - or is now, anyway.) > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > What is the point of a really good degree, if you're just like Harold > Wilson? > That really cut me down to size. - Sister Wendy Becket, on DIDs 2012-12-16 > (She, like he, got one of the best degrees at Oxford in her year.) There was a tradition that Prime Ministers were awarded earldoms ( inheritable titles) when they went to the House of Lords: Earl Attlee, Harold Macmillan>Earl of Stockton but some refused: Winston Churchill. Willie Whitelaw was appointed Viscount because he had only daughters and therefore the title would die with him. There was no obvious rank of aristocracy open to Mrs Thatcher so she accepted a baronetcy for Denis, hence Sir Mark Thatcher today. Later, when she wanted to go to the Lords she was offered a life barony as there are almost no female peers in their own right: Countess Mountbatten may be the only English example, there are several Scottish ones: Countess of Sutherland, Baroness Strange.