On 2013-06-30 22:21:45 +0000, mllt1@le.ac.uk said: > On Sunday, June 30, 2013 10:04:14 PM UTC+1, ecunningham wrote: > >> Matt: Hate to jump into the middle of this but need a clarification. >> Do> you KNOW he was drafted. The card you are referring to is a >> REGISTRATION> CARD. It does not mean he was drafted. If he was, get his >> military> records (if they didn't burn in St. Louis). However, you >> needed this> card to work during the ww1 years and could be stopped on >> the street by> patriotic bullies and made to show the card. Many men >> never registered> but did serve. >> ecunningh***.net > > A good question - all we know is that Tickettyboo's original post said > 'a month later he was enlisted'. It's one of the circumstances one > would like to know more about - was he conscripted unwillingly, or did > he accept the draft more or less willingly, or did he simply volunteer > (the last seems unlikely - his statements in the draft card do not > point to much desire for service.) If Tickettyboo knows anything more > it would be interesting to hear it. > > Matt Tompkins Sorry I didn't back back to this sooner, the here and now has been demanding my attention so the long dead have taken a back seat. Charles Victor HENRY is a twiglet on my tree, he was the son of one of my Granda's cousins. Until I started researching my family history I had no idea of their existence so have no personal knowledge of them. His grandparents and assorted children (including Charles' father) emigrated from Shetland to Canada c1873. Charles' parents married in New Brunswick in 1891, they had 2 children (that I know of) Hazel born 1892 and Charles born 1896. Charles' father died in 1899 and his widow re-married in 1904. One of Charles' uncles had left Canada and settled in Maine with his family. According to the 1920 US census, Charles was living with them and the form says he had been in the US since 1912. The same 1920 census has him, still classified as an alien, by 1930 the entry in the citizenship column of the census say Pa (which I believe means he had submitted the papers for citizenship, but I could be wrong). I don't have an actual service record for Charles (if anyone can point me to where I may find one, I'll go look), I do have a record from the Maine-WW1-Soldiers index which says he entered service 25 July 1918 and was honourably discharged 24 Jul 1919. When he died in 1956, his widow (who, just to complicate matters, was also his cousin) applied for a headstone to be paid for by the Govt and that form confirms his service dates and gives his service number as 3160782 and says he served in the Army - 83 Co. Transportation Corps. He was buried in Village Cemetery, Gray, Maine. So, yes, I am sure he served in the US Army, but I have no idea if he did that voluntarily or was conscripted. Is there anyway to tell? -- Tickettyboo

Tickettyboo wrote: > On 2013-06-30 22:21:45 +0000, mllt1@le.ac.uk said: > >> On Sunday, June 30, 2013 10:04:14 PM UTC+1, ecunningham wrote: >> >>> Matt: Hate to jump into the middle of this but need a clarification. >>> Do> you KNOW he was drafted. The card you are referring to is a >>> REGISTRATION> CARD. It does not mean he was drafted. If he was, get his >>> military> records (if they didn't burn in St. Louis). However, you >>> needed this> card to work during the ww1 years and could be stopped on >>> the street by> patriotic bullies and made to show the card. Many men >>> never registered> but did serve. >>> ecunningh***.net >> >> A good question - all we know is that Tickettyboo's original post said >> 'a month later he was enlisted'. It's one of the circumstances one >> would like to know more about - was he conscripted unwillingly, or did >> he accept the draft more or less willingly, or did he simply volunteer >> (the last seems unlikely - his statements in the draft card do not >> point to much desire for service.) If Tickettyboo knows anything more >> it would be interesting to hear it. >> >> Matt Tompkins > > > Sorry I didn't back back to this sooner, the here and now has been > demanding my attention so the long dead have taken a back seat. > > Charles Victor HENRY is a twiglet on my tree, he was the son of one of > my Granda's cousins. Until I started researching my family history I > had no idea of their existence so have no personal knowledge of them. > His grandparents and assorted children (including Charles' father) > emigrated from Shetland to Canada c1873. > Charles' parents married in New Brunswick in 1891, they had 2 children > (that I know of) Hazel born 1892 and Charles born 1896. Charles' father > died in 1899 and his widow re-married in 1904. > > One of Charles' uncles had left Canada and settled in Maine with his > family. According to the 1920 US census, Charles was living with them > and the form says he had been in the US since 1912. The same 1920 > census has him, still classified as an alien, by 1930 the entry in the > citizenship column of the census say Pa (which I believe means he had > submitted the papers for citizenship, but I could be wrong). > > I don't have an actual service record for Charles (if anyone can point > me to where I may find one, I'll go look), I do have a record from the > Maine-WW1-Soldiers index which says he entered service 25 July 1918 and > was honourably discharged 24 Jul 1919. > When he died in 1956, his widow (who, just to complicate matters, was > also his cousin) applied for a headstone to be paid for by the Govt and > that form confirms his service dates and gives his service number as > 3160782 and says he served in the Army - 83 Co. Transportation Corps. > He was buried in Village Cemetery, Gray, Maine. > So, yes, I am sure he served in the US Army, but I have no idea if he > did that voluntarily or was conscripted. Is there anyway to tell? > Worth what you're paying for it, not a centime more: Yes, PA on most census does mean "Papers submitted." Generally, this implies the Declaration of Intent, a.k.a., First Papers. I know military experts and military research experts and research experts who specialise in the military. All these various people have told me at various times, beginning in 1964 through 2000 which is the last time I asked, that barring extremely unique circumstances, a foreign citizen who had not filed a Declaration of Intent could not be drafted. The example I've been given for Extremely Unique Circumstances pretty much boils down, the enemy is within sight and all local male US Citizen are already IN the service or dead but more soldiers are needed; local non-US-citizens COULD be drafted for the duration of the battle. Far's I know, no one has invaded Maine since 1800, so I can't see how an invocation of Extremely Unique Circumstances could have been involved. At some point beginning prior to the US War Between the States (1861-65) and AFAIK continuing today, a non-US-Citizen could shorten the required time between Declaration of Intent and Petition by serving in the US Military. I've actually known someone who did that. UNfortunately, I know of no easy way to know for certain whether he was in fact undeclared. If there is a database on-line or off of persons filing First Papers, I've not heard of it. There are tedious labor-intensive and time-consuming things one /could/ do with no certainty of accuracy. Happy to outline them, or visit any of the immigration/naturalization tutorial sites on-line (rootsweb.com, cyndislist.com et al) Cheryl

Thank you for coming back with that further information, Tickettyboo. I guess if he continued living in America after the war he can't have been too resentful over his conscription (if conscription it was)! Matt Tompkins On Monday, July 8, 2013 12:17:31 AM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: Sorry I didn't back back to this sooner, the here and now has been demanding my attention so the long dead have taken a back seat. Charles Victor HENRY is a twiglet on my tree, he was the son of one of my Granda's cousins. Until I started researching my family history I had no idea of their existence so have no personal knowledge of them. His grandparents and assorted children (including Charles' father) emigrated from Shetland to Canada c1873. Charles' parents married in New Brunswick in 1891, they had 2 children (that I know of) Hazel born 1892 and Charles born 1896. Charles' father died in 1899 and his widow re-married in 1904. One of Charles' uncles had left Canada and settled in Maine with his family. According to the 1920 US census, Charles was living with them and the form says he had been in the US since 1912. The same 1920 census has him, still classified as an alien, by 1930 the entry in the citizenship column of the census say Pa (which I believe means he had submitted the papers for citizenship, but I could be wrong). I don't have an actual service record for Charles (if anyone can point me to where I may find one, I'll go look), I do have a record from the Maine-WW1-Soldiers index which says he entered service 25 July 1918 and was honourably discharged 24 Jul 1919. When he died in 1956, his widow (who, just to complicate matters, was also his cousin) applied for a headstone to be paid for by the Govt and that form confirms his service dates and gives his service number as 3160782 and says he served in the Army - 83 Co. Transportation Corps. He was buried in Village Cemetery, Gray, Maine. So, yes, I am sure he served in the US Army, but I have no idea if he did that voluntarily or was conscripted. Is there anyway to tell? -- Tickettyboo