On 09/08/2013 14:53, chaswrdrown@ yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone out there have any information as to the death of > WILLIAM WHITTLE CLARK. > We believe it may have been in 1940's but have been unable to > find any reference to him in the FRO. > > Did he go abroad or change his name?? > > He was born on 01 June 1889 in Queen Charlotte's Hosp. Marylebone. > He married SUSAN HORLOCK 14 July 1915 in Wanstead Parish church, > East London (then in Essex). > In 1933 he left home in Biggin Hill, never to be seen again by his > wife and two daughters. > His (now elderly) daughters are anxious to know what happened to him. > > Can any descendants of his step-siblings help? > Can any one else help please?? So, a resume of what is known or suspected, according to the good people here: 1889 Jun 1st - William Whittle Clark born Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone 1889 Jun qr - William Whittle Fowler born Marylebone 1889 Jun 6 - William Whittle Fowler bapt St Mark, Marylebone (b 1 Jun 1889, Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone son of Caroline Fowler) 1891 - Caroline Fowler (age 23, b Stepney) a domestic at 29 Barkstone Mansions, Kensington 1891 - George E Clark (age 2 born St James's London) boarder with other babies and infants 1892 - George Edward Clark married Caroline Fowler in West Ham area 1901 - William Clark living in Wanstead with parents George & Caroline 1907 Dec 3 - W W Clark joined RAF Technical rank QMS (T) 1911 - William Whittle Clark in census as Gunner RA, born West Ham 1911 - 1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead Parish church, London, Essex 1916 Mar 1 - W W Clark promoted to Master Mechanic in RAF 1918 - W W Clark in RAF Muster Roll 1918-1928 - William Whittle Clark in RAF personnel 1933 - William Whittle Clark left home in Biggin Hill A William G W Clark died in the Thurrock area of Essex in 1966 aged 77. A William G W Clark married Ivy E Jordan in 1917 in Dover, Kent who may be the William G W Clark who died in the Maidstone area in 1920 (aged 26) The computations for finding this man are endless. It reminds me a bit of Minnie Driver's father, who kept his Air Force life secret, threw his DFC away and led a double life after psychiatric troubles as a result of his war experiences. Perhaps William Whittle Clark felt much the same. Perhaps he even ran away to join the circus?! Some people on Rootschat were discussing Whittles, who were travelling showmen, predominantly in Essex, thought they got around a bit. There also seems to have been a Whittles circus. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314684.10.html

On 10/08/2013 02:01, Renia wrote: > On 09/08/2013 14:53, chaswrdrown@ yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> Hi, >> Does anyone out there have any information as to the death of >> WILLIAM WHITTLE CLARK. >> We believe it may have been in 1940's but have been unable to >> find any reference to him in the FRO. >> >> Did he go abroad or change his name?? >> >> He was born on 01 June 1889 in Queen Charlotte's Hosp. Marylebone. >> He married SUSAN HORLOCK 14 July 1915 in Wanstead Parish church, >> East London (then in Essex). >> In 1933 he left home in Biggin Hill, never to be seen again by his >> wife and two daughters. >> His (now elderly) daughters are anxious to know what happened to him. >> >> Can any descendants of his step-siblings help? >> Can any one else help please?? > > So, a resume of what is known or suspected, according to the good people > here: > > 1889 Jun 1st - William Whittle Clark born Queen Charlotte's Hospital, > Marylebone > 1889 Jun qr - William Whittle Fowler born Marylebone > 1889 Jun 6 - William Whittle Fowler bapt St Mark, Marylebone (b 1 Jun > 1889, Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone son of Caroline Fowler) > 1891 - Caroline Fowler (age 23, b Stepney) a domestic at 29 Barkstone > Mansions, Kensington > 1891 - George E Clark (age 2 born St James's London) boarder with other > babies and infants > 1892 - George Edward Clark married Caroline Fowler in West Ham area > 1901 - William Clark living in Wanstead with parents George & Caroline > 1907 Dec 3 - W W Clark joined RAF Technical rank QMS (T) > 1911 - William Whittle Clark in census as Gunner RA, born West Ham > 1911 - > 1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead > Parish church, London, Essex > 1916 Mar 1 - W W Clark promoted to Master Mechanic in RAF Quick point, there was no RAF in 1916, Army Air Corps perhaps? > 1918 - W W Clark in RAF Muster Roll > 1918-1928 - William Whittle Clark in RAF personnel > 1933 - William Whittle Clark left home in Biggin Hill > > A William G W Clark died in the Thurrock area of Essex in 1966 aged 77. > A William G W Clark married Ivy E Jordan in 1917 in Dover, Kent who may > be the William G W Clark who died in the Maidstone area in 1920 (aged 26) > > The computations for finding this man are endless. It reminds me a bit > of Minnie Driver's father, who kept his Air Force life secret, threw his > DFC away and led a double life after psychiatric troubles as a result of > his war experiences. Perhaps William Whittle Clark felt much the same. > Perhaps he even ran away to join the circus?! > > > Some people on Rootschat were discussing Whittles, who were travelling > showmen, predominantly in Essex, thought they got around a bit. There > also seems to have been a Whittles circus. > > http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314684.10.html -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 10/08/2013 08:06, Graeme Wall wrote: > On 10/08/2013 02:01, Renia wrote: >> So, a resume of what is known or suspected, according to the good people >> here: >> >> 1889 Jun 1st - William Whittle Clark born Queen Charlotte's Hospital, >> Marylebone >> 1889 Jun qr - William Whittle Fowler born Marylebone >> 1889 Jun 6 - William Whittle Fowler bapt St Mark, Marylebone (b 1 Jun >> 1889, Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone son of Caroline Fowler) >> 1891 - Caroline Fowler (age 23, b Stepney) a domestic at 29 Barkstone >> Mansions, Kensington >> 1891 - George E Clark (age 2 born St James's London) boarder with other >> babies and infants >> 1892 - George Edward Clark married Caroline Fowler in West Ham area >> 1901 - William Clark living in Wanstead with parents George & Caroline >> 1907 Dec 3 - W W Clark joined RAF Technical rank QMS (T) >> 1911 - William Whittle Clark in census as Gunner RA, born West Ham >> 1911 - >> 1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead >> Parish church, London, Essex >> 1916 Mar 1 - W W Clark promoted to Master Mechanic in RAF > > Quick point, there was no RAF in 1916, Army Air Corps perhaps? Neither was there an RAF in 1907. As someone said, some parts (the mechanical parts) of the Royal Artillery became part of the RAF in 1918. This 1907 and 1916 info comes from the 1918 RAF muster.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 02:01:01 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >On 09/08/2013 14:53, chaswrdrown@ yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> Hi, >> Does anyone out there have any information as to the death of >> WILLIAM WHITTLE CLARK. >> We believe it may have been in 1940's but have been unable to >> find any reference to him in the FRO. >> >> Did he go abroad or change his name?? >> >> He was born on 01 June 1889 in Queen Charlotte's Hosp. Marylebone. >> He married SUSAN HORLOCK 14 July 1915 in Wanstead Parish church, >> East London (then in Essex). >> In 1933 he left home in Biggin Hill, never to be seen again by his >> wife and two daughters. >> His (now elderly) daughters are anxious to know what happened to him. >> >> Can any descendants of his step-siblings help? >> Can any one else help please?? > >So, a resume of what is known or suspected, according to the good people >here: > >1889 Jun 1st - William Whittle Clark born Queen Charlotte's Hospital, >Marylebone >1889 Jun qr - William Whittle Fowler born Marylebone >1889 Jun 6 - William Whittle Fowler bapt St Mark, Marylebone (b 1 Jun >1889, Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone son of Caroline Fowler) >1891 - Caroline Fowler (age 23, b Stepney) a domestic at 29 Barkstone >Mansions, Kensington >1891 - George E Clark (age 2 born St James's London) boarder with other >babies and infants >1892 - George Edward Clark married Caroline Fowler in West Ham area >1901 - William Clark living in Wanstead with parents George & Caroline >1907 Dec 3 - W W Clark joined RAF Technical rank QMS (T) >1911 - William Whittle Clark in census as Gunner RA, born West Ham >1911 - >1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead >Parish church, London, Essex > (Wanstead, Essex; postal address Wanstead, LONDON E??) This seems to be the safest starting point if it matches what was known when he was last seen by the family in 1933; the marriage registration should give the name and occupation of William's father which can then be compared with birth/baptism information. ATM my money is on William George W CLARK, whose birth registration ought to reveal what the "W" is. OTOH I wouldn't totally rule out the Marylebone birth if the person recorded in censuses as born in West Ham was another example of someone mistakenly believing they were born where they were brought up or of being asked the wrong question of "Where are you from?" rather than being asked for their place of birth. >1916 Mar 1 - W W Clark promoted to Master Mechanic in RAF >1918 - W W Clark in RAF Muster Roll >1918-1928 - William Whittle Clark in RAF personnel >1933 - William Whittle Clark left home in Biggin Hill > >A William G W Clark died in the Thurrock area of Essex in 1966 aged 77. >A William G W Clark married Ivy E Jordan in 1917 in Dover, Kent who may >be the William G W Clark who died in the Maidstone area in 1920 (aged 26) > >The computations for finding this man are endless. It reminds me a bit >of Minnie Driver's father, who kept his Air Force life secret, threw his >DFC away and led a double life after psychiatric troubles as a result of >his war experiences. Perhaps William Whittle Clark felt much the same. >Perhaps he even ran away to join the circus?! > > >Some people on Rootschat were discussing Whittles, who were travelling >showmen, predominantly in Essex, thought they got around a bit. There >also seems to have been a Whittles circus. > >http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314684.10.html

On 10/08/2013 17:48, Charles Ellson wrote: > On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 02:01:01 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: - >> 1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead >> Parish church, London, Essex >> > (Wanstead, Essex; postal address Wanstead, LONDON E??) No. It was Essex, is now London. Info from OP who has probably seen the original or got the info from his daughters. I don't think the marriage is in question. > This seems to be the safest starting point if it matches what was > known when he was last seen by the family in 1933; the marriage > registration should give the name and occupation of William's father > which can then be compared with birth/baptism information. ATM my > money is on William George W CLARK, whose birth registration ought > to reveal what the "W" is. OTOH I wouldn't totally rule out the > Marylebone birth if the person recorded in censuses as born in West > Ham was another example of someone mistakenly believing they were > born where they were brought up or of being asked the wrong question > of "Where are you from?" rather than being asked for their place of > birth. For what it's worth, I think Anne Chambers's discovery of the birth of William Whattle Fowler is the correct one. The right hospital on the right day. Unlikely there were two William Whittle somethings born on the same day in the same hospital.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 02:54:42 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >On 10/08/2013 17:48, Charles Ellson wrote: >> On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 02:01:01 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >- >>> 1915 July 14 - William W Clark married Susan E Horlock in Wanstead >>> Parish church, London, Essex >>> >> (Wanstead, Essex; postal address Wanstead, LONDON E??) > >No. It was Essex, is now London. > In 1915 it was as I described, the London Postal Area was a 19th century invention. Essex was the administrative county containing Wanstead, London was the postal county. Birth registrations in my collection for events in the London Postal Area going up to the 1960s append the local authority to addresses in the columns for "when and where..." and "occupation of father" but the postal sub-district name _or_ number (or sometimes both) to the informant's address thus often not mentioning London at all except to specify the county within which the registration district was located. Other parts of officialdom also did likewise with events at LPA addresses still being described well into the 20th century as e.g. Middlesex or Essex in PRFD indexes, again often with no mention at all of the postal area (i.e. "London"). It is also only in relatively recent years that registration districts have been well-matched to local authority areas in England and Wales. >Info from OP who has probably seen the >original or got the info from his daughters. I don't think the marriage >is in question. > > >> This seems to be the safest starting point if it matches what was >> known when he was last seen by the family in 1933; the marriage >> registration should give the name and occupation of William's father >> which can then be compared with birth/baptism information. ATM my >> money is on William George W CLARK, whose birth registration ought >> to reveal what the "W" is. OTOH I wouldn't totally rule out the >> Marylebone birth if the person recorded in censuses as born in West >> Ham was another example of someone mistakenly believing they were >> born where they were brought up or of being asked the wrong question >> of "Where are you from?" rather than being asked for their place of >> birth. > >For what it's worth, I think Anne Chambers's discovery of the birth of >William Whattle Fowler is the correct one. The right hospital on the >right day. Unlikely there were two William Whittle somethings born on >the same day in the same hospital.