On 12/01/15 14:53, Ian Goddard wrote: > **Churchyates is also used. Gate in Yorkshire dialect can refer to > "way" or street, e.g. "Tha're in t'gate" = "You are causing an > obstruction" and Westgate is the name of the street running past > Almondbury church. Having the "yate" variation excludes the possibility > that "Churchgate" means "Church Street". Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that you don't think Churchyates means Church Street because of the spelling? If so, I disagree. I grew up in a small village in the Yorkshire Moors -- admittedly some distance northeast of Almondbury -- and the older generation of locals sometimes used the word "gate" for a street. It was always pronounced "yat", rhyming with "cat", but with a "y" sound of "yes". The village of Chop Gate was the same: traditionally pronounced something like chupyat. Richard

On Monday, 12 January 2015 17:59:07 UTC, Richard Smith wrote: > On 12/01/15 14:53, Ian Goddard wrote: > > > **Churchyates is also used. Gate in Yorkshire dialect can refer to > > "way" or street, e.g. "Tha're in t'gate" = "You are causing an > > obstruction" and Westgate is the name of the street running past > > Almondbury church. Having the "yate" variation excludes the possibility > > that "Churchgate" means "Church Street". > > Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that you don't think > Churchyates means Church Street because of the spelling? If so, I > disagree. I grew up in a small village in the Yorkshire Moors -- > admittedly some distance northeast of Almondbury -- and the older > generation of locals sometimes used the word "gate" for a street. It > was always pronounced "yat", rhyming with "cat", but with a "y" sound > of "yes". The village of Chop Gate was the same: traditionally > pronounced something like chupyat. > > Richard Yes, that puzzled me too. My ancestors' old farm in Cumberland is called 'Streetgate', which I have always understood to mean 'straight road' (there was a Roman road running through the property) and I think I've seen it with a 'yeat' spelling as well as a 'gat'. Chris

On 12/01/2015 17:59, Richard Smith wrote: > On 12/01/15 14:53, Ian Goddard wrote: > >> **Churchyates is also used. Gate in Yorkshire dialect can refer to >> "way" or street, e.g. "Tha're in t'gate" = "You are causing an >> obstruction" and Westgate is the name of the street running past >> Almondbury church. Having the "yate" variation excludes the possibility >> that "Churchgate" means "Church Street". > > Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that you don't think > Churchyates means Church Street because of the spelling? If so, I > disagree. I grew up in a small village in the Yorkshire Moors -- > admittedly some distance northeast of Almondbury -- and the older > generation of locals sometimes used the word "gate" for a street. It > was always pronounced "yat", rhyming with "cat", but with a "y" sound > of "yes". The village of Chop Gate was the same: traditionally > pronounced something like chupyat. > Derived from the Viking word for a street. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 12/01/15 17:59, Richard Smith wrote: > On 12/01/15 14:53, Ian Goddard wrote: > >> **Churchyates is also used. Gate in Yorkshire dialect can refer to >> "way" or street, e.g. "Tha're in t'gate" = "You are causing an >> obstruction" and Westgate is the name of the street running past >> Almondbury church. Having the "yate" variation excludes the possibility >> that "Churchgate" means "Church Street". > > Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that you don't think > Churchyates means Church Street because of the spelling? If so, I > disagree. I grew up in a small village in the Yorkshire Moors -- > admittedly some distance northeast of Almondbury -- and the older > generation of locals sometimes used the word "gate" for a street. It > was always pronounced "yat", rhyming with "cat", but with a "y" sound > of "yes". The village of Chop Gate was the same: traditionally > pronounced something like chupyat. Hmm. I was relying largely on another source (I think it was Redmonds) but thinking about it I there's another local placename, Yateholme, admittedly problematic, in which Yate=Gate is a possible explanation. But certainly in this corner of GOC "gate" is the normal variation. However, it's not the only factor. It's in the plural each time, gates or yates. Also this is the only occasion in which this appellation is used in several hundred years of PR records - I'm not sure about MRs as only a fairly short run has been published. If the street had been Church Gate then there would surely have been others. And the street is Westgate, at least in modern parlance. Unfortunately no street names are given on the almost contemporary 1634 manorial map although the house next to the church gates is shown distinctly larger than its 6 neighbours. It's also bigger than Almondbury's prized Tudor remnant http://www.archaeology.wyjs.org.uk/TudorWeb/twy04.html across the road. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk